For those of looking for love.

[Yer_Blues]

If I didn't, I would have committed suicide decades ago! You can neither baffle me with brilliance, nor befuddle me with BS. I'm happy with the way my life is going nowadays, so trying to rip me down won't have the desired effect. Booeffinghoo!

You don't comprehend me very well. Not only was I not at all trying to rip you (I don't care about you at all, no negative or positive feelings here), I didn't say you had low self-esteem.

 

I simply said you have low self-esteem or you don't value people equally. You say you have self-esteem, and I will take you at face value. I don't know why somebody who has it would try to convince somebody else, but thats a separate issue

 

So, possessing your awesome self-esteem, you view other people as lower. You want to tear down other people or cause suffering so you can be happy.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Yer_Blues

[Disillusioned]

You want to tear down other people or cause suffering so you can be happy.

 

Nah, it's just a nice little perk... icing on the cake.

[Woggle]

I always tell other men this. Build up your own life and a worthy woman will come. You will never win giving up your self respect just to have any woman.

[shayan]

woah, woah guys.

 

what you don't realize in all this is there is no right and there is no wrong. Your perspective is just as valid as the one I presented in the original post. Me posting had nothing to do with me wanting to be right, I genuinely just wanted to give people some ideas to help improve their lives. Take from it what you can stop looking at what you have against it and instead focus on what you can take from it to improve your life.

 

but please continue to post.

 

Yer Blues I feel that I could address your perspective but not at this time I'm too tired. I use to be incredibly analytical and spent lot's of time thinking, I've studied neuroscience extensively because I want to become a neurologist perhaps we can discuss the chemical basis of feelings and cognition to help us shed some insight on your thoughts.

 

and Tara thank you so much for giving such good elaboration, and Disillusioned thank you so much for giving so much good critique. It's truly beautiful seeing all sides of the spectrum.

 

for everyone else please continue your questions comments concerns,

 

Good night

[shayan]

and for those of you looking for more structured ways to implement what i was saying in the original posts here are some techniques.

 

Visualization

Self Affirmations

Meditation

Going out and talking to new people

Excercise

Liesurely walking

Noticing small things around you

Changing the rules in your life about what makes you happy and what doesn't.

 

and many more to come

 

please continue any comments concerns or questions.

[TaraMaiden]

Want and meaning are connected heavily in my thinking here. Most people who don't believe in an afterlife want to lead happy lives. In order to lead a happy life, I argue that you need to have a desire to live life first. I'll give in to the idea that different people can find different emotions given various external circumstances and situations. But what about people who simply can't find happiness in any situation?

It's a bit like 'looking for love' actually. It is said that if you actively seek it, it will elude you. But if you resign yourself to simply living as best you can, and being sincerely content with what you have, it will unexpectedly come to you.

 

I use the mercury analogy. If you have a globule of Mercury and you clutch it hard in your fist, in an effort to trap it and retain it - it will squeeze out of every minuscule crack in your hand, and escape dramatically.

If however, you cradle it gently in the palm of your hand, and let it settle quietly, it will remain there, immoveable.

 

if you cannot find contentment, peace of mind and serenity Where You Are Right Now - then where else do you expect to find it?

 

It's like looking for your glasses everywhere, and eventually realising that the only reason you can see to look for your glasses, is that they're on your nose.....

 

I think you have to have a goal, a desire, or some level of meaning for happiness to be possible.

I have that desire....To shed all desires!

This is why so many people fall for religion, because it provides it.

I disagree a little.

People fall for religion in an effort to find that which they believe is missing. Most religions fill a gap, but it's merely replacing one desire with another. The desire to eventually attain a reward for all that diligent hard worship and devotion.

It's a bargain for a payoff.

 

If i simply accept the condition that life is meaningless, as you suggest, that simply leaves unhappiness.

I have never suggested life is meaningless. I asked why people seemed to want to believe that Life had to have some meaning. is not breathing, eating, walking, moving, hearing, not meaning enough? Have you any idea what an absolutely remarkable miracle a human being is?

