Husband Says He Just Doesn't Think Sometimes

[EBennett]

Glad to have found loveshack. I hope this helps.

 

Husband and I have been married for 3 years. We have trust issues. He has never cheated (intercourse) on me but has had some shady interactions with more than one woman in the past. Earlier in our relationship. When something would happen, and I would confront him, he would chalk it up to me overreacting. He would say that he was inexperienced in relationships, that he didn't realize that his behavior was inappropriate and that he relied on me to in a way, be his teacher. I spent quite a bit of time expressing how certain situations made me feel, etc. I feel now, like I am blue in the face. Just for background, the first few times it happened is was things like this:

 

He took a work trip with a lot of people. One was a girl who lives in a different state but was in town for the same reason he was. I found out later that he went to her hotel room that evening late late at night. He explained this away by saying that she was an old dear friend and that he merely stopped by to say hello as they hadn't seen each other. Left after five minutes. Told me that she's not attractive at all. To which I said, it doesn't matter what she looks like, I don't want my husband in hotel rooms with other women.

 

Another instance involved an IM conversation with another co-worker that went like this:

 

Him - how's it going?

Her - good, what are you up to?

Him - Missin' you

 

The rest of the convo was tame but I told him that made me feel terrible! He explained it away as that's just how he talks. I told him that I'd prefer he not talk to other women that way.

 

Fast forward to now, those instances along with others have left me with no trust in this man. He knows this and expresses how badly he wants to re-build my trust. But when something like this happens again, he belittles my feelings, tells me I'm overreacting, and gets very smug with me.

 

Case in point - He left for another trip last night. On Sunday he has to fly back early to make it to a football game. He mentioned trying to get a ride with someone in Chicago who could get him from the city he's in to Chicago. I said "good idea. Just make sure it's another guy or a couple". On tuesday he mentioned that he would have to ask how I feel about it but he knows a girl who might be able to do it. I shut down. At this point I'm just shaking my head. It made me sad and he once again told me I was making a mountain out of a molehill. Said he never intended to ask the girl for a ride, that he just can't control his mouth sometimes! Why doesn't he get it? In order to rebuild my trust, I need for him to not do/say things like this? The other day, he offered a co-worker a ride to the transit station because it was cold outside. I know something like that isn't necessarily wrong, but I wish he wouldn't do things that put him in positions that make me feel worried.

 

 

How can I possibly get him to understand? I am starting to feel as though it is a lost cause and that I should end my marriage purely on the principal that I don't trust him. However, because he explains and justifies all of these things, I question whether or not I'm a total crazy!

 

Any perspective to offer would help a lot.

[hoping2heal]

Glad to have found loveshack. I hope this helps.

 

Husband and I have been married for 3 years. We have trust issues. He has never cheated (intercourse) on me but has had some shady interactions with more than one woman in the past. Earlier in our relationship. When something would happen, and I would confront him, he would chalk it up to me overreacting. He would say that he was inexperienced in relationships, that he didn't realize that his behavior was inappropriate and that he relied on me to in a way, be his teacher. I spent quite a bit of time expressing how certain situations made me feel, etc. I feel now, like I am blue in the face. Just for background, the first few times it happened is was things like this:

 

He took a work trip with a lot of people. One was a girl who lives in a different state but was in town for the same reason he was. I found out later that he went to her hotel room that evening late late at night. He explained this away by saying that she was an old dear friend and that he merely stopped by to say hello as they hadn't seen each other. Left after five minutes. Told me that she's not attractive at all. To which I said, it doesn't matter what she looks like, I don't want my husband in hotel rooms with other women.

 

Another instance involved an IM conversation with another co-worker that went like this:

 

Him - how's it going?

Her - good, what are you up to?

Him - Missin' you

 

The rest of the convo was tame but I told him that made me feel terrible! He explained it away as that's just how he talks. I told him that I'd prefer he not talk to other women that way.

 

Fast forward to now, those instances along with others have left me with no trust in this man. He knows this and expresses how badly he wants to re-build my trust. But when something like this happens again, he belittles my feelings, tells me I'm overreacting, and gets very smug with me.

 

Case in point - He left for another trip last night. On Sunday he has to fly back early to make it to a football game. He mentioned trying to get a ride with someone in Chicago who could get him from the city he's in to Chicago. I said "good idea. Just make sure it's another guy or a couple". On tuesday he mentioned that he would have to ask how I feel about it but he knows a girl who might be able to do it. I shut down. At this point I'm just shaking my head. It made me sad and he once again told me I was making a mountain out of a molehill. Said he never intended to ask the girl for a ride, that he just can't control his mouth sometimes! Why doesn't he get it? In order to rebuild my trust, I need for him to not do/say things like this? The other day, he offered a co-worker a ride to the transit station because it was cold outside. I know something like that isn't necessarily wrong, but I wish he wouldn't do things that put him in positions that make me feel worried.

