Update and Chat

[Too Much]

Wanted to share an update on my situation. W and I finally had a "talk" a couploe of weeks ago. Didn't go well. It was clear from the conversation she did not have any remorse for her EA. She admits the diary entries reflected her feelings at the time. We ended on a bad note (me walking away telling her she'd be out of the house soon because I didn't sense there was any remorse.) Went to see a lawyer and was preparing to file for divorce, but haveing tough time getting off the fence.

 

Fast forward to today and MIL (who is living with us for the time being) asks me to "chat". She asks where I am in my thought process. I tell her I am still unsure, that I still love my W but trust has become an issue. Made it clear W has shown no remorse for what she has done. MIL says W is unhappy with our lifestyle (I come home too late from work every nite due to work) and no longer wants to work together in our business. She wants a job. I say W is blaming her unhappiness on the marriage, says we are incompatible to justify her actions, and that I am having a hard time trusting her. I point out it was W who first indicated she wanted a divorce. I say I don't believe in divorce EXCEPT in cases where there has been infidelity or abuse. Here, W had an EA, which justifies me divorcing her because I am having a hard time trusting her again. I don't see how W can justify a divorce. MIL says W has lost herself because she is isolated (working in the business), has no family close by (MIL is here temporarily due to our problems) and is lonely because I miss so many family dinners due to work. MIL wants us to talk again.

 

I am having a hard time trusting W after the EA and worry that she may "cheat" again. MIL says W fluctates back and forth with her feelings of wanting a divorce. W has also visited a divorce attorney last week and has been looing at places to rent. I am so confused and afraid to be hurt again. Don't know what to do and worry that another conversation with W would just end up in another fight and blam game. Still love her, but don't trust her anymore, expecially since she is not remorseful in any way.

[controlledchaos]

i just read one of your threads from oct. and wanted to comment here.

 

not knowing both sides of the story i can only give my impression.

 

your marriage was not good. you state that and via her journal entries you know she felt things were not good either. going 4 months NC is no small matter either. you stated she felt you were controlling and emotionally and verbally abusive. i was in a marriage for 10 yrs ( relationship for 15) and for the majority of it, it was not good. there would be brief periods where it would be ok. but in those 10 yrs there were very, very few " good" periods.

 

last year it was painfully pointed out to me how messed up my marriage really was. i mean i knew it was a mess and what not, but i thought it was "normal." we had years of these kinds of talks you two have. nothing ever really being resolved. until last year. when i finally approached him and asked him, to which he replied for me to take the kids and leave.

 

that was the plan. he never once told me he loved me after that. he asked me what i would say to a marriage counselor if i were to see one and my response was " i cannot stay in a marriage like this." i told him, i won't stay in a marriage like this. i WOULD stay married to him if things changed, but he didn't want that. he wanted things to stay the same. that's the part i couldn't do.

 

maybe that's where your wife is too. things need to change, but she cannot stay if they don't. i had completely lost myself. i had no idea who i was anymore. i gave up my career for him and our kids. i gave up hobbies because he didn't like them. i didn't make friends wiht people because he didn't find them worthy. i put myself down because he did. the list was so long. i have been in with a counselor and a group for several months now. i have read many books too.

 

my answer to my H would still be, I cannot be in this marriage. in this marriage there is nothing that is salvageable. i can't look back and see what is worth saving. i've asked him the same question and he can never come up with an answer. yet, he'll ask me if this has to end in divorce. no, it doesn't. but, it can't stay like it was either. there is no way. for us to work out, things HAVE to change, but that's the part that takes two people.

 

maybe, for you two something needs to change and it's not the interaction with this guy from her past, nor the journal entries. maybe it's the connection between you two. maybe she needs more love? i don't know. in my case, a little respect would've gone a long way. in my case, just even simple validation would've meant the world to me. and in my case, being told " yes, i love you and yes, i want to be married to you" would've been the most beautiful words i had ever heard....

 

just something to think about ....

 

good luck!

[imagine]

Hi Too Much,

 

I quickly read your last post. Try to get 15 hour per week quality time. More now as you need to regain your relationship.

 

Find out what her emotional needs are and meet them -this is a husbands job.

 

Check out the marriage builders site for details to improve your marriage.

[carhill]

My advice:

 

Get some MC. Within it, resolve the EA and clarify your marital issues.

 

Stop triangulating with MIL. In fact, get her out of the house ASAP.

