Open Marriage and very happy

[JackJack]

Thanks for answering those questions. As far as the porn question, its not silly, well not to me anyway. I asked because so many people in today's society are or can be influenced by it.

 

I guess I was thinking along the lines of people who watch orgies, where people are with others, partner swapping etc. Yeah its a movie, but yeah alot of those things that happen on there also happen in real life.

 

As far as we all being an overly horny person growing up, I can see that. I was, but I guess for ME being overly horny didn't play a role in me wanting to be with others other than my wife. Not saying it was because you were, I'm saying for ME it didn't lead me in that direction. Once again, it was just a question.

 

My entitlement question once again, was just a question, thanks for answering.

[aerogurl87]

Everyone is an overly horny person growing up. I'm not any more sexual than other people around me, as far as I can tell. I just put no value on what other people call "self-control" and what I call "self-denial." Life is for living. I don't care to self-control myself all the way to the nursing home.

 

I definitely feel entitled to live my life in the way I choose to do. Do you feel "entitled" to monogamy? I don't even know what that means.

 

I respect anyone's decision to choose to the type of relationship they want to be in, but if you feel you are entitled to live your life anyway you want, then there may be some serious issues there. Also self control is a good thing. It's a sign of maturity and teaches people that they can't have anything on this Earth they want without hard work. I can't just go rob a bank because I want some money, I have to work with it.

 

Same with relationships. I can't just go screw some guy because he's hot. I have to control myself because I don't want to hurt someone else in the process. I'm hoping I'm misinterpreting what you meant by this statement because having a sense of entitlement is usually a sign of emotional immaturity.

[sally4sara]

There is a lot of truth to this, but in "normal", ones, you only have two people to satisfy. In these other relationships, you have many more. I feel the same way about Polygamy, who, in their right mind would want to add MORE partners? It's hard enough to deal with one SO (as we see here on LS all of the time) more or bigger doesn't necessarily translate to better, any more than more sex equals better sex. Don't believe me, ask a hooker. WE have evolved our marriage customs over thousands of years of experience and NO culture or religion except "fringe", ones accept this definition of marriage, why? because it doesn't work in the long run. African proverb: Before you change your ancestors customs, you must make sure that you have something of greater value, to replace them with. I don't think a marriage based on casual sexual encounters is of greater value than thousands of years of human relationships, do you?

 

Well it is only fringe to us because of what the standard is in our country. We could very well be seen as "fringe" to others.

 

And our own "normal" customs of marriage have continued to change and evolve too over the centuries. You won't be demanding a daughter of yours remains a virgin so you can procure the best son-in-law in some business arrangement. And you cannot legally punish her if she has sex and ruins your business deal. Well - unless you're a Kennedy and then you can have her lobotomized.

Our original customs of marriage do not equate thousands of years of human relationships if you are thinking of marriage as defined by today's standards even with monogamous ones because so much has changed concerning marriage since it was invented. Some people see divorce rates and think "oh we've screwed it all up". But I think it is for the better now because two people can chose to marry for love and of their free will.

[John Bigboote]

Well then maybe you can answer my questions in this?

 

Are you ever made happy when your partner goes off to have sex with someone else? Or is it just an "oh well, I'll catch up with them later" and you try to put it out of your mind kind of thing? Ever been around your partner and their other and felt out of the loop or that they were not as aligned with you as you believed? Ever experienced a moment during socialization where your were treated oddly because they met your partner's other first and believed THAT was their spouse - not you? What did that feel like?

 

I'm perfectly happy when my partner goes off with someone else, because I know that she's increasing her happiness and her sex drive. And it means I'll have some time to do things or people I like to do. I personally get off on her being with other people: it makes her seem sexually insatiable. Mmmm.

 

There's no need to put anything out of mind most of the time. The only time in the last year or so I had any negative feelings in this sort of context at all was one night that was supposed to be for me and her alone, but we bumped into her lover and best friend... he joined us and they dominated the conversation on a night that was supposed to be for us. But *shrug* we talked it out later, like any other marital issue that might arise. Not a big deal, really.

 

My wife and I are pretty frelling aligned. That's why we're together.

 

Sometimes strange interactions can occur when other people who don't know us make assumptions. It's usually kind of funny. One of us will sometimes get pulled to the side by someone who looks like they've just seen a terrible 38-car pileup who needs to tell us that they hate to be the one to bear bad news, but they saw her kissing another guy a few days ago (*gasp*)! Clearly they've been agonizing over trying to decide whether to tell or not. Which is pretty bad agony, and I feel for them and apologize for that pain they've gone through. And then I'll say, "It's all right. That's her friend J----. Cool guy. You should meet him." Usually, that defuses the situation right there, actually. But if that's enough to horrify them, then we never hear from those people again, and that suits us just fine. But happily, that doesn't actually happen that often.

