If its an affair why think its more?

[2sure]

He used my circumstances to his advantage. Yes it's an extreme example but it is true of how someone can use your vulnerabilities and insecurities against you. Sometimes I hate him most for that!

 

Yours is a perfect example not an extreme one. People, especially women can be vulnerable in a million different ways. In my personal opinion being a single mother under most circumstances is a vulnerable position. Emotionally, maybe financially, possibly simply relationship wise vulnerable as to time and responsibility constraints.

 

My own hindsight and my view of other affairs shows me that strong, independent women do not involve themselves with unavailable men. Vulnerability is a key ingredient for an affair.

[redcurls]

Volnerablility has nothing to do with independence. It has everything to do with insecurity, though.

[2sure]

Yep, thats what I said.

 

Strong , Independent, Not Vulnerable, Secure women do not bother with men who are unavailable or inconvenient. They dont settle.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Xmm knew all this..........and he used those very things against me, in that it allowed him to more easily lie to me, made him less accountable, he knew it made me insecure in believing in a long term relationship. He would pepper in compliments of me and how he thought more of me because I was taking care of her at home so of course I took that as acceptance.

He used my circumstances to his advantage. Yes it's an extreme example but it is true of how someone can use your vulnerabilities and insecurities against you. Sometimes I hate him most for that!

 

BB, I'd say it also meant that he had less "competition" than he might have had with someone who had the freedom to come and go.

 

I think especially in the case of serial cheaters, that many MM are experts at using vulnerabilities to choose the perfect person.

[OWoman]

Strong , Independent, Not Vulnerable, Secure women do not bother with men who are unavailable or inconvenient. They dont settle.

 

Wow - talk about projection!!

 

You may have been weak, dependent, vulnerable and/or insecure during your As. I certainly wasn't. Nor did I "settle". There's a big difference between accepting something because you can't get anything better, and choosing something from a position of information and strength because it suits your requirements, and those who can't (or choose not to) see that are in denial for reasons of their own...

[jthorne]

Wow - talk about projection!!

 

You may have been weak, dependent, vulnerable and/or insecure during your As. I certainly wasn't. Nor did I "settle". There's a big difference between accepting something because you can't get anything better, and choosing something from a position of information and strength because it suits your requirements, and those who can't (or choose not to) see that are in denial for reasons of their own...

Could you kindly direct me to the quote where 2sure said she was weak?

[AngeletteX]

Could you kindly direct me to the quote where 2sure said she was weak?

2sure did not literally say she was weak. She said this:

My own hindsight and my view of other affairs shows me that strong, independent women do not involve themselves with unavailable men. Vulnerability is a key ingredient for an affair.

And this:

Yep, thats what I said.

Strong , Independent, Not Vulnerable, Secure women do not bother with men who are unavailable or inconvenient. They dont settle.

The INVERSE of the above quote is “weak, dependent, vulnerable, insecure women settle”.

And the implication: This is what women in A’s do.

 

Perhaps I am reading it incorrectly and 2sure didn't mean to imply that...but to me, that's what it sounded like.

 

I think Owoman was pointing out that not all people involved in A’s are “settling”.

For some it’s about a Choice they have made in their life.

And for her (Owoman) it worked out beautifully.

[2sure]

I'll tell you the truth about me as I know it.

 

When I was involved in an affair - I was single. Failed relationships behind me, busy single mom, didnt feel at the time that I even wanted or could have a regular relationship. I also was sick of dating and didnt want to do that. But I did want a steady, regular , affectionate relationship. I wanted a guy around part time. So, thats the logic that led me to be open to an affair with a MM. I actually thought, at the time, that it was a pragmatic decision and that I was empowered and freed by getting what I wanted without the stuff I didnt.

 

And for some people, I cant argue - the above works.

 

Thing is, my logic was twisted. After some years I realized that it wasnt that I didnt want a real relationship - I did, but I didnt feel I had the skills either to have one or to keep one or to pick the right one. It became clear to me that the affairs simply distracted me and covered the hole that was in my life. I think this is the case for many people - covering up the hole with something nice and fun - thing is, its still there. Thats why some people dont leave their marriages for an affair and why some affair partners want to end it but keep going back. The affair covers up, but does not fill a hole.