 

 

How can I possibly get him to understand? I am starting to feel as though it is a lost cause and that I should end my marriage purely on the principal that I don't trust him. However, because he explains and justifies all of these things, I question whether or not I'm a total crazy!

 

Any perspective to offer would help a lot.

 

I had a feeling from the moment I read the paragraph where you explained he told you he doesn't have much relationship experience and expects you to "teach him" how to conduct himself in one, things were going to go badly.

 

First of all, he may not have much relationship experience but he took no responsibility for his actions at all. He shrugged it off and made an excuse and then put the brunt of the responsibility on YOU. That is just not done.

 

When this guy says he doesn't think? I gotta tell you..I kind of believe him. He is definately acting and speaking as though the brain in his head has been switched on off. Even if what was said to the coworker was nothing more than meaningless flirtation - a woman's husband does not go around telling other women he misses them. The hotel thing..just ugh. I am not sure you can get through to this person or not, it seems like he is already aware he has broken your trust time and time again yet he doesn't know how to be aware of NOT doing the things that cause it?

 

I mean if you cannot trust him this won't be a very happy home for long. He also needs to be aware that HE is responsible for learning how to properly conduct himself in a relationship. It is not your job to do it just because he tells you he has not had much experience. He can use google or go to a library if he is that damn inept at personal relationships to know what he's doing is just not done. Time to take off the pull ups he's been wearing and put on the big boy panties.

[JackJack]

"he belittles my feelings, tells me I'm overreacting, and gets very smug with me"

 

"because he explains and justifies all of these things, I question whether or not I'm a total crazy!"

 

Both of these things stated above are redflags, as is, some of the other things you mentioned, especially the IM convo.. Of course he is going to explain himself away and make it out like its no big deal, because he is trying to cover his tail. Whether there is truly something going on or not, I think the main issue here is him belittling your feelings, and there is usually a reason why that is. I'm not saying he is doing anything for sure, I'm just saying he already knows how you feel on the issue and he doesn't seem to really care. Obviously he is getting something out of it.

 

The main question for you is, what do you think is truly going on with him? And, what you feel you need to do, because I have a feeling he isn't going to stop just because you are uncomfortable with it.

[laRubiaBonita]

so he tells you about these interactions? how did you find out about the IM conversation?

 

also, did things change AFTER you got married? was he like this before?

[EBennett]

 

The main question for you is, what do you think is truly going on with him? And, what you feel you need to do, because I have a feeling he isn't going to stop just because you are uncomfortable with it.

 

I honestly don't know anymore. I think he truly enjoys attention from other women. He has a very flirtatious personality. I also believe that despite his professions of understanding my perception of his behavior, that it's really just lip service. I wonder sometimes if having the same done to him would make the light bulb go on. But it's just not in my nature to do those things. And hypothetical questions don't work with him. I've come to realize that that's because he trusts me. It's hard for him to imagine how it would make him feel because he can't see me in that light.

 

As far as what action I want to take...I don't know that either. It seems such a shame to end a marriage to someone I love and to someone who loves me. But feeling this way is no way to live and his inability to really change these bad habits (habits is what he calls them), cause me to have very little faith in the future.

[EBennett]

so he tells you about these interactions? how did you find out about the IM conversation?

 

also, did things change AFTER you got married? was he like this before?

 

 

 

I found the open IM on his computer. It was right there for me to see. I read it because I had a gut feeling about this girl.

 

The hotel thing was revealed when the girl posted a "great to see you" comment on his social profile. I probed, he told.

 

He changed somewhat after marriage in that the sheer volume of female friends and correspondence dwindled. I expressed major concern prior to the wedding and proposed postponing the date due to the trust issues. He pressed and pressed and promised to make real efforts. I caved and went through with it anyway.

 

The guy is absolutely terrified of losing me yet he does these things. I don't understand it.

 

I am to blame as well, though. There are so many things in hindsight that I could have done differently.

[EBennett]

While the blatantly inappropriate behaviors have quieted somewhat, he still says things like "is it ok for me to catch a ride with a girl from Rockford to Chicago....."

