Does everyone find their soulmate AFTER they marry?

[jennie-jennie]

How long was your affair? For many people it was under 3 yuears and therefore the affair was broken off during the infatuation stage which makes it hard to get over.

 

Read information on Limerence. A stage of extreme infatuation that is fueled by obstacles and uncertainty. Scientist have looked at the brain in the infatuation stage and again after people have been married for 5 years and more. Parts that used to light up in the infatuation stage (where chemicals are flooding your brain like cocaine) do not light up anymore. after 5 years when you are shown a picture of your partner. But a more comfortable love takes over.

 

They had a segment on the today show last year. They actually had a few real couples that had been involved in the study come back years later and scan brain again on national tv. They were told this was completely normal. It did not mean the spouse was no longer in love with them. It meant they are now at a different more mature stage of love.

 

Brain scans have been performed on couples who claim to be still in love after 25 years and these have proved that the same areas in the brain are still active in these couples as in the early honeymoon years. So some people are blessed with the ability to stay in love. That has always been the case with me, whether my partner has been single or married, makes no difference. I don't just love my partner, I stay in love.

[jennie-jennie]

I don't think it always has to be that way. I guess it all depends on what you consider to be commitment, caring and love. It seems many affairs are self-serving...the AP usually has to stay within the confines of the affair. If I have a flat tire...my H is going to come and help me. I know that. If I am in the hospital, he will spend the night with me. I know this. I can count on him, whether it is a convenient time or not. From what I read here, not many APs have this.

 

To me, "in love" is the dopamine, honeymoon, affair-type feelings. The urgency, the passion, excitement etc. You can have this in a marriage, or an affair.

 

"Love" to me means action, not a feeling. To love my H does not mean he makes me feel good...it means I care for him, I do for him, I'm there for him. This can exsist in an affair, too. But it seems like there are always limits in an affair. And eventually these limits may feel constricting to someone who wants a total commitment.

 

I don't want limits on my love...those limits would make me feel uncared for.

 

The love you describe above (bolded) is altruistic love. I would not be satisfied with that love alone, never have been, for a partner. According to Francesco Alberoni, professor in sociology who has written many books on love, you love as a partner the person who makes you feel good. That is the difference between a partner and any other person you may love, he/she makes you feel good.

 

If you (general you) and/or your partner have lost that and now only feel altruistic love for each other, I feel truly sorry for you. That is probably the reason why you or your partner have started looking outside the marriage for romantic love.

[jennie-jennie]

Unfortunately I do believe that there are many who find a better match after they have married. There is truth in that had the timing been better much had played out differently.

[OWoman]

The reason many people are so "in love" with their affair partner is usually because they stay at stage 1 longer than normal. The relationship is never real. they never live with each other.never go through stress with each other. Do not spend time with each other's friends and family socially to see how they interact. So they create scenario's in their heads. They live a fantasy with the perfect person they created.

 

As a description of As, this is a huge generalisation. Several - many - As do feature those kinds of "everyday" interactions, with APs living together, doing chores together, going through stress together, spending time with each others' friends and family etc. Sometimes the MM is separated from the OW (but deemed "still M" on LS because of the absense of D papers ); other times the MM maintains two residences - a work week one where he lives with the OW, and a weekend one he returns to with the BW / kids; in yet other cases he shuttles between the two as his timetable allows, living in settled harmony in both places; there are several permutations.

[woinlove]

The love you describe above (bolded) is altruistic love. I would not be satisfied with that love alone, never have been, for a partner. According to Francesco Alberoni, professor in sociology who has written many books on love, you love as a partner the person who makes you feel good. That is the difference between a partner and any other person you may love, he/she makes you feel good.

 

If you (general you) and/or your partner have lost that and now only feel altruistic love for each other, I feel truly sorry for you. That is probably the reason why you or your partner have started looking outside the marriage for romantic love.

 

Why feel sorry because someone else values something differently from you?

 

I value what you call altruistic love most of all. It makes me feel extremely good, but it is more a feeling that comes from within me, mixed with feeling fortunate and grateful, to share it with someone I admire and respect. Sharing altruistic love with someone who shares my values has made me love myself more and made me feel more connected to humanity as a whole.

 

Looking back at all the times I have felt "in love", sometimes with people I respect and admire, and sometimes with people I later thought "what the hell was I thinking?", I've come to appreciate the stimulus for personal growth and discovery that being open to falling in love (appropriately or not) gives. I've also found that pushing myself into new territory, either physically or mentally, can serve much the same purpose. For me, falling in love, is all about me, me, me while altruistic love is about me, about the person, and even about all that is great and wonderful about life more generally.

