Jennie - an unapologetic OW

[jennie-jennie]

JJ, You mentioned in another thread something along the lines of, certain MM being selfless and sacrificing what they want most. Is this how you see your MM?

 

I'm sorry, I don't really recognize that as something I have said, so I have problem responding to your post.

 

Concerning my children, they know the full story. My culture is different, we rarely protect children (or spouses) from "the truth".

[jennie-jennie]

But he betrayed you, too....

 

And as many other BSs, I have forgiven that and moved on.

[jennie-jennie]

My question to you is wondering, to be as satisfied and fulfilled as you are, how much of mm do you get? Does he Work away from home and spend his days and nights with you as if you had him in whole or do you live by a schedule for communication and time together as many oW must. If there was a piece of my mm that bothered me the most and that would make me undeniably say that I don't think I'd allow myself to be in this same place 5 years from now, it is the fact that he has a whole other life that I can't be apart of. A home, children, extended family, etc. I get a large piece of his life and time, but the piece that matters to me is still out of my reach. I am unapologetic in the sense that I love him whole heartedly, that I have no regret, and that I have no desire to walk away, but one day, yes one day, I know I will expect or demand more and will be at a crossroads of making that choice to walk if I need to.

 

I'm past 50 and have a life of my own. My MM spends most of his time at work, where he is constantly available to me. We speak for hours each day. Even during weekends he makes sure we get time together.

 

Since we have a long distance relationship, when we meet he is mine 24/7, and I do not have to experience him giving me only bits of time.

 

I don't miss the parts you mention. In that way you and I are different. I miss having him next to me in bed at night, that is the biggest part missing for me.

[jennie-jennie]

Doing well....keeping it real:)

 

I think you're a good example of a workable A & that it's possible. Yes, anything can happen & none of us are secure in our R, m or not. We all just do the best we can.

 

About the Al-anon thing...it's also about boundaries, which I think all co-dependants have a lifelong struggle w/, which is probably how we got to this place!!

 

Thanks for this input. Yes, I do believe I am a good example of a workable affair!

 

Boundaries for sure is a challenge! Coming from a home with a narcissistic mother, I believe I had NO boundaries. I've been working on them since.

[jennie-jennie]

that is really sick and twisted.

 

you really have no idea how he behaves with his wife and children. you are assuming he is teaching them to be cheaters or someone who gets cheated on you have no idea what goes on in his home. none. he may be cuddling his wife and kissing her in front of his kids. he may happily sit with her and watch tv. He may seek her out to ask questions of vacation plans, kids education, etc. you have no idea and to insinuate that you do is delusional.

 

We teach our children by example. My MM is teaching them the roles of the WS and the BS. Even if the children are not consciously aware of this, this is what he is teaching them.

[jennie-jennie]

Jennie, do you see this A as a safe relationship? Like you won't get hurt because you don't really have much to lose? In a conventional relationship, one person can always leave the other, and get hurt. In your A, your MM probably will not leave you, as he has stayed for 5 years, and you said you have no intention of leaving him. So do you see him as "safe?"

 

No, I don't see our relationship as safe. And if you had been in an extramarital relationship yourself, you would know that you do get hurt and they really aren't safe. There is always the possibility of Dday, or that the MM goes to IC and realizes he wants to end your relationship and stay married. There are all the times you despair because you can't get your head around the fact that he doesn't just resolve the situation. And I have a lot to lose, you can be sure of that.

 

I do feel safe as in knowing that he loves me and treats me well. He is a safe haven to me, he is such a gentle, nice man.

 

Also, how do you know he isn't/won't have sex with his wife? Aren't you scared he will?

 

No, I am not scared of my MM having sex with his wife. And I trust that if he did, he would tell me. I'd deal with that then.

 

I know it will be very hard for him the next time she makes a pass at him. It will be interesting to see how he deals with that this time. Blame it on ED? Finally tell her the truth? Give after?

[jennie-jennie]

Okay, so you feel alcoholism and adultary are in the same category? Alcoholics cannot stop drinking, they can't control themselves. Cheating men can control themselves, they just don't want to. Do you feel that your MM cannot control himself to not be with two women at the same time?

 

I believe alcoholism and "wanting to do the right thing" are in the same category. My MM's problem is not our relationship, it is that he is more committed to "doing the right thing" than to deal with the situation that his circumstances have vastly changed.

 

The problem was there before the affair, and it will remain after, if he and his wife do not do anything about it. She has the same problem, and yet she is faithful, which shows the adultery is a symptom not the root of the problem.

