Open Marriage and very happy

[John Bigboote]

Strange that some women would prefer men who lie to their wives - but maybe they think it shows stronger interest or investment on the man's part. I really don't understand it.

 

I've encountered this phenomenon. It's pretty fascinating. I'm pretty sure that it's because cheating is the only non-monogamy that has a place in the social narrative. It's not a good place, but people understand what cheating is. Open marriage is not a part of that narrative. So to people who've heard nothing else, it's basically impossible to separate the concepts of nonmonogamy and cheating, so if you say you're not cheating because wifey knows and approves, then you're speaking an utterly foreign language, and it sounds like gibberish. And as gibberish, it sounds disconcerting and probably dishonest to that ear.

 

I'm not saying this to be mean, but it really boggles my mind as to what you consider to be "committed to one another"? Could you please elaborate on that because I just can't grasp how you can be committed to someone and say they're "the one" and then go out and have sex with someone else...?

 

Change "go out and have sex with someone else" to "go out and have dinner with someone else" and you'll have some idea. An emotional commitment to love and cherish someone forever doesn't necessarily have to be exclusive of other people too. Having sex with someone, or even loving someone, doesn't mean you love your other someone any less. You can't run out of love.

[woinlove]

I'm not saying this to be mean, but it really boggles my mind as to what you consider to be "committed to one another"? Could you please elaborate on that because I just can't grasp how you can be committed to someone and say they're "the one" and then go out and have sex with someone else, building another relationship outside the marital one. How do you figure commitment into that, what is your definition of being committed to your spouse when you're in an open marriage?

 

Committed to us means we plan to share the rest of our lives together as lovers, friends, family - a married couple. We share a home and a family, we share our ideas, hopes, worries, desires, plans, finances,... Any outside relationship is secondary. I understand there are some open marriages where outside R may be on equal footing, but that is not what my H and I have. Still, outside Rs can, at times, have a lot of passion, even some obsession, but if there is ever any conflict with needs or security, it is my H and M that takes priority.

 

Really, it is probably much like any marriage, where the couple support and help each other and are committed to being there for each other. We just don't do the "forsaking all others" part, so we didn't put that in our marriage vows.

[woinlove]

Well it's not for me, I couldn't handle it and wouldn't want to try. I can admit I'd be jealous and insecure, and part of my marriage vows were about monogamy because that's important to me and my husband. But I think that trying to tell other people what their marriage vows should include or that their marriages aren't real is really arrogant and insulting. Some people think marriage is only to make babies, some people think it's a huge religious connection, some people just want the legal and financial stuff taken care of, some people get married just for the big wedding and get divorced a year later. My personal take: people who are together for 20 years and in love and raising children and best friends and committed to growing old and taking care of each other in sickness, who happen to have sexual contact maybe even romantic contact with other people as long as it's all agreed to honestly and openly...that sounds plenty married to me.

 

Thanks! You have a very generous attitude toward others.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

I would suggest you post in a poly forum

 

 

Why? Is this not a Marriage & Life partnership forum?

[sally4sara]

Naw, it's not false amd it doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand.

 

Your knowledge of history is amazing. How can I offer anything in the face of such infallible truth. You must teach me this phenomenal debate tactic.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

Your knowledge of history is amazing. How can I offer anything in the face of such infallible truth. You must teach me this phenomenal debate tactic.

 

 

HAHAHA That was too funny!!

[John Bigboote]

2. The married sex IS hot, and partly because of the spark from the outside partners. I'd be curious to know if that is dependent on the sex with outside partner being hot....or if it happens even if the third-party sex is lukewarm.

 

I think pretty much everyone knows that long periods of time with a single partner make you more and more habituated to that partner... more and more comfortable... too comfortable. The lovemaking is more efficient and less exciting over time. The testosterone declines and with that... everything in life becomes grayer and blander.

 

Then you meet someone new you can flirt with, dance with, play with. Feeling free to flirt and play with that person is a liberating experience: the lovemaking is new and exciting, and the T levels shoot up again. That makes the whole universe snap back into vibrant color, including your sex with your primary partner. So it really makes no difference if the sex with the secondary partner is mediocre. (In fact, mediocre sex with a new person can be a breath of fresh air compared to the I-know-how-to-give-you-a-quick-orgasm-then-roll-over-asleep sex with an old one!) It's the flirting and seduction that fires up the engines again. YMMV.

[JustJoe]

I've encountered this phenomenon. It's pretty fascinating. I'm pretty sure that it's because cheating is the only non-monogamy that has a place in the social narrative. It's not a good place, but people understand what cheating is. Open marriage is not a part of that narrative. So to people who've heard nothing else, it's basically impossible to separate the concepts of nonmonogamy and cheating, so if you say you're not cheating because wifey knows and approves, then you're speaking an utterly foreign language, and it sounds like gibberish. And as gibberish, it sounds disconcerting and probably dishonest to that ear.