 

This seems analogous with Nietzsche's idea of hardening oneself in response to the nihilism provided by the death of god. He sees this as life affirming, and somehow concludes that because of this, it is the appropriate response.

I confess, I have never read Nietzsche. But I'm as far removed from nihilism as I can be.

 

 

Giving in to what you cannot control or giving up on trying to change it does NOT automatically make you happy.

I do not suggest giving in, or giving up.

I suggest accepting things, which has a different bearing....

 

Surely everyone can think of an example where they tolerated a person's presence. This is much different than ENJOYING a person's presence. Why should a person tolerate life if they cannot enjoy life?

Tolerance contains an element of judgement.

Acceptance contains no element of judgement.

 

Permit me to elaborate.

 

Tolerance is looking at a situation but imposing some conditions and wanting to establish a boundary, a rule as to what will be permitted and what will be viewed as crossing the line. Tolerance contains, therefore, an element of Judgement. "I will go along with this, providing/as long as/ until such a time.....but if you cross that line, you will incur my wrath, opposition and defiance, and I will fight you for my right to establish my needs/wants over your needs/wants."

 

Acceptance views a situation exactly as it is.

 

"You have your ideas and I accept those, I have my ideas and those are also acceptable. I may wholeheartedly disagree with what you do, but it is your choice, and I cannot expect you to change simply because I am not in agreement. I will do whatever necessary to safeguard my own interests as I see fit and proper, with as little harm/inconvenience to you, because you have made your decision. I will not stand in your way, of your choices, which will bring about unknown consequences. But I want you to be happy, and I hope what you have chosen does that."

 

Suffering is generally regarded as something to be avoided. If there is no prospects for happiness, given a unique combination of DESIRES and CIRCUMSTANCES, why is acceptance and dedication the better option than say, suicide?

Suffering is caused by Excessive and inappropriate (or unskilful) desire. We suffer because we want things to be a certain way, all the time, to ensure our continued happiness, then along comes <*unknown factor*> and spoils it. or we want to change something that makes us sad, into something that makes us happy, but we have no control over that 'something' and so we perpetuate our own unhappiness, because we seem to be unable to control things.

You cannot avoid 'suffering'.

'Suffering' is our constant bedfellow.

It's how we view suffering, and to what extent we permit it to invade us, that counts. (Suffering is also termed as unsatisfactoriness, or 'the one wobbly wheel on an otherwise stable and perfectly built cart'.)

 

I'll give you that. Again though, I disagree with the idea that you can forcibly change your perception of things. It's largely determined by things you can't change about yourself.

Give me an example of what you "Can't change about yourself".

 

 

 

This is my goal. I associate it with will. It's very respectable. I'm engaging you on an academic level in hopes that a person who has a better understanding or implementation of such thoughts can challenge some opposition.

First of all, when you find yourself in a stressful situation, breathe. Deeply. I mean it, really.

Then, swap places.

Look at the other protagonist in the situation that is causing you stress.

What the hell has gone wrong with their day?

Why so tetchy/rude/off-hand/ill-mannered?

Could be a number of reasons.

This sounds like a facile and puerile exercise, but I've actually tried it, and to my utter astonishment, it's actually worked on several occasions.

 

Three, I can think of, off the top of my head, when I've actually asked the person, if they're ok? They seem very upset....

The outpouring of personal, private and on one occasion extremely distressing experiences served to completely diffuse the situation, and actually effect a connection, rather than a hostile separation of two people caught up in a minor mess.

It's practice.

Every day, every moment, is an opportunity to practice.

Every day and every moment is an opportunity to remain mindful, and to implement the Right Response.

It's a bummer, I'll tell you.

I probably manage it for 20% of the day.

But it's an improvement on what I used to be like!

Slowly slowly....

Something Mother Teresa once said, had a profound effect on me many years ago.

 

"It is said I have personally helped over 600,000 people in my life.

but I haven't. I have helped just one person.

Just one.

One at a time."

 

And that's what you do.

Take one thing at a time.

 

 

Let me present a new angle: Western life is really boring. Like, extremely boring. In the lack of a goal, or in a lack of purpose, I find nothing but boredom/resignation. I've never replaced my loss of faith.

