wanting on an open marriage,wife isn't sure

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Really sad how you came here with an issue that many of us can not relate too and then get upset when we all don't jump and congratulate you for your stand.

 

A happy marriage, a wife you love and loves you back, you find beautiful and attractive and yet you don't want to have sex with despite her cravings and your high libido......

 

The funny thing is you no more then dipped your toe into the swinging lifestyle, yet are obsessed by it to an almost pathological extent that has affected your ability to have a normal sex life.

 

Some of us are downright pissed (at least I am) reading your posts and you having the ready, able and willing wife and you pissing on it because you want to "swing"......

[xxoo]

Some of us are downright pissed (at least I am) reading your posts and you having the ready, able and willing wife and you pissing on it because you want to "swing"......

 

It upsets me, too, but coming from the wife's angle. We are about the same age, married about the same amt of time. I would be devastated if my H found sex with me too dull to have regularly, but wanted sex with others. It would be a hit to the old self-esteem for sure.....

 

I'm not morally opposed to swinging in any way (for others...it just isn't for us), but I can't see any wife feeling good about their partner NEEDING others in order to want sex with her.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

xxoo - It is ludicrous that this thread drives me crazy. He does not even from what I have read want another partner necessarily, but moreso got off hearing her stories and phone sex.....

 

Remember there was only 3 actual contacts with another woman (once a threesome with donutman) and the rest was 1 to 2 aborted liaisons and some emails and phone sex.....

 

His rejection of her is not having multiple partners but the excitement he seems to equate to the lifestyle and without it he can't satisfy his libido.....

 

And then he's upset that we don't get it......

[Mme. Chaucer]

It really got under my skin too. I found myself thinking about the situation while falling asleep the other night! That's probably a sign that I need to step away from the Internets ...

 

In the OP, he said that they only have sex about 5 times per year, their sex life is "miserable" and he acknowledges that it's 100% his "fault."

 

Some of that info has morphed throughout the thread.

 

In any case, though the OP said it's his fault, there seems to be a major disconnect between what's going on between his wife and him and how he is perceiving it.

 

I wonder if he is withholding sex as "punishment" because she won't do what he wishes. OP, are you still reading this? Are you?

 

Another question: how can you claim that your marriage is so perfect in every respect when it is so brutally defined by sexual rejection?

[gisellefromhell]

I think you are all right...I realize how wrong I was

 

I will focus on making things even better in my relationship and that includes more romantic time and I won't even consider bringing anyone else into it ever again,and I won't bring up the past experiences we've had either

 

thank you everyone for helping to open my eyes to how bad a husband I was

 

before I log off of this topic for good...I did want to add one final time,that my wife and I are very happy,we hardly ever argue over anything,and the 1 or 2 times a month we have sex is very good for both of us,I'm going to put in the effort to increase that even more but I do believe I read somewhere that statistically speaking a guy who's 40 and a woman in her late 30s who have been married for over 18 years,I believe the average might be somewhere around 3 or 4 times a month...so was 1 or 2 that far off? really?

 

I apologize for my previous posts,I didn't mean to sound like such a selfish uncaring person

 

I will always try to better myself

 

take care,

Donutman

 

Please don't leave thinking that we rejected your thoughts. I can understand where you're coming from, but you should also understand what I mean. You're not a bad husband, just with the fact that you are willing to talk about your situation to make it better. Now it's just up to you to take in constructive criticism from us here on this forum.

 

Your marriage right now is a cup half filled with water. You're longing for something that you once had, and it's affecting your intimacy and the frequency of the intimacy with your wife. An open marriage at this point is like filling that cup half filled with some ice cubes to give you the illusion that it's filled all the way to the brim. It didn't make your marriage whole, but it seems like it to you. Don't use the idea of an open marriage as a patch to compensate for what you're lacking. You have to have a cup filled with water all the way up to the brim, the ice is supposed to make the water overflow.

 

I hope I'm making sense, I'm just really concerned about you. Don't keep your wants to yourself, but also be prepared to be told the truth. The truth is that you are being selfish, not because you were honest. You're selfish because at the beginning of this thread, you resigned yourself to not wanting to have a great sex life with your wife without swinging. Continue to be honest, but don't just end your goodness as a husband there. Try to work things out, try harder if she's worth it.