 

 

I've asked him in so many ways to be sensitive to how fragile this trust issues is. Don't do things like that. Don't put me in positions where I have to explain once again what I find to be uncomfortable (i.e. road trip with a lone female). Regardless of the fact that he said he didn't mean to say it. It's there. It's proof that he's still in that place.

 

Oh and then during our fight yesterday he says "what about the things I do do to be sensitive to you? Like how another co-worker offered to make me hot chocolate at work. I turned her down! I really would have enjoyed some hot chocolate but I knew that would piss you off!"

 

How infantile is that? And what is he really saying to me there? I've explained that it's not the entire FEMALE GENDER that makes me worry. It's his behavior.

 

Ugh.

[JackJack]

"The guy is absolutely terrified of losing me yet he does these things. I don't understand it."

 

He is probably a cake eater then. He wants the security of you being here, but still want to be able to flirt or do whatever he wants. It doesn't work that way.

 

Also he might enjoy the attention of you being jealous or questioning him. I know it might sound odd, but some people enjoy others being jealous or worried by their actions.

[EBennett]

"He is probably a cake eater then. He wants the security of you being here, but still want to be able to flirt or do whatever he wants. It doesn't work that way."

 

No, it doesn't. And he's a "wool puller" as well. Or tries to be. He's horrible at it. He often comments on my uncanny perceptive abilities when they aren't used against him. Is there hope for cake eaters?

[2sure]

I married my H when he was 40. He had never been in a committed relationship before so when the red lags regarding boundaries with the opposite sex started popping up I let him explain away my offense and concerns with his telling me He wasnt used to having boundaries, was not aware how he came across. He didnt know. lol. So, like you - I explained. Often. In detail.

 

He knew. He understood, just like yours does. A man does not go into a single womans hotel room late at night to chat. A man does not text a co-worker to say he misses her.

 

My husband was a serial cheater. He adored me. But what he enjoyed more was getting away with it.

 

Get access to his cell phone records.

[EBennett]

I married my H when he was 40. He had never been in a committed relationship before so when the red lags regarding boundaries with the opposite sex started popping up I let him explain away my offense and concerns with his telling me He wasnt used to having boundaries, was not aware how he came across. He didnt know. lol. So, like you - I explained. Often. In detail.

 

He knew. He understood, just like yours does. A man does not go into a single womans hotel room late at night to chat. A man does not text a co-worker to say he misses her.

 

My husband was a serial cheater. He adored me. But what he enjoyed more was getting away with it.

 

Get access to his cell phone records.

 

 

I have access. We share a phone plan.

 

Such similarities. He's 37 years old. No real serious relationships. Never needed to "behave". The explaining is so exhausting. How many different ways can one say the same thing?

 

What should I be looking for in cell records? And what if I find nothing?

[EBennett]

2sure - another thing he does is tout his values and moral character. How he's just not the kind of guy that would EVER cheat on his wife. That it's hurtful to him that I would think that was possible.

 

Did your husband ever say anything like that?

[hoping2heal]

He probably doesn't want to lose you , but he is not terrified. If he were terrified he would have shaped up and went on best behavior, he didn't. He knows you put up with his crap and tolerate it, so again he wouldn't want to lose you - but he clearly feels that actually losing you is not a possibility. Consider how much he has already done and gotten away with.

 

He seems to be one of those people who will behave according to what they can get away with. Ruining your trust may bother him a little bit and likely does - a little bit. Yet, it clearly doesn't concern him enough to shape up his act for YOUR sake. What he knows is that his Relationship with you isn't going anywhere no matter how he acts and that is what his main concern is.

[2sure]

LOLOLOL...my Husband was a politician.

[2sure]

EB-

 

I'm a bit jaded. Maybe you are paranoid. But...dont ignore what I did, the results will probably be similar as well.

 

Check his phone records for any numbers that are called often, especially text messages. Its inexpensive and easy to have a search done on line for numbers that seem suspicious to you.

 

If you find none , look for gaps in the records when you know he was on the phone or should have been. He may , like most - have an additional cell phone you dont know about. Look for it.

 

If after all of this...you find nothing , then you can work on the two of you communicating better. But find out first or the conversation isnt worth having.

[Snowflower]

Wow, EBennett, I can relate to a lot in your post.

 

My guess is that he has extremely poor boundaries with women. Does he have guy buddies, or is he one to be friendly with women?

 

I honestly don't think he means to hurt you by his actions, he just doesn't get it. It would take you doing similar things (chatting up guy friends, texting them, etc) to maybe make him see the light. I also understand your reluctance to do this when it is not in your nature. I'm the same way.

