Open Marriage and very happy

[Lovinhimlovinher]

My main point is still un-answered. If there is no sexual/emotional dissatisfaction in the marriage, then why is this happening? There is no such thing as a spontaneous "open marriage", nothing happens in a vacuum. Woinlove was at least honest about her being the person in her marriage to first bring up the idea of having sex with other people, so presumably she was the one who was dissatisfied. The others, lovinghimlovingher and John Big Boote (great movie, BTW) haven't addressed this question. Also, the idea that having sex with other people will somehow improve sex within the marriage, means that the sex with the marriage is somehow lacking. If it ain't broke, why fix it? This idea is ludicrous. More sex doesn't equal better sex. If it did , prostitutes would be having the best sex ever. By that rationale, The more McDonald's hamburgers you eat, the better the quality they have. There are just too many incongruities in this "open marriage", business. It doesn't ring true. IDK any of these people, nor their true stories, but If I were them, I would try to re-commit to my spouse, and so avoid the train wreck that seems to be coming their way.

 

 

I was the first one to bring up the subject of bringing in a female to our bed. I was young, curious we are both very sexual people. Hell at the time we first talked about this we had already been married for a couple of years. It isn't like we went into our marriage thinking we would do this. Regardless though I would have married him anyway because he was and always will be right for me. To answer your first main question, BECAUSE IT IS FUN. Plain and simple there was nothing lacking it was just fun. It is harder for you guys to grasp this because you all feel that you can't have it all that you have to restrict your selves to one or the other. That is fine for you guys. That is how you feel and how you choose to live your life. There is nothing wrong with that. This is America and there are so many different lifestyles in this country. If everything we are doing turns bad after however long, that is something we will deal with then. Everyone on this planet might have something go wrong in their relationships. That's life. I just don't see the point in constantly pounding your beliefs onto those who don't agree. I do enjoy seeing your opinions. I like to see where other people are coming from, but for someone to tell me my relationship doesn't stand a chance and that no matter what it will fail, well that's just not being a good human. I have been called names on here and told that my marriage isn't real because of the way I choose to live my life. I have had so called Christians belittle me and judge me. All I can say to that is

“He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.”

 

No, you are right more sex does not equal better sex. I never said it did. I don't need to have sex with my boyfriend. I don't need to have sex at all I suppose lol. I enjoy it and with out being able to explain it were any of you can understand it, it is exciting for me to know he is making his girlfriend happy. Not just in bed but she is so happy with him. She loves him almost if not as much as I do. We have run into a few small worries this week but everything was talked about and worked out very easily. Of course it is a work in progress like any other relationship.

 

I understand why people are against this way of life. I don't understand why whose people are so set to make the people who chose to live this way, look like monsters. I guess with out those kind of people we wouldn't have wars or riots. If everyone was more tolerant of others then so much conflict in this world could be avoided. Almost all religions say that in the end I am the one who will answer for my life. So why is it so important to some people to be asses? Not saying you are an ass just over all asking a question.

 

you said Also, the idea that having sex with other people will somehow improve sex within the marriage, means that the sex with the marriage is somehow lacking. Why does it have to mean that?

 

I hope I have answered your questions. If not ask again maybe I just got caught up in what I was saying and didn't see all of them.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

For all of you "open marriage", advocates, I think we are in basic agreement about the importance of honesty and communication in any type of relationship and while I disagree strongly with your reasoning about sex with other people outside of the relationship, I can understand the motives for you doing so. I am a realist, , I don't think an arrangement, one of whose basic tenets is sex with multiple partners is either a realistic or positive example for others, particularly children, to emulate. The potential for physical and emotional harm is very great. I also feel that it lacks closeness, commitment,and respect. As a former Army Officer I have seen several of these types of "marriage", and NONE survived as Open marriage. They either ended, or became monogamous again. These are my opinions, and I will stand by them. Thanks for the great thread, LHLH.

 

 

I don't see how any open relationship would work with someone in the armed forces. That sounds more like a chance to have your fun while you SO is out defending the country. But that is just my opinion and we have all seen how little that matters lol.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

I think it's kind of ****ed up that a lot more people can understand that it's possible to truly still be happy staying in a relationship where you have gotten cheated on, than the people who can understand that it's possible to be happy in an open marriage, where it's obviously based on being honest about each other's wants.

