Open Marriage and very happy

[JustJoe]

I've repeatedly stated that everybody is free to choose what they will, and that is their right.. But anytime I see something I feel is wrong, I will speak out, and that is MY right, too. I have seen quite a few of these open marriages. They are surprisingly common in the Armed Forces, as alternatives to celibacy during deployments, I suppose. I have never seen one last. Either they will resume exclusivity after their return or they will end in very messy divorces. No matter how much they try to say that theirs is different, it, IME, always ends up causing more problems, than it solves.

[JustJoe]

Bottom line, its about wanting different d*cks and p*ssy's. Its not about finding real friendships or emotional attachments although I'm sure that happens, but the real basis behind it all is more and different sexual partners. Kind of like, "I love you, and the sex with you is hot, BUT not hot enough for me to just stick with you, but hey ya got my love and we're good friends too!":D I understand. Whatever one wants.

Yep, you got my love and friendship, but only up to a point. If you tell me to stop effing other guys/gals, then the cr*p will really hit the fan. Just a Joke. Edited December 20, 2010 by JustJoe

[creighton0123]

Simply put, and I didn't make the rules...Marriage is sacred, Holy, and designed solely for one man and one women to share their entire lives together...

 

Meh. My boyfriend and I both tend to disagree with this one. Marriage has meant so many things throughout history. One man, one woman, two men, two women, monogamous, non-monogamous, simple exchange of property for spouse, social announcement of mutual love and dedication. Marriage is recognized in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Paganism, Hinduism, Buddhism, atheism, etc. etc. etc.

 

For some, marriage is religious/sacramental. For others, it is purely secular.

 

"To each their own" is a good turn of phrase. What significance you place on your marriage, especially when grounded in your personal beliefs, cannot be applicable to others who have different beliefs and values.

[JustJoe]

I agree with this, just don't try to schmooz me. BTW, did you just eat a habanero pepper?

[creighton0123]

I think you are factually wrong about that. I was under the impression that romantic marriage is a relatively modern idea and expectation.

 

Well, the modern, Western/American template of marriage is strikingly similar to the Roman plebeian form. Among Plebeians, marriage was monogamous (unlike in other surrounding cultures, such as late ancient Jewish culture). It created and established order in Plebeian homes mostly centered around love, romance, and child rearing. Even the white veil/dress and the relative establishment of a woman as "equal" derives from Roman culture. In fact, in upper class scenarios, woman were often granted complete authority over the planning of her husband's social life.

 

You can look at mostly any culture throughout history and see that the romantic marriage ideal derives from the working/poor class, where there were little spare resources to exchange.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

I've often wondered how people arrive at the decision myself.

Such as having a series of relationships that go bust because you can't remain faithful or they couldn't remain faithful so the decision is one where they just decide to not bother with that boundary because they either can't live up to it or have come to believe no one can live up to it?

 

Or maybe there are just people who don't respond with jealousy at the thought of their partner being with someone else? What would you even call the opposite of jealousy? At ease? Secure? But is it ever "my partner is off screwing someone else YIPPEE"? I can't imagine that. Maybe everything else is working so well, they figure a little extramarital sex isn't the end of the world?

 

I could see that, but I can't imagine it would ever be something that would make them happy to have going on - just something they decide they can tolerate for all the other good stuff in the relationship? I just wonder if it eventually it begins to eat at them? Like they thought it wouldn't be a big deal but after so many years, they need meds or counseling to not obsess about it going on?

 

I think of the things that make it obvious to others that my husband and I are a couple. The inside jokes. The way we communicate much with few words and subtle touch. I wouldn't even begin to know how to let someone else in like that and still feel so connected to my husband. Most of the time you can tell if a couple is together. And it would burn me if he was developing that same closeness to someone else; different inside jokes I wouldn't understand and that other people would confuse who of us was his partner.

Plus it just seems to me that there would be so many more rules to this relationship style causing twice or more ways to hurt each other because some of the situations just wouldn't come up unless that venue was believed to be available to you. I read "I didn't expect I'd end up having these feelings for them" in the affair forum and I always think "why didn't you just not put yourself in that situation? But in this kind of relationship, you'd ALWAYS be putting yourself in that situation!

 

 

As abnormal as all of this sounds this will sound way off to you but I enjoy seeing him with other women. I enjoy seeing him make them happy or satisfy them in bed. I can't help it.

 

As far as the standard couple

I think of the things that make it obvious to others that my husband and I are a couple. The inside jokes. The way we communicate much with few words and subtle touch. I wouldn't even begin to know how to let someone else in like that and still feel so connected to my husband. Most of the time you can tell if a couple is together. And it would burn me if he was developing that same closeness to someone else; different inside jokes I wouldn't understand and that other people would confuse who of us was his partner.