[pureinheart]

I'm not saying you are wrong but IME..

 

My love for my AP was on a par with the love I feel for my kids. With my H not so nor ever was.

 

So questions:

 

Is it dopamine/endorphins with my kids? It seems to last well with them, why should I suppose on spurious science (where there is a lot of admission about the fact science doesn't understand love) that is wouldn't have with xAP? The break up certainly caused me huge grief. I had physical symptoms too. Read about grief, and it was the same. It was not about dopamine!

 

Is my love for my kids also fog?

 

I know my grief is ill-understood. And I know I have turned a corner - that of acceptance.

 

I never loved like that before. And I have something to compare it to - the way I feel about my kids. I imagine some people, even in As, also may feel that about their R and feel confused when they do not have that comparison.

 

I am saying this because I think it may be counter-productive for people grieving to think the object of grief - which is the R and the xAP - is mere dopamine/endorphins.

 

That's just not true, IME.

 

This is awesome, I totally relate and agree...to minimize the love is to minimize the possible healing needed should the R not work.

 

Like me for instance, maybe I did get used, maybe exDM didn't ever really love me, maybe he has not a clue what love is due to a tormented past...BUT what I did, what I felt and what I went through was very real and not all brain drug related.

 

My object of grief is a great loss, because I loved...

[woinlove]

Speaking of the love a parent has for his/her child, there is a great example of one kind of altruistic love. Loving your child is not about romantic "in love" feelings of personal wants and desires and sexual attraction. A parent loves their child whether that child is brilliant, has enormous physical and/or intellectual handicaps, or whatever. Part of this may stem from sharing genetic material, but the love a parent has for an adopted or step child, shows that a large part stems from the commitment the parent makes and the desire to love that child. Of all the children in the world, parents develop a very special love for their own particular children. It is a great lesson to us of how making that commitment can return to us a life-long love that is unconditional and does not waver.

[jennie-jennie]

As a description of As, this is a huge generalisation. Several - many - As do feature those kinds of "everyday" interactions, with APs living together, doing chores together, going through stress together, spending time with each others' friends and family etc. Sometimes the MM is separated from the OW (but deemed "still M" on LS because of the absense of D papers ); other times the MM maintains two residences - a work week one where he lives with the OW, and a weekend one he returns to with the BW / kids; in yet other cases he shuttles between the two as his timetable allows, living in settled harmony in both places; there are several permutations.

 

And even when you live apart, life doesn't stop, it just keeps on going. Having daily contact for hours makes it impossible to put a mask on, you share every day happenings all the time. The stress is there, the anxiety life hands to you is there, the worries, the problems, the illnesses, you help each other deal with everything in life.

 

Like this fall, we have had to deal with financial difficulties, alzheimer's, bathroom renovation. Life isn't easier for a couple in an extramarital relationship, and we support each other like any other couple does.

[jennie-jennie]

Speaking of the love a parent has for his/her child, there is a great example of one kind of altruistic love. Loving your child is not about romantic "in love" feelings of personal wants and desires and sexual attraction. A parent loves their child whether that child is brilliant, has enormous physical and/or intellectual handicaps, or whatever. Part of this may stem from sharing genetic material, but the love a parent has for an adopted or step child, shows that a large part stems from the commitment the parent makes and the desire to love that child. Of all the children in the world, parents develop a very special love for their own particular children. It is a great lesson to us of how making that commitment can return to us a life-long love that is unconditional and does not waver.

 

And the love for your child is a completely different love than the love you should hold for your partner.

[jennie-jennie]

This is awesome, I totally relate and agree...to minimize the love is to minimize the possible healing needed should the R not work.

 

Like me for instance, maybe I did get used, maybe exDM didn't ever really love me, maybe he has not a clue what love is due to a tormented past...BUT what I did, what I felt and what I went through was very real and not all brain drug related.

 

My object of grief is a great loss, because I loved...

 

This is an extremely important lesson to learn. Whether my love is true and genuine, does not depend on the actions and emotions of the other person.

[woinlove]

And the love for your child is a completely different love than the love you should hold for your partner.

 

Yes, I agree (replacing the word should with usually) and didn't really understand the point that was made about this being the same love as for an AP. However, it did make me think of what the love for our children can teach us more generally about love and commitment.

[Got it]

I really haven't felt any different with the progression of the EMR than other relationships. There is a honeymoon stage, feelings settle and intensify, there is a bit of a calming but a much deeper bond on dealing with life's struggles, rish and repeat.