Tell me, where do you think you could go, to make life any less boring?

What kind of alleviation are you looking for, to relieve this boredom?

Define this boredom.

Is this a boredom felt by everyone you know, or just you?

If Life for you is boring, what would you rather do, to decrease or eliminate this boredom?

Is life boring - or is it just that you are bored?

[Disillusioned]

It's a bit like 'looking for love' actually. It is said that if you actively seek it, it will elude you. But if you resign yourself to simply living as best you can, and being sincerely content with what you have, it will unexpectedly come to you.

 

I use the mercury analogy. If you have a globule of Mercury and you clutch it hard in your fist, in an effort to trap it and retain it - it will squeeze out of every minuscule crack in your hand, and escape dramatically.

If however, you cradle it gently in the palm of your hand, and let it settle quietly, it will remain there, immoveable.

 

Good analogy... mercury is a deadly poison which drives its victims insane before it finally shuts their bodies down.

 

People fall for religion in an effort to find that which they believe is missing. Most religions fill a gap, but it's merely replacing one desire with another. The desire to eventually attain a reward for all that diligent hard worship and devotion.

It's a bargain for a payoff.

 

There's just one catch: they have to be dead to collect.

 

Suffering is caused by Excessive and inappropriate (or unskilful) desire.

 

Wrong. Suffering is caused by others making bad decisions which hurt us.

 

Give me an example of what you "Can't change about yourself".

 

My past experiences. Thought you were really going to stump me with that one, didn't you?

 

And yet, I know of some people who are bull headed enough to try to discredit experience as a teacher.

 

Look at the other protagonist in the situation that is causing you stress.

What the hell has gone wrong with their day?

 

Nothing. They're having a GREAT day.

 

Tell me, where do you think you could go, to make life any less boring?

 

There's no place that far, although I can name people who spent their entire lives traveling around the world to find that ultimate thrill.

 

But don't try to judge me until you've walked a mile in my shoes.

[Disillusioned]

I always tell other men this. Build up your own life and a worthy woman will come. You will never win giving up your self respect just to have any woman.

 

There's no such thing as a worthy woman, even if you become the best guy in the world however you define it. The only "worthy woman" is another man.

 

I try to tell people it's a forest, but all they see are trees...

[TaraMaiden]

Good analogy... mercury is a deadly poison which drives its victims insane before it finally shuts their bodies down.

Ok, use margarine instead.....

 

There's just one catch: they have to be dead to collect.

Yeah, that's why I'm not interested either....

 

 

 

Wrong. Suffering is caused by others making bad decisions which hurt us

.

Wrong.

if you choose to blame everybody else for making decisions which you find hurt you, then it's you letting them do it. Up to you whether you really hurt or not. What they do, is their business. Heck, their primary intention might never have been to hurt you at all, but you choose to take offence. More fool you....

 

My past experiences. Thought you were really going to stump me with that one, didn't you?....

Your past experiences are not yourself. Your past experiences are things that have happened to you. Yourself is different. The past, you cannot change. Yourself is up to you.

 

'Stump' you?

Who was even talking to you?

 

Nothing. They're having a GREAT day.

Sure about that, are you?

Or are you just judging others by your own jaded and cynical standards?

No wonder you come across the way you do...

Still, enjoy the moment!

 

There's no place that far, although I can name people who spent their entire lives traveling around the world to find that ultimate thrill.

Exactly. better to stay at home and get some where you are. You make my point exactly.

 

But don't try to judge me until you've walked a mile in my shoes.

Judge you?

 

 

None of my comments were directed at you, because frankly, I didn't really believe you cared or gave a damn.

But if I'm wrong about that, welcome to the discussion.

if not, why are you even answering?

Edited December 27, 2010 by TaraMaiden

[Yer_Blues]

****DISCLAIMER: NOTHING IN THIS POST IS JUDGING Disillusioned****

 

Tara, is what you're suggesting roughly equivalent to applying the ideas or practice of "mindfulness" to every thought and action?

