The wife has control over MM

[desertIslandCactus]

I'm sorry to put it that way but it sounds rather ridiculous to me that someone would need an annulment of M AFTER the death of the spouse. I have never come across such thing in any set of rules governing M, including all religions and their variations I've ever heard of.

 

Death of a spouse means the end of M in all religions, including Catholic.

 

From what I know, and I know pretty much about Catholics, Penney2's post is completely correct.

 

Could you please give some more details about these "deviations" and which alleged deviation abide by such rules? Thanks!

 

Ellin, The Bible even gives widows/widowers more freedom to remarry - over divorcees ..

[desertIslandCactus]

I'm sorry to put it that way but it sounds rather ridiculous to me that someone would need an annulment of M AFTER the death of the spouse. I have never come across such thing in any set of rules governing M, including all religions and their variations I've ever heard of.

 

Death of a spouse means the end of M in all religions, including Catholic.

 

From what I know, and I know pretty much about Catholics, Penney2's post is completely correct.

 

Could you please give some more details about these "deviations" and which alleged deviation abide by such rules? Thanks!

 

That is true. Death does mean the end of the marriage.

 

I just looked up grounds for annulment. They can be refusal to consumate the marriage, duress, mental incapacity, drugs, sexual preference, etc. Death of spouse is not among them.

[Ellin]

For heaven's sake - do you want my Uncle's name and address? Why in the f*ck would I lie about what HE told me? He is 72 years old, remarried 8 years ago and this is what he told me.

 

You and DIC can disagree all you want. I am telling you what HE TOLD ME. Don't believe me, it really doesn't matter to me one bit.

 

God. How freaking pathetic.

 

Thought so...

[Got it]

My sMM stayed married when he did for his reasons. The only thing stopping him from divorcing was him, not his wife. Shoot if she could control him to not divorce I am sure she would have controlled him not to have an affair.

[desertIslandCactus]

For heaven's sake - do you want my Uncle's name and address? Why in the f*ck would I lie about what HE told me? He is 72 years old, remarried 8 years ago and this is what he told me.

 

You and DIC can disagree all you want. I am telling you what HE TOLD ME. Don't believe me, it really doesn't matter to me one bit.

 

God. How freaking pathetic.

 

Why would we want his name and address??

 

Three people on here have said the Church doesn't ask for annulment for widows/widowers to remarry. And I have checked further about the grounds of annulment. Perhaps your relatives are isolated cases - or not.

 

Many of us state something as fact, based on people we know - but it doesn't always fly.

[White Flower]

My sMM stayed married when he did for his reasons. The only thing stopping him from divorcing was him, not his wife. Shoot if she could control him to not divorce I am sure she would have controlled him not to have an affair.

 

Interesting statement. I suppose it has more to do with how the W'S allows themselves to be controlled. He may put up with this kind of control because it's all in the name of love and family but he won't put up with that kind of control because it risks losing his masculinity, manhood, or whatever importance he attaches to it and deems unworthy of controlling by any other but himself.

 

Once exposed, he'll pretend to give up control until he's created another plan to regain that control.

[anne1707]

Interesting statement. I suppose it has more to do with how the W'S allows themselves to be controlled. He may put up with this kind of control because it's all in the name of love and family but he won't put up with that kind of control because it risks losing his masculinity, manhood, or whatever importance he attaches to it and deems unworthy of controlling by any other but himself.

 

Once exposed, he'll pretend to give up control until he's created another plan to regain that control.

 

Funny but I do not read Got It's post as saying the wife had any particular control over the husband. She clearly states that it was HIS choice to stay married and that the wife did not have control over him otherwise he would not have had the affair. Therefore he is not giving up control now. In fact as a former WS, I would say that I actually started taking back control of my life after dday.

[Got it]

Yep as Anne said. No one has control over someone else, I started off as a WS and knew/saw how easy it is to divorce. I understood why sMM WOULDN'T divorce for the timeline that he said, they were legitimate but we came to an agreed upon time period that I felt I could commit to and allow him time to work through things.

 

But stbxw never really played a factor in that. She didn't control him, he did what he pleased like most adults and prioritized as he saw fit. I wanted to, and got to know him, to look at how he structured his priorities and why. But the onus was on him, always was and even as we continue on, stays on him.

