Open Marriage and very happy

[Lovinhimlovinher]

John, I wasn't singling you out specifically, it was a general question. What I meant is that you (pl) who are in "open marriages", will tell us of how liberating, sensual, and mind-f**kingly good, "open marriages", are, but then , as if to re-assure us monagamous types,go to great lengths to show how you (pl) aren't really any different from us and that you are good clean -living taxpayers and not weirdos. Why is that? Because you all know that it isn't acceptible behavior.

 

 

I personally start doing that because you guys have made it clear that you feel that way about us and we are trying to get you to understand us a little better. Best way to do that is with association. If you can start to associated us with a "normal" life than maybe you would understand us a little better.

[JustJoe]

So we have established that Poly relationships are of questionable value sexually, are borderline illegal throughout most of the world, are basically dishonest (if they were honest, you could reveal them to anybody) are disrespectful to the partners( who may or may not be enthusiatic), and are almost universally condemned by most religious, political, social leaders, scientific and mental-health professionals, and pretty much everyone else. GEE....sounds great!! I'm not trying to bust you guys chops or anything, I'm just trying to get you to realize that perhaps...just perhaps..... this isn't a good idea and that maybe you should spend more of your free time nurturing one relationship at a time, instead of being part-time Spouses.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

I have been following this thread with interest and, as I said on the 'closed' marriage thread, I don't understand the concept of an open marriage. However, I make no judgement because I believe in 'live and let live'.

 

What I would like to comment on is this one paragraph I've highlighted because to me it indicates that those involved in an open lifestyle do not understand our view any more than we do theirs. You seem to be suggesting that what you have is better ie 'you can't have it all' and yet, in my mind, you are the ones who are missing something.

 

 

 

I understand what you are saying and I agree I was being short sided in that post. I didn't word it the way I wanted to at all. I understand your views as they were mine for many years. I know most people don't even have the desire to live like this. I didn't mean to talk in general I was thinking more along the lines of people who will lie and cheat instead of being honest. Thank you for bringing this up. I will be more careful in how I word things from now on.

[JustJoe]

BTW, is the plural of "spouse", "spouses", or "spice"? Just a little (very Little) marital humor.

[JustJoe]

A little something for the swingers, polys and others , "getting it on the side". Great tune.

[JackJack]

A little something for the swingers, polys and others , "getting it on the side". Great tune.

 

:laugh:

[Lovinhimlovinher]

So we have established that Poly relationships are of questionable value sexually, are borderline illegal throughout most of the world,

 

 

I don't agree with this. But thank you for your opinion.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Lovinhimlovinher

[sally4sara]

So we have established that Poly relationships are of questionable value sexually, are borderline illegal throughout most of the world, are basically dishonest (if they were honest, you could reveal them to anybody) are disrespectful to the partners( who may or may not be enthusiatic), and are almost universally condemned by most religious, political, social leaders, scientific and mental-health professionals, and pretty much everyone else. GEE....sounds great!! I'm not trying to bust you guys chops or anything, I'm just trying to get you to realize that perhaps...just perhaps..... this isn't a good idea and that maybe you should spend more of your free time nurturing one relationship at a time, instead of being part-time Spouses.

 

Well not every monogamous relationship is high value sexually. Lots of threads on LS talk about sexual dissatisfaction in their monogamous relationships. So I think its pretty safe to say that neither guarantee a high sexual value.

I'm not sure how here in the states, a court would go about prosecuting the people involved in a swinger/poly situation if all were consenting and it didn't include polygamy even if they all cohabitated.

And calling them dishonest when they might face punishment (by people not in the relationship) for being honest is a catch-22. The blame for the dishonesty would rest on those who couldn't deal with the honesty if they were not part of the relationship.

If only one of the partners was happy about the situation while the other was not so much - same deal as a monogamous one with any point of contention. Such as he fritters money away while she values frugality or she thinks spanking is proper child rearing and he doesn't. He thinks Green Acres is the place to be while she thinks NY is where she'd rather stay.

 

And religious? Well lots of flavors in that variety pack and they all seem to condemn each other even among the monogamy crowd.

 

I'm atheist. I'm a skeptical socialist/communist (meaning the larger the community, the less likely I believe it will work). I don't censor much from my son. I get condemnation from all the same groups you listed despite my lifestyle choice being monogamy. I didn't choose it to please anyone but me and my partner, or to serve any values other than the ones we hold. I didn't do it to impress anyone or to gain the respect of anyone.

 

In the end, I don't care what my neighbors are doing as long as they don't do it in my home or expect something of me to continue doing whatever it is they do. They could be having a flipping orgy and hanging from the ceiling fan by hooks while a midget on a donkey whips their behinds for all I care. It doesn't keep me from living how I want. If their marriage falls apart or lasts till they both die - it effects my marriage and my life not at all. And if their marriage falls apart, I won't be getting some personal satisfaction out of their divorce anymore than I would when a monogamous couple split up.