 

It is just like any other relationship and all relationships have some sort of limitations, work schedules, family schedules, friends, etc. And some people do not like to be with their partner 24/7 so continue to have facets that are separate.

 

Most relationship tend to end in the first 3 years. It isn't just EMRs.

[xxoo]

Brain scans have been performed on couples who claim to be still in love after 25 years and these have proved that the same areas in the brain are still active in these couples as in the early honeymoon years. So some people are blessed with the ability to stay in love. That has always been the case with me, whether my partner has been single or married, makes no difference. I don't just love my partner, I stay in love.

 

I believe it, because I'm living it I'm still very much in love with my partner--20 years now.

 

But what confuses me, reading LS, is the reconciled couples. There we see couples where those feelings of "in love" faded (for one partner, at least), affair happened, and then "in love" was rediscovered with the spouse in the aftermath of the affair. Of course not all couples are going to be able to do that--but when it happens, it seems to show that "in love" takes a bit of work and tending. It makes me wonder how many people forgot that they once considered their spouse their soulmate.....and if they might still consider their spouse their soulmate if they'd had the relationship skills to maintain that love over the years.

[xxoo]

One more thought on spouses-formerly-considered-soulmates....

 

I'm sure that, in some cases, the affair destroys any chance of ever rediscovering that connection with the spouse. Just because a couple doesn't reconcile successfully after an affair doesn't mean that rediscovering their love wasn't a real possibility before one partner chose to have an affair.

[Quiet Storm]

If you (general you) and/or your partner have lost that and now only feel altruistic love for each other, I feel truly sorry for you. That is probably the reason why you or your partner have started looking outside the marriage for romantic love.

 

We haven't lost that. My H still makes me feel really, really good!

 

Look, I never said that it's not possible for affair love to be real. I just said it seems limited.

 

Often in affairs, it seems as if the altruistic, action-based type of love only happens when it is convenient. I see it as, how much could the married person really care for you if they are willing to put you in this position, and willing to keep you there indefinitely? To me, that is a selfish love, because they aren't really thinking about what is in their partner's best interest.

 

From what I read here, it seems they are concerned about getting their own needs met. They may meet many of your needs while on the journey...but if you have a need that's too much, and outside of the confines of your affair, then you are SOL!

 

But please do not feel sorry for me! I have been with H 20 years, and we enjoy both kinds of love together.

 

If you are content in your affair, then good for you. I am not doubting your happiness. As long as you understand that the odds are against you, and that your bliss may lead to heartache. It's just hard for me to get your contentedness, because I would want more for myself. But I am not you!

 

And for me, the love I have for my children is totally different than the love I have for my H. The love for my kids is nurturing, guiding, unconditional. The love for my H is a romantic, accepting, connecting kind of love. Not the same at all, and I am very okay with that.

[Snowflower]

I believe it, because I'm living it I'm still very much in love with my partner--20 years now.

 

But what confuses me, reading LS, is the reconciled couples. There we see couples where those feelings of "in love" faded (for one partner, at least), affair happened, and then "in love" was rediscovered with the spouse in the aftermath of the affair. Of course not all couples are going to be able to do that--but when it happens, it seems to show that "in love" takes a bit of work and tending. It makes me wonder how many people forgot that they once considered their spouse their soulmate.....and if they might still consider their spouse their soulmate if they'd had the relationship skills to maintain that love over the years.

 

Okay, I am probably in one of those reconciled relationships that I think you are describing. I am going to assume that no snarkiness was intended by your question... and take a stab at it!

 

I never gave the "soulmates" idea a lot of thought before my husband's affair. It sounded too over-the-top/Harlequin romance/chic-flick drama for me! I loved my husband and I know he loved me and pre-affair that was enough for me and I thought, for him.

 

Yesterday I came across an anniversary card from my H for our 15th anniversary. He had written a long note in the card about how much he loved me and all his hopes and dreams for our future together. This was written by him over 3 years before his affair. It was bittersweet to read but it showed me that his love was there at that time and all the intervening time up to today.

 

After his A, each of us had to do some serious reassessment about ourselves and our marriage. We realized that maintaining a long-term relationship can't happen by just hoping that the "inertia" of all those years together or the strong foundation that was developed, etc. will safeguard it.

 

We then realized that yes, we were soulmates. Some people will roll their eyes at that remark because of his affair and I can understand their disbelief. I would have likely held that disbelief pre-affair as well. All I can say is that the crisis woke both of us up to what was about to be lost.

 

So to answer your question, a crisis is sometimes what is needed to discover what is real and true and what is not.