 

And it's also ****ed up how many people came on here judging this lifestyle on this thread, when the OP just wanted to unite other people happily doing the same things as her. Then you look at the "spin-off" thread and not one of the open marriage people would even want to judge their lifestyle.

 

I just think that if it's not for you, then it's not for you. Why call others names or try to invoke some kind of negative emotion just because you don't understand?

 

I don't think that I can have an open marriage, but I'm glad that some of you found happiness in it. It's very rare for it to work, and I applaud you.

 

 

Thank you so much

[Lovinhimlovinher]

I would like to say thank you to everyone who replied to this post. We may not have all gotten along but that is how life works. This would be a very boring place if everyone agreed.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

Something that bugs the sh*t out of me.. John, Woinlove, LHLH maybe you guys can answer this for me. You state that you are in "open marriages", then immediately begin to waffle. You eff other people, but wait, you're MOSTLY monogamous, you just do this, OCCASIONALLY.....sort of. Several times in your posts, I've noticed this. Back and forth it goes, . WE love each other completely, we are completely honest with each other, but we also both scr*w other people , on the side, but we are mostly together, so don't think we are weird or anything.:rolleyes: We're really just like you vanillas...in most things, we're not pervs we're good tax-payers. This kind of stuff. . Wishy-washy cra*p like this is another reason that I'm skeptical about this "open marriage", business. If it's so great, why all the angst?

 

 

When I say I haven't been with my boyfriend for awile or that I have gone long time periods with out having sex with someone else it isn't because I am waffleing personally I don't have the time that it requires most of the time. I have a couple scout groups and other community organizations that I am a part of. There are some nights when it is all I can do to find time to sleep for 4 or 5 hours. I think the reason I express things like "We're really just like you vanillas" your words not mine lol. Is that we want to try to get you to relate just the smallest amount to see where we are coming from. Or at least that is why I do it. I am not trying to be wishy washy just trying to get a glimmer of understanding I guess. I don't think there is any angst.

[UnsureinSeattle]

I'll just say that, on paper (or screen ), an open marriage makes little sense to me. It's not something I would want, or even particularly understand the logistics of. But you're making it work for you? Awesome.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

I'll just say that, on paper (or screen ), an open marriage makes little sense to me. It's not something I would want, or even particularly understand the logistics of. But you're making it work for you? Awesome.

 

 

We do! Thank you.

[Lecturer]

I've been researching polyamory for a couple years now, since I first heard about it. It has been quite a fascinating subject. I am monogamous, but I'm active on a couple poly message boards.

 

A few pages back, Sally4Sara asked if open relationship people feel something 'the opposite of jealousy'. They typically do, it is called compersion. It is the feeling of joy/happiness for your romantic partner, when they find joy/happiness in something other than you. We probably all experience this... perhaps our partner is going on a trip or something without us where we know they are going to have fun and be happy, so we feel our own happiness because of this. For poly people, knowing their partner is enjoying the romantic company of another (including sexual satisfaction) usually brings them joy too.

 

Poly and open relationship people occasionally DO feel jealousy. They try to overcome this jealousy by understanding jealousy. Typically, jealousy comes from an individual's insecurity. If you recognize insecurity as a 'negative' character trait, then you would recognize jealousy as negative as well... something to be fought and defeated. Think to yourself about why your partner being romantically involved with another makes you jealous or insecure. Often it is because we feel it would make us appear disrespected in the eyes of others (embarrassing), perhaps it would be an indicator of our being insufficient to satisfy them, that our partner might be happier with the other person, or that our relationship will be at risk. All of these reasons can be defeated if you really think about it... they are all internal and if they are real, then your relationship probably shouldn't even exist in the first place.

 

People can end up in an open relationship for a number of reasons. Some of these reasons are probably bad, such as a response due to a partner's infidelity, or due to a partner's waining interest. When these are the starting factors, then I think JustJoe et al's warning and predictions are correct.. the relationship is at serious risk of failure (although, to be fair, it'd probably fail anyway!). However, some people go into poly relationships with complete foreknowledge. It seems to me that some people are 'born' that way.. and I tend to see a lot of parallels between the contrast of heterosexuality vs homosexuality and monogamy vs polyamory (born that way, incomplete living any other way, 'making sense' to them, etc).