 

There are one or two OW on here who I truly believe are satisfied with their status. But the others, especially thise that defend without provocation ...I'm sincere when I say my ONLY concern is that if they are vulnerable, and I think they are - dont be afraid to work on that.

[2sure]

And if a person is happy as OW...then they truly do not want more of it than that.

 

If someone ultimately end up marrying the guy...then they were not satisfied simply being OW - they wanted more and got it. And thats great - but it is certainly no position from which to expound on the wonderfulness of being OW. Being OW and happy with the circumstances means you arent waiting.

[BB07]

BB, I'd say it also meant that he had less "competition" than he might have had with someone who had the freedom to come and go.

 

I think especially in the case of serial cheaters, that many MM are experts at using vulnerabilities to choose the perfect person.

 

Good points, yes my life limits the out and about time and yes if they are serial cheaters they are very good at who and why they pick who they pick. I guess I had pick me on my forehead or maybe it was on my backside. who knows. lol

[fooled once]

Yep, thats what I said.

 

Strong , Independent, Not Vulnerable, Secure women do not bother with men who are unavailable or inconvenient. They dont settle.

 

agree

 

BB, I'd say it also meant that he had less "competition" than he might have had with someone who had the freedom to come and go.

 

I think especially in the case of serial cheaters, that many MM are experts at using vulnerabilities to choose the perfect person.

 

Good points!

 

And if a person is happy as OW...then they truly do not want more of it than that.

 

If someone ultimately end up marrying the guy...then they were not satisfied simply being OW - they wanted more and got it. And thats great - but it is certainly no position from which to expound on the wonderfulness of being OW. Being OW and happy with the circumstances means you arent waiting.

 

Yep.

 

I do not see anywhere in 2sure's posts that she said EVERY or ALL. She was speaking HER view, which is what we all do. Instead of picking apart people's replies, how about accept a post as that person's view. Man, the defensiveness is alive and well.

[OWoman]

And if a person is happy as OW...then they truly do not want more of it than that.

 

Agree. And for decades, that described me. When MMs left their BWs for me, they were summarily dumped. It wasn't what I wanted.

 

If someone ultimately end up marrying the guy...then they were not satisfied simply being OW - they wanted more and got it.

 

That sounds so either / or. Which isn't the case IRL. In my own situation, I was perfectly happy as an OW for decades. And then, at some point during my last A, something changed - and, at that point, I wanted something different. That doesn't negate that previously, I had been perfectly happy as the OW, in all of my previous As. It just meant that as a human being, I was subject to change, as most of us are.

 

And thats great - but it is certainly no position from which to expound on the wonderfulness of being OW.

 

I don't see why not. It worked perfectly for me for a good part of my life. There are many other OWs for whom it also works perfectly. I can't honestly deny that that's the case - I lived it, and for me to pretend, simply because I ended up M after many happy As, that As are bad or unhealthy or a sign of weakness or vulnerability, would be sheer hypocrisy on my part. I have no shame in having been an OW, and if anyone asks, I will tell them how wonderful it was for me. It may not work for everyone, but for me it certainly did.

 

And not because I landed up M.

 

Being OW and happy with the circumstances means you arent waiting.

 

Agreed.

[Ellin]

I'll tell you the truth about me as I know it.

 

When I was involved in an affair - I was single. Failed relationships behind me, busy single mom, didnt feel at the time that I even wanted or could have a regular relationship. I also was sick of dating and didnt want to do that. But I did want a steady, regular , affectionate relationship. I wanted a guy around part time. So, thats the logic that led me to be open to an affair with a MM. I actually thought, at the time, that it was a pragmatic decision and that I was empowered and freed by getting what I wanted without the stuff I didnt.

 

And for some people, I cant argue - the above works.

 

Thing is, my logic was twisted. After some years I realized that it wasnt that I didnt want a real relationship - I did, but I didnt feel I had the skills either to have one or to keep one or to pick the right one. It became clear to me that the affairs simply distracted me and covered the hole that was in my life. I think this is the case for many people - covering up the hole with something nice and fun - thing is, its still there. Thats why some people dont leave their marriages for an affair and why some affair partners want to end it but keep going back. The affair covers up, but does not fill a hole.

 

There are one or two OW on here who I truly believe are satisfied with their status. But the others, especially thise that defend without provocation ...I'm sincere when I say my ONLY concern is that if they are vulnerable, and I think they are - dont be afraid to work on that.