[aerogurl87]

There is a lot of truth to this, but in "normal", ones, you only have two people to satisfy. In these other relationships, you have many more. I feel the same way about Polygamy, who, in their right mind would want to add MORE partners? It's hard enough to deal with one SO (as we see here on LS all of the time) more or bigger doesn't necessarily translate to better, any more than more sex equals better sex. Don't believe me, ask a hooker. WE have evolved our marriage customs over thousands of years of experience and NO culture or religion except "fringe", ones accept this definition of marriage, why? because it doesn't work in the long run. African proverb: Before you change your ancestors customs, you must make sure that you have something of greater value, to replace them with. I don't think a marriage based on casual sexual encounters is of greater value than thousands of years of human relationships, do you?

 

JustJoe does make a good point. In a polyamourous relationship you have multiple parties. For me, if I were involved in one I'd feel like although my partners were aware of each other, that I'd be cheating them. Cheating to me doesn't mean deceit all the time, it can also mean not giving yourself fully to someone. And if you're sharing your secrets and desires with someone other than your main partner and running to that other person to discuss your problems, before or after discussing them with your main partner, then you're cheating your partner out of having you fully to me. And that could definitely cause more problems than a monogamous relationship.

[JustJoe]

Well it is only fringe to us because of what the standard is in our country. We could very well be seen as "fringe" to others.

 

And our own "normal" customs of marriage have continued to change and evolve too over the centuries. You won't be demanding a daughter of yours remains a virgin so you can procure the best son-in-law in some business arrangement. And you cannot legally punish her if she has sex and ruins your business deal. Well - unless you're a Kennedy and then you can have her lobotomized.

Our original customs of marriage do not equate thousands of years of human relationships if you are thinking of marriage as defined by today's standards even with monogamous ones because so much has changed concerning marriage since it was invented. Some people see divorce rates and think "oh we've screwed it all up". But I think it is for the better now because two people can chose to marry for love and of their free will.

I guess it comes down to....would you choose this type of marriage/relationship for your children? I'm betting that most (almost all) would say no. We all want the best for our kids, and clearly this (almost marriage) isn't it.

[sally4sara]

I'm perfectly happy when my partner goes off with someone else, because I know that she's increasing her happiness and her sex drive. And it means I'll have some time to do things or people I like to do. I personally get off on her being with other people: it makes her seem sexually insatiable. Mmmm.

 

There's no need to put anything out of mind most of the time. The only time in the last year or so I had any negative feelings in this sort of context at all was one night that was supposed to be for me and her alone, but we bumped into her lover and best friend... he joined us and they dominated the conversation on a night that was supposed to be for us. But *shrug* we talked it out later, like any other marital issue that might arise. Not a big deal, really.

 

My wife and I are pretty frelling aligned. That's why we're together.

 

Sometimes strange interactions can occur when other people who don't know us make assumptions. It's usually kind of funny. One of us will sometimes get pulled to the side by someone who looks like they've just seen a terrible 38-car pileup who needs to tell us that they hate to be the one to bear bad news, but they saw her kissing another guy a few days ago (*gasp*)! Clearly they've been agonizing over trying to decide whether to tell or not. Which is pretty bad agony, and I feel for them and apologize for that pain they've gone through. And then I'll say, "It's all right. That's her friend J----. Cool guy. You should meet him." Usually, that defuses the situation right there, actually. But if that's enough to horrify them, then we never hear from those people again, and that suits us just fine. But happily, that doesn't actually happen that often.

 

Thank you for sharing. I'm glad it is not a struggle for you all the time.

 

I know I would have upset if my husband and I planned a night together for just the two of us and someone he WASN'T sleeping with could just arrive and butt in. But you're right - it could happen and we'd just discuss it later as to what to do if it happened again. Maybe it is the same except I wouldn't be mad at my husband for his friend butting in because with someone who is just a friend - I can tell them to let us have our night and we'd hang out later. I think it would be more awkward to have to say that to someone he is sleeping with. And it would make me upset in a different way if HE didn't tell them to leave, because it would put me in the position of appearing jealous and controlling because I had to be the one to say it just so we could have our night alone.

[John Bigboote]

Same with relationships. I can't just go screw some guy because he's hot. I have to control myself because I don't want to hurt someone else in the process.

 

We go to great lengths to ensure that no one is getting hurt. Communication is essential in any relationship, but especially in our kind. That's what "openness" means.

 

I really didn't understand what the entitlement question was all about. I still don't really grok it. How about this: Short of causing pain and hurting other people, I feel entitled to the freedom to live the life that suits me best, not the life that suits others. I feel entitled to live the live I want to live, not the life strangers would have me live.