 

Set a timeline for progress. At that point, if you don't feel sufficiently recovered from her EA, file for divorce. You can interview a few lawyers now, to lay some groundwork for the legal aspects. You don't have to act on that information.

 

Good luck

[trippi1432]

Wanted to share an update on my situation. W and I finally had a "talk" a couploe of weeks ago. Didn't go well. It was clear from the conversation she did not have any remorse for her EA. She admits the diary entries reflected her feelings at the time. We ended on a bad note (me walking away telling her she'd be out of the house soon because I didn't sense there was any remorse.) Went to see a lawyer and was preparing to file for divorce, but haveing tough time getting off the fence.

 

Fast forward to today and MIL (who is living with us for the time being) asks me to "chat". She asks where I am in my thought process. I tell her I am still unsure, that I still love my W but trust has become an issue. Made it clear W has shown no remorse for what she has done. MIL says W is unhappy with our lifestyle (I come home too late from work every nite due to work) and no longer wants to work together in our business. She wants a job. I say W is blaming her unhappiness on the marriage, says we are incompatible to justify her actions, and that I am having a hard time trusting her. I point out it was W who first indicated she wanted a divorce. I say I don't believe in divorce EXCEPT in cases where there has been infidelity or abuse. Here, W had an EA, which justifies me divorcing her because I am having a hard time trusting her again. I don't see how W can justify a divorce. MIL says W has lost herself because she is isolated (working in the business), has no family close by (MIL is here temporarily due to our problems) and is lonely because I miss so many family dinners due to work. MIL wants us to talk again.

 

I am having a hard time trusting W after the EA and worry that she may "cheat" again. MIL says W fluctates back and forth with her feelings of wanting a divorce. W has also visited a divorce attorney last week and has been looing at places to rent. I am so confused and afraid to be hurt again. Don't know what to do and worry that another conversation with W would just end up in another fight and blam game. Still love her, but don't trust her anymore, expecially since she is not remorseful in any way.

 

Hi TooMuch - sorry to hear that you are still going through all of this, but I have to say that she probably doesn't feel remorse because her loneliness drove her to have those feelings but the only thing you are both talking about is your lack of trust and her wanting a divorce. My opinion is that she is using divorce as a stand to wake you up to these facts. Right now, you are just pushing each others buttons instead of getting down to the real issues and working on them.

 

I know you state that you have lost trust in her...when a man or a woman moves to an EA and not a PA, they are emotionally starved for something they are not getting in the marriage. That can be so easily solved by talking to each other about what's missing rather than giving ultimatums or threatening divorce. I really think that your MIL is trying to give you the insight that your wife still loves you, if she didn't she wouldn't be on the fence about the divorce.

 

Instead of talking about divorce and the EA and your trust issues, why not talk about what you both could change in the marriage that would make her happy and you feel secure? After all, there must have been a time when you both felt that....if you both keep harping on the negative issues of a divorce and distrust, you are only building a taller wall to not working through anything.

[Too Much]

Thanks, Trippi, always could count on you for good advice. However, I don't know HOW to have a conversation that allows each of us to open up on the issues and solutions. Everytime we try tot alk, it becomes a blame session that ultimately ends in disagreement and frustration. How can I approach her and begin the conversation? Would it be better to allow MIL to mediate?

[Enema]

MIL seems to be a bit biased.

 

It's understandable, she's always going to assume it's not her daughters fault.

 

I agree with Carhill, she should be out of the house. If it were me, I'd go straight for the divorce, life is too short to spend fixing problems instead of having fun.

[Too Much]

MIL seems to be a bit biased.

 

It's understandable, she's always going to assume it's not her daughters fault.

 

I agree with Carhill, she should be out of the house. If it were me, I'd go straight for the divorce, life is too short to spend fixing problems instead of having fun.

 

Divorce is difficult because we have two young children. Their lives will be forever affected. The law here does prohibits me from getting MIL out of the house if W wants her there.

[controlledchaos]

there's a great book called "fighting for your marriage." basically it's a tool to learn how to resolve issues peacefully and respectfully. when you both respect the feelings of the other things are easier to move forward. if there is no respect that is harder. if there is contempt or a lack of validation, it will continue to be hard to move things forward.

 

buy the book and give it a read. maybe your wife can read it too. it gives you steps you can take and tools you can use. "boundaries in marriage" is another useful book as well. but again, the respect and willingness to validate has to be there for these things to work.

