I Grow a Little Weary of Stereotypes RE: BS

[bentnotbroken]

There seem to be an awful lot of stereotypes going on in this thread too towards the OW.

Actually I've noticed there seems to be a lot thrown the way of the OW on LS. I guess a lot of its projecting.

I get slightly weary of all the anger thats thrown our way and these type of stereotypes. It amazes me sometimes the pure nastiness that is directed at OW even when seemingly the MM has been forgiven! How does that work then?

 

Perhaps theres a lesson for everyone, if people dont care for stereotypes lets all stop perpetuating them.

 

 

And what are you refering to?

[Summer Breeze]

There seem to be an awful lot of stereotypes going on in this thread too towards the OW.

Actually I've noticed there seems to be a lot thrown the way of the OW on LS. I guess a lot of its projecting.

I get slightly weary of all the anger thats thrown our way and these type of stereotypes. It amazes me sometimes the pure nastiness that is directed at OW even when seemingly the MM has been forgiven! How does that work then?

 

Perhaps theres a lesson for everyone, if people dont care for stereotypes lets all stop perpetuating them.

 

I'm with you girl. I hate stereotypes of both and in this forum they're thrown about like snowballs on a playground. The problem is neither side sees they're doing the throwing. BS on this forum are more vocal about the stereotypes of OW than vice versa. I understand why because sometimes you just want to do the whole tough love thing, but it's there and it's as cutting to OW as it is to BS.

 

As for no dysfunction in your Ms whil the WS was playing away. If it helps you sleep at night. There was so much dysfunction in mine and every M that's been violated by an A it's not funny. Blinkers may keep you from seeing it but IMO it's there.

[Summer Breeze]

Nothing Important.

 

Yet another little barb thrown out with the sole intention of hurting people. I'm sure it'd go down well if the OW started making comments that BS weren't important.

 

And if anyone has to question what secret was saying then they're not really reading and listening to all sides on this board. Note the word 'listening'. Listen, don't hear and see what YOU want to see and hear because that's the first step to stereotyping. Just because YOU don't like what someone else has for a R and it doesn't match with yours doesn't make it nonexistent-like fooled once has implied.

 

I couldn't have reconciled with my H after he had an A but it doesn't mean I don't think it couldn't happen for others.

[Snowflower]

Spark, with all due respect, you were lucky that the A only lasted a few months and by that I am not discrediting the hurt and pain you still went through.

 

I think you may find though that when the A has been for a considerable amount of time, at least over a year, you do tend to get to know the AP pretty well (certainly not as well as a H or W that has been with them for a very long time). In my situation, I knew the reasons he was unhappy as they were the for the same reasons I was also unhappy in my M. That's was a big part of where we understood each other, we did things for each other that made us incredibly happy.

 

I don't think for one minute that a W is a Martyr for taking back her WH. The main thing I do question (and this is in relation to my situation only) is

that knowing he had such an intimate relationship with another woman for 2 years, how on earth his W could get over it. In all honesty, he has not told her everything, rug sweeps and minimises to reduce to pain. He had an extremely difficult time ending our relationship to return home and I believes still battles with it a year later. He realised that he did not want to lose his family and that includes his W. Now whether he really intimately loves his W deeply or whether it is the type of love where he really cares for her, we will never know, only he does.

 

I love my xH and care for him very much, but certainly not enough to ever want to make the M work again. Once I had experienced the feelings I had with xMM, I knew that I couldn't have that again that with my xH.

 

I am very pleased for you that you are doing all that you can to keep your M together. Please don't think that all OW think along the same lines, some are just confused about being dumped and look for a small crack, something to grasp onto.

 

Sorry for the ramble...

 

September, what a great post! I wanted to bring what you wrote back up because you said a lot of honest things about your situation and from your perspective.

 

Thank you so much for sharing this. I hope that maybe it will bring some level of understanding to a BW who is struggling through the aftermath of her husband's affair.

 

Very insightful.

[Snowflower]

I'm with you girl. I hate stereotypes of both and in this forum they're thrown about like snowballs on a playground. The problem is neither side sees they're doing the throwing. BS on this forum are more vocal about the stereotypes of OW than vice versa. I understand why because sometimes you just want to do the whole tough love thing, but it's there and it's as cutting to OW as it is to BS.