 

Also self control is a good thing. It's a sign of maturity and teaches people that they can't have anything on this Earth they want without hard work. I can't just go rob a bank because I want some money, I have to work with it.

 

Don't worry, I'm not robbing any banks. But I'm also not depriving myself of any consensual pleasures before I die. Short of harming others, of course.

[sally4sara]

I guess it comes down to....would you choose this type of marriage/relationship for your children? I'm betting that most (almost all) would say no. We all want the best for our kids, and clearly this (almost marriage) isn't it.

 

I have a 13 year old. At one point, a friend said he had a similar personality to one of their cousins that turned out gay. I asked if it was obvious to her when the boy was a 9 year old kid (my son was 9 at the time). She said not really, only that he was polite and nice. I thought about how little being polite and nice is as an identifying quality for gayness, but that it wouldn't bother me if my son ended up gay. I'd only worry about how my religious family would treat him and how his idiot father would likely blame me and not accept it. But beyond that, I wouldn't be disappointed. Now at 13, his orientation is becoming more obvious and sure enough, being polite and nice is not a clear indicator of homosexuality!

 

I don't think its my place to choose what kind of relationships my son ends up having. I only care that he is happy even if it ends up being a poly kind of relationship. I don't choose relationships for others no matter my relation to them and I'd not like it if someone, simply because we were related, tried to dictate the nature of my own relationships.

[John Bigboote]

Thank you for sharing. I'm glad it is not a struggle for you all the time.

 

It's usually the opposite of a struggle--- a wonderful amazing experience, like a relationship is supposed be. This is the relationship we both like the best. We'd be completely miserable in monogamy.

 

Thanks for the thanks. It's hard to share when you know you'll likely be misunderstood, condemned, and derided. I personally don't tilt at this windmill too often. It can get depressing.

[Distant78]

Same with relationships. I can't just go screw some guy because he's hot. I have to control myself because I don't want to hurt someone else in the process.

 

Yet you cheated.

[sally4sara]

It's usually the opposite of a struggle--- a wonderful amazing experience, like a relationship is supposed be. This is the relationship we both like the best. We'd be completely miserable in monogamy.

 

Thanks for the thanks. It's hard to share when you know you'll likely be misunderstood, condemned, and derided. I personally don't tilt at this windmill too often. It can get depressing.

 

Oh! I'm sorry. I will admit to not understanding so far as not feeling it is a relationship style I would be happy with, but I wasn't trying to condemn or deride you. I casually know two couples who practice it and seem happy in their relationships, but I don't know them well enough to pry. I guess this is why. I worry I would accidentally offend them with my naivety. My pardons.

 

Is it because we ask the hard questions and its a serious bring down to have to focus on that stuff more than is relevant to your life?

[John Bigboote]

Oh darn. *I'm* sorry. I wasn't saying I felt misunderstood and derided by you, only that in general that is what one's experience indicates is likely to happen.

[aerogurl87]

Yet you cheated.

 

Yep I sure did and it is the one thing I will regret till the day that I die.

[sally4sara]

Oh darn. *I'm* sorry. I wasn't saying I felt misunderstood and derided by you, only that in general that is what one's experience indicates is likely to happen.

 

Oh good! I much prefer to be insulting on purpose!

[Lovinhimlovinher]

You're probably right about that, Woinlove. I don't possess the necessary self-delusion, dishonesty, selfishness or an impressionable SO to make it work. I used to be a OM in an affair, but I never deluded myself into thinking that I was anything else. BTW, I would be interested in knowing if either you or LHLH were married in a church, if so, you are both fornicators and adulterers, by definition. ( not mine, the churches) NO reputable Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu faith considers "open marriages', as anything other than sin. That whole "forsaking all others", part and the " two shall become one flesh", part would seem to indicate that you are on the wrong track here. Riddle: when is a marriage, not a marriage? When it is an open marriage. But I do thank both of you, for an interesting thread.

 

 

No I was not married in a church. I still don't understant what part of any of this makes you think there is "self-delusion, dishonesty, selfishness" involved.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

To me, I always thought of open marriages as nothing more than consentual adultery. Its the same as cheating, its just that both people know.

 

 

Then how is it cheating?

[Lovinhimlovinher]

Just a question I often wondered. Has there ever been a time since the both of you have been doing this, where either of you might have felt, there were more women or more men on the side than either of you knew about? I know there was some mention of being open and honest, I'm assuming that means letting the other one know about who you are with etc.? Have either of you ever found out there was another person(s) the other one didn't know about? If so, how was that handled?