 

When we go out as the three of us I don't expect him to only hold my hand or only tell me he loves me. When we go out I expect him to treat us both the way he should with love and respect. I don't care what other people think of us. I know that we are happy and that is truly all that matters. Some professionals feel as though people like me are hardwired for this kind of life. I don't know it that is true or not but I can't imagine what life will be like if his girlfriend wasn't around anymore. I have grown attached to her as well.

 

The only real set in stone rules we have are this: Be honest, be safe, follow your heart and communicate, communicate, communicate. Everything else we will work out as we go. That is how life should be in my opinion. Do what makes you happy, who cares what other think. They aren't the ones living your life.

[creighton0123]

To me, I always thought of open marriages as nothing more than consentual adultery. Its the same as cheating, its just that both people know.

 

Kendrick,

 

I'll preface this by saying that I firmly follow and believe in the significance of monogamy between me and my partner. However, applications of words like "adultery" and "cheating" places the relationships of other couples in a cultural/belief system that they may not identify with.

 

For example, in cultures (mostly modern) who place zero weight or significance on fornication still a society of fornicators? Surely not. Another example...

 

In India, it is extremely disrespectful and considered unclean to show someone your foot (like you would do if you cross your legs or put your ankle up on your knee). In America or Europe, is the same thing considered disrespectful/unclean? Surely not.

 

Subjectivity is rank in this thread. I've always been one to encourage an open mind.

 

The only problem I see with the OP is if either her or her husband grow tired of sustaining extra-marital relationships and fall into the mindset of the monogamous paradigm... that can create conflict if one partner decides they now want to be monogamous.

[JustJoe]

I agree with this too. You understand LHLH, that I, in no way feel superior to you or would I ever be in favor of your right to live as you choose, being take from you. We dissagree, but we can live with that dissagreement.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

Well then maybe you can answer my questions in this?

 

Are you ever made happy when your partner goes off to have sex with someone else? Or is it just an "oh well, I'll catch up with them later" and you try to put it out of your mind kind of thing? Ever been around your partner and their other and felt out of the loop or that they were not as aligned with you as you believed? Ever experienced a moment during socialization where your were treated oddly because they met your partner's other first and believed THAT was their spouse - not you? What did that feel like?

 

I would also like to answer this if you don't mind.

 

It really does make me happy when he goes out to have sex with someone else. I am not sure why but I know if given the time i will be the one to make sure he has something to wear and looks nice. I made the hotel reservations for my H and his lover just this last weekend as a Christmas gift to the two of them.

 

No I have never felt out of the loop. My husband is very good at making sure we both feel the same loving devotion. While the love is different because she is a different person it doesn't make it more or less. I love my husband and loves the fact that he has had the opportunity to fall in love again. Who doesn't love that wonderful feeling when you fall in deep love with someone? It is something he never thought he would feel again. Nothing that we planned for but life and love have a way of working out for the better.

[sally4sara]

As abnormal as all of this sounds this will sound way off to you but I enjoy seeing him with other women. I enjoy seeing him make them happy or satisfy them in bed. I can't help it.

 

As far as the standard couple

 

 

When we go out as the three of us I don't expect him to only hold my hand or only tell me he loves me. When we go out I expect him to treat us both the way he should with love and respect. I don't care what other people think of us. I know that we are happy and that is truly all that matters. Some professionals feel as though people like me are hardwired for this kind of life. I don't know it that is true or not but I can't imagine what life will be like if his girlfriend wasn't around anymore. I have grown attached to her as well.

 

The only real set in stone rules we have are this: Be honest, be safe, follow your heart and communicate, communicate, communicate. Everything else we will work out as we go. That is how life should be in my opinion. Do what makes you happy, who cares what other think. They aren't the ones living your life.

 

Is all this reflective of how it works with your BF too? Your husband has become attached to him in the same way and there is no contention between them? Your husband derives joy in some way from knowing you are receiving love and sexual satisfaction with your BF and even enjoys seeing you two together? I'm sorry if its too personal; I'm just curious if you are unique in this or if feeling this way is what makes poly/open work for some couples; without it, maybe it would be the problematic situation us monogamous folks think it would be?

[elaina]

Hello OP,

 

Well, if that is what you want in a marriage, I'm happy for you.

 

That is not what I want in my marriage when I get married, no thanks! I do not want to share my husband with anyone else in that way, nor do I want to be shared with anyone else. So, open marriages would not work for me, because that is not what I want in a marriage or in a sexual relationship.