 

As for no dysfunction in your Ms whil the WS was playing away. If it helps you sleep at night. There was so much dysfunction in mine and every M that's been violated by an A it's not funny. Blinkers may keep you from seeing it but IMO it's there.

 

IMO, the stereotypes go both ways. I think sometimes both the BW and the OW don't even realize that they are perpetrating the mindset.

 

For example, IMO for the bolded part above is an interesting statement. I read the thread again and no BS said anything about the marriage not having a dysfunction during the affair. So why was this brought up? Is this another case of the stereotypical BW "turning a blind eye to what is really going on?"

 

I realize what I wrote sounds snarky and I don't mean for it to come across this way. But I am confused by this statement.

[bentnotbroken]

I'm with you girl. I hate stereotypes of both and in this forum they're thrown about like snowballs on a playground. The problem is neither side sees they're doing the throwing. BS on this forum are more vocal about the stereotypes of OW than vice versa. I understand why because sometimes you just want to do the whole tough love thing, but it's there and it's as cutting to OW as it is to BS.

 

As for no dysfunction in your Ms whil the WS was playing away. If it helps you sleep at night. There was so much dysfunction in mine and every M that's been violated by an A it's not funny. Blinkers may keep you from seeing it but IMO it's there.

 

Where oh where did anyone say their marriage didn't have issues? Some how the revisionist view of what was said is in play. I don't know about the rest of the posters but when I spoke of the OW I spoke only of MY situation and I also stated that some of the stereotypes about BS are true fro some BS. By the same token the stereotypes for some AP are also true. Those blinkers don't just come in one size and they all don't have BS engraved on them...some of them have AP engraved.

[Spark1111]

There seem to be an awful lot of stereotypes going on in this thread too towards the OW.

Actually I've noticed there seems to be a lot thrown the way of the OW on LS. I guess a lot of its projecting.

I get slightly weary of all the anger thats thrown our way and these type of stereotypes. It amazes me sometimes the pure nastiness that is directed at OW even when seemingly the MM has been forgiven! How does that work then?

 

Perhaps theres a lesson for everyone, if people dont care for stereotypes lets all stop perpetuating them.

 

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

 

Every single BS here has spoken honestly about what confused, delusional, selfish lying sacks the WSs are.

 

I felt only empathy in my heart for the fOW in my sitch, initially.

 

Where do you see projection?

[Spark1111]

IMO, the stereotypes go both ways. I think sometimes both the BW and the OW don't even realize that they are perpetrating the mindset.

 

For example, IMO for the bolded part above is an interesting statement. I read the thread again and no BS said anything about the marriage not having a dysfunction during the affair. So why was this brought up? Is this another case of the stereotypical BW "turning a blind eye to what is really going on?"

 

I realize what I wrote sounds snarky and I don't mean for it to come across this way. But I am confused by this statement.

 

No snarkier than the comment you quoted.

 

And I will step out on a limb here.

 

My marriage WAS NOT dysfunctional.

 

My depressed H was.

 

He takes full responsibility for the affair, his decision to cheat, his mindset that made it easier to blame me and the marriage, than to fix himself.

 

We have been through a lot of IC and MC to arrive at this point. I was open to all I could have done better or differently pre-affair to avoid the pain of this. Many, many professionals and my H himself, have concluded....

 

It wasn't me....It WAS him.

[2themoon&back]

Anyone else?

 

Our marriages are dysfunctional; our fWS return to the dysfunction because they can't or won't give up their children, their finances, their status quo.....blah, blah, blah....

 

They appear oh-so-noble to their former OW/OM as they end their affairs to give their marriage one more go...to wallow in sadness as they abandon their "true love" to be quietly miserable with their spouse and their families in an attempt to be the better man.

 

Does anyone else think this standard line from the affair script is as much a bunch of bunk as I do?

 

Does anyone else question WHY, oh why this is the preferred leaving line and WHY oh why so many APs believe it?

 

I personally believe this strategy does two things: Let's the AP down as easy as possible while ending the relationship AND keeps the glorious delusion alive of your MP taking the high road to keep his/her family unknowing of their personal misery but still intact.