 

I enjoyed this thread because people shared views I'm not curious enough to test out for myself. That is enough for me; I don't need to change their minds or see them on to living the way I do. I already knew and accepted that not everyone lives the way I do.

[sally4sara]

Yeah, I'm sitting here and wondering how these sentences would ever be filled in:

 

I tried to (fill in the blank) the other day and I couldn't because of all the damn poly people!

 

I was told I have to (fill in the blank) because I'm not a swinger.

[LittleTiger]

I understand what you are saying and I agree I was being short sided in that post. I didn't word it the way I wanted to at all. I understand your views as they were mine for many years. I know most people don't even have the desire to live like this. I didn't mean to talk in general I was thinking more along the lines of people who will lie and cheat instead of being honest. Thank you for bringing this up. I will be more careful in how I word things from now on.

 

Thank you for the clarification on this. Unfortunately the sentence in bold has confused me more than ever.

 

I am old enough and experienced enough to know what options are out there and I have tried many types of romantic and sexual relationships. My experience has taught me what I enjoy and what brings me the most pleasure and the most satisfaction - emotionally and sexually.

 

I am completely open minded about what others choose to do, provided nobody is getting hurt. I have no religious barriers and nobody judges my lifestyle or behaviour, including myself. In relationship terms, I can have whatever I want to have and I will always choose monogamy.

 

What I share with my current partner has exceeded every hope or expectation I ever had regarding love, sex and intimacy. I have it all. So how can somebody who has experienced this, ever choose anything different? Why would they choose anything different? It makes no sense to me.

 

If you've ever experienced the kind of relationship I describe, I can't even begin to fathom how you ended up in a 'happy open marriage'. How you could possibly choose this over a 'happy monogamous marriage'?

 

If your views were the same as mine for many years, how did they change so dramatically?

[Lovinhimlovinher]

Thank you for the clarification on this. Unfortunately the sentence in bold has confused me more than ever.

 

I am old enough and experienced enough to know what options are out there and I have tried many types of romantic and sexual relationships. My experience has taught me what I enjoy and what brings me the most pleasure and the most satisfaction - emotionally and sexually.

 

I am completely open minded about what others choose to do, provided nobody is getting hurt. I have no religious barriers and nobody judges my lifestyle or behaviour, including myself. In relationship terms, I can have whatever I want to have and I will always choose monogamy.

 

What I share with my current partner has exceeded every hope or expectation I ever had regarding love, sex and intimacy. I have it all. So how can somebody who has experienced this, ever choose anything different? Why would they choose anything different? It makes no sense to me.

 

If you've ever experienced the kind of relationship I describe, I can't even begin to fathom how you ended up in a 'happy open marriage'. How you could possibly choose this over a 'happy monogamous marriage'?

 

If your views were the same as mine for many years, how did they change so dramatically?

 

 

All of my previous relationships have been monogamist. The first couple years of my marriage were too and we were very happy. Our relationship evolved, in the beginning it was just to add so spice or fun and has since changed. I really don't know how to explain what I mean. Thank you for at least being open minded about it all. I hope everyone had a great Christmas and thank you to all who has posted their opinions.

[Donutman]

God bless you,

I'm new to the site and have been looking through postings and this is one of the first I've found that admits there are positive sides to being honest with your spouse and enjoying life and all it has to offer TOGETHER

 

many people here don't seem to grasp that

 

I applaud you for being able to see the big picture...that good things shared with each other become even better

 

I wish you continued happiness

[Toodamnpragmatic]

God bless you,

I'm new to the site and have been looking through postings and this is one of the first I've found that admits there are positive sides to being honest with your spouse and enjoying life and all it has to offer TOGETHER

 

many people here don't seem to grasp that

 

I applaud you for being able to see the big picture...that good things shared with each other become even better

 

I wish you continued happiness

 

only looking for those who will agree with you and your dilemma/situation..... Not necessarily wrong or a terrible trait, just a little one-sided.

 

Donutman, you have decided you want an open relationship and seem troubled when people say otherwise and question your motives and actions.

[gisellefromhell]

only looking for those who will agree with you and your dilemma/situation..... Not necessarily wrong or a terrible trait, just a little one-sided.

 

Donutman, you have decided you want an open relationship and seem troubled when people say otherwise and question your motives and actions.

 

I actually didn't get that at all from Donutman's reply. I think he IS pro-open marriage, but he's not using the positivity of this particular thread for his own issues. He's merely saying that he's glad someone else thinks an open marriage works.

[Holding-On]

OP, Lovin and especially John Bigfoote (laughed out loud and found you very very articulate though certainly not hostile) thank you for sharing. I do not know how 25+ years counts as a short term marriage doomed to failure but I will jump in and add my count to a happy married person in an open marriage though I have been married a mere 15 or so years.