 

Every marriage takes work, commitment, and it really helps when what people want and their expectations coincide and the couple understands each other.

 

I would not even consider for a second someone who wants an open marriage, but I am not anybody's judge. If you are happy like that, then that's between you and everybody else in your relationship. I am happy being just me and my man.

Edited December 20, 2010 by elaina

[Kendrick]

Two people would definatley have to be on the same page for sure. Whether its an open relationship or not.

 

For me, I think if I were in a marriage or relationship where my partner made the suggestion of being in a open relationship I would end it. I'm not into that. Plus if I knew thats what he wanted, it would make me feel like a piece of used crap.

 

It doesn't matter if we shared a home and he came home to just me at night. If we shared dinner together and bills, took vacations and bought things, sat and talked like we're best friends etc etc, the list goes on. If he wanted to go make a deposit in another woman and me as well, and wanted me to be a deposit box for another man, well that not gonna happen. But for those who like the lifestyle and it works for you, and you don't feel used, go for it.

[aerogurl87]

Kendrick,

 

I'll preface this by saying that I firmly follow and believe in the significance of monogamy between me and my partner. However, applications of words like "adultery" and "cheating" places the relationships of other couples in a cultural/belief system that they may not identify with.

 

For example, in cultures (mostly modern) who place zero weight or significance on fornication still a society of fornicators? Surely not. Another example...

 

In India, it is extremely disrespectful and considered unclean to show someone your foot (like you would do if you cross your legs or put your ankle up on your knee). In America or Europe, is the same thing considered disrespectful/unclean? Surely not.

 

Subjectivity is rank in this thread. I've always been one to encourage an open mind.

 

The only problem I see with the OP is if either her or her husband grow tired of sustaining extra-marital relationships and fall into the mindset of the monogamous paradigm... that can create conflict if one partner decides they now want to be monogamous.

 

No adultery has a pretty easy definition. It's having emotional or physical intimacy with someone who isn't your spouse. An open marriage is where two people commit adultery with the consent of their spouse. Even if they're ok with it, it's still adultery.

[sally4sara]

I really only struggle to accept the "we're so happy this way" in these relationships when the option is only available to one half of the couple or if say, the woman can step out too but only with women while the man isn't expected to only be with men. That is when I perceive it to be a control issue and one designed to make one partner accept exactly what the other cannot. Like if a wife were to say "I want an "other" but you must only be with me or as a threesome with them included with us". Or a man who can't be satisfied with only one woman and gets all preachy on the fundie mormon tip. A husband who figures since his wife is bi she must be fine with whatever female he finds appealing as the "other" to them both.

That is when I begin to smell a rat.

[creighton0123]

No adultery has a pretty easy definition. It's having emotional or physical intimacy with someone who isn't your spouse. An open marriage is where two people commit adultery with the consent of their spouse. Even if they're ok with it, it's still adultery.

 

Yes, that's what it means in our culture. However, adultery doesn't necessarily transition to other cultures.

 

There is a culture in Asia (island culture) where the wife marries into the family and has children with each brother from oldest to youngest, despite what brother is her husband. Is that adultery? No. That construct doesn't exist in said culture.

 

There are other cultures where polygyny is legal. Is sex with a second wife adultery? Surely not - the construct is different.

 

The paradigm of adultery doesn't necessarily exist in open relationships. To apply it to open relationships creates a contextual fallacy.

[aerogurl87]

Yes, that's what it means in our culture. However, adultery doesn't necessarily transition to other cultures.

 

There is a culture in Asia (island culture) where the wife marries into the family and has children with each brother from oldest to youngest, despite what brother is her husband. Is that adultery? No. That construct doesn't exist in said culture.

 

There are other cultures where polygyny is legal. Is sex with a second wife adultery? Surely not - the construct is different.

 

The paradigm of adultery doesn't necessarily exist in open relationships. To apply it to open relationships creates a contextual fallacy.

 

She marries into the family so the set of brothers are part of the marriage arrangement, making it not adultery. As for polygamous marriages, if the man (or woman) is married to more than one person and having sex with all their spouses, then no that is not adultery. But if your only married to one person and screwing your lover whom you are not married to, it's adultery. It's a very simple concept and yes adultery does exist in open marriages. Relationships, no as you can't commit adultery if you're not married to the person you're with. But if you go and vow to enter into the arrangement of marriage with only one person and then step out on that arrangement later with someone who isn't your spouse, I don't care if both of you agree to it or not, it's still adultery.