 

I've know my fWS since he was 17! I knew he was stressed, unhappy, distant, and really, really odd, mostly angry during his affair.

 

WE, all of us, chalked it up to the stress of a new high-powered postion, one we had prayed for him to get after several years of illness and unemployment and subsequent depression.

 

Now some may turn a blind eye to the marital relationship, but that is really none of the smart, funny, self-sufficient women I know.

 

Most women want and demand more in their personal relationships these days.

 

Why would anyone believe a woman would want an unhappy spouse sacrificing himself to do the right thing by his family? Why would anyone believe we/I would not be asking every ten minutes, "What is wrong? Why do you seem so unhappy?"

 

What is this? The 1950s?

 

Why doesn't everyone acknowledge there are two, maybe three sides to the story you have been told about this terrible relationship, the one he or she returned to at the expense of "true love?"

 

Spark, let me start with I have high respect for you.

 

Now to answer the questions at hand,

 

I do not think there is any place for blanket thinking, I do believe the theory that there are always 3 sides of any situation, his side, her side and somewhere in the middle of that lies the truth.

 

I know for fact in my own life all BS’s are not the same, I have been one and I know not all OW’s are not the same, been that too, hence people are not the same and thank goodness for their differences.

 

I think any stereotyping of any sort if foolish and unwise. I choose to believe this and I also think everyone choose to believe what suits them best at the time to meet the needs of what they are doing.

 

Perception is Everything!

 

When I refer to my xMM’s BS it is from my own RL experience not from anything he ever told me, my experiences are the only truth I have IMHO.

[Spark1111]

Spark, let me start with I have high respect for you.

 

Now to answer the questions at hand,

 

I do not think there is any place for blanket thinking, I do believe the theory that there are always 3 sides of any situation, his side, her side and somewhere in the middle of that lies the truth.

 

I know for fact in my own life all BS’s are not the same, I have been one and I know not all OW’s are not the same, been that too, hence people are not the same and thank goodness for their differences.

 

I think any stereotyping of any sort if foolish and unwise. I choose to believe this and I also think everyone choose to believe what suits them best at the time to meet the needs of what they are doing.

 

Perception is Everything!

 

When I refer to my xMM’s BS it is from my own RL experience not from anything he ever told me, my experiences are the only truth I have IMHO.

 

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this!

 

It is very wise and it is the point I am trying to hammer at:

 

We all only know what we have been told.

 

We have no true means to verify.

 

Often, the source of our information is the very person who has to most to lose by being completely truthful to both the AP and the BS.

 

This is obvious to me. I want it to be obvious to others. Open up your minds and stop using the marriage or the spouse as an excuse.....because you do not, will not ever know the truth of that relationship.

 

You are only hearing one side of the story.

 

I tried to hear the other side of the story. I called her three times after DDAy....about 8 months later.

 

She wouldn't return my call. Why? Why protect him still? Why be afraid of me? Because she STILL needed to believe I was the big bad wifey who would harm her somehow? Or, she couldn't own her actions?

[Spark1111]

Or, was it just easier to believe he had returned for the sake of the kids and there was no way she wanted me to become a real, living, breathing compassionate woman for her....

 

That might have burst her affair rememberances....BS turns out to be ACTUALLY a really nice person.

[katielee]

I KNOW the OMW was a nice person. He told me once how great she was and that there was no reason for him doing this. It was at that time that I stepped away and told him I could be the one who ended this. At no time was leaving our families ever on the table. We said we loved each other but really, when you love someone do you put their family in jeopardy?

[Spark1111]

I KNOW the OMW was a nice person. He told me once how great she was and that there was no reason for him doing this. It was at that time that I stepped away and told him I could be the one who ended this. At no time was leaving our families ever on the table. We said we loved each other but really, when you love someone do you put their family in jeopardy?

 

I think this is very insightful in realizing how devastated families can be, and if you truly love someone WHY would you put their family in jeopardy.

 

But if you are a single AP, wouldn't you want more? Wouldn't you want your MP to leave their spouse for you and your children?

