Open Marriage and very happy

[Distant78]

No, we haven't had to handle "fighting over partners and deception". "Deception" is sort of the opposite of "open". Some jealousy, yes, in the earlier years. We've lived this way for over 25 years, almost all of those married. I'm not sure which stage you think is ahead of us. I like having this freedom, but if my H wanted us to stop, I would.

 

No, deception is not the opposite of "open." If you've been "intimate" with another there's no way you haven't been discussing your husband or your marriage. Isn't that the whole point of polyamory? To be intimate with another other than your married partner, right? You say you like having this freedom, and have been doing it for over 25 years? There's no way you would just stop all of a sudden.

[woinlove]

You're probably right about that, Woinlove. I don't possess the necessary self-delusion, dishonesty, selfishness or an impressionable SO to make it work. I used to be a OM in an affair, but I never deluded myself into thinking that I was anything else. BTW, I would be interested in knowing if either you or LHLH were married in a church, if so, you are both fornicators and adulterers, by definition. ( not mine, the churches) NO reputable Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu faith considers "open marriages', as anything other than sin. That whole "forsaking all others", part and the " two shall become one flesh", part would seem to indicate that you are on the wrong track here. Riddle: when is a marriage, not a marriage? When it is an open marriage. But I do thank both of you, for an interesting thread.

 

No, we were not married in a church - our wedding was not religious.

[JustJoe]

It makes sense to me that sex with new partners would be a path to renewed sexual excitement with the "old" partner.

 

It is not, of course, the only path, and I disagree that "everyone knows" what you've posted in the first paragraph. And I am very happy that my mono married sex is not limited to the bolded! Just because you can give someone a quick orgasm doesn't mean you have to. It just means you can control the timing for the greatest impact

 

This has been a very interesting thread! I don't really understand why people get worked up because other people decide to have open marriages, but I guess I can understand it if they don't believe it is truly a mutually desired situation.

xxoo, It never is truly mutual, but most of the practitioners are unwilling to admit it, hence the hypocrisy. Woinlove has stated that she told her H that she wanted an open marriage, he, on the other hand , just wanted to get married to her. So what is he to do? It seems to me that She made the "open marriage" a pre-condition, which he could either accept and be married or reject and not be married. Most married people who advocate this type of arrangement have some kind of sexual/emotional dysfunction, IMO.

[JustJoe]

And I am not implying any immorality to anyone. Just arguing an interesting point.

[woinlove]

xxoo, It never is truly mutual, but most of the practitioners are unwilling to admit it, hence the hypocrisy. Woinlove has stated that she told her H that she wanted an open marriage, he, on the other hand , just wanted to get married to her. So what is he to do? It seems to me that She made the "open marriage" a pre-condition, which he could either accept and be married or reject and not be married. Most married people who advocate this type of arrangement have some kind of sexual/emotional dysfunction, IMO.

 

I don't understand your logic. It is not unusual for one person (say, the man) to ask the other to marry him, but when she says "yes", that doesn't mean it is not a truly mutual decision to marry?

 

My H often tells me that marrying me was the best decision he ever made. Perhaps two truly-mutually-self-deluding people is what makes a good marriage. :laugh:

[woinlove]

Just a question I often wondered. Has there ever been a time since the both of you have been doing this, where either of you might have felt, there were more women or more men on the side than either of you knew about? I know there was some mention of being open and honest, I'm assuming that means letting the other one know about who you are with etc.? Have either of you ever found out there was another person(s) the other one didn't know about? If so, how was that handled?

 

No, neither of us have ever wondered. We trust each other and we've never given each other reason to doubt that. Since we talk so much about our feelings, attractions, and desires, there just doesn't seem to be the necessary gap in intimacy that one typically would need to pull off that kind of deception.

[xxoo]

. Perhaps two truly-mutually-self-deluding people is what makes a good marriage. :laugh:

 

I sometimes think this is true!

 

Of course, the two must be compatible in their delusion

[woinlove]

I sometimes think this is true!