 

Now, all that said, there are a couple reasons why I don't think I could handle an open relationship.

 

The biggest thing is time. Poly people argue they have unlimited love, and can love multiple partners the same as they can love multiple children. The fact is, though, just like with children, the more you have, the more your time and attention is divided. You cannot give 2 children the same attention and time that you can give 1 (FYI, this is why I only have 1 child, and don't want more). Having a partner split her time between me and even 1 other man is not sufficient for me. I can handle her having outside interests (in fact, it is needed to be healthy), but these aren't and would never be given up.. the time for the other partner is taken from time that'd otherwise go to the primary (or the child[ren]).

 

The second thing is that I feel sex is extremely special and important. To have sex with multiple people reduces the value of it. This is true with any commodity.. the more there is, the less valuable it becomes. Personally, I see this as an issue, even for PAST partners. My wife and I have only slept with each other, and I know for a fact that, had she slept with others prior to me, it would make it less special to me in the same way.

 

So, I guess I'm against poly (for myself) because of my first reason, and against poly and swinging for the 2nd reason.

[NoIDidn't]

I am not sure why people think that open marriages aren't real marriages. You still have a primary couple and family.

 

I have lots of friends that are in open relationships that aren't yet married. It generates the same question: why get married then?

 

I understand the why get married part. Its like having several friends. One you may be closer to than the others. There are multiple relationships going on, and none negates the others, but one is closer. Primary.

 

Probably not the best analogy, but its the best I got.

[JustJoe]

Lecturer, Your post coincides with my issue about the whole "more sex =better sex", belief, and I see this as a reflection on our society , in general. More is always better in America, whether it's sex or all-you-can-eat buffets. This is one of the biggest issues I have with the swinger/poly lifestyle. Since LHLH started this thread, I have visited several swinger/poly forums, and this is a theme repeated by a great many of the posters there. It is my belief that if there were not something lacking in either the marriage itself, or in one of the partners, then the necessity for this lifestyle wouldn't exist. It puzzles me why people believe that adding other people to an obviously unstable situation could make it better. This is the same rationale that some cheaters use. My marriage is in trouble, so I will go outside the marriage for my gratification. If people would put this much effort in making their marriages great, they would have little time or inclination for other sex partners. And I completely agree with your final issue. My GF's body is for my eyes and use , only. If others were getting the same treatment, then how is it special? This is another theme used in the swinger/poly websites, the idea of NSA, casual sex. Casual doesn't sound very special to me. Selfish gratification, without respect, without true love, without human dignity, without honor. Doesn't sound at all appealing . I wonder how the SO's really feel, being just one of many.

[LittleTiger]

To answer your first main question, BECAUSE IT IS FUN. Plain and simple there was nothing lacking it was just fun. It is harder for you guys to grasp this because you all feel that you can't have it all that you have to restrict your selves to one or the other.

 

I have been following this thread with interest and, as I said on the 'closed' marriage thread, I don't understand the concept of an open marriage. However, I make no judgement because I believe in 'live and let live'.

 

What I would like to comment on is this one paragraph I've highlighted because to me it indicates that those involved in an open lifestyle do not understand our view any more than we do theirs. You seem to be suggesting that what you have is better ie 'you can't have it all' and yet, in my mind, you are the ones who are missing something.

 

I can't speak for others of course but my choice to be monogamous has absolutely nothing to do with feeling that I must restrict myself in any way. I don't find monogamy restrictive. With the right person it is emotionally, intellectually and physically completely satisfying. It is, to me, the most wonderful experience available to human kind.

 

I also do not find sex for the sake of sex 'fun'. I have had casual sex in the past which was ok, I have had a FWB which was very exciting but again only ok. When I say ok, I mean the sex was good but the experience was emotionally empty. Personally I don't enjoy sex as a 'pastime' if you understand my meaning. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love sex and have a high sex drive, but only in the context of a monogamous romantic relationship - then the sex is anything but ok. In my current relationship it is mindblowing and creates a connection so deep I cannot even begin to describe it in words.