 

Also, it doesn't matter about the statistics of what age group has how much sex. You're here complaining that it's not enough. In the end, that's all that matters.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Please don't leave thinking that we rejected your thoughts. I can understand where you're coming from, but you should also understand what I mean. You're not a bad husband, just with the fact that you are willing to talk about your situation to make it better. Now it's just up to you to take in constructive criticism from us here on this forum.

 

Your marriage right now is a cup half filled with water. You're longing for something that you once had, and it's affecting your intimacy and the frequency of the intimacy with your wife. An open marriage at this point is like filling that cup half filled with some ice cubes to give you the illusion that it's filled all the way to the brim. It didn't make your marriage whole, but it seems like it to you. Don't use the idea of an open marriage as a patch to compensate for what you're lacking. You have to have a cup filled with water all the way up to the brim, the ice is supposed to make the water overflow.

 

I hope I'm making sense, I'm just really concerned about you. Don't keep your wants to yourself, but also be prepared to be told the truth. The truth is that you are being selfish, not because you were honest. You're selfish because at the beginning of this thread, you resigned yourself to not wanting to have a great sex life with your wife without swinging. Continue to be honest, but don't just end your goodness as a husband there. Try to work things out, try harder if she's worth it.

 

Also, it doesn't matter about the statistics of what age group has how much sex. You're here complaining that it's not enough. In the end, that's all that matters.

 

And that all is his fault..... He has a high libido, a wife he loves and is sexually attracted to and won't have sex with, because of his OBSESSION with what was barely a blip a long time ago.

 

His situation, reaction and comments about it really perturbs me....

[gisellefromhell]

And that all is his fault..... He has a high libido, a wife he loves and is sexually attracted to and won't have sex with, because of his OBSESSION with what was barely a blip a long time ago.

 

His situation, reaction and comments about it really perturbs me....

 

I wouldn't say his "fault". But yes, this whole situation is based off of his discontent.

[Penney]

I was 21 years old when I got married and my wife was 18 but we had dated exclusively for 3 years before we were married so we most definitely didn't rush into things

 

So is she the only person you have ever had sex with? If not, how many women have you slept with in your life?

 

Honestly, what it sounds like to me is that you got married too young and didn't have a chance to experiment sexually. I think many people need the opportunity to have a few different partners before they can settle down happily into a monogamous relationship. If this is the root cause of your sexual unhappiness, I am not sure how you can solve that without separating, cheating or having an open relationship.

 

The comment you made in another post about her religion being the reason for her change of heart about sexual experimentation is concerning, too. I don't see how two people can truly be soul mates if they have different spiritual or religious beliefs.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Penney

[Lovinhimlovinher]

wow...

I get the message loud and clear...I guessed that I'd get a few hate messages from people not understanding someone's desire for variety while including their partner,because I understand it is not something that everyone would want...but I never expected such a one sided flood of responses...

I was hoping to hear from a few people also who were actively in an open relationship (because there's enough books,websites and groups that I know there are people out there like that) so that I could get all types of opinions and it would help me decide how best to proceed,

however it is clear that I am "an ass" and because I dared to ask for opinions on my situation I am a horrible person.

 

I have decided to move forward with my life as is...in other words since we are both extremely happy in every other aspect of our lives it would be a tragedy and quite honestly stupid to even for a second consider divorce when the problem is so easily solved...I would never ask her to do something she felt was wrong,and I would never cheat (so hiring an escort is out of the question) so we will continue on the monogamy path

 

perhaps I wasn't clear in my original post...we do still have sex,and she is quite happy when we do,it just isn't as often as she would like but I will do my best to increase that

That way everyone's happy.

I will forget the foolish notion of involving others in our bedroom to add variety. She doesn't want it,I was silly to consider it,and it's not going to happen.

 

For the record,neither one of us needs to lose weight...I've always been attracted to my wife and have never stated otherwise. I just believe that even the two most beautiful perfect people in the world if they are together enough will crave something new. I am guessing by the responses I'm alone in feeling that way. Everyone who responded to my post must be in a happy long term monogamous relationship in which they never get bored and never cheat.