 

Of course, the two must be compatible in their delusion

 

Yes, that's they key.

 

Btw, I've particularly enjoyed your insights and questions from the "mono" perspective!

[JustJoe]

I don't understand your logic. It is not unusual for one person (say, the man) to ask the other to marry him, but when she says "yes", that doesn't mean it is not a truly mutual decision to marry?

 

My H often tells me that marrying me was the best decision he ever made. Perhaps two truly-mutually-self-deluding people is what makes a good marriage. :laugh:

Delusion, like fanaticism, is never an attractive trait, or a particularly useful one. What you are describing, Woinlove, is emotional /sexual blackmail. I want to screw other guys, if you want to marry me , you will have to agree to my terms. I don't consider coeorcion a "mutual decision", do you? What if your husband had insisted on monogamy? Would you have "forsake all others", then and been happy about it?

[woinlove]

Delusion, like fanaticism, is never an attractive trait, or a particularly useful one. What you are describing, Woinlove, is emotional /sexual blackmail. I want to screw other guys, if you want to marry me , you will have to agree to my terms. I don't consider coeorcion a "mutual decision", do you? What if your husband had insisted on monogamy? Would you have "forsake all others", then and been happy about it?

 

You really jump to conclusions. You asked who first brought up the idea and I answered. There wasn't any coercion in our discussions, not that you'll let someone else's reality get in the way of your mindset.

[JackJack]

I'm assuming by delusional, you mean those people who do not believe in open marriages are delusional and those who do believe in open marriages are delusional as well? Who exactly is delusional?

 

Forgive me if this has already been answered, because I didn't read through all the comments. My question(s) are. For those who are in open marriages, when did you decide you thought this was right for you? Were you raised this way? Did something happen or trigger you to think this might be a good thing to try? If so, what was the the thing(s) you felt prompted you to suggest this to your spouse? Did you feel porn had something to do with it? Were you just a overly horny person growing up? Did you possibly feel entitled to do it?

[JustJoe]

Again, Woinlove, coeorcion is relative. What I asked you was if your H had insisted on a Vanilla marriage, would you have done it and been happy about it? I haven't any "mindst", other than trying to get my questions answered. You seem to want to evade , instead of discuss.

[xxoo]

Again, Woinlove, coeorcion is relative. What I asked you was if your H had insisted on a Vanilla marriage, would you have done it and been happy about it? I haven't any "mindst", other than trying to get my questions answered. You seem to want to evade , instead of discuss.

 

Joe, it seems you are assuming her H needed to be coerced. Maybe she was the one to bring it up, but he thought it was a great idea.

 

Also, if it was brought up before marriage, he had the option of recognizing an incompatibility and declining a marriage on those terms (taking back his offer of marriage). IMO, it is far better for people to be HONEST about who they are and what they want/need BEFORE marriage, and accept or reject each other on those terms, than to agree to a closed marriage and be unhappy. There is someone out there for everyone, and if the non-mono people are open and honest, then they can find each other

[John Bigboote]

I haven't any "mindst", other than trying to get my questions answered. You seem to want to evade , instead of discuss.

 

Says the person who calls anyone who disagrees with him "delusional." Who wants to discuss anything with someone who will smugly call anything they say a lie?

 

Other people's differing beliefs and life choices do not represent their failure to be you.

[JustJoe]

Woinlove, my skepticism is based on three issues. I. That this was a mutually, independently, and enthusiastically agreed-upon situation. I call this delusional bull. One or the other of the couple wanted it and the other ( for whatever reason) agreed to it, in order for the marriage to continue.. 2. The reasons invented to justify it. For example: We have an open marriage, which is better than dishonesty and betrayal. That's like saying, " I have a broken leg. But hey , at least I don't have cancer." The old lesser of two evils argument. 3. The hypocrisy. " We have a perfect, blissful marriage, the sex is wonderful and we are so happy, etc. Oh , BTW we aren't in a real marriage, at all. I/ We changed the rules to suit the dissatisfied (selfish) partner. That's like saying I like tp play poker, but only if I can invent my own rules so that I always win. I believe that a true , loving, and respectful relationship doesn't need benefit of clergy or a marriage license, but it does need complete honesty and fidelity.