 

I'm still thinking about what you wrote, I'll post a proper reply soon

Edited December 27, 2010 by Yer_Blues

[TaraMaiden]

Roughly briefly speaking to every thought, word and action - yes.

 

Simplify your life.

 

Jettison that which is unnecessary to your progress.

You'll find your backpack is that much lighter.....

[Yer_Blues]

Roughly briefly speaking to every thought, word and action - yes.

 

Simplify your life.

 

Jettison that which is unnecessary to your progress.

You'll find your backpack is that much lighter.....

Is this to say that it is unhelpful to analyze or think about the past? Is finding the source of problems not helpful? I'm not sure if the path I've been following is the best, but I seem better than I have been in the past. My main focus is finding a way around social anxiety so I can get into deeper/more fulfilling interpersonal relationships (platonic and romantic) and get beyond that superficial smalltalk that does not come naturally to me.

 

Studies in clinical studies show that eastern philosophy, particularly mindfulness, can be a more effective alternative to permanent elimination/reduction of anxiety than any drug therapy without the myriad of negative side effects and with positive interactions with things like depression and stress reduction.

 

So, would it be better to stop analyzing and to not think about it at all? My only worry is that it seems like "inaction"/simply concentrating on the present may have the negative effect of halting progress.

[TaraMaiden]

Is this to say that it is unhelpful to analyze or think about the past? Is finding the source of problems not helpful? I'm not sure if the path I've been following is the best, but I seem better than I have been in the past.

The past is like any tool. It's only as good as the person using it. It therefore depends how skilfully you use the experiences of the past to uphold your present, and how you use the present to delineate your future.

 

My main focus is finding a way around social anxiety so I can get into deeper/more fulfilling interpersonal relationships (platonic and romantic) and get beyond that superficial smalltalk that does not come naturally to me.

Social anxiety is just a fear in evening dress.

Fear of something intangible and invisible is often more daunting than something concrete and visible. You cannot see your enemy.

The reason for this, is that the Fear you have is lodged behind your eyes.

It distorts your view.

Your fear is mind-wrought.

 

If superficial small talk is difficult for you, examine why it is.

What is it you imagine that hinders your ability to make light conversation?

 

.....clinical studies show that eastern philosophy, particularly mindfulness, can be a more effective alternative to permanent elimination/reduction of anxiety than any drug therapy without the myriad of negative side effects and with positive interactions with things like depression and stress reduction.

This is so.

I belong to a forum where we have many members who either have had, or are still experiencing, mental issues. They all, without exception, state emphatically that such practice has been of enormous comfort, benefit and relief to them and the condition they have.

 

So, would it be better to stop analyzing and to not think about it at all? My only worry is that it seems like "inaction"/simply concentrating on the present may have the negative effect of halting progress.

Analysis is all well and good, if it is constructive and helps you progress.

Sometimes though, seeking answers just provokes more questions, and occasionally, we need to stop and ask - "Is this curiosity really helping me? What would be achieved, right now, if I had the answer to this question? indeed, do I believe there is an answer?

Is the question fruitful? That is, will the answer bear fruit - or merely divert you from your focus?

 

"Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits."

(Lucy Maud Montgomery, 'Anne of the Island'.)

 

Sometimes, just sitting quietly, and breathing, is all the activity we need to bring the mind home.

[Yer_Blues]

If I wanted to get my hands dirty with these concepts or this philosophy, do you have any recommended reading/starting points/methods I could learn?

[TaraMaiden]

Books by Thich Nhat Hahn:

present moment, wonderful moment.

peace is every step.

Calming the Fearful Mind

The Heart of the Buddha's teaching.

 

Books by Lama Surya Das

Awakening the Buddha within

Awakening to the Sacred

Awakening the Buddhist heart

 

Books by Pema Chodron

The Places that Scare You

When Things Fall Apart

Start Where you Are.

 

A Book by Tulku Thondrup

The Healing Power of Mind.

 

THE Book by Sogyal Rinpoche

The Tibetan Book of Living and Dying.

 

You won't need handsoap.....

[Yer_Blues]

 

Social anxiety is just a fear in evening dress.

Fear of something intangible and invisible is often more daunting than something concrete and visible. You cannot see your enemy.