 

Personally no there hasn't been anyone I haven't known about. We really do talk about everything. The only thing he doesn't have to tell me is if there is someone that he already has permission to be with then he doesn't have to tell me every time he does something with them. I know "normal" people can't understand being 100% open and truthful with each other. There seems to always be that thread of doubt in the back of there minds. I have no doubt at all. Thank you for asking questions and not just pushing your beliefs on us. I don't mind talking about this and education people on the way I live my life. I just get tired of the same things being said over and over again about how My husband and I will fail because we aren't Christian enough or have the "right" morals. Anyway thank you for the question.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

Woinlove, my skepticism is based on three issues. I. That this was a mutually, independently, and enthusiastically agreed-upon situation. I call this delusional bull. One or the other of the couple wanted it and the other ( for whatever reason) agreed to it, in order for the marriage to continue.. 2. The reasons invented to justify it. For example: We have an open marriage, which is better than dishonesty and betrayal. That's like saying, " I have a broken leg. But hey , at least I don't have cancer." The old lesser of two evils argument. 3. The hypocrisy. " We have a perfect, blissful marriage, the sex is wonderful and we are so happy, etc. Oh , BTW we aren't in a real marriage, at all. I/ We changed the rules to suit the dissatisfied (selfish) partner. That's like saying I like tp play poker, but only if I can invent my own rules so that I always win. I believe that a true , loving, and respectful relationship doesn't need benefit of clergy or a marriage license, but it does need complete honesty and fidelity.

 

 

WOW talk about delusional bull. lol

[JustJoe]

I have a 13 year old. At one point, a friend said he had a similar personality to one of their cousins that turned out gay. I asked if it was obvious to her when the boy was a 9 year old kid (my son was 9 at the time). She said not really, only that he was polite and nice. I thought about how little being polite and nice is as an identifying quality for gayness, but that it wouldn't bother me if my son ended up gay. I'd only worry about how my religious family would treat him and how his idiot father would likely blame me and not accept it. But beyond that, I wouldn't be disappointed. Now at 13, his orientation is becoming more obvious and sure enough, being polite and nice is not a clear indicator of homosexuality!

 

I don't think its my place to choose what kind of relationships my son ends up having. I only care that he is happy even if it ends up being a poly kind of relationship. I don't choose relationships for others no matter my relation to them and I'd not like it if someone, simply because we were related, tried to dictate the nature of my own relationships.

Sara, I'm not asking you to choose for you child, I'm asking you to state a preference. You can't influence whether or not your kid uses Drugs in college either, but I'm betting you would try to dissuade him. Just like I am doing here. I can't make any body do anything, but I can point out the obvious hypocrisy and failings of this type of relationship. And state my preference for a monogamous, non-marital relationship.

[JustJoe]

WOW talk about delusional bull. lol

You think so? Then how about answering me. You can PM me if you want.

[sally4sara]

Sara, I'm not asking you to choose for you child, I'm asking you to state a preference. You can't influence whether or not your kid uses Drugs in college either, but I'm betting you would try to dissuade him. Just like I am doing here. I can't make any body do anything, but I can point out the obvious hypocrisy and failings of this type of relationship. And state my preference for a monogamous, non-marital relationship.

 

While I would dissuade him from drugs and encourage him to go to college, those things are done so that he can not be bogged down with the problems inherent with drug use and limited in opportunities for employment WHILE looking for the best relationship for him.

 

It might be hard to imagine, but I see him as an eventual adult more than I see him simply as the child I gave birth to. I wouldn't dream of imposing my relationship standards on him because I don't intend on being so involved in his romantic relationships. He is of my genetics, but he is not of my mind and likely not to be made happy with only my preferences.

 

I don't see the hypocrisy in an all around mutually open relationship; only that it is not what I'd prefer for me.

[JustJoe]

All right , Sara, if you won't state a preference, you won't. It's OK.

[sally4sara]

All right , Sara, if you won't state a preference, you won't. It's OK.

 

Well my preference was to be monogamously married to a man. Wouldn't it be unfair and imposing to expect him to want the same? I had plenty of different options. Remain single, only be with women, move to a state that allows same sex marriage and marry a woman instead for instance. Abstain entirely for personal or religious reasons. Preferring a child of mine to do as I do would be unfair since I got to choose what I chose to do and ignored the other options I could have taken.

 

I guess I'm saying live your own life as you will. Others can and will do the same. Really how beneficial to you or them is it to judge how valid a life you won't be living really is? Barring instances lacking in consent of course....

[JackJack]

Bottom line, its about wanting different d*cks and p*ssy's. Its not about finding real friendships or emotional attachments although I'm sure that happens, but the real basis behind it all is more and different sexual partners. Kind of like, "I love you, and the sex with you is hot, BUT not hot enough for me to just stick with you, but hey ya got my love and we're good friends too!":D I understand. Whatever one wants.

Edited December 20, 2010 by JackJack