 

One more thought on spouses-formerly-considered-soulmates....

 

I'm sure that, in some cases, the affair destroys any chance of ever rediscovering that connection with the spouse. Just because a couple doesn't reconcile successfully after an affair doesn't mean that rediscovering their love wasn't a real possibility before one partner chose to have an affair.

 

Yep, but like I said, the affair can be the wake up call for some couples who do reconcile successfully.

[wheelwright]

Speaking of the love a parent has for his/her child, there is a great example of one kind of altruistic love. Loving your child is not about romantic "in love" feelings of personal wants and desires and sexual attraction. A parent loves their child whether that child is brilliant, has enormous physical and/or intellectual handicaps, or whatever. Part of this may stem from sharing genetic material, but the love a parent has for an adopted or step child, shows that a large part stems from the commitment the parent makes and the desire to love that child. Of all the children in the world, parents develop a very special love for their own particular children. It is a great lesson to us of how making that commitment can return to us a life-long love that is unconditional and does not waver.

 

I would agree that a lifelong commitment adds a huge element to any R - whether it involves love of the kind we are discussing, or simply caring and depth of understanding such as between friends.

 

In reading Francesco Alberoni (you can Google him on the subject of love) I was persuaded that the feeling we have for our children when it is this blissful togetherness and feeling of gift, is the same one we have for a true love match partner.

 

It's how I felt. I noticed it when I cuddled my son on the sofa, or looked into my daughter's eyes while we danced. It is a timeless blissful feeling unlike any other. It is unmistakable. I noticed it was the same feeling.

 

When my kids were babies, these feelings were salient at every moment. And intense. The intensity wears off, and we enjoy the bliss of getting to know each other. But in those timeless moments where we do not seek to do anything except be with another in this state of grace we experience an unconditional love.

 

We just marvel at the quality of that time. I believe that is the same for all love, regardless of roles. It has an unselfconscious and at-one-with-the universe quality. M Rs often have this. Sometimes in a M it dies. Sometimes it can be recovered.

 

I am not promoting As. Just saying sometimes, and to the great grief of many people, it can happen like that too.

[Mimolicious]

I love all of these assumptions on what happens, or doesn't happen in affairs, by people who have never been in one.

 

I can say that we could show love, he did fix tires, plumbing, and pet and grandma sitting for me during the EMR. Um, he helped clean the house, take me to the doctor's, oh we celebrated holidays together and did birthdays, trips, etc.

 

I do agree the honeymoon stage wears off but so it did with my husband. I can say I am still more in love with my dMM than I have been ever in my life. We have lived together, taken care of each other when sick, worried over bills, kids, futures, laughed, shared memories, traditions, etc. Feels pretty much like the other significant relationship in my prior life.

 

But I guess this is still the fantasy. If so, I hope to never wake up.

 

Was so typical about your dMM? If you lived together, took care of grandma etc... how is that, him having a W and Kids and you on the side?

[xxoo]

Okay, I am probably in one of those reconciled relationships that I think you are describing. I am going to assume that no snarkiness was intended by your question... and take a stab at it!.

 

No snark intended! Confuse probably wasn't the best word choice. I meant it in context of finding a soulmate after marriage--when I'm pretty sure most people thought their spouse was a great match (soulmate?) when they married--it makes me wonder about the big picture realities, and if the AP is actually a better match than the spouse. Mind warp time: imagine the possibility that the WS had married the AP way back when, and is now cheating with their "soulmate"--the current spouse!

 

I don't personally hold stock in soulmates, but that is the context of the thread...

[Snowflower]

No snark intended! Confuse probably wasn't the best word choice. I meant it in context of finding a soulmate after marriage--when I'm pretty sure most people thought their spouse was a great match (soulmate?) when they married--it makes me wonder about the big picture realities, and if the AP is actually a better match than the spouse. Mind warp time: imagine the possibility that the WS had married the AP way back when, and is now cheating with their "soulmate"--the current spouse!

 

 

Re: the bolded: I think this happens probably more than anyone knows. It could be a case of reconnecting with "the one who got away."

 

IMO, I think there are any number of "soulmates" for any one of us. I don't mean to denigrate the concept. It's just that there are a lot of people on this planet and I am positive that there are some very good potential matches for any one of us...besides the person we have married.

 

As a fBW, I might hold an unusual perspective but I can actually see how the xOW might have been a perfect match for my H. I don't know her at all but when I asked the inevitable questions of him after we reconciled: what was it about her, why her? His answers of sharing a lot in common with her made sense to me. The two of them certainly seemed to have a lot of the same interests, common backgrounds, goals, etc. I could see how it might have worked for them in a different life. This didn't and still doesn't bother me, for some weird reason.