The reason for this, is that the Fear you have is lodged behind your eyes.

It distorts your view.

Your fear is mind-wrought.

 

If superficial small talk is difficult for you, examine why it is.

What is it you imagine that hinders your ability to make light conversation?

It seems like my fear pretty much has to be mind-wrought as you mention, but its not how it feels when it kicks in. It's a very physiological response that comes into play with or without my conscious thinking about the interaction that's about to take place or what is going to happen. I don't necessarily get ancy and nervous because I am actively thinking about people judging me etc, in the moment it's just like a habituated automatic response. And it's entirely illogical, unadaptive, and frustrating. When I've tried to explain it to people, it makes me realize how ridiculous of an issue it is.

 

My ability to make light conversation deteriorated and fell apart when I turned about 14/15. Always felt like a biological change, but I refuse to be a person who puts everything on biology regardless of how large of a part it may play in something. I did that too long as an excuse to not lose weight when I was obese. There are things beyond my locus of control and I have decided to try to accept them and move forward with what is within my locus of control. I need to make sure that I extinguish any learned helplessness on the way.

 

But in the end, I still don't really know why it is so difficult. Sure, I have problems from my developing period, but if I have logically moved beyond them, why won't my automatic behaviors/thoughts adjust? I feel like my brain has a virus and I simply need to reprogram it by brute force and repetition. It's an awkward feeling to be so out of control because of automatic physiological forces you can't prevent. I don't know anymore if finding out WHY I can't have normal interactions RIGHT NOW is necessary to do so anymore. Like you said, even if I did somehow acquire this information and I knew exactly why my brain was programmed the way it is, would that really help me program it any differently than a position of ignorance?

 

EDIT: Thanks for the suggestions, looks like I have a lot of new words/concepts to learn

Edited December 27, 2010 by Yer_Blues

[shayan]

As I promised, Yer Blues you have to realize that thought processes which are rooted in neurological pathways take a while to replace. In order to genuinely change the way you percieve something you must work on it for a considerable about of time and provide reinforcement. Psychological studies have shown that just using replacement thoughts usually take a couple of weeks to genuinely feel accepted. Literally the way you think all has to do with a proper orientation and connections of millions of neurons and even more glial cells. What I'm trying to tell you is changing those connections, or as I like to call it rewiring your brain takes time it's not an instant thing. This is not to say we don't have epitome moments and make realizations which help us change, it is to say that even after we have that sudden awakening we must continue to harbor those new thinking thoughts to make that pathway solid. So if you want to change the way you think the answer often does not lie so much in re-examining the past as it does in changing our perspective on the past so that we stop mulling over it and accept it as it was without judgement.

 

Wayne Dyer, a motivational speaker gives an excellent example, he says if you are a boat and the past is the wake, or the trail the boat leaves in the water. Can the wake stir the boat?

 

no it's just an illusion, so why often are we stuck looking at it and living in it.

 

this shift that you feel your desire to come toward more peaceful philosophy is good, trust it and move forward toward peace.

[TaraMaiden]

It seems like my fear pretty much has to be mind-wrought as you mention, but its not how it feels when it kicks in.

No, I do understand this, and if I sound as if I made light of it, you have my apologies. I certainly do not take what must seem very real and frightening to you, lightly.

 

It's a very physiological response that comes into play with or without my conscious thinking about the interaction that's about to take place or what is going to happen. I don't necessarily get ancy and nervous because I am actively thinking about people judging me etc, in the moment it's just like a habituated automatic response. And it's entirely illogical, unadaptive, and frustrating. When I've tried to explain it to people, it makes me realize how ridiculous of an issue it is.

 

John has a fear of snakes. it borders on the phobic. The very thought of seeing a snake fills John with dread and makes him break out in a cold sweat.

John lives in an apartment in Downtown Manhattan. The likelihood of his coming across a snake, by pure chance, is so remote as to be non-existent. yet on entering his sitting room, with nothing but the full moon to give him light, John sees a snake, coiled on the floor.

John is rooted to the spot. He is petrified, terrified and absolutely rigid with fear.