If my legal, agnostic marriage fails it will not be because of it always being open (and vows written to say so). In fact the emotional strength given to us by the other couples we have loved has helped us stay together through many a bad time (caused by personal defects not sexual incompatibility or jealousy).

 

One question that was never answered was "why marry at all?"

Like gay people can tell you (who are also illegal in many parts of the world and most religions), legal marriage comes with many benefits and unspoken conveniences particularly with regard to property, children, death/serious injury decisions, funeral rites being preserved, legally not having to take the stand against your spouse and being able to get them a green card.

Joe, try moving to another country and bringing your GF. Go into a coma or die and see how much power she has to ensure your wishes are met.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

Dear OP, I must say I would never be able to live the way you do. Lets just say I have been emotionally degraded everyday by my sister until she moved out when I was 17. As a result, I have dirt low self esteem. Im not fat, and I have been told that im drop dead gorgeous. But I look in the mirror and see a disgusting, worthless slug. So if my fiance wanted an open relationship, I would think I wasnt good enough. Thankfully he wouldnt want me sleeping w/ someone else either. I wonder if you every thought about what would happen if the other girl your husband loves becomes jealous and doesnt want him with you and if he says he wont choose and she leaves he could end up hating you for it, maybe he chooses her and leaves you or if she wants a real marriage w/ papers. Would your husband want to divorce you (but stay together) and marry her because he doesnt want to lose her. Or have you thought about if they have a baby together and she doesnt want you to be a part of the baby's life. Then you wouldnt be a real family like you mentioned earlier in the thread. What would you think and do? And dont say you would deal with it if it happens. Imagine it happening in your mind and tell me deep down how would you feel. Another thing what if she starts to hate you because of the time your H spends with you. Just something to think about.

 

 

These are all things we have not only thought of but discussed together. I admit I worry about all of this my self. I know she reads this thread so if she makes it this far into the post I hope that she would put her two cents in too.

 

I wonder if you every thought about what would happen if the other girl your husband loves becomes jealous and doesnt want him with you and if he says he wont choose and she leaves he could end up hating you for it, maybe he chooses her and leaves you or if she wants a real marriage w/ papers. Would your husband want to divorce you (but stay together) and marry her because he doesnt want to lose her.

 

I know that this is real life and we can't "know" for sure that our life will turn out the way we want. We have talked about this and as it stands she knows he will never leave me. We are all worried that she won't be able to see my H and I together with out being jealous. Of course there are concerns. I wont pretend there aren't but I prey that she never feels this way. I feel like she is a part of our family and deserves all of the happiness. I don't think she would ever do anything like this just because she is a great person with soooo many wonderful traits.

 

Or have you thought about if they have a baby together and she doesnt want you to be a part of the baby's life. Then you wouldnt be a real family like you mentioned earlier in the thread. What would you think and do?

 

I would be hurt if that happened. I hope they do have babies one day I know she really wants kids. In an ideal world she would live with us and we would be one big family but if she can't handle seeing us together and happy then I will feel like I failed somehow. My H and I have talked about this. If that is the case then they would have to have a separate house and a schedule. This is not what I want but all relationships are made of compromise. If she didn't want me to help raise her children then they would still be a part of our lives and bonded to us for life. All we can do is continually talk about what we are feeling and work through it. I have a feeling in my gut that we will be dealing with the baby issue sooner than expected. I don't have any insight into this just a gut feeling. Thank you for asking these questions. I enjoy it just because what if you guys think of something I haven't yet. This particular case we have but fresh thoughts are always welcomed.

 

The last question......It would truly break my heart if she ever grew to hate me for any reason. She is a special person and will always be in my heart. I will look at the positives and work on the negative aspects of this relationship. I guess that is all any of us can do.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

OP, Lovin and especially John Bigfoote (laughed out loud and found you very very articulate though certainly not hostile) thank you for sharing. I do not know how 25+ years counts as a short term marriage doomed to failure but I will jump in and add my count to a happy married person in an open marriage though I have been married a mere 15 or so years.

If my legal, agnostic marriage fails it will not be because of it always being open (and vows written to say so). In fact the emotional strength given to us by the other couples we have loved has helped us stay together through many a bad time (caused by personal defects not sexual incompatibility or jealousy).

 

One question that was never answered was "why marry at all?"

Like gay people can tell you (who are also illegal in many parts of the world and most religions), legal marriage comes with many benefits and unspoken conveniences particularly with regard to property, children, death/serious injury decisions, funeral rites being preserved, legally not having to take the stand against your spouse and being able to get them a green card.

Joe, try moving to another country and bringing your GF. Go into a coma or die and see how much power she has to ensure your wishes are met.