[jlola]

Brain scans have been performed on couples who claim to be still in love after 25 years and these have proved that the same areas in the brain are still active in these couples as in the early honeymoon years. So some people are blessed with the ability to stay in love. That has always been the case with me, whether my partner has been single or married, makes no difference. I don't just love my partner, I stay in love.

 

 

Have you lived with a partner for at leastn 10 years? lived with day to day? How many people have you stayed in love with? What were the lengths of Time? How old are you? Isn't it less than 10% of people they have found to be thsat way?

 

If so your chances of having found another person who has the ability to stay in love is mighty slim. Really what are the chances of those 10% meeting each other?

[jlola]

As a description of As, this is a huge generalisation. Several - many - As do feature those kinds of "everyday" interactions, with APs living together, doing chores together, going through stress together, spending time with each others' friends and family etc. Sometimes the MM is separated from the OW (but deemed "still M" on LS because of the absense of D papers ); other times the MM maintains two residences - a work week one where he lives with the OW, and a weekend one he returns to with the BW / kids; in yet other cases he shuttles between the two as his timetable allows, living in settled harmony in both places; there are several permutations.

 

 

If MM/MW spouse is ok with the arrangement and married person bringing his OP around frends and family and living with misstress part-time that is fine. A relationship like that where everyone is ok with it is none of anyone's biz.

 

But if married man is doing this behind spouse's back, then there is a personality flaw. The lies,double life. How can anyone live like that? How can anyone disrespect another like that?His kids? Does anyone think that is a good person?

 

get a divorce if that is the case. This is the USA. You do not have to stay with your spouse forever. So if family,friends all accept OP. If person can afford 2 residents, what excatly is the reason for him not divorcing? This is about a person who feels entitled and 2 other people enabling and sharing.Why would the mistress accept? Really. Are there so few guys in the area? There must be some guy more worthy than a liar,manipulator,cake-eater.

 

My father was one of those selfish people. and even as a teen my sisters and I would tell her to leave. It was a humiliating experience for us kids too. I used to feel shame that everyone knew what my father was doing. It was not my shame to take. But I took it. My oldest sister has been affected also. She has cheated on every single one of her 4 husbands. Ironically,she too always finds her soul-mate while married. Never happy with the one she has once she is married to them.But before marriage getting the guy to the alter becomes her obsession.

 

I guess some folks lke that sort of arragement where they do not have to with with someone full-time so it never gets dull. Both BS and OP can compete with each other. don't know how healthy that is.

[OhGeesh]

Have you lived with a partner for at leastn 10 years? lived with day to day? How many people have you stayed in love with? What were the lengths of Time? How old are you? Isn't it less than 10% of people they have found to be thsat way?

 

If so your chances of having found another person who has the ability to stay in love is mighty slim. Really what are the chances of those 10% meeting each other?

 

Still very much in love 3 kids married for 13yrs+ and living together for 16yrs and together for 19 years off and on. She is my everything sexy, hot, smart, fun, loving, appreciative, our sex life is great still 2-3x a week even with work, kids, and drama.

 

Talk, communicate, share dreams, share wants, sacrifice, bend don't break, put the other before yourself, did I say talk, be honest, love life, enjoy the gift that it is and marriage can stay fresh for a very very long time!!

[OWoman]

get a divorce if that is the case. This is the USA. You do not have to stay with your spouse forever.

 

You may be in the US. Some of those posters were / are. Many are not.

[jennie-jennie]

Have you lived with a partner for at leastn 10 years? lived with day to day? How many people have you stayed in love with? What were the lengths of Time? How old are you? Isn't it less than 10% of people they have found to be thsat way?

 

If so your chances of having found another person who has the ability to stay in love is mighty slim. Really what are the chances of those 10% meeting each other?

 

I am 51 and have had three long term relationships. The first lasted from age 17-21, and yes we lived together. The second was with the father of my three children, my age was 22-48. We lived together for 14 years of this time.

 

My present relationship with my MM started parallel to my prior relationship, so it was from age 46. It was not hidden to my then SO. The last three years I have been exclusive with my MM.

 

I stayed in love with all three SOs throughout the relationships.

 

I guess I am very lucky, because my MM and I are still very much in love with each other after five years. Our relationship is one of rekindled love. We fell deeply in love already at the age of 15, but circumstances parted us.

Edited December 11, 2010 by jennie-jennie