Lucy, his wife, comes in behind him.

She sees John, and sees his distress, and sees the cause of his distress.

She lays a hand on his arm, and says "John, I'm going to turn the light on now. Everything will be fine...."

The moment the light goes on, John sees that the cause of his fear, was nothing other than the dog's rope-leash he had tdropped there that morning.

His fear had been generated by nothing other than an illusion, and his imagination running away with him.

The rope was still there. In the same position. But with the light off, it had very definitely seemed to be a snake.....

 

The point is this:

When something makes us very afraid, it's difficult to see beyond it, and to realise that in almost every way, it's a fear of our own making. We exaggerate and amplify the fear, and turn it into something more powerful than we are, and the more we observe it, the greater a threat it becomes.

But by viewing it in its proper light - as an illusory phenomenon, we can see that its parts are really quite empty, and that it is not what we feared it was, at all.

Pick it to pieces, and see that when it is shredded into components, there is nothing whole, or real, to fear.

 

 

My ability to make light conversation deteriorated and fell apart when I turned about 14/15. Always felt like a biological change, but I refuse to be a person who puts everything on biology regardless of how large of a part it may play in something. I did that too long as an excuse to not lose weight when I was obese. There are things beyond my locus of control and I have decided to try to accept them and move forward with what is within my locus of control. I need to make sure that I extinguish any learned helplessness on the way.

The helplessness is merely a Truth you are reinforcing for yourself.

The more substance you give it (its beginnings, its origins, its founding reasons) the more solidity and worthiness you give it. You solidify it and make it relevant.

This is a way in which remembering when things began, can be a hindrance.....

 

But in the end, I still don't really know why it is so difficult. Sure, I have problems from my developing period, but if I have logically moved beyond them, why won't my automatic behaviors/thoughts adjust?

Because there is a form of security in reasons. If you dispose of the reasons, your behaviour becomes even more illogical. How can you have a fear - but have absolutely no rational, viable, logical root cause for it? It gives you something to fall back on. Something to justify your fears with. While your fears exist, they must have foundation. Therefore, much as you might believe you have moved on...perhaps, you actually haven't....?

 

 

I feel like my brain has a virus and I simply need to reprogram it by brute force and repetition.

Viruses are medically incurable.

They have to work out of your system themselves.

all you can do is to boost your immune system, and just watch the process as your virus weakens, and becomes ineffective.

 

Brute force is sometimes teamed with Ignorance.

Slamming a door won't always close it. That's why doors have handles. To be turned gently, so the door lodges into position quietly and effectively.

Be gentle with yourself. View your illusory fear, not with brute force, but with gentle humour.

 

 

 

1:

It's an awkward feeling to be so out of control because of automatic physiological forces you can't prevent.

 

2:

I don't know anymore if finding out WHY I can't have normal interactions RIGHT NOW is necessary to do so anymore. Like you said, even if I did somehow acquire this information and I knew exactly why my brain was programmed the way it is, would that really help me program it any differently than a position of ignorance?

 

1: The reason you can't prevent them, is probably because you haven't known how to.... You need the right tools.

Up to now you have believed these factors are beyond your control, but maybe you've been attaching too much significance to them...

 

It's like being struck by an arrow.

You don't sit there, looking at it embedded in your leg, and admire the fine craftsmanship of the straight shaft, the dexterous working of the feathers, and how precisely they've been cut, and the detailed engraving and sharpening of the steel arrowhead.... you pull the damn thing out, because it hurts!

 

 

2:The twin arrows we are struck by, increase our suffering, also.

There is the pain of the first arrow, as above (the actual event itself, your inability to articulate 'small talk') and the fear and apprehension and embarrassment of the moment, the trepidation and foreboding....

These are what we call the twin arrows of suffering, and we generally speaking may not be able to do something about the first, but we sure as hell can do an enormous amount about avoiding being struck by the second....

 

 

Am I making any sense?

Edited December 27, 2010 by TaraMaiden

[Yer_Blues]

No, I do understand this, and if I sound as if I made light of it, you have my apologies. I certainly do not take what must seem very real and frightening to you, lightly.