 

Now, if I understand correctly, people in 'open' relationships are saying that they can love more than one person at a time and presumably therefore have this connection with more than one person. However, in my mind, that's impossible. Giving myself entirely to one man and sharing myself with him in every possible way, and having him give himself to me in the same way is a very particular kind of 'all consuming' experience. It is simply not possible to have that with more than one person at the same time because then it becomes something else. So what you seem to be describing makes no sense to me.

 

What you guys have with your partners and additional friends may indeed be wonderful and satisfying for you and, if that's what you want, who am I to argue? However, I will say, what you have is definitely NOT the same as what I share with my partner - that much I am absolutely sure of - and what I have is what I will always choose.

[JackJack]

"To answer your first main question, BECAUSE IT IS FUN. Plain and simple there was nothing lacking it was just fun. It is harder for you guys to grasp this because you all feel that you can't have it all that you have to restrict your selves to one or the other".

 

My wife and I have FUN too with each other.

 

Good thing I don't find it hard to grasp about feeling restricted. Because I do have it ALL with my wife and don't feel restricted in my love for her or in being intimate with her.

 

I'm just giving my side as far as how I feel with just my wife. Just as you did about being with others, that's all.

[Mannesota]

I am wondering where boundaries are established within the individual emotionally, with the partner and with others involved in the open marriage. How does one live within the family unit when polygamous? It seems discretion is an element of this lifestyle. One may be open in their marital relationship. How does that affect relationship to the self and other relationships within the family and greater society in regards to truth and honesty?

 

It seems as a society we are on the threshold of liberating sexuality. This is not new to cavitations. What has history proved about this type of lifestyle? What is occurring today? Is this lifestyle becoming mainstream because of the information age? I wonder what will be the outcome.

 

Individual responsibility is essential to society. It is great to hear about the attributes to this lifestyle. I would be interested in more reflection from those involved about the challenges. I feel that may give us better insight.

I have been following this thread with interest and, as I said on the 'closed' marriage thread, I don't understand the concept of an open marriage. However, I make no judgement because I believe in 'live and let live'.

 

What I would like to comment on is this one paragraph I've highlighted because to me it indicates that those involved in an open lifestyle do not understand our view any more than we do theirs. You seem to be suggesting that what you have is better ie 'you can't have it all' and yet, in my mind, you are the ones who are missing something.

 

I can't speak for others of course but my choice to be monogamous has absolutely nothing to do with feeling that I must restrict myself in any way. I don't find monogamy restrictive. With the right person it is emotionally, intellectually and physically completely satisfying. It is, to me, the most wonderful experience available to human kind.

 

I also do not find sex for the sake of sex 'fun'. I have had casual sex in the past which was ok, I have had a FWB which was very exciting but again only ok. When I say ok, I mean the sex was good but the experience was emotionally empty. Personally I don't enjoy sex as a 'pastime' if you understand my meaning. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love sex and have a high sex drive, but only in the context of a monogamous romantic relationship - then the sex is anything but ok. In my current relationship it is mindblowing and creates a connection so deep I cannot even begin to describe it in words.

 

Now, if I understand correctly, people in 'open' relationships are saying that they can love more than one person at a time and presumably therefore have this connection with more than one person. However, in my mind, that's impossible. Giving myself entirely to one man and sharing myself with him in every possible way, and having him give himself to me in the same way is a very particular kind of 'all consuming' experience. It is simply not possible to have that with more than one person at the same time because then it becomes something else. So what you seem to be describing makes no sense to me.

 

What you guys have with your partners and additional friends may indeed be wonderful and satisfying for you and, if that's what you want, who am I to argue? However, I will say, what you have is definitely NOT the same as what I share with my partner - that much I am absolutely sure of - and what I have is what I will always choose.

[Mannesota]

It is not ones place to judge others.

 

I am wondering where boundaries are established within the individual emotionally, with the partner and with others involved in the open marriage. How does one live within the family unit when polygamous? It seems discretion is an element of this lifestyle. One may be open in their marital relationship. How does that affect relationship to the self and other relationships within the family and greater society in regards to truth and honesty?