[jennie-jennie]

I totally understand that the way he treats you is the only thing that matters in your mind. Still, I tend to judge the character of a man by the way he treats all women--whether it's his wife, his OW, or the crazy cat lady who lives next door.

 

He's jealous of you because he knows he has no claim on you; you're the wild card in this situation. His wife, on the other hand, is a sure thing. As long as he can cover his tracks and not get caught, she's not going anywhere.

 

You make him happy. His wife makes him happy. In the grand scheme of things, it seems MM's only concern is that he is happy. He completely understands that his wife deserves the same, but allowing her to find love would mean letting her go--and he would have to give up all of the benefits of marriage. I find his total disregard for her happiness far more distasteful than his infidelity.

 

I hope you don't spend another 5 years on this cat. I hope you'll meet a wonderful, single, gorgeous, rich, well-hung man in 2011 who can give you 120% of himself!

 

No, he is jealous of me because we have a sexual relationship. He and his wife don't, thus no jealousy.

 

He is not ready to let go of all of the benefits of marriage, that is true.

 

Thank you for the well wishes! I wouldn't mind one of those!

[Distant78]

Hi Distant,

 

I must disagree with you due to the fact that Jennie has said they spend countless hours together conversing. A man who is just after sex doesnot do this IMO.

 

ExDM and I had an EA and he was not having sex with his W (I know this to be true because I heard it fromj all of the horses mouth and exDM didn't tell me this until I asked him about it out of curiousity after him and his ex had split.

 

We didn't have sex when we were "together" because this time I wanted to wait until M. We were together for three years after he had split with his W and 2 years prior.

 

I think Jennies MM is crazy about her and sex is not the only reason he is with her.

 

Well of course you disagree, but JJ just said her MM is "jealous":confused: because he has a sexual relationship with her, and not his wife. Hmm....I wonder why.....

[Distant78]

Yea, we'll see JJ how long you can keep up this destruction. You say you have no issue breaking up their family (which is obvious) you've already done that. I repeat, this will not end well.

[jennie-jennie]

The part in bold, I completely agree with you. Only difference is how JJ views her own situation. Her MM is similar to some OW's on here, though I give him props that he isn't messing her up, playing the cat/mouse game, and acting jerkish like some other MM do to their OW's..Though that could all change if/when a D-Day happens. Never say never, there have been countless OW and afew OM who swore their MM or MW would NEVER throw them under the bus... Yet, it happened.

 

For your sake JJ, I hope your MM never throws you under the bus. Problem is, he doesn't know HOW he is going to feel when the time comes his wife finds out the truth. Anything can happen on D-Day.

 

I am completely aware that my MM might very well throw me under the bus on Dday.

[jennie-jennie]

I think Jennies MM is crazy about her and sex is not the only reason he is with her.

 

You're right as always! But I'm not bad in bed either!

[JustJoe]

AS the former OM in an affair, I think we are playing at semantics here. There is no such thing as a "good", affair, but there very well may be "do-able", affairs, as long as the BS is kept ignorant or as long as (in my case) fidelity is not high on the list of the BS'S prioritys. Most of the "unapologetic", OM/OW's are like me, the affair ended in our favor. Jennie knows I like her, but I still wonder how "unapologetic", she would be, if she were under the bus, looking up.

[jennie-jennie]

As if threads won't get jacked now that the OP has her own private little corner of Loveshack. someone asks a question, OP uses herself as an example, and it's off to the races.

Now we can send OP back to her corner when this occurs then. Right!

Discuss your relationship all you want but don't try to say you're doing it out of popular demand or courtesy to others ok? Next a fan wil suggest this thread be made a sticky.

 

Great suggestion!

 

Hopefully my thread will be of help to newcomers in two ways:

 

- it shows how you can be happy with your MP even if you desire him/her to get a divorce

 

- it shows that even MP who love you to pieces and are good people may stay married

 

So my thread can serve both as advice and a warning to OW/OM who are looking for help and support on LS.

[jennie-jennie]

AS the former OM in an affair, I think we are playing at semantics here. There is no such thing as a "good", affair, but there very well may be "do-able", affairs, as long as the BS is kept ignorant or as long as (in my case) fidelity is not high on the list of the BS'S prioritys. Most of the "unapologetic", OM/OW's are like me, the affair ended in our favor. Jennie knows I like her, but I still wonder how "unapologetic", she would be, if she were under the bus, looking up.

 

That is yet to be seen, Joe! Although I can't see myself apologizing for being thrown under the bus!

[JustJoe]

I disagree. I like Jennie, but think her MM is a typical cake-eating a$$.