 

He resents you putting the breaks on his behavior because he doesn't understand the severity of it. To him, you seem like you're a bit controlling, obsessive and jealous. What he doesn't get is that his actions and behaviors have made you this way!

 

Like I said, I can really relate. My H has always been very friendly with women. There were a couple of weird incidents throughout our marriage but it wasn't until 2 years ago that his poor boundaries with women made him cross the line into an affair.

 

This is what worries me about your H: is that he doesn't seem to understand the harm in his behavior. Like my H, it was always me being the controlling one.

 

My H nearly lost me (twice) because of his poor boundaries with women. I finally told him that he needed to learn to monitor his own behavior because it was not my job to do it. He had a choice to make.

 

I think you need to lay down the law with your H. Really, really make him think about what he is doing. I would suggest separation if he can't get the hint.

 

Perhaps if he saw that you were no longer willing to put up with his behavior then these side friendships would no longer be as important to him.

[laRubiaBonita]

you could also start acting the way he acts with other men.

 

maybe he needs to experience what you are going through?

 

although that could totally backfire.... just a thought though

[EBennett]

He probably doesn't want to lose you , but he is not terrified. If he were terrified he would have shaped up and went on best behavior, he didn't. He knows you put up with his crap and tolerate it, so again he wouldn't want to lose you - but he clearly feels that actually losing you is not a possibility. Consider how much he has already done and gotten away with.

 

He seems to be one of those people who will behave according to what they can get away with. Ruining your trust may bother him a little bit and likely does - a little bit. Yet, it clearly doesn't concern him enough to shape up his act for YOUR sake. What he knows is that his Relationship with you isn't going anywhere no matter how he acts and that is what his main concern is.

 

This is all probably true. My ultimate tolerance of the behavior (i.e. not leaving) is not helping.

 

However, I'd like to believe that if he had a problem with a certain behavior of mine, that I'd be able to fix it w/o him leaving. Wish he were like that.

 

Perhaps I should suggest that we separate. I can't explain my feelings to him any better than I have. Truly understanding me would have been evidenced by this behavior going away and his boundaries with the opposite sex becoming more appropriate. I would have seen the change. I wouldn't be dealing with rides for the cold coworkers, etc. because he would have ceased putting himself in those positions. He's not walking the talk.

[2sure]

Look up the term "Gaslighting" here and on google

[laRubiaBonita]

why not suggest marriage counseling?

 

i think jumping to separating with out even try MC is a big leap!

[EBennett]

why not suggest marriage counseling?

 

i think jumping to separating with out even try MC is a big leap!

 

 

It is a big leap. It's probably coming from my state of frustration. We've discussed counseling. He seems ambivalent to the idea. The first time it was brought up, he said in so many words that he didn't think we needed it. Then later on, said that he'll try anything (including therapy) to keep from losing me, yet here we are..no change and no call to set the appt. Perhaps it is nonsensical of me, but I'd really like for him to take action with it. I feel spent.

[EnigmasMuse]

IMO, he will keep doing what he is doing because he can. There is no kind of action being taken, he is just hearing words and that doesn't seem to make a hill of beans to him.

 

I completely understand you wanting him to take some kind of action on things, however, for whatever reason, I doubt that is going to happen, he is probably content with you being there and him still being able to do whatever.

 

Its probably going to have to be up to you to take some kind of action. It may or may not make a difference to him, but its worth a shot to at least see.

[EBennett]

Look up the term "Gaslighting" here and on google

 

OK. While I don't think I'm dealing with a sociopath, I definitely heard some bells when I read through some of the definitions.

 

Most notably, when I confront him and he accuses me of being over reactive, the discussion becomes more one of me defending my reaction rather than him standing accountable for his lack of boundaries.

[EnigmasMuse]

OK. While I don't think I'm dealing with a sociopath, I definitely heard some bells when I read through some of the definitions.

 

Most notably, when I confront him and he accuses me of being over reactive, the discussion becomes more one of me defending my reaction rather than him standing accountable for his lack of boundaries.

 

 

Yep thats the plan. Thats how that usually works. Puts it off on you, or makes you feel you are overreacting, when really you're not. It takes the attention away from him and what he is doing, because he is the one in the wrong, but doesn't want to own up to it, Its a manipulative behavior.

[Minnie09]

I agree. Manipulative and very well thought-through. I don't believe for one second that he doesn't know what he's doing. Ignoring your feelings and playing dumb is a form of control. I doubt he's a complete retard, right?