 

I mean there really seems to be many posts about the hope of these promises. And yes, someone's family will be hurt.

[fooled once]

There seem to be an awful lot of stereotypes going on in this thread too towards the OW.

Actually I've noticed there seems to be a lot thrown the way of the OW on LS. I guess a lot of its projecting.

I get slightly weary of all the anger thats thrown our way and these type of stereotypes. It amazes me sometimes the pure nastiness that is directed at OW even when seemingly the MM has been forgiven! How does that work then?

 

Perhaps theres a lesson for everyone, if people dont care for stereotypes lets all stop perpetuating them.

 

Interesting, as this is the INFIDELITY forum. This forum should be where the betrayed spouses are able to freely express their thoughts/views without the constant poking by so many OW, who love to come in here and start antagonizing the betrayed spouses when they post. It is a constant issue, and you also proved that point by complaining about how the OW are being stereotyped. Do you not read the thread in the OW/OM forum? Is that stereo-typing towards the BS's there or is that how the BS's are, according to OW who for the most part know nothing except what they are told by the cheater. Do you not see the nastiness directed towards the only truly innocent person in the affair triangle, the betrayed spouse, that is spouted in the OW/OM forum? Why would the MM need to 'forgive' his mistress? Why do you think a betrayed spouse needs to be caring and loving towards a woman who wantonly inserted herself into a marriage? Why should a betrayed spouse forgive a woman who knowingly slept with the husband of the betrayed wife? Are you serious?

 

I'm with you girl. I hate stereotypes of both and in this forum they're thrown about like snowballs on a playground. The problem is neither side sees they're doing the throwing. BS on this forum are more vocal about the stereotypes of OW than vice versa. I understand why because sometimes you just want to do the whole tough love thing, but it's there and it's as cutting to OW as it is to BS.

 

As for no dysfunction in your Ms whil the WS was playing away. If it helps you sleep at night. There was so much dysfunction in mine and every M that's been violated by an A it's not funny. Blinkers may keep you from seeing it but IMO it's there.

 

So you are saying that the OW doesn't see what they are doing by sleeping with a married person? You really believe that the OW are more innocent of throwing barbs? Could it be because they know the cheater is married, whereas the betrayed spouse doesn't know they are married to a cheater? Could it be that the only one not clued into the affair is the betrayed spouse? I mean, the OW/mistress knows the MM is married. They know they are sleeping with a married person. But they admit they don't have self control. They admit that they don't care if the wife/kids get hurt. MANY times a betrayed spouse is willing to boot the cheater once it is brought to her attention. Yet instead, the cheater lies, as does the mistress. Why is that, since they seem to think they have such a strong love?

 

WHO said married couples don't have dysfunction? Were you comments meant to be intentionally snarky? That wouldn't be STEREO TYPING or possibly - POSSIBLY - taking a jab/throwing a snowball at someone else's marriage?? Did you know that many times there is NO dysfunction in the marriage, but in the cheater. Really - that is where the dysfunction is.

 

No one can make another person cheat nor make another person be faithful. That is within each person - their ethics, their morality, their make up. It is called personal responsibility and CHOICES. People make choices to cheat. People make choices to continue having an affair. People make choices. Sure would be nice if the cheater and his/her affair partner clued the betrayed spouse into their lack of self control so that the betrayed spouse could determine THEIR OWN LIFE without having an interloper and a cheater deciding it for her/him

 

Yet another little barb thrown out with the sole intention of hurting people. I'm sure it'd go down well if the OW started making comments that BS weren't important.

 

And if anyone has to question what secret was saying then they're not really reading and listening to all sides on this board. Note the word 'listening'. Listen, don't hear and see what YOU want to see and hear because that's the first step to stereotyping. Just because YOU don't like what someone else has for a R and it doesn't match with yours doesn't make it nonexistent-like fooled once has implied.

 

I couldn't have reconciled with my H after he had an A but it doesn't mean I don't think it couldn't happen for others.

 

As opposed to your barbs that you threw out? You honestly do not see the comments that are made, almost daily, by OW that the BS isn't important? Do you honestly not see that the very act of sleeping with someone elses spouse screams "I don't care about you - I only care about me"?? Wow.