[sally4sara]

She marries into the family so the set of brothers are part of the marriage arrangement, making it not adultery. As for polygamous marriages, if the man (or woman) is married to more than one person and having sex with all their spouses, then no that is not adultery. But if your only married to one person and screwing your lover whom you are not married to, it's adultery. It's a very simple concept and yes adultery does exist in open marriages. Relationships, no as you can't commit adultery if you're not married to the person you're with. But if you go and vow to enter into the arrangement of marriage with only one person and then step out on that arrangement later with someone who isn't your spouse, I don't care if both of you agree to it or not, it's still adultery.

 

What if their ceremony did not include vows of monogamy? People write their own vows now and even the standard of marital vows has changed. We don't pledge to OBEY anymore for instance.

[woinlove]

She marries into the family so the set of brothers are part of the marriage arrangement, making it not adultery. As for polygamous marriages, if the man (or woman) is married to more than one person and having sex with all their spouses, then no that is not adultery. But if your only married to one person and screwing your lover whom you are not married to, it's adultery. It's a very simple concept and yes adultery does exist in open marriages. Relationships, no as you can't commit adultery if you're not married to the person you're with. But if you go and vow to enter into the arrangement of marriage with only one person and then step out on that arrangement later with someone who isn't your spouse, I don't care if both of you agree to it or not, it's still adultery.

 

The legal definition of adultery varies. Where I live, adultery only enters as a legal concept in divorce law, which explicitly states that it is not considered adultery if it is condoned by the other spouse. Specifically, it is legally not considered adultery if there is an open marriage where consent is given for extramarital relations.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

You think so? Then how about answering me. You can PM me if you want.

 

I am not sure what questions I haven't answered. How do I PM someone?

[John Bigboote]

But if you go and vow to enter into the arrangement of marriage with only one person

 

I personally never did, and never would make such a vow. I take my vows and promises that seriously. Nor would I ever accept such a vow.

 

I don't care if both of you agree to it or not, it's still adultery.

So rules are more important than joy and fulfillment? People in a relationship aren't allowed to define it for themselves?

[Lovinhimlovinher]

Is all this reflective of how it works with your BF too? Your husband has become attached to him in the same way and there is no contention between them? Your husband derives joy in some way from knowing you are receiving love and sexual satisfaction with your BF and even enjoys seeing you two together? I'm sorry if its too personal; I'm just curious if you are unique in this or if feeling this way is what makes poly/open work for some couples; without it, maybe it would be the problematic situation us monogamous folks think it would be?

 

 

Yes this works both ways. He enjoys seeing me pleasure someone else as well as being pleasured. I am sure this isn't with all open marriages but it works well for us. I know all of this is strange and foreign to almost everyone on here but I don't mind telling people these things so maybe they can understand where I am coming from. I do not suggest this lifestyle to anyone. EVER. It isn't something you can talk our friends into. It will not work for the majority of couples. Thank you for asking.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

Hello OP,

 

Well, if that is what you want in a marriage, I'm happy for you.

 

That is not what I want in my marriage when I get married, no thanks! I do not want to share my husband with anyone else in that way, nor do I want to be shared with anyone else. So, open marriages would not work for me, because that is not what I want in a marriage or in a sexual relationship.

 

Every marriage takes work, commitment, and it really helps when what people want and their expectations coincide and the couple understands each other.

 

I would not even consider for a second someone who wants an open marriage, but I am not anybody's judge. If you are happy like that, then that's between you and everybody else in your relationship. I am happy being just me and my man.

 

 

Yes it isn't for most people. I am happy that you guys are a happy couple. All relationships have a set of problems that come with it. Ours just have a different set of concerns.

[Distant78]

Yep I sure did and it is the one thing I will regret till the day that I die.

 

Regret but not feel remorse about.

[Distant78]

Point blank, these open marriages are just a label for having strange d*ck and p*ssy with their partner knowing, and none of these couples walk around like they're so happy about it. It's why the should've never started in the first place because "jealousy" ensues and when one partner wants to stop, the other will just sleep with other people behind their backs. It's just for sex.

[desertIslandCactus]

There are always innocents involved in Everything we do. Even the woman who is going down the freeway in the fast lane at slow speed on cell phone while putting on her mascara - those around her are involved.

 

Even if I said: I hope there are only married people involved so a more vulnerable single person wouldn't be hurt. Still there are the children, who are more alert than we know .. even if it's not being expressed: Mama's going on a date, daddy's going out. Not to mention the siblings this could produce. ha

 

So mama and poppa wish to have a more interesting life - for themselves and to each other - and are USING others to do so. A pretty pathetic twosome who require all this attention.

 

Regardless, you are taking away from the Stability that is Meant for family life. ..