"Awkward."

[tigressA]

You're screwing all these other guys, so why didn't I get invited to the party? Waaa, waaa waaa!

 

LOL, when you put it that way...

 

I know deep down what I should do. Now that there's an acknowledged mutual attraction, with a deep friendship backing it, but also the fact that we wouldn't date (due more to him than me) and that we're both looking for something long-term, not 'casual'--it's clear that I shouldn't ever go visit him again. I should just keep the friendship online, if even that. I know that if we hooked up (and we would if I went to see him), I would fall for him and nothing more would happen and I would be back here posting all about my wretchedness.

[northern_sky]

if even that.

 

Really, this guy doesn't even sound like friendship material.

[tigressA]

Really, this guy doesn't even sound like friendship material.

 

I definitely would not go that far. I do consider him a very dear friend. We've helped each other through a lot and confide in each other.

 

Something that might help explain your points, NS--he is a recovering drug addict, clean for over 18 months. And of course, drug addicts tend to be quite manipulative and narcissistic. He's admitted more than once to me that he still has a lot of work to do with regard to subduing his ego. Something else that was said when we talked: I said our hooking up would be inevitable if I came to see him again. He said, "Unless we were in a standoff again. Our egos are too huge for either of us to make the first move." And it was true of us the first time around--neither of us wanted to be the one to potentially embarrass ourselves.

[northern_sky]

I definitely would not go that far. I do consider him a very dear friend. We've helped each other through a lot and confide in each other.

 

Something that might help explain your points, NS--he is a recovering drug addict, clean for over 18 months. And of course, drug addicts tend to be quite manipulative and narcissistic. He's admitted more than once to me that he still has a lot of work to do with regard to subduing his ego. Something else that was said when we talked: I said our hooking up would be inevitable if I came to see him again. He said, "Unless we were in a standoff again. Our egos are too huge for either of us to make the first move." And it was true of us the first time around--neither of us wanted to be the one to potentially embarrass ourselves.

 

Wow, he's a recovering drug addict, and he's pulling out a list on you?

 

That said, I can't really fault you for staying friends with him, since I've done and am doing the same. Just be aware that he comes with drama.

[tigressA]

Wow, he's a recovering drug addict, and he's pulling out a list on you?

 

That said, I can't really fault you for staying friends with him, since I've done and am doing the same. Just be aware that he comes with drama.

 

You're making too much out of the 'list' thing. I understand where he's coming from on that now...he knows himself and what he wants/needs from someone he'd be in a relationship with, and he knows me well enough that I don't meet enough of those things for it to be a healthy relationship for him. It's just the way it is. The way he brought it up last night made it sound condescending, but since he clarified earlier I get it now.

 

This isn't to say that I want a relationship with him, though I do know myself well enough that if we became physically intimate, I'd "catch feelings" and want it to be more, which would just cause drama.

[tigressA]

We've come to the end of the line. A choice has to be made. We talked about it again today and the bottom line is that if I decide I want to be more than friends, the friendship will suffer. He said that if it stays online only then he just won't be that invested in it. He said, "I don't want a friend who I would have to avoid seeing in person. That's not a good dynamic for me." Boundaries, as Carhill routinely states...

 

He said that whatever I decide he'll respect. He wants me to take whatever time I need to think through it and make my choice.

 

I love him as my friend; I feel really sad at the idea of giving up our friendship. I was in tears talking to him earlier today. But then I worry about the possible fallout due to seeing each other again. It's folly to worry about something I don't even know will happen, though. It does take two to tango.

[tigressA]

I gave it a few days and I called him a little while ago. He hadn't been online since we last talked; I guess he was waiting for me to contact him. I told him that I want to stay friends. He asked about seeing each other and I said, "Since I want to be your friend, I'm not going to do anything. And even if I did, it's not like you have to just sit back and accept it if you don't want to."

 

He thanked me for telling him and now apparently he wants some time to think through things. This is where I'm going "WTF?" because before, he had said that he would respect whatever choice I made--he made it seem like everything hinged on what I decided. And why wouldn't he have just thought through it these last few days like I had? Argh.

[Art_Critic]

This is where I'm going "WTF?"

 

Harry: You realize of course that we could never be friends.

Sally: Why not?

Harry: What I'm saying is — and this is not a come-on in any way, shape or form — is that men and women can't be friends because the sex part always gets in the way.

Sally: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.

Harry: No you don't.

Sally:Yes I do.

Harry: No you don't.

Sally: Yes I do.

Harry: You only think you do.

Sally: You say I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?

Harry: No, what I'm saying is they all want to have sex with you.

Sally: They do not.

Harry: Do too.

Sally: They do not.

Harry: Do too.

Sally: How do you know?

Harry: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.

Sally: So you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive?

Harry: No, you pretty much want to nail 'em too.

Sally: What if they don't want to have sex with you?

Harry: Doesn't matter because the sex thing is already out there so the friendship is ultimately doomed and that is the end of the story.

Sally: Well, I guess we're not going to be friends then.

Harry: Guess not.

Sally: That's too bad. You were the only person that I knew in New York

[tigressA]

I love that movie.

[Star Gazer]

Sally: You say I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?

 

Ha! I think I've actually used that same line on LS!

[tigressA]

I really don't know what he's going to end up telling me. I'd rather have him as a friend than not have him in my life at all, but I just have a feeling I may have to get used to not having him in my life. I can't think about that at all without my eyes starting to well up.

[tigressA]

We've been talking more regularly again and have made plans for me to visit the weekend of the 28th. Everything is out there between us now, and the first/last time I was there you could cut the tension with a knife.