 

We did have a dday and at no point did he pass the buck to stbxw, not take responsibility for the aftermath, nor did he throw me under the bus. Not sure if I would have continued on with him if he didn't take full responsibility for his part of the affair and his decisions.

[White Flower]

Funny but I do not read Got It's post as saying the wife had any particular control over the husband. She clearly states that it was HIS choice to stay married and that the wife did not have control over him otherwise he would not have had the affair. Therefore he is not giving up control now. In fact as a former WS, I would say that I actually started taking back control of my life after dday.

 

I didn't answer Got it specifically. We are discussing control issues. Some MM clearly deal with these issues while others don't. To say that all Mp don't deal with controlling spouses is ignorant.

 

For those unhappy MP who overcome the controlling spouse, kudos to you. You are now worthy of being in my league. I overcame a controlling spouse myself. BTDT.

[OWoman]

For those unhappy MP who overcome the controlling spouse, kudos to you. You are now worthy of being in my league.

 

Amen to this

[anne1707]

I didn't answer Got it specifically. We are discussing control issues. Some MM clearly deal with these issues while others don't. To say that all Mp don't deal with controlling spouses is ignorant.

 

Seeing as you quoted Got It, I read it as you responding specifically to her. Plus if you were trying to argue that the WS is being controlled but in no specific reference to what one poster said, why use a quote that did not support your argument.

 

 

For those unhappy MP who overcome the controlling spouse, kudos to you. You are now worthy of being in my league. I overcame a controlling spouse myself. BTDT.

 

Well Got It has clearly stated that her MM was never controlled by the wife. Plus when I refer to taking back control of my life, that did not mean that my husband had control over me.

 

I had control prior to the affair but I lost hold of that through nobody's fault but my own. I allowed the affair to start and to continue. I could see people were being hurt but did not face up the decision I needed to make to stop all that mess. None of this was imposed on me. It was purely down to my weakness. When the affair ended, I started to regain control of me and my life again.

 

Maybe I am in a separate league to you

Edited January 2, 2011 by anne1707

[desertIslandCactus]

Seeing as you quoted Got It, I read it as you responding specifically to her. Plus if you were trying to argue that the WS is being controlled but in no specific reference to what one poster said, why use a quote that did not support your argument.

 

 

 

 

Well Got It has clearly stated that her MM was never controlled by the wife. Plus when I refer to taking back control of my life, that did not mean that my husband had control over me.

 

I had control prior to the affair but I lost hold of that through nobody's fault but my own. I allowed the affair to start and to continue. I could see people were being hurt but did not face up the decision I needed to make to stop all that mess. None of this was imposed on me. It was purely down to my weakness. When the affair ended, I started to regain control of me and my life again.

 

Maybe I am in a separate league to you

 

Interesting point Anne.

 

Those who Seek control of others (or ownership), complain that there is control in a Marriage ??

[Got it]

desert - what on earth do you mean?

 

anne - I don't feel, and you might only be referencing you, that having been in an affair I or he at any point lost control. We have control every day of what we do and our decisions. To me, saying one lost control, is passing the buck of responsibility. I own every decision I have made and in no way consider my affair a mistake or a regret.

 

Speaking for myself, I have very few regrets in my life. I may not always have a situation turn out the way I wanted but I usually have learned some important lessons from them and so I welcome those lessons.

[anne1707]

anne - I don't feel, and you might only be referencing you, that having been in an affair I or he at any point lost control. We have control every day of what we do and our decisions. To me, saying one lost control, is passing the buck of responsibility. I own every decision I have made and in no way consider my affair a mistake or a regret.

 

I was only speaking for myself

 

I guess I should explain more. Saying I lost control is maybe not quite right. It's more that I lost me. Like you, I acted based upon my decisions and I also take full responsibility for my actions. However I know I lost clarity and self-respect as the affair progressed. I knew I was hurting people. I knew that the ex-OM wanted me to make a decision and that my H was not getting all of me (after Dday, he said it explained why things had been so hard ). Ultimately I was the one person who not only had control over myself but also had control (to an extent) over two other people.

 

In the context of this thread, to suggest that my H had control over me is complete nonsense. How can somebody have control over another when they do not know about the massive betrayal they are being subjected to.

[White Flower]

Anne, sometimes the controlling behavior is just an issue all its own an never having anything to do with the WS being a WS.