 

 

 

John has a fear of snakes. it borders on the phobic. The very thought of seeing a snake fills John with dread and makes him break out in a cold sweat.

John lives in an apartment in Downtown Manhattan. The likelihood of his coming across a snake, by pure chance, is so remote as to be non-existent. yet on entering his sitting room, with nothing but the full moon to give him light, John sees a snake, coiled on the floor.

John is rooted to the spot. He is petrified, terrified and absolutely rigid with fear.

Lucy, his wife, comes in behind him.

She sees John, and sees his distress, and sees the cause of his distress.

She lays a hand on his arm, and says "John, I'm going to turn the light on now. Everything will be fine...."

The moment the light goes on, John sees that the cause of his fear, was nothing other than the dog's rope-leash he had tdropped there that morning.

His fear had been generated by nothing other than an illusion, and his imagination running away with him.

The rope was still there. In the same position. But with the light off, it had very definitely seemed to be a snake.....

 

The point is this:

When something makes us very afraid, it's difficult to see beyond it, and to realise that in almost every way, it's a fear of our own making. We exaggerate and amplify the fear, and turn it into something more powerful than we are, and the more we observe it, the greater a threat it becomes.

But by viewing it in its proper light - as an illusory phenomenon, we can see that its parts are really quite empty, and that it is not what we feared it was, at all.

Pick it to pieces, and see that when it is shredded into components, there is nothing whole, or real, to fear.

 

 

 

The helplessness is merely a Truth you are reinforcing for yourself.

The more substance you give it (its beginnings, its origins, its founding reasons) the more solidity and worthiness you give it. You solidify it and make it relevant.

This is a way in which remembering when things began, can be a hindrance.....

 

 

Because there is a form of security in reasons. If you dispose of the reasons, your behaviour becomes even more illogical. How can you have a fear - but have absolutely no rational, viable, logical root cause for it? It gives you something to fall back on. Something to justify your fears with. While your fears exist, they must have foundation. Therefore, much as you might believe you have moved on...perhaps, you actually haven't....?

 

 

 

Viruses are medically incurable.

They have to work out of your system themselves.

all you can do is to boost your immune system, and just watch the process as your virus weakens, and becomes ineffective.

 

Brute force is sometimes teamed with Ignorance.

Slamming a door won't always close it. That's why doors have handles. To be turned gently, so the door lodges into position quietly and effectively.

Be gentle with yourself. View your illusory fear, not with brute force, but with gentle humour.

 

 

 

1:

 

2:

 

1: The reason you can't prevent them, is probably because you haven't known how to.... You need the right tools.

Up to now you have believed these factors are beyond your control, but maybe you've been attaching too much significance to them...

 

It's like being struck by an arrow.

You don't sit there, looking at it embedded in your leg, and admire the fine craftsmanship of the straight shaft, the dexterous working of the feathers, and how precisely they've been cut, and the detailed engraving and sharpening of the steel arrowhead.... you pull the damn thing out, because it hurts!

 

 

2:The twin arrows we are struck by, increase our suffering, also.

There is the pain of the first arrow, as above (the actual event itself, your inability to articulate 'small talk') and the fear and apprehension and embarrassment of the moment, the trepidation and foreboding....

These are what we call the twin arrows of suffering, and we generally speaking may not be able to do something about the first, but we sure as hell can do an enormous amount about avoiding being struck by the second....

 

 

Am I making any sense?

You have managed to engage my thinking in a way which does not require me to correct/elaborate, but actually provides me some valuable insight. The idea of breaking things into components is something that has helped me immensely in the past, and it only makes sense that I use it in the future. Constructive, and sure to satisfy the analytical mind.

 

Eliminating the apprehension associated with events (interaction) is my goal. I am completely willing to move beyond what has already happened

 

Managed to snag an ebook called the Miracle of Mindfulness by Thich Nhat Hanh which should suffice until I can acquire some of the titles you mention.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Yer_Blues

[shayan]

continue questions comments concerns

[TaraMaiden]

At the moment, there's nothing I can add...

 

I've already said too much.