 

I know my base desire is for us to hook up. If we did, it likely wouldn't be anything more than that, and I would want it to be more than that. "Forcing his hand" is pointless; I highly doubt he'll get vulnerable and break down and say that his feelings for me are deeper than what he's already admitted to. I don't suspect that they're anything more than what he's told me.

 

So I either

1) Control my impulses and refrain from any intimacy when we see each other so as to keep the friendship.

 

2) Say "To hell with it", hook up with him, and see what happens.

[northern_sky]

We've been talking more regularly again and have made plans for me to visit the weekend of the 28th. Everything is out there between us now, and the first/last time I was there you could cut the tension with a knife.

 

I know my base desire is for us to hook up. If we did, it likely wouldn't be anything more than that, and I would want it to be more than that. "Forcing his hand" is pointless; I highly doubt he'll get vulnerable and break down and say that his feelings for me are deeper than what he's already admitted to. I don't suspect that they're anything more than what he's told me.

 

So I either

1) Control my impulses and refrain from any intimacy when we see each other so as to keep the friendship.

 

2) Say "To hell with it", hook up with him, and see what happens.

 

If you do visit with him, I think you will hook up whatever your intentions. I'm not saying you lack self control, but I do think it is damn near impossible to stay over a guy's house, knowing you both find each other very attractive, and NOT hook up. Last time you guys almost did, and now it will be even harder cause it's all out in the open.

 

Why not hang out in public, like spend a day to each other going around a city? Or if you go to his house, at least don't stay overnight?

[tigressA]

Yeah, about the circumstances surrounding our get-togethers...we've lived fairly far apart from each other, and even more so now since he moved into his own place late last month in another state further south. Where I live isn't ripe with activities/fun places to go, and I still don't drive yet. It would be much more impractical trying to plan a daylong outing rather than a weekend-long visit. I wouldn't entertain visiting with him for a whole weekend if it wasn't such a tremendous pain in the ass to plan something else. So believe me when I say we've tried to plan like that for the two of us and it just hasn't worked out, period. The only time it worked out was when we were in a group. I went with one of my friends, so I had an easy way there and back because they were driving.

Edited January 13, 2011 by tigressA

[northern_sky]

Yeah, about the circumstances surrounding our get-togethers...we've lived fairly far apart from each other, and even more so now since he moved into his own place late last month in another state further south. Where I live isn't ripe with activities/fun places to go, and I still don't drive yet. It would be much more impractical trying to plan a daylong outing rather than a weekend-long visit. I wouldn't entertain visiting with him for a whole weekend if it wasn't such a tremendous pain in the ass to plan something else.

 

hmm. well, that sucks.

 

Do you see you guys living closer any time in the future? If not, you have to consider whether this friendship is worth maintaining given the distance and the sexual frustration + possibility of hurt feelings.

 

If you don't mind, I'm curious about a few things.

 

1) How many close friends do you have nearby? You sound sort of isolated, and I wonder if this is affecting your attitude on the importance of this friendship.

 

2) Is there something unique you feel about the connection you have? Do you think if you had more close friends you would care about maintaining this despite the hurdles?

 

3) How much has he expressed valuing the friendship to you and in what words?

 

4) will you feel weird if he gets a girlfriend? will you guys even be able to hang out anymore?

 

It's entirely possible that you guys have a unique connection worth keeping. I just don't know based on what you've said.

 

I can really relate to what you're going through here, because of my recent experience trying to stay friends with someone for whom I have romantic feelings. Ultimately, I have decided that our connection is strong and unique enough that the friendship is not something I am willing to give up just yet, despite the sporadic frustration it causes me. This is the first time I've ever decided the pros of an unrequited friendship outweigh the cons, so I have no idea how it's going to work out in the end.

 

EDIT: One more thing I forgot to add. I find it a bit strange that he is unwilling to maintain an online or long distance friendship with you. I have a couple of friends who I mostly talk to online or over the phone because the distance between us is impractical. I still find that we derive a lot of mutual satisfaction out of our connection. In fact I have one LS friend that I've known for years, talk to almost every day, and we've never met because we live thousands of miles apart, but she is one of my closest friends. I have another LS friend whom I made this year, who lives across the world, but we are still able to connect through email.

Edited January 13, 2011 by northern_sky

[tigressA]

1) I do have some close friends nearby and I get together with them as often as I can manage. It's not a whole lot, but it's enough. This is the main reason why I'm working toward my license and getting a car--increasing my mobility will do wonders for my social life.

 

2) We do have a unique connection. We don't coddle each other. We're very comfortable in saying what we truly feel and don't really care about possibly offending each other. He's said some stuff to really piss me off before, but always in retrospect I'm OK with it because at least he feels comfortable enough with me to be bluntly honest. I've been close with him even when my social circumstances were "better" than they are now, so yes, I have always been interested in maintaining closeness and will be for the foreseeable future.

 

3) He does value our friendship a lot, but he has also said he doesn't see the point/healthiness in maintaining a "friendship" that would involve having to avoid seeing each other, and I really agree with him on that. Though we hadn't met in person until months after we first started talking, there was always that expectation that yes, one day we would meet up and hang out, and if that went well we'd subsequently meet up as often as could be managed by both of us. The big difference between what you put down as an edit and my own situation, NS, is that you wouldn't have to avoid seeing those people in order to not have things possibly be awkward between you or whatever.

 

I am considering moving to a more urban area an hour away from where I am now. It would be closer to him, but not by a whole lot, and it wouldn't be for another year or so.

 

I'm not really frustrated at all by how things are now, but I suspect I will be if we get physical.

Edited January 13, 2011 by tigressA