[sally4sara]

I've often wondered how people arrive at the decision myself.

Such as having a series of relationships that go bust because you can't remain faithful or they couldn't remain faithful so the decision is one where they just decide to not bother with that boundary because they either can't live up to it or have come to believe no one can live up to it?

 

Or maybe there are just people who don't respond with jealousy at the thought of their partner being with someone else? What would you even call the opposite of jealousy? At ease? Secure? But is it ever "my partner is off screwing someone else YIPPEE"? I can't imagine that. Maybe everything else is working so well, they figure a little extramarital sex isn't the end of the world?

 

I could see that, but I can't imagine it would ever be something that would make them happy to have going on - just something they decide they can tolerate for all the other good stuff in the relationship? I just wonder if it eventually it begins to eat at them? Like they thought it wouldn't be a big deal but after so many years, they need meds or counseling to not obsess about it going on?

 

I think of the things that make it obvious to others that my husband and I are a couple. The inside jokes. The way we communicate much with few words and subtle touch. I wouldn't even begin to know how to let someone else in like that and still feel so connected to my husband. Most of the time you can tell if a couple is together. And it would burn me if he was developing that same closeness to someone else; different inside jokes I wouldn't understand and that other people would confuse who of us was his partner.

Plus it just seems to me that there would be so many more rules to this relationship style causing twice or more ways to hurt each other because some of the situations just wouldn't come up unless that venue was believed to be available to you. I read "I didn't expect I'd end up having these feelings for them" in the affair forum and I always think "why didn't you just not put yourself in that situation? But in this kind of relationship, you'd ALWAYS be putting yourself in that situation!

[JustJoe]

Says the person who calls anyone who disagrees with him "delusional." Who wants to discuss anything with someone who will smugly call anything they say a lie?

 

Other people's differing beliefs and life choices do not represent their failure to be you.

I have also said that everybody is free to do what they want. You are free to dissagree with me as are the other posters . The Duke of Wellington once said, " A Frenchman will kill you if you say he is not a Gentleman.....but that doesn't make him one". I may be right or I may be wrong, but it's been my experience, that these types of relationships are NEVER fully satisfying to BOTH partners, Equally.

[JustJoe]

I've often wondered how people arrive at the decision myself.

Such as having a series of relationships that go bust because you can't remain faithful or they couldn't remain faithful so the decision is one where they just decide to not bother with that boundary because they either can't live up to it or have come to believe no one can live up to it?

 

Or maybe there are just people who don't respond with jealousy at the thought of their partner being with someone else? What would you even call the opposite of jealousy? At ease? Secure? But is it ever "my partner is off screwing someone else YIPPEE"? I can't imagine that. Maybe everything else is working so well, they figure a little extramarital sex isn't the end of the world?

 

I could see that, but I can't imagine it would ever be something that would make them happy to have going on - just something they decide they can tolerate for all the other good stuff in the relationship? I just wonder if it eventually it begins to eat at them? Like they thought it wouldn't be a big deal but after so many years, they need meds or counseling to not obsess about it going on?

 

I think of the things that make it obvious to others that my husband and I are a couple. The inside jokes. The way we communicate much with few words and subtle touch. I wouldn't even begin to know how to let someone else in like that and still feel so connected to my husband. Most of the time you can tell if a couple is together. And it would burn me if he was developing that same closeness to someone else; different inside jokes I wouldn't understand and that other people would confuse who of us was his partner.

Plus it just seems to me that there would be so many more rules to this relationship style causing twice or more ways to hurt each other because some of the situations just wouldn't come up unless that venue was believed to be available to you. I read "I didn't expect I'd end up having these feelings for them" in the affair forum and I always think "why didn't you just not put yourself in that situation? But in this kind of relationship, you'd ALWAYS be putting yourself in that situation!