 

 

 

Change "go out and have sex with someone else" to "go out and have dinner with someone else" and you'll have some idea. An emotional commitment to love and cherish someone forever doesn't necessarily have to be exclusive of other people too. Having sex with someone, or even loving someone, doesn't mean you love your other someone any less. You can't run out of love.

Sorry, but I simply couldn't let this pass, John, surely you can see the difference between eating with another person and f**king them? It's not the same thing at all, or even close.

[Distant78]

Your knowledge of history is amazing. How can I offer anything in the face of such infallible truth. You must teach me this phenomenal debate tactic.

 

Thank you. My knowledge of history is amazing. You can't offer me anything that will make me believe such a lie. Fact is, there is no point in getting married if all the partners are going to do is sleep with others outside the marriage.

[JustJoe]

Committed to us means we plan to share the rest of our lives together as lovers, friends, family - a married couple. We share a home and a family, we share our ideas, hopes, worries, desires, plans, finances,... Any outside relationship is secondary. I understand there are some open marriages where outside R may be on equal footing, but that is not what my H and I have. Still, outside Rs can, at times, have a lot of passion, even some obsession, but if there is ever any conflict with needs or security, it is my H and M that takes priority.

 

Really, it is probably much like any marriage, where the couple support and help each other and are committed to being there for each other. We just don't do the "forsaking all others" part, so we didn't put that in our marriage vows.

Since you put it that way, woinlove, it must be splendid for you. The amount of self-delusion in this thread is incredible. I actually showed this thread to my GF, and she asked,"are these people serious?". I said, yep, it's amazing what people will do when they aren't getting enough.. Listen, you can make up any rules and situations you like, it's a free country, but don't try to sell me any "pie in the sky", because I'm betting that at least one member of each couple is or was unsatisfied sexually or emotionally and the other is just trying to make the best of a bad situation. I've seen it and heard it all before. Somebody is going to get hurt.

[Distant78]

These relationships rarely succeed and your husband or you will come to a point where you don't want to do it anymore, and the other will resist, causing a breakdown. That's why when you open the door to this type of stuff, it will never close, no matter how hard you try.

[aerogurl87]

Committed to us means we plan to share the rest of our lives together as lovers, friends, family - a married couple. We share a home and a family, we share our ideas, hopes, worries, desires, plans, finances,... Any outside relationship is secondary. I understand there are some open marriages where outside R may be on equal footing, but that is not what my H and I have. Still, outside Rs can, at times, have a lot of passion, even some obsession, but if there is ever any conflict with needs or security, it is my H and M that takes priority.

 

Really, it is probably much like any marriage, where the couple support and help each other and are committed to being there for each other. We just don't do the "forsaking all others" part, so we didn't put that in our marriage vows.

 

That makes sense I guess, and if it works for you two, then that's all good. But I have one more quick question, lol. What would you do if your husband met another woman and wanted her to become a permanent fixture in your lives? Have you two discussed the possibility of that happening and what you'd do in such a situation since it seems to me that the odds of it happening are pretty great since you're both allowed to be not only physically, but also emotionally intimate with other people.

[aerogurl87]

 

Change "go out and have sex with someone else" to "go out and have dinner with someone else" and you'll have some idea. An emotional commitment to love and cherish someone forever doesn't necessarily have to be exclusive of other people too. Having sex with someone, or even loving someone, doesn't mean you love your other someone any less. You can't run out of love.

 

I find it funny that you said that, as I'm sure many cheaters think the exact same thing when they cheat on their SO. Just a thought.

[John Bigboote]

I find it funny that you said that, as I'm sure many cheaters think the exact same thing when they cheat on their SO. Just a thought.

 

The difference, of course, being openness, honesty, responsibility, and consent.

[woinlove]

Since you put it that way, woinlove, it must be splendid for you. The amount of self-delusion in this thread is incredible. I actually showed this thread to my GF, and she asked,"are these people serious?". I said, yep, it's amazing what people will do when they aren't getting enough.. Listen, you can make up any rules and situations you like, it's a free country, but don't try to sell me any "pie in the sky", because I'm betting that at least one member of each couple is or was unsatisfied sexually or emotionally and the other is just trying to make the best of a bad situation. I've seen it and heard it all before. Somebody is going to get hurt.

 

I definitely don't want to sell you anything. In fact, from your posts, I would guess that you would be unlikely to make an open marriage work.

[woinlove]

That makes sense I guess, and if it works for you two, then that's all good. But I have one more quick question, lol. What would you do if your husband met another woman and wanted her to become a permanent fixture in your lives? Have you two discussed the possibility of that happening and what you'd do in such a situation since it seems to me that the odds of it happening are pretty great since you're both allowed to be not only physically, but also emotionally intimate with other people.