We also have tried just about everything kinky under the sun in the bedroom,from trying s&m (which isn't for either of us but we tried it) to watching porn together (which was just awkward for both of us) to toys etc...we're open minded and have tried everything under the sun that two people can do together. Like I said,I love her,she loves me and we're compatible in the bedroom I was just foolish and wanted to add variety for both her and me but she didn't feel it was right and I respect that. I just wanted to talk to others who were in a relationship like I was curious about,just to talk to them about the pros and cons.

 

Finally...

please remember,although I am "an ass" and a horrible person that she should divorce to find someone who wants a monogamous relationship,that it was not only me who wanted to pursue the swinging lifestyle.

I absolutely encouraged it and was en-thrilled by it,but she actually brought it up first. She had two girl friends while we were married and during both of those relationships our marriage had never been happier...she was happy I was happy and her girlfriends were happy.

She also was extremely happy about spending the night at another couple's house with the plans to sexually be with both of them (again,i couldn't have been happier and was very disappointed when those plans fell through because the girl in that couple changed her mind).

My wife loved having phone sex with other men and women (which I completely supported and was thrilled to encourage) and she had made great plans to be with a man she worked with (the only thing that stopped that from happening was because his wife felt uneasy about them working together and I admit,I felt a little uneasy about that too)

 

the point I'm trying to make,is she loved it as much as I did...and then all of a sudden she decides it's religiously wrong...I respect her and will go along with her decision but can't anyone understand even a little how that would be disappointing to a guy? We were both very happy for 2 years or longer,was having the life I always dreamed of and then POOF it's all changed and I had no say in it.

 

Before I get more angry replies...all I'm asking is try and see it from my perspective.

I am not going to pursue this any further...my marriage is great and doesn't need counseling,and I'll be happy with a monogamous marriage. A part of me will miss what we used to have but does that make me a horrible person?

 

Thanks again everyone for your replies

take care,

Donutman:)

 

I can understand what you are saying here. I know if my husband decided one day that the life we have been living (happily) was now over I would be disappointed as well. I would also do as he wishes but it would be disappointing. I don't feel like you are "playing the victim" at all. You are just posting your thoughts and feelings. I hope everything works out for you guys (I'm sure it will). Just stay open and honest with each other and talk about the things that bother you and you will be fine.

[Donutman]

Hey everyone,

I had every intention of just letting this thread die because I wasn't getting much in the way of real advice,just a lot of finger pointing and people calling me names

so I was not going to add anything to this thread at all and was actually strongly considering leaving the site all together

but something happened yesterday that made me decide to at least post once more and possibly more if people are interested and would like to see what happens (also,I'm still definitely open to hearing opinions that are at least kindly worded minus the name calling please)

 

I had decided as I said here a while back,to let the whole open relationship subject drop with my wife and live a happily monogamous life (wishing for more sexual variety but very happy to be married to the love of my life)

and had not even mentioned it for several months...

new years eve we had an amazing night of sex (won't go into gory details but it was very nice,we've had nights like this before also so I'm not sure what made this different but ...)

and then yesterday right after lunch my wife says 'so...would you still be interested in having an open relationship'

I was stunned...

I said,yes,but only if you were

she said...'I've been thinking about it for months since even before you brought it up the last time and I'd really like to try it again'

I was thrilled

 

I said,what changed your mind,last time you said you felt it was wrong religiously...she said she prayed about it and really thought about it and as long as we both were in agreement it didn't violate our marriage vows (you can't cheat if your spouse wants you to do it)

the only thing she still feels might be wrong is her bisexuality which she is still struggling with,would I be patient about that...well ABSOLUTELY

 

she said the main reason she was so against the open relationship for so long was because when her last relationship ended with her girlfriend she took it very hard and felt rejected (even though it had nothing to do with her and everything to do with a controlling and jealous crazy boyfriend that the other girl had)

and she was afraid to open up to someone like that again because they might leave

 

I told her I completely understood but that was the beauty of this kind of marriage,no matter WHAT happened,I would always stand by her and be there,she could explore anyone she wanted and I'd always be there to run to...she smiled and liked that alot

 

she said,in addition to thinking about it for a long time,she thinks she might have a man in mind that she'd like to be with,she flirted with him a little the past couple months but nothing major,she refused to even flirt anymore unless I was okay with it and a part of it...