Sara, you are the best!!

[sally4sara]

I have also said that everybody is free to do what they want. You are free to dissagree with me as are the other posters . The Duke of Wellington once said, " A Frenchman will kill you if you say he is not a Gentleman.....but that doesn't make him one". I may be right or I may be wrong, but it's been my experience, that these types of relationships are NEVER fully satisfying to BOTH partners, Equally.

 

And along that same line of thought - how many "normal" relationships are fully satisfying to BOTH partners equally? We got a great peek into the messes that happen in "normal" ones here on LS. When one goes down the crapper, there is always something to identify as to why. Maybe these open or poly ones are not so different - when they fail? Its just that us "normal" folks believe the sex with others is always what did it in while believing that "normal" relationship with no infidelity CAN fail for other reasons?

[mitchell]

I want to thank and applaud the OP for posting her experiences for us all to share and discuss.

 

The one point that I still cannot get over is the rule that there can be no kissing during sex since that is considered too intimate. I'm amazed that the intimacy level of having sex is considered OK, but kissing is over the top. I simply cannot imagine having sex without kissing. Is oral sex OK? Is anal sex too intimate due to the trust required??

[John Bigboote]

Full disclosure: I'm not in exactly the same kind of open relationship the others here appear to be. There are lots of relationship models in the universe. Wifey and I find sex with strangers and/or purely sexual relationships distasteful. We prefer to cultivate friendly / romantic connections to our lovers. I'm also coming to this party a bit late.

 

So I of course, as always, can only answer for myself.

 

Forgive me if this has already been answered, because I didn't read through all the comments. My question(s) are. For those who are in open marriages, when did you decide you thought this was right for you?

 

I've been behaving in a poly way since puberty, although I didn't have a word for it until much later.

 

Were you raised this way?

No, but my mom was pretty open about sex.

 

Did something happen or trigger you to think this might be a good thing to try?

Society had been telling me that "respect" for a girl meant that you didn't have sex with her under any circumstances. The first time a girl wanted me to have sex with her, I didn't even know what was happening and ran away. I don't think she felt terribly "respected" that day. Society had also been telling me that "love" could only be real for one person. When I found myself in love with two (*sigh* yes, who knew about each other and were fine with it), I panicked and reasoned that it couldn't be real love. I had a moment where I believed social messages over my own heart and mind: I believed that I was delusional. So I broke up with both, which lead to a tremendous amount of unnecessary pain. Because it was indeed love after all.

 

So I had determined that society had been lying to me about both respect and love. And if they were willing to lie to me about these things, they were probably lying to me about everything else relationship-wise.

 

If so, what was the the thing(s) you felt prompted you to suggest this to your spouse?

We were introduced by a mutual friend who knew we felt the same way about these things, so there was no need for suggestions.

 

Did you feel porn had something to do with it?

You're being silly.

 

Were you just a overly horny person growing up?

Everyone is an overly horny person growing up. I'm not any more sexual than other people around me, as far as I can tell. I just put no value on what other people call "self-control" and what I call "self-denial." Life is for living. I don't care to self-control myself all the way to the nursing home.

 

Did you possibly feel entitled to do it?

What?

 

I definitely feel entitled to live my life in the way I choose to do. Do you feel "entitled" to monogamy? I don't even know what that means.

[sally4sara]

Full disclosure: I'm not in exactly the same kind of open relationship the others here appear to be. There are lots of relationship models in the universe. Wifey and I find sex with strangers and/or purely sexual relationships distasteful. We prefer to cultivate friendly / romantic connections to our lovers. I'm also coming to this party a bit late.

 

So I of course, as always, can only answer for myself.

 

 

 

I've been behaving in a poly way since puberty, although I didn't have a word for it until much later.

 

No, but my mom was pretty open about sex.