 

You are aware that some spouses are controlling aren't you? Of course you are.

 

So it does not matter whether the BS knows they are being betrayed; they are either controlling in nature or not.

[White Flower]

Seeing as you quoted Got It, I read it as you responding specifically to her. Plus if you were trying to argue that the WS is being controlled but in no specific reference to what one poster said, why use a quote that did not support your argument.

 

 

Anne you can read it any way you like it. I didn't intend to quote Got It's situation as I was quoting the words on the subject. I think this has become an argument over syntax more than anything. Hope it hasn't confused you.

Edited January 3, 2011 by White Flower
Typo

[pureinheart]

Anne, sometimes the controlling behavior is just an issue all its own an never having anything to do with the WS being a WS.

 

You are aware that some spouses are controlling aren't you? Of course you are.

 

So it does not matter whether the BS knows they are being betrayed; they are either controlling in nature or not.

 

Oh most definitely. A controlling person doesn't just all of a sudden "become" controlling because of a discovered A.

Edited January 3, 2011 by pureinheart

[anne1707]

Anne, sometimes the controlling behavior is just an issue all its own an never having anything to do with the WS being a WS.

 

You are aware that some spouses are controlling aren't you? Of course you are.

 

So it does not matter whether the BS knows they are being betrayed; they are either controlling in nature or not.

 

WF - I am aware that some spouses are controlling just as I am sure you are aware that the tone of your post may be construed by some as patronising.

 

 

 

Anne you can read it any way you like it. I didn't intend to quote Got It's situation as I was quoting the words on the subject. I think this has become an argument over syntax more than anything. Hope it hasn't confused you.

 

Again another post that could be construed as patronising in tone. I am not at all confused and don't need any further attempt at explanation from you.

[donnamaybe]

What is what? You lost me.

The marriage.

 

Open? No. Not when BOTH parties aren't aware.

 

Closed? Nope, since one of them chooses to be a lying, sneaky POS.

 

So what is the marriage, then, in a situation where one party sneaks around and lies to their partner, f'ing someone else behind their back? The marriage is the WS's plaything.

 

Talk about controlling...

[White Flower]

The marriage.

 

Open? No. Not when BOTH parties aren't aware.

 

Closed? Nope, since one of them chooses to be a lying, sneaky POS.

 

So what is the marriage, then, in a situation where one party sneaks around and lies to their partner, f'ing someone else behind their back? The marriage is the WS's plaything.

 

Talk about controlling...

 

Thanks for clarifying.

 

Food for thought, not that it's right, but perhaps the cheating is the only area of life some cheaters have control over.

[2sunny]

Anne, sometimes the controlling behavior is just an issue all its own an never having anything to do with the WS being a WS.

 

You are aware that some spouses are controlling aren't you? Of course you are.

 

So it does not matter whether the BS knows they are being betrayed; they are either controlling in nature or not.

 

it never helps to try to fit the BS or WS into any category.

 

i WAS the BS - but my WH was always the one who controlled every little thing.

 

i would never be described by any friends as controlling in any way... in fact, quite the opposite.

 

so the one who cheated in our house is the one who had the control issues.

[2sunny]

Thanks for clarifying.

 

Food for thought, not that it's right, but perhaps the cheating is the only area of life some cheaters have control over.

 

or maybe some people just cheat... control issues or no control issues.

 

there are many that simply have cheating as a blatant character defect.

[White Flower]

*it never helps to try to fit the BS or WS into any category.*

 

i WAS the BS - but my WH was always the one who controlled every little thing.

 

i would never be described by any friends as controlling in any way... in fact, quite the opposite.

 

so the one who cheated in our house is the one who had the control issues.

I couldn't agree more.

 

or maybe some people just cheat... control issues or no control issues.

 

there are many that simply have cheating as a blatant character defect.

true enough. But I still stand by the fact that some will look for control in an affair and by having affairs.

[2sunny]

I couldn't agree more.

 

true enough. But I still stand by the fact that some will look for control in an affair and by having affairs.

 

 

well that is defiant behavior by the WS.

 

one can't have control over another - unless the other ALLOWS another to do the controlling.

[BB07]

IMO, the ws is the person who has the most control in an affair as they are the one who is deceitful and the one is manipulating two women/men into getting their needs met. They lie to both, either blatantly lying or lies of omission, but a lie is a lie, no?