 

So now, in hindsight, what would you have done differently?

 

What would you tell a vulnerable woman, who is struggling as a busy, financially insecure, depressed, tired single mother, in deep need of love and affection? One that is getting this love and affection from a MM?

 

Would you tell her to go NC knowing that it might be so painful for her that she would likely fail at it eventually? And find a good, available, caring, etc etc single guy? Knowing that in her position it would be very difficult, if not impossible for a number of years, to find such a man who would be willing to have that "perfect" R with her and take on all her baggage?

[pureinheart]

Wow - talk about projection!!

 

You may have been weak, dependent, vulnerable and/or insecure during your As. I certainly wasn't. Nor did I "settle". There's a big difference between accepting something because you can't get anything better, and choosing something from a position of information and strength because it suits your requirements, and those who can't (or choose not to) see that are in denial for reasons of their own...

 

I didn't settle, it was my choice at that time. Even being in a traumatised state, due to other events, I was still very functional. In fact that R gave me the strength to do things that I would not have been able to do on my own. It was when I realised my feelings for him were growing stronger and out of proportion for the situation, I began to not like our positions...so I changed mine.

 

I am still trying to figure many things out about what went on with me and him...some days I am objective and others not so objective and very angry.

 

One thing I thought to be interesting, in councelling yesterday I remembered one very attractive point about exDM. I got hit on a lot at work, and due to him being around me all of the time, the constant guard that I always had to keep up, I didn't have to deal with anymore. He made things easy for me in many ways.

[Ellin]

One that needs to stay the heck away from a man with a WIFE!

 

Knowing that it would be difficult, but if the woman possessed as shred of self esteem and pride, a bright single man might see all of the wonderful things a woman had to offer.

 

See, I fixed it for you honey. Problem solved.

2sure was talking about OW's vulnerability in a R with a MM in terms of her own well-being and this is what brought this question to my mind.

 

I didn't ask for anyone to butt in with judgement, moral lecturing and wishful thinking passed as reality.

 

Honey.

[donnamaybe]

2sure was talking about OW's vulnerability in a R with a MM in terms of her own well-being and this is what brought this question to my mind.

 

I didn't ask for anyone to butt in with judgement, moral lecturing and wishful thinking passed as reality.

 

Honey.

She was also talking about what might drive a person to engage in an A, so discussing the different possibilities that could await a person in her circumstance is quite valid.

 

And why does it have to be "wishful thinking?" Are you implying that a woman in those circumstances isn't deserving of love from an uncommitted man?

[White Flower]

What i dont get - why do some women on here think 'he wants me as a mistress therefore one day I mite be his wife'.

I apologize for not reading the entire thread but I did want to answer your question.

 

When my A started I just wanted an A, nothing more, nothing less. Then I changed.

 

We all change, men and women. It is the human condition to change and grow and sometimes we grow to want more. Simple really.

[Fieldsofgold]

So now, in hindsight, what would you have done differently?

 

What would you tell a vulnerable woman, who is struggling as a busy, financially insecure, depressed, tired single mother, in deep need of love and affection? One that is getting this love and affection from a MM?

 

Would you tell her to go NC knowing that it might be so painful for her that she would likely fail at it eventually? And find a good, available, caring, etc etc single guy? Knowing that in her position it would be very difficult, if not impossible for a number of years, to find such a man who would be willing to have that "perfect" R with her and take on all her baggage?

 

When I was the struggling, busy, exhausted, financially insecure, tired, depressed, recovering-from-abuse, busy mom, I found satisfaction in building up my career and skills, I found friendship, peace, comfort, love, acceptance, joy and support from my faith and my spiritual family.

 

It served me well, and took me to a very, very good place in all areas and aspects of my life. I am sooooo glad that's where I turned, instead of to a mm. Looking back over the years, I'm positive I'm far better off for it.

[Got it]

I guess I have been lucky as given the scenarios given I have never been in a vulnerable state. Shoot even my divorce was as amicable as they come. My affair was actually about finding strength in myself and putting myself first for once. And I found a partner that complimented my strengths and bolstered my weaknesses and raised my bar. I was in an affair for him, not to be in affair. So yes, I did have a timeline set. I greatly enjoyed being his OW, shoot we joke even now about some of the differences of being MM/OW and BF/GF (oh how I did like that title sounds like we are in high school). But the core pieces of our relationship has stayed consistent. We have a great deal of love, respect, and enjoyment in the other person.