[anne1707]

I'm past 50 and have a life of my own. My MM spends most of his time at work, where he is constantly available to me. We speak for hours each day. Even during weekends he makes sure we get time together.

 

Jennie

 

You have alluded to this before about how you and he are pretty much in constant contact throughout the whole day. Well that must mean you are pretty much glued to your PC and I really do not see how that is having a life of your own. I also remember that you once said that your children have lost out on time with you so that you can remain in contact with the MM. Again that does not suggest to me that you are living your own life as your family are suffering.

[JustJoe]

This is why I think that the term "unapologetic OM/OW", is wrong and the term "Un-repentant OM/OW", should be used. I'm not apologetic about my love for my GF, but I certainly feel bad about how we conducted the beginnings of our relationship.

[donnamaybe]

I have full confidence in that I am my MM's primary and only love object

In another thread, you stated that you knew your ex really loved YOU because after his numerous affairs, he would always come back to you. How, then, can you state the above when your MM hasn't even considered leaving his W for you in all these years? He hasn't even left her to have to return to her? Doesn't it then follow, logically (based on your statement in that other thread), that SHE is HIS primary and only love object?

[OWoman]

There is no such thing as a "good", affair, but there very well may be "do-able", affairs, as long as the BS is kept ignorant or as long as (in my case) fidelity is not high on the list of the BS'S prioritys.

 

I disagree. All of my As have been good.

 

I guess it depends on your understanding of "good", and for whom "good" is an issue.

 

Most of the "unapologetic", OM/OW's are like me, the affair ended in our favor. Jennie knows I like her, but I still wonder how "unapologetic", she would be, if she were under the bus, looking up.

 

All of my As ended in my favour. What that translated as varied according to what I wanted and my circumstances at the time, but I don't think that an A ending "in the OW / OM's favour" necessarily translates as the APs landing up together. An OW or OM calling time on an A that no longer works for them is also ending the A in their favour, as is the OW / OM whose MP quietly disappears and leaves them in peace to reconstruct their life and achieve their potential, freeing them from an A that was harmful to them. As long as their best interests triumph - whatever those are - I'd consider the A to have ended in that person's favour - whether or not they land up with their MP.

[JustJoe]

Still semantics, Owoman, one man's tuna, is another man's catfood. I doubt very seriously if the BS's ( or even most of your AP's) in your equations, considered the results as favorable, but you seem to have a lock on "favorable outcomes" don't you. Anything that doesn't kill you, makes you stronger? Achieve their potential?......please......you can certainly do better than that.

Edited December 20, 2010 by JustJoe

[jthorne]

I find discussing with you helps me understand myself and my situation better.

I know you think it is tacky for people to dig up people's old posts (as do I), but I wanted to make sure I got your terminology correct. So, I hope you will forgive this one-off:

What you are doing is consolidating my views, since you give me an opportunity to express them and strengthen them. Ironical is it not?

So which one is it? You seem to have a pretty good grasp of your affair. In fact, you often remind us of the fact that you know it far better than any of us could. So what is it specifically you are seeking to understand?

[Ellin]

I find understanding the psychology behind a fellow human being's actions far more interesting than to just condemn them. But that's me.

Not only more interesting, but also productive and freeing, contrary to just condemning.

 

Also wise words that you wrote about understanding why someone is acting in a certain destructive way, in order to be able to let go of it and concentrate on dealing with own issues.

 

Unfortunately the world around us, and especially the small world of LS OM/OW forum is full of people who have been hurt in some way by something to do with an A and instead of working on themselves towards letting go of their anger and hurt, which is the only way to help themselves, they spend much of their time and energy concentrating on the actions of others, seemingly trying to erase As from the face of the Earth.. They might just as well try to stop a river...

 

It amazes me what sort of things some posters write on your thread, including twisting and contradicting your own words and questioning the validity of your thread, in order to perhaps try and destroy the notion that someone could indeed be ok in an A...

 

Thank you for showing your perspective with consistency, strength and conviction.

[Ellin]

I asked him once why he had no problem hurting me when he has hurting his wife. He asked me if I wanted him to withhold the truth and not hurt me. I said no. That is our agreement, we are honest even when it hurts.

That's very interesting and food for thought.

 

Many OW think that MM's priority is with his W since it is her that he is "protecting" from the hurt of the truth.. But your above statement is really striking.. It puts the whole idea on its head..

[donnamaybe]

It amazes me what sort of things some posters write on your thread, including twisting and contradicting your own words and questioning the validity of your thread, in order to perhaps try and destroy the notion that someone could indeed be ok in an A...

I've seen many people claim to be "ok in an A" until the you-know-what hits the fan.