 

as part of our agreement from before,she knows I'm not at all bisexual and have no interest in being naked in a room with another man,but that isn't what she meant,she meant she wants me to go with her the next time she flirts and give a clear signal that I'm okay with this and also to let him know in no uncertain terms she is married and not leaving me or doing anything behind my back

I said absolutely

 

turns out it's a guy from the grocery store we shop at...

and as she was talking about him she just got insanely horny,I could see her glowing...and the spark was back in her eyes

 

this is exactly what I try to explain to people who can't understand why anyone would want an open relationship...you can't possibly have those feelings of first lust with someone you've been with for years...you can have lust,you can have deep love,you can have trust and security BUT you can't have that 'new' lust feeling...that first kiss,first time sex feeling etc...

 

she also asked if there was any woman I had in mind to be with,she was totally okay with it...I said I couldn't think of anyone yet but I'd definitely let her know

 

she made a doctor's appt to go back on birth control (we use condoms but if she's going to be sexually active with others we want to be double sure)

and she'd like to see this man this saturday...if all goes well,she would like to make every saturday a play night...either with him or others (for herself and me) we can all be in the room together or separately (she'd like the first time with him to be just the two of them,which I'm fine with)

 

the whole conversation got us both so worked up we had passionate sex two times in a row PLUS an hour later she masturbated with a toy (something she hasn't had an interest in for a long time) she has been constantly smiling and happy and so have I

 

I'll be honest...this is the first time she's been with another man sexually since we've been married (she's been with two other girls and another man watched but didn't join in) I'm not 100 % sure how I'll feel but I think it'll be amazing for her and me...I'm excited to find out...and I'll let everyone know how it worked out

 

I suppose from the things people said to me here,I should be angry that she would bring this up,I should feel like I'm not good enough,that she is going to compare me to him,that she is being selfish (laughs) but all I feel is happy and horny...I am so proud of her...she looks great and doesn't need extra exercise but she spent an hour on our exercise bike last night,and was looking through her sexy undies and short skirts,I like what this is doing for her:love:

 

I know this life isn't for everyone...but I really hope things go well...I could DEFINITELY get used to looking forward to every saturday night hearing about how much fun my wife had and having all week for us to have fun together gearing up for the next week

 

this love works for us...I hope people can be happy for us

 

take care,

Donutman:love:

[Goldenspoon]

 

this love works for us...I hope people can be happy for us

 

take care,

Donutman:love:

 

Are the prepared for the possibility that she falls in love with one of these men someday and decides to leave you.

 

Women don't associate sex with sex only; it involves feelings and emotions. Once she falls, there is no turning back.

[xxoo]

I'm happy for you if it is what you and your wife want. I still wonder about the virtually sexless years you've had together, and how she might respond if she finds a partner who WANTS her, and her alone, all the time--regardless of the presence of other partners.

 

this is exactly what I try to explain to people who can't understand why anyone would want an open relationship...you can't possibly have those feelings of first lust with someone you've been with for years...you can have lust,you can have deep love,you can have trust and security BUT you can't have that 'new' lust feeling...that first kiss,first time sex feeling etc...

 

Maybe part of the difficulty explaining is that those "firsts" aren't something all of us value or pine for. "Firsts" were often awkward (or even disappointing) with former partners. "Firsts" were best with my H, but no where near as great as the sex we have now. Maybe not all of us are programmed to value firsts, and we have difficulty understanding those who are.

[Three'sCompany]

There seems to be a general consensus that everything is your fault. It's not. Marriage, open or otherwise, is a compromise. It's not one person saying, "I want this" and the other person has to follow suit. Maybe that's the typical marriage, wife wants it (whatever it is) a certain way and that's how it is or no one's happy. Matter of fact, doesn't matter if anyone else is happy, as long as she is. Idk, I've never been in a marriage like that, but that seems to be the norm.

Another thing that seems to me to be a common misconception from what I've read on this forum is that sex is the basis for marriage. It's all about sex. Damn the fact that every other aspect of your life with with this woman is perfect. There are sex troubles, so it's a sinking ship. One person even advised divorce...wtf? I've had some shortcomings in the bedroom b4, thankfully my wife wasn't on this forum or I'd probably be single if she followed some obviously high-quality and well-thought-out advise like that.

Just talk to her, man. If she loves you as much as you think she does, she might not agree, but she will try to understand from where you're coming. You might not be able to talk her into getting back into the lifestyle, but maybe the two of you can come up with some sort of compromise.