 

It seems as a society we are on the threshold of liberating sexuality. This is not new to cavitations. What has history proved about this type of lifestyle? What is occurring today? Is this lifestyle becoming mainstream because of the information age? I wonder what will be the outcome.

 

Individual responsibility is essential to society. It is great to hear about the attributes to this lifestyle. I would be interested in more reflection from those involved about the challenges. I feel that may give us better insight.

[NoLongerSad]

always facing away from each other

 

Those who fear true intimacy with their partners think, erroneously, that they can find it elsewhere.

[Lecturer]

JustJoe, in response to some of your points:

 

A few themes and guidelines that more experienced and successful poly people go by include such things as:

 

"If the relationship is broken, adding more partners will only make things worse. Fix the primary first, or you'll just be accelerating its demise."

 

"More partners can often somehow lead to less sex."

 

The last point, about less sex occurring, happens because maintaining relationships takes a LOT of energy. I'd estimate that a serious relationship can take about half the energy of a full-time job, depending on the partner and their specific time/energy needs. But these are poly people, meaning their interest is to cultivate and develop advanced relationships with their partners. That is a LOT of work. I rarely see a person with a very demanding career able to handle even 2 very serious relationships... it just isn't possible, something has to give.

 

Another concept often mentioned in poly communities, which ties in to this, is NRE, or New Relationship Energy. This is basically where the excitement and intensity of a new relationship is like a very powerful drug. During this time, sex often DOES increase, but that increase only lasts for the weeks or months that NRE lasts... once it wears off (and it always does), the sex rate drops, and the energy to keep the relationship going increases.

 

Speaking of NRE, this is a huge obstacle for many people that try poly. For some reason, I find women seem to experience NRE a bit more intensely than men. Regardless, the result is that their primary partner can end up feeling neglected because - well, honestly - their partner's mind is consumed with thoughts and desires for their new love. Compersion can only take you so far... the neglect can be enough to cause some serious blow-ups, including the abandonment of poly or the ending of the relationship entirely.

 

I guess my point is that there are a lot of added risks by engaging in a poly relationship. Participants often have ways of trying to deal with them, but it is undeniably a struggle.

 

As a sort of aside - I have noticed some bizarre patterns regarding poly people and their lifestyles in general. They have a notably high percentage of being Pegan and/or renfair-type people. I'm not sure exactly why this correlation/connection exists.. perhaps due to a common desire to be different from the norm and break the established rules of society? I haven't figured it out myself, but from my observations, the frequency is significant.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

By the way something no one mentioned, was this. What would happen if you or your partner were to impregnate or get pregnant by one of their partners and want to keep the child? Because as we know birth control and condoms aren't always 100% effective, so what would you do in that situation?

 

 

Honestly this is a subject that just recently came up with H and I. We used to be just about the sex with other people until he met his girlfriend. She is sweet, intelligent, kind and caring. He fell in love with her. She wants marriage and kids. I told her I couldn't give her a legal marriage but that a piece of paper means nothing to me. I liked her right from the start. I told her that if they continue to grow as a couple n their own pace then if that was something they wanted then I would make sure she got her wedding and I would be more than happy to bring a new life into our family.

[Distant78]

As a sort of aside - I have noticed some bizarre patterns regarding poly people and their lifestyles in general. They have a notably high percentage of being Pegan and/or renfair-type people. I'm not sure exactly why this correlation/connection exists.. perhaps due to a common desire to be different from the norm and break the established rules of society? I haven't figured it out myself, but from my observations, the frequency is significant.

 

I've noticed that also during my continuous research.

[John Bigboote]

You state that you are in "open marriages", then immediately begin to waffle. You eff other people, but wait, you're MOSTLY monogamous, you just do this, OCCASIONALLY.....sort of.

 

I think you're assuming that open marriages have to be pure (ahem) unadulterated promiscuous free-for-alls where anything goes all the time. I don't know *any* relationships like that, and I know a lot of open people.

 

We still have boundaries; they're just different from yours. And I don't think I would have the energy to slut it around every single day. I certainly don't have the desire; I'm a real introvert.