I sound like an authority, and I'm not, not one bit.

 

All I can do is support and respond, as best I can, and Yer_Blues wants more input from me, I'd be happy to provide any feedback I can.

The above is everything I've learnt and digested over time.

And it's a heck of a mouthful to chew on, all at once.

Smaller morsels should be taken, and digestion should be slow....

[Movingthrough]

Well i think this thread may have gone the wrong way but back to the looking for love part.

 

Like one of the other posters said, i feel the same way about "letting" it happen, or will it just happen? I know that every time i have met a girl it has been without plan, warning and with no real reason behind it, it just happened.

 

But i consider myself a doer and the concept of just sitting back and waiting for something to happen is very hard for me. The funny thing is, and its why im posting here, is every effort i have tried since my break up has not worked, and i have REALLY been trying. Not in a weird way, not being pushy, but i have literally been talking to girls, its going great, then the next day, bam nothing.

 

Point is, im starting to believe more and more what the OP is saying where you have to let things happen, i literally feel like the world is telling me to chill out, because nothing has worked so far. The flip side of the coin is does it always just "happen" and how much work should you put in..

 

I guess we could argue this all day back and forth, but most people will agree that when you finally get comfortable with yourself that things will happen.

 

Now i know we have a lot of knowledgable posters on this thread, i have a question, what makes us so apt to be hurt and lonely with ourselves after a breakup? Im actual one of those people that has always been independent, never gave a **** what anyone thinks of me, and does my own thing all the time, so honestly it worries me to think that this has made me so "scared" to be by myself.

 

I can remember when i was with someone, i would sit at home when they were gone and read, surf the net, have a drink, all the stuff i do now and be so happy, i loved my free time. Now i have all the time in the world to do it and i hate it because someone isnt in the backround....thats crazy to me.

 

Thoughts?

[Ross PK]

I made a topic on here asking pretty much the same question, Movingthrough.

 

A lot of people said they had to put the work in for it. I'm not sure if they ment work as in putting yourself out there amongst plenty of women and then just letting it happen, or having to still work for it once you're out there.

[january2010]

what makes us so apt to be hurt and lonely with ourselves after a breakup?

 

This morning, I read something posted on another site that I think works for me as an explanation. As part of a couple, I identified myself through and in response to my ex.

 

Even 'independent' people can be defined through their connections with others. You may act independently but where you fit in the world, you are still a sister/brother, daughter/son, employee, ex, etc.

 

When you lose a connection, you feel the pain from that lost connection. And even if you participate in the same activities, you don't do so in the same context because your worldview has changed.

Edited December 28, 2010 by january2010

[Yer_Blues]

But i consider myself a doer and the concept of just sitting back and waiting for something to happen is very hard for me.

I made this mistake in a post I made yesterday in this thread. After having read up a bit more, I don't think it is at all advocating any form of sitting back and waiting.

 

The OP mentions worrying about it being the core problem of "searching" for love. When you search for something, you are striving for an end goal. You have a desire. But this goal can only be accomplished in the future. If you are searching too hard for love, you are simply trying too hard to live in a future you desire.

 

In order for us to actually enjoy an activity, we have to be concentrating on it fully and be fully aware of what we are doing. When we are worried about something or have expectations for something that we are trying to achieve, we are not simply aware of our present existence and are too distracted to concentrate enough on it. Think about how much better food is when you really savor or pay attention to it, versus stress eating or eating mindlessly while watching television. I just learned an idea from my reading that I'll roughly try to apply here:

 

I read about how there are two ways to wash dishes. You can wash dishes to have clean dishes, or you can wash dishes to wash dishes.

 

The first roughly applies to living in the future or being controlled by desire, while the second involves living in the present and being in complete control/awareness.

 

Perhaps you have to enjoy companionship to enjoy companionship, not enjoy companionship to get into a relationship. It is possible that the desperation/DESIRE for a love/a relationship actively interferes with being able to simply enjoy somebodies company. If you become comfortable with yourself, the idea is that this desperation for external things (partners etc.) will disappear, leaving you comfortable simply being yourself as you are at the present moment.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Yer_Blues