 

The affair has taught me a lot about myself, about other people, and yes even the vulnerabilities of a relationship. I have learned more about my boundaries and what I want and don't want in the future. But what it, and my marriage, taught me is I have no reason to settle for less than. I rebound fine, I want for little, and I have a very blessed life. I am humbled and grateful for what I have and want the same for others. But I do not see much vulnerability in my life. But maybe its still the fog.

[2sure]

When an OW solves or come to terms with her real vlunerabilities...the affair loses interest.

 

For me, I thought my biggest vulnerability was financial. I justified the affair by making it work for me, not just him. But when I realized that my real vulnerability was not feeling like I was somehow good enough for a solid relationship....I eventually said the hell with that. I am good enough, and further I am too good for this.

 

As a woman, a woman who has made huge mistakes and also I like to think - strides...I would never offer advice but only my own hindsight and suggest..because I CARE...that any single woman involved with a MM...happily or not...please look hard at your personal vulnerable points. The affair may be masking them, covering them, not solving them. And if that is the case...you are ignoring a potentially serious issue that is going to come to light in spades as time goes on.

[2sure]

So now, in hindsight, what would you have done differently?

 

What would you tell a vulnerable woman, who is struggling as a busy, financially insecure, depressed, tired single mother, in deep need of love and affection? One that is getting this love and affection from a MM?

 

Would you tell her to go NC knowing that it might be so painful for her that she would likely fail at it eventually? And find a good, available, caring, etc etc single guy? Knowing that in her position it would be very difficult, if not impossible for a number of years, to find such a man who would be willing to have that "perfect" R with her and take on all her baggage?

 

Ellin - I wanted you to know that it was you and these questions that prompted my last response above. I thought your questions were so important to ME and they really made me think....for days. lol. Thank you.

[BB07]

When an OW solves or come to terms with her real vlunerabilities...the affair loses interest.

 

For me, I thought my biggest vulnerability was financial. I justified the affair by making it work for me, not just him. But when I realized that my real vulnerability was not feeling like I was somehow good enough for a solid relationship....I eventually said the hell with that. I am good enough, and further I am too good for this.

 

As a woman, a woman who has made huge mistakes and also I like to think - strides...I would never offer advice but only my own hindsight and suggest..because I CARE...that any single woman involved with a MM...happily or not...please look hard at your personal vulnerable points. The affair may be masking them, covering them, not solving them. And if that is the case...you are ignoring a potentially serious issue that is going to come to light in spades as time goes on.

 

Awesome advice 2sure! :)

[OWoman]

When an OW solves or come to terms with her real vlunerabilities...the affair loses interest.

 

sometimes, for some women. For others it makes more sense than ever.

 

For me, I thought my biggest vulnerability was financial. I justified the affair by making it work for me, not just him. But when I realized that my real vulnerability was not feeling like I was somehow good enough for a solid relationship....I eventually said the hell with that. I am good enough, and further I am too good for this.

 

It's cool that your self-knowledge led you to that point. My self-knowledge back then led me to the affirmation that I was too good for the compromises and self-distortion required in a FTR with a SG. I'm not in the same space now, but my having moved into a different space doesn't make me ashamed or in denial about what was best for me back then - nor do I feel the need to explain my choices in terms of any kind of deficit model. I own my choices - I made them based on sound information and my own moral compass. They were the best choices I could have made at the time - and were I given another shot, I'd do it all exactly the same way.

 

As a woman, a woman who has made huge mistakes and also I like to think - strides...I would never offer advice but only my own hindsight and suggest..because I CARE...that any single woman involved with a MM...happily or not...please look hard at your personal vulnerable points. The affair may be masking them, covering them, not solving them. And if that is the case...you are ignoring a potentially serious issue that is going to come to light in spades as time goes on.

 

Or, they may be empowering you to move to a place where other choices become right for you.

 

Make your choices based on ALL the information.

[Ellin]

 

Ellin - I wanted you to know that it was you and these questions that prompted my last response above. I thought your questions were so important to ME and they really made me think....for days. lol. Thank you.

 

Thank YOU for answering my questions and answering them with such insight and wisdom - it was an inspirational post for me.