 

And now people are supposed to assume that someone's words mean something else? Gotcha. Be happy that a mistress is sleeping with your husband. Forgiver her utter lack of self control. Don't be mad at her. Forgive her. Hand your husband over to her. Oh and when an OW writes snarky comments, it is your fault for not understanding that wasn't how she meant it. Gotcha.

 

You couldn't reconcile with your husband if he had an affair, but you have no problem sleeping with someone else's husband, and you believe he doesn't go home and rock her world at night? You are okay with him making love to her, holding her, caressing her, and planning a future with her. That isn't being unfailthful to you - right - because he doesn't love her, she means nothing to him and he wants to be with you ... but he just can't right now because.....

 

Gotcha.

 

Aww, poor thing. Have you ever heard if you don't want to get burned, don't touch the fire?

 

The big difference is a BS never willingly became a BS. The OW in most affairs knows she's with a MM. Nastiness is what you bring upon yourself by your actions.

 

I suggest you stop stamping your feet and take your temper tantrum where it's more effective.

 

I agree

[Jonah]

Instead of being stereotyped, perhaps you are just in denial...

The responses you refer to seem fairly accurate to me. They call them like they see them from the perspective of the responder. You should take heed of their call, for what motive is there to pull your leg? If most are calling it one way... that could very well be the way it is if you are feeding complete and accurate information. It is not difficult to see through the spin you are trying to put on the situations. Reality is what it is.

[East7]

I didn't read everything on the thread but what I can say is that the stereotypes about the BS or the WS-BS relationship are often portrayed by the WS themselves.

It all depends how the WS portrays the BS to the OP. They tell OP "Me and my wife are distant, we dont sleep together anymore, I love you more ect ect". There is so much trust between OP and WS than the OP believes this at face value. This is also what an OP likes to hear.

That's why I believe that it is not a bad thing that OP and BS talk after D-day and give their respective side of the story.

[bentnotbroken]

I didn't read everything on the thread but what I can say is that the stereotypes about the BS or the WS-BS relationship are often portrayed by the WS themselves.

It all depends how the WS portrays the BS to the OP. They tell OP "Me and my wife are distant, we dont sleep together anymore, I love you more ect ect". There is so much trust between OP and WS than the OP believes this at face value. This is also what an OP likes to hear.

That's why I believe that it is not a bad thing that OP and BS talk after D-day and give their respective side of the story.

 

 

I believe that is the point that Spark was trying to make. The WS DOES LIE to the AP. And the lies are so full of crap that it is almost hysterical.

[Spark1111]

I didn't read everything on the thread but what I can say is that the stereotypes about the BS or the WS-BS relationship are often portrayed by the WS themselves.

It all depends how the WS portrays the BS to the OP. They tell OP "Me and my wife are distant, we dont sleep together anymore, I love you more ect ect". There is so much trust between OP and WS than the OP believes this at face value. This is also what an OP likes to hear.

That's why I believe that it is not a bad thing that OP and BS talk after D-day and give their respective side of the story.

 

So East, can you enlighten me as to why so many do not?

 

That often, the advice is: "It's between them now. She/He should be getting their answers from their spouse. It has nothing to do with you.

 

When I finally spoke to the OW in my sitch, only because I called her at work where she could NO LONGER avoid me, did we speak.

 

And I was amazed that she did not have ONE question for me. Not a single one.

[East7]

[/b]

 

So East, can you enlighten me as to why so many do not?

 

That often, the advice is: "It's between them now. She/He should be getting their answers from their spouse. It has nothing to do with you.

 

When I finally spoke to the OW in my sitch, only because I called her at work where she could NO LONGER avoid me, did we speak.

 

And I was amazed that she did not have ONE question for me. Not a single one.

 

Hi Spark,

well I can only guess, I have read a lot about your story but I can't pretend to know what was in the OW's mind. Here are some suggestions :

 

1. It depends if you contacted her before or after your H came back home. If it was before she was in conflict avoidance as she considered you as an "enemy" that wants her H back. If it was after, I think it is more jealousy, pain or considering you like you wanted to take some revenge.

 

2. Maybe she didn't ask you any question because she wanted to believe till the end that what your H told her before leaving was always the truth and she didn't (or avoided) to know anything else.