 

Yes, we've discussed that, and us living a life with three people is not something we dismiss out of hand, but it seems unlikely to both of us, since we both consider any other relationships secondary to our own. We've been living this way for many years and both want to continue to do so, so I don't think the odds are as high as you think.

[Distant78]

Yes, we've discussed that, and us living a life with three people is not something we dismiss out of hand, but it seems unlikely to both of us, since we both consider any other relationships secondary to our own. We've been living this way for many years and both want to continue to do so, so I don't think the odds are as high as you think.

 

Yea, but how long do you really think it'll last? What if your husband was adamant in not wanting to continue sleeping with women and wanted you to stop also? If you think the odds aren't as high you're mistaken, you just haven't hit the stage where both of you have to handle "jealousy," fighting over partners, and deception and whatnot.

[JustJoe]

I definitely don't want to sell you anything. In fact, from your posts, I would guess that you would be unlikely to make an open marriage work.

You're probably right about that, Woinlove. I don't possess the necessary self-delusion, dishonesty, selfishness or an impressionable SO to make it work. I used to be a OM in an affair, but I never deluded myself into thinking that I was anything else. BTW, I would be interested in knowing if either you or LHLH were married in a church, if so, you are both fornicators and adulterers, by definition. ( not mine, the churches) NO reputable Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu faith considers "open marriages', as anything other than sin. That whole "forsaking all others", part and the " two shall become one flesh", part would seem to indicate that you are on the wrong track here. Riddle: when is a marriage, not a marriage? When it is an open marriage. But I do thank both of you, for an interesting thread.

[Kendrick]

To me, I always thought of open marriages as nothing more than consentual adultery. Its the same as cheating, its just that both people know.

[woinlove]

Yea, but how long do you really think it'll last? What if your husband was adamant in not wanting to continue sleeping with women and wanted you to stop also? If you think the odds aren't as high you're mistaken, you just haven't hit the stage where both of you have to handle "jealousy," fighting over partners, and deception and whatnot.

 

No, we haven't had to handle "fighting over partners and deception". "Deception" is sort of the opposite of "open". Some jealousy, yes, in the earlier years. We've lived this way for over 25 years, almost all of those married. I'm not sure which stage you think is ahead of us. I like having this freedom, but if my H wanted us to stop, I would.

[woinlove]

To me, I always thought of open marriages as nothing more than consentual adultery. Its the same as cheating, its just that both people know.

 

If it is the sex or emotional connection outside of marriage, rather than the lying, deception and betrayal, that bothers you, then I can see why you might think of them as the same - although I don't agree. The semantics is off, though, since "cheat" means to deceive.

[JustJoe]

To me, I always thought of open marriages as nothing more than consentual adultery. Its the same as cheating, its just that both people know.

This is actually a very good definition.

[Kendrick]

If it is the sex or emotional connection outside of marriage, rather than the lying, deception and betrayal, that bothers you, then I can see why you might think of them as the same - although I don't agree. The semantics is off, though, since "cheat" means to deceive.

 

 

Just a question I often wondered. Has there ever been a time since the both of you have been doing this, where either of you might have felt, there were more women or more men on the side than either of you knew about? I know there was some mention of being open and honest, I'm assuming that means letting the other one know about who you are with etc.? Have either of you ever found out there was another person(s) the other one didn't know about? If so, how was that handled?

[JustJoe]

Adultery and cheating are not the same thing. There is no implication of deception in adultery.

[xxoo]

I think pretty much everyone knows that long periods of time with a single partner make you more and more habituated to that partner... more and more comfortable... too comfortable. The lovemaking is more efficient and less exciting over time. The testosterone declines and with that... everything in life becomes grayer and blander.

 

Then you meet someone new you can flirt with, dance with, play with. Feeling free to flirt and play with that person is a liberating experience: the lovemaking is new and exciting, and the T levels shoot up again. That makes the whole universe snap back into vibrant color, including your sex with your primary partner. So it really makes no difference if the sex with the secondary partner is mediocre. (In fact, mediocre sex with a new person can be a breath of fresh air compared to the I-know-how-to-give-you-a-quick-orgasm-then-roll-over-asleep sex with an old one!) It's the flirting and seduction that fires up the engines again. YMMV.

 

It makes sense to me that sex with new partners would be a path to renewed sexual excitement with the "old" partner.

 

It is not, of course, the only path, and I disagree that "everyone knows" what you've posted in the first paragraph. And I am very happy that my mono married sex is not limited to the bolded! Just because you can give someone a quick orgasm doesn't mean you have to. It just means you can control the timing for the greatest impact

 

This has been a very interesting thread! I don't really understand why people get worked up because other people decide to have open marriages, but I guess I can understand it if they don't believe it is truly a mutually desired situation.