[Donutman]

I want to thank the people who responded with positive thoughts and ideas,it is very much appreciated,even those who disagreed with me but were kind in how they worded it,I appreciate it

 

this will be my last post to this thread,I'm starting a new thread tomorrow because I feel like I'm getting a new shot at total happiness now and I don't want to continue to talk on a thread that has so much negative stuff connected with it

 

my wife and I are so excited about this new chapter in our lives and are anxious to see what happens next,so my new thread starting tomorrow will be 'taking the new relationship one step at a time'

it will be for anyone curious about this kind of lifestyle (to see if it will work for us) or those already in it that have advice or opinions,but PLEASE if you have a bias against open relationships and marriages PLEASE keep all negativity and name calling to yourself...you can disagree with me but please be respectful

 

here's the latest

yesterday my wife and I talked a lot more,about the pros and cons,and are nervous but very excited,

she got dressed up and looked amazing (even more so than normal) and we went to the grocery store where this guy works,I wanted her to wear a short skirt to show off her best asset (she has the sexiest legs I have ever seen) but she wanted to wear nice jeans instead and save the skirt for saturday if things worked out,I could see where that would be a good idea

 

she wanted me to come with her to talk to this guy and break the ice,they already talked just casually when she'd go in to shop so she knew a conversation would be easy to start,there was just some chit chat for a while and eventually I said "doesn't she look amazing today" and of course he's drooling *laughs* and says 'yeah' I said 'you should see her in a skirt' and he just about turned a million shades of red,she then laughingly said 'don't you have some stuff to look at' which was our predetermined phrase for me to scram once the ice was broken and he was aware that I was cool with everything

 

about 15 minutes later,she got me and we went out to the car,she was giggling like a school girl...the date is set up for saturday night...they're going out to dinner and that's all that's set up for right now,just to see how things go...she said she's almost 90 percent sure it won't go too far that night,not only to take things slow to see if they are into each other but also to make sure if I have major jealousy issues that I can speak up

 

I have definitely been thinking a lot about what everyone has said about how easy it might be for her to fall in love with someone else if she's sexually with them...and that thought scares me...but at the same time,if we both immediately said 'forget the whole open relationship thing' there would still be a major risk that down the road she might find someone she's really attracted to but not be able to openly talk with me about it,and decide it's worth it to do it behind my back

I'm still not sure how things will go...I know that personally speaking,a few years back when we were exploring things with her girlfriend,at that time a lot of my male friends who were married were either having affairs or thinking about having affairs,when they asked me why I would never consider it I told them I was extremely lucky and just smiled...I never would have cheated even if she was never bisexual or interested in having an open relationship BUT I'll tell you this much,the thought of cheating would never even enter my mind because how many guys are lucky enough to be able to tell your soulmate you think someone else is attractive...I'm hoping she is feeling that luckiness too,that she is married to someone who understands that one person might not always satisfy every need and she can always at the very least talk to me openly about anything without fear

 

yes,I'm still nervous,and I'll be EXTREMELY nervous come saturday night but we're also very excited...I'll keep you all posted to see what happens

 

by the way,she has a dr appt today to go back on the pill...we're both very excited about this,as it will give her even more confidence to have a good time...(we'll still definitely use condoms also but it's extra protection)

 

thanks again everyone for the kind words of support

I'll keep you posted

take care,

Donutman

[xxoo]

BUT I'll tell you this much,the thought of cheating would never even enter my mind because how many guys are lucky enough to be able to tell your soulmate you think someone else is attractive...I'm hoping she is feeling that luckiness too,that she is married to someone who understands that one person might not always satisfy every need and she can always at the very least talk to me openly about anything without fear

 

I don't know how many, but that is the reality in my closed marriage. Closed marriage can include open sharing of thoughts/fantasies

 

Good luck to you and your wife, donut! Be safe!

[Mme. Chaucer]

Sounds good ...

 

I do hope that your wife is not mostly reacting to ten years of sexual rejection by finally giving in to your desires, if it truly does not feel like she is being true to herself by doing so.

 

Best case scenario is that she actually wants it like you do, but I do have my concerns that she has simply caved to your will.

 

Marriages indeed take compromise, but having sex outside of marriage to gain acceptance and desirability to ones spouse would not be a healthy choice for an individual, or for the marriage, I believe.