 

3. Another possibility is that she still had hopes about him and talking with you would have been a final closure that she wanted to avoid. Maybe she didn't want your H to know that you 2 have talked because she was afraid that he would hate her for talking with you. She was in a protective attitude.

 

Again all this are guesses.

 

My xMW had a half-Dday (red flags and doubts but not the real truth). She panicked and told me "If he calls you DO NOT say anything, just avoid him".

 

4.Maybe your H left the same kind of instructions to OW, telling her to not ever talk to you, and she kept the promise.

 

 

What I have noticed in most of affairs is the deep trust and credit that OWs put on their MM's words. That's why their deception and pain is real.

[someday]

I think everyone in the triangle goes thru a process of healing from however the situation may play out and I think it’s a natural process of healing to seriously entertain thoughts/beliefs that you may not hold dear to your heart.

 

In my situation it was just plain easier *at the time* to hate on the xOW…it was easier for me to deal with the pain and the Rec…and probably because she made it so easy to hate on her. That was years ago, now I can honestly say that I don’t hate her. It took me a while and a lot of soul searching to accept in my heart (not just my mind) that this betrayal of me was completely my H’s betrayal of me. I had to separate this out in my head and in my heart before I could really start to put my ugly feelings towards her to rest.

 

That’s not to say that I like her, I truly do not like this person. Not only because of her part in the A but also because of her actions towards me during and following the A. She has shown herself to be someone I could never have respect for, her actions showed me this not my H’s words. I can make up my own mind on this subject.

 

There will always be stereotypes out there. Not only for the A type of situations but for millions and millions of other situations as well. Short, fat, tall, thin, color of skin, age, religion, disposition, status… you name it and there IS a stereotype for it. I doubt that any of that will change in my or my children’s life time…probably not even in their grandchildren’s life time…

[wheelwright]

Ok, I believe you. If a woman is not engaged emotionally, she does not want sex.

 

But a man? A man doesn't need a reason, he needs a place, as the old line goes.

 

So, tell me this isn't the height of delusion?

 

His OW asks him if we still have sex.

 

He replies rarely to never, taking one look at the expression on her face.

 

(we had sex at least twice a week during the affair. Nothing to write home about, but we still had it, knowwhatImean?_

 

If I find this was true about my xMOM (which I doubt as he made a huge song and dance for all who wanted to hear about a sexual encounter that happened 6 mnths later) I would eat my hat and well what else do you do?

 

I feel silly, as it seems eating my hat is the only way I can show it.

 

I would be surprised.

 

Are hats tasty? Are they better than lies?

[wheelwright]

As an OW, I have found it hard to let go of xMOM.

 

One thing that makes it easier, is imagining him in a happy and sexual R with his W.

 

The other is imagining him happy without me knowing how.

 

That's how it is for me.

[wheelwright]

Except when I feel bad he isn't with me!

[ComputerJock]

If I find this was true about my xMOM (which I doubt as he made a huge song and dance for all who wanted to hear about a sexual encounter that happened 6 mnths later) I would eat my hat and well what else do you do?

 

I feel silly, as it seems eating my hat is the only way I can show it.

 

I would be surprised.

 

Are hats tasty? Are they better than lies?

 

WW Were you the sexual encounter and are you still with BH?

[Summer Breeze]

IMO, the stereotypes go both ways. I think sometimes both the BW and the OW don't even realize that they are perpetrating the mindset.

 

For example, IMO for the bolded part above is an interesting statement. I read the thread again and no BS said anything about the marriage not having a dysfunction during the affair. So why was this brought up? Is this another case of the stereotypical BW "turning a blind eye to what is really going on?"

 

I realize what I wrote sounds snarky and I don't mean for it to come across this way. But I am confused by this statement.

 

I absolutely agree with your first sentence and it's why I posted to the contrary. I've been both and my heart has ached by being both.

 

Dysfunction-see post 16 by Spark. It's something I see as a recurring theme on here that there is no dysfunction and the M is wonderful. Maybe they are but I don't believe it. When my H cheated there was loads of dysfunction even though I didn't see it all at the time.