 

you can meet with a third party that can be used as a facilitator/ mediator. someone that can keep you from escalation and on track. i wouldn't go with a family member though. i'd find someone neutral, and preferably with training.

Edited December 14, 2010 by controlledchaos

[What_Next]

If she had a EA (are you SURE it was only a EA???) and there is no remorse, the answer is right there in front of you.

 

MIL or not, who cares what she thinks or adds to the situation.

 

If there are children involved and she has no remorse, then watch out when she does cheat again and oh how she will.

 

Protect your assets, protect yourself.

[trippi1432]

Too Much - Imagine gives some very good advice above. Actually, I thought it looked pretty familiar on the part of giving your wife 15 hours of quality time each week. Not sure if you are surfing for the advice that has been given, but you might find it here.

 

As for the MIL being a mediator...I wouldn't advise it. She has given you some insight though, and that speaks volumes. To be honest with you Too Much, I used to work 10 to 15 hours a day at a stretch. Dinner was picked up on the way home and was typically running to 3 different drive-thru's to get it....everyone wanted something different and well, I always wanted to please everybody else. I stopped doing the things I enjoyed....stopped cooking altogether because no one was happy and my exH was the biggest complainer of them all. If he didn't like something I cooked and made a comment, our son was instantly against it too. Coming home was typically met with screaming and yelling, hatefulness and anger...hence the working so much...it just made it much easier to come home when everyone was tired and ready for bed.

 

I couldn't talk to him either Too Much, talking just ended up in arguments with both of us unhappy. We would try sometimes, make agreements to spend more time together....do things together, but those things usually would wind up thrown to the wind...sometimes by me, sometimes by him...always out of frustration because we couldn't communicate. In the end, he gave up and moved on with someone else because his emotional needs weren't being met...and honestly, I gave up as well as my emotional needs had never been met....is that what you want to do? Give up?

[BellaBellaBella]

I would do the his needs/her needs book and do the emotional needs test, for a start.

 

I also did the love language quizz online and that helped us somewhat.

[Too Much]

Too Much - Imagine gives some very good advice above. Actually, I thought it looked pretty familiar on the part of giving your wife 15 hours of quality time each week. Not sure if you are surfing for the advice that has been given, but you might find it here.

 

As for the MIL being a mediator...I wouldn't advise it. She has given you some insight though, and that speaks volumes. To be honest with you Too Much, I used to work 10 to 15 hours a day at a stretch. Dinner was picked up on the way home and was typically running to 3 different drive-thru's to get it....everyone wanted something different and well, I always wanted to please everybody else. I stopped doing the things I enjoyed....stopped cooking altogether because no one was happy and my exH was the biggest complainer of them all. If he didn't like something I cooked and made a comment, our son was instantly against it too. Coming home was typically met with screaming and yelling, hatefulness and anger...hence the working so much...it just made it much easier to come home when everyone was tired and ready for bed.

 

I couldn't talk to him either Too Much, talking just ended up in arguments with both of us unhappy. We would try sometimes, make agreements to spend more time together....do things together, but those things usually would wind up thrown to the wind...sometimes by me, sometimes by him...always out of frustration because we couldn't communicate. In the end, he gave up and moved on with someone else because his emotional needs weren't being met...and honestly, I gave up as well as my emotional needs had never been met....is that what you want to do? Give up?

 

There are times I feel like it is hopeless and I do want to give up. then I think of the kids, the family and it all makes me want to save what I have already invested so heavily in. I just want to be sure that if divorce is the answer, it is the very last (and not first) resort. So, I lean on trying to communicate first. However, something inside tells me the trust issues and damage that has resulted from several months of not talking and living separately may have damaged the marriage beyond repair. Just so unclear as to when enough is enough.

[trippi1432]

Too Much...so read what has been posted here, do some research on Marriage Builders..advice that has been offered here...give her a couple of hours of your attention each night, I don't mean communicating about how she feels about divorce, but how she really is....and even tell her how you are feeling because a woman does want to know that.

 

An inherent difference between men and women....men want to fix things, women feel things..the emotional connection runs deep. When it's not met, that's when EA's happen....she needs you to feel...not to fix. Just my opinion and I could be wrong, but I do feel that your situation could be turned around.

 

Did she push the boundaries of your trust...that is up to you only to judge.