 

Anyway, you're setting up a false dilemma: it's not a choice between two options: traditional marriage vs. ****ing everything in sight. I don't want to **** everything in sight. That's not me. Being nonmonogamous doesn't mean that You can't still be choosy or demure or not in the mood today. I'm really choosy about people I sleep with. We personally do not usually go out looking for people to bring home. Because that's not the way we like it. Some people do that. That's ok for them but not for us. Even those folks, though, tend to have standards and they always have boundaries if they expect their primary relationships to survive. That doesn't make us wafflers; it makes us people who live the life we want, which is neither monogamous nor constant unceasing ****ing around.

 

I like your honesty and harbour no ill will at all (not at this time of year). But knowing you're in that lifestyle and will flirt with my wife would make me very very uncomfortable and you will (consciously or unconsciously) always push the boundaries or it will hover above us.

 

OK, well, maybe me and you are not cut out to be best buds. That's OK. I don't need to be friends with everybody. As long as we can be respectful and civil with each other.

 

And I am still an adult capable of respecting other peoples boundaries. If someone tells me they don't feel comfortable with something I'm doing then I will stop doing that. You don't even have to tell me; I can tell when people are put off by me, and I'll stop doing whatever it is that I did. I'm not blind or stupid or intentionally disrespectful of people (hopefully). I don't flirt with everyone. Just people I really like that are ok with it and with whom it feels natural. You guys are asking how our love lives work... So that is what you're hearing about. No one is forced to be a part of that.

[JustJoe]

John, I never said anywhere that polys were promiscuous, just adulterous. I also never said that the opposite of a traditional relationship (remember now, I'm not married) was a lifestyle of mass orgies. You are projecting. My issues are based on my experiences and , in some cases friendship, with several practitioners of "open marriages". The vast majority will eventually divorce or become monogamous. That there are a few LTR I won't deny. Usually when one partner so dominates the other, that the weaker becomes a doormat/cuckold. This BTW is also a recurrent theme in Poly or swinger websites.

[John Bigboote]

OK, I don't want to misinterpret your question. Can you explain what you mean then when you say "waffling?" because obviously I am not seeing your point.

 

Can you produce scholarly data that supports your position that the "vast majority" divorce or become monogamous? How does it compare with monogamous divorce?

[NoLongerSad]

Bigboote,

 

why do you let other men have sex with your woman?

 

What's in it for you? (Aside from the obvious tit for tat notion that you have to let her do other guys in order for you to have a similar freedom)

 

I'm not saying that you don't get a benefit out of having sex with other women, yourself.

 

My question is very specific: What benefit (other than tit for tat) accrues to you by virtue of your wife having sex with other men?

 

And don't try to cop out by saying something like "Well it makes her happier so it makes me happier."

 

We would all like to have the unvarnished truth about how you really feel knowing that some other man is going to town with your wife, and she is thoroughly enjoying it.

[JustJoe]

John, I wasn't singling you out specifically, it was a general question. What I meant is that you (pl) who are in "open marriages", will tell us of how liberating, sensual, and mind-f**kingly good, "open marriages", are, but then , as if to re-assure us monagamous types,go to great lengths to show how you (pl) aren't really any different from us and that you are good clean -living taxpayers and not weirdos. Why is that? Because you all know that it isn't acceptible behavior.

[Distant78]

In open marriages they get turned on knowing their spouse is being had by someone else.

[Lovinhimlovinher]

Bigboote,

 

why do you let other men have sex with your woman?

 

What's in it for you? (Aside from the obvious tit for tat notion that you have to let her do other guys in order for you to have a similar freedom)

 

I'm not saying that you don't get a benefit out of having sex with other women, yourself.

 

My question is very specific: What benefit (other than tit for tat) accrues to you by virtue of your wife having sex with other men?

 

And don't try to cop out by saying something like "Well it makes her happier so it makes me happier."

 

We would all like to have the unvarnished truth about how you really feel knowing that some other man is going to town with your wife, and she is thoroughly enjoying it.

 

 

I can not answer for him but I will tell you why I do it. It makes me happy. I thought there was something wrong with me that i felt actual pleasure from his happiness. It turns out it is common in cases like mine it is called Compersion it is basically the opposite of jealousy.