 

 

Thank you for your kind words. It is hard to find people who have already been through the things I am going through. i wish i could find an online support group. Also I really thought that I had answered the question "why marry at all". My answer is simple I love my husband. We didn't even talk about opening up our marriage for a couple of years after we were married. I can't imagine my life with out my husband and yes I guess now looking back the legal aspect is good too but honestly I would have been fine getting married outside in a clearing in the woods by someone who loves us. The legal thing is just a plus.

 

I want to also comment on what you said here:

 

If my legal, agnostic marriage fails it will not be because of it always being open (and vows written to say so). In fact the emotional strength given to us by the other couples we have loved has helped us stay together through many a bad time (caused by personal defects not sexual incompatibility or jealousy).

 

I just love how a lot of people will assume that if there is a problem with your marriage that it must have something to do with it being open. I mean really, what other possible reasn could there be for a marriage to have rough patches. "Normal" marriages NEVER have problems, right? lol

[Lovinhimlovinher]

only looking for those who will agree with you and your dilemma/situation..... Not necessarily wrong or a terrible trait, just a little one-sided.

 

Donutman, you have decided you want an open relationship and seem troubled when people say otherwise and question your motives and actions.

 

 

WOW where did you get this from? Your name does certainly suits you.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

God bless you,

I'm new to the site and have been looking through postings and this is one of the first I've found that admits there are positive sides to being honest with your spouse and enjoying life and all it has to offer TOGETHER

 

many people here don't seem to grasp that

 

I applaud you for being able to see the big picture...that good things shared with each other become even better

 

I wish you continued happiness

 

 

Thank you for your kindness. I wish there were more people in this world like you.

[Stung]

WOW where did you get this from? Your name does certainly suits you.

 

I don't always agree with TDP, but I think he got that particular read on Donutman from the fact that D has his own thread in this forum about how he wants to open up his marriage even though his wife has already tried it and told him she's not comfortable or happy with that, and he admits he is making them both miserable. You actually commented in his thread and told him it was a bad idea in his case, if I recall correctly.

[JustJoe]

Thank you for your kindness. I wish there were more people in this world like you.

LHLH, openmindedness doesn't imply acceptance or validation. I've heard your reasoning, and it does not ring true. If a marriage is as wonderful and if you love your husband so much, what prompted the change? Because it's fun? I seriously doubt that good marriages are built on foundations of sexual gratification, alone. So if there is no sexual dis-function in at least one of you, there is no need for others players. You don't take medicine, if your'e not sick, you don't bury people, unless they are dead, You don't change a wonderful marriage unless there is something wrong. It wouldn't occur to happily married people. You are giving us the Cinderella version, but not the real reasons. With all due respect, I'm not buying it.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

I don't always agree with TDP, but I think he got that particular read on Donutman from the fact that D has his own thread in this forum about how he wants to open up his marriage even though his wife has already tried it and told him she's not comfortable or happy with that, and he admits he is making them both miserable. You actually commented in his thread and told him it was a bad idea in his case, if I recall correctly.

 

 

 

ahhhh thank you I am bad with names.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

LHLH, openmindedness doesn't imply acceptance or validation. I've heard your reasoning, and it does not ring true. If a marriage is as wonderful and if you love your husband so much, what prompted the change? Because it's fun? I seriously doubt that good marriages are built on foundations of sexual gratification, alone. So if there is no sexual dis-function in at least one of you, there is no need for others players. You don't take medicine, if your'e not sick, you don't bury people, unless they are dead, You don't change a wonderful marriage unless there is something wrong. It wouldn't occur to happily married people. You are giving us the Cinderella version, but not the real reasons. With all due respect, I'm not buying it.

 

 

I understand that you can't grasp my way of thinking. However just because you don't understand it doesn't mean I am not being truthful. It just means that I am different than you that's all.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

Just want to clarify something here. I am not saying that my marriage is perfect. We have all of the normal ups and downs. Only once did we have a fight regarding this lifestyle. There was a time a couple of years ago when things got rocky, between money and my husband had been laid off an unable to find work. We did stop seeing anyone else during this time just so problems couldn't arise from it. However once things were good again we kinda picked up right where we left off. People can't understand why we would go outside of our marriage if everything was fine. What I am trying to get across here is you should NEVER get involved in this lifestyle if there is something wrong. If you do not have a strong steady foundation then it probably will not work out well for you. I know it is hard to understand for most people I just don't know how to explain it any better.

[JustJoe]

I understand that you can't grasp my way of thinking. However just because you don't understand it doesn't mean I am not being truthful. It just means that I am different than you that's all.

LHLH, this post is condescending. I am fully able to "grasp", the intricacies of open marriages, and contrary to what you might think, have no difficulty in understanding the spoken or written word. I don't insult your intelligence, don't insult mine.