 

Society had been telling me that "respect" for a girl meant that you didn't have sex with her under any circumstances. The first time a girl wanted me to have sex with her, I didn't even know what was happening and ran away. I don't think she felt terribly "respected" that day. Society had also been telling me that "love" could only be real for one person. When I found myself in love with two (*sigh* yes, who knew about each other and were fine with it), I panicked and reasoned that it couldn't be real love. I had a moment where I believed social messages over my own heart and mind: I believed that I was delusional. So I broke up with both, which lead to a tremendous amount of unnecessary pain. Because it was indeed love after all.

 

So I had determined that society had been lying to me about both respect and love. And if they were willing to lie to me about these things, they were probably lying to me about everything else relationship-wise.

 

We were introduced by a mutual friend who knew we felt the same way about these things, so there was no need for suggestions.

 

You're being silly.

 

Everyone is an overly horny person growing up. I'm not any more sexual than other people around me, as far as I can tell. I just put no value on what other people call "self-control" and what I call "self-denial." Life is for living. I don't care to self-control myself all the way to the nursing home.

 

What?

 

I definitely feel entitled to live my life in the way I choose to do. Do you feel "entitled" to monogamy? I don't even know what that means.

 

Well then maybe you can answer my questions in this?

 

Are you ever made happy when your partner goes off to have sex with someone else? Or is it just an "oh well, I'll catch up with them later" and you try to put it out of your mind kind of thing? Ever been around your partner and their other and felt out of the loop or that they were not as aligned with you as you believed? Ever experienced a moment during socialization where your were treated oddly because they met your partner's other first and believed THAT was their spouse - not you? What did that feel like?

[John Bigboote]

And along that same line of thought - how many "normal" relationships are fully satisfying to BOTH partners equally? We got a great peek into the messes that happen in "normal" ones here on LS. When one goes down the crapper, there is always something to identify as to why. Maybe these open or poly ones are not so different - when they fail? Its just that us "normal" folks believe the sex with others is always what did it in while believing that "normal" relationship with no infidelity CAN fail for other reasons?

 

And also consider that, especially if you consider dating relationships, the vast majority of monogamous relationships fail (end in breakup), but despite this dismal track record no one ever blames monogamy.

 

On the other hand, when a nonmonogamous relationship fails, it's always the nonmonogamy that gets the blame. Even when a nonmonogamous relationship is working, just look at this thread, the nonmonogamy will be assumed to be responsible for any breakups that might happen in the future.

[JustJoe]

And along that same line of thought - how many "normal" relationships are fully satisfying to BOTH partners equally? We got a great peek into the messes that happen in "normal" ones here on LS. When one goes down the crapper, there is always something to identify as to why. Maybe these open or poly ones are not so different - when they fail? Its just that us "normal" folks believe the sex with others is always what did it in while believing that "normal" relationship with no infidelity CAN fail for other reasons?

There is a lot of truth to this, but in "normal", ones, you only have two people to satisfy. In these other relationships, you have many more. I feel the same way about Polygamy, who, in their right mind would want to add MORE partners? It's hard enough to deal with one SO (as we see here on LS all of the time) more or bigger doesn't necessarily translate to better, any more than more sex equals better sex. Don't believe me, ask a hooker. WE have evolved our marriage customs over thousands of years of experience and NO culture or religion except "fringe", ones accept this definition of marriage, why? because it doesn't work in the long run. African proverb: Before you change your ancestors customs, you must make sure that you have something of greater value, to replace them with. I don't think a marriage based on casual sexual encounters is of greater value than thousands of years of human relationships, do you? Edited December 20, 2010 by JustJoe

[aerogurl87]

Yes, we've discussed that, and us living a life with three people is not something we dismiss out of hand, but it seems unlikely to both of us, since we both consider any other relationships secondary to our own. We've been living this way for many years and both want to continue to do so, so I don't think the odds are as high as you think.

 

Mmk, well I was just asking because you know all it takes is for one person to find that person they "can't live without". Love makes people do crazy things when they get hit hard enough with it's power.