moimeme Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 My opinion is that it is pointless to have opinions about factual information. But anybody who wishes to is welcome to. I would appreciate the liberty to express my own opinion, which is that I think it is pointless to have opinions about factual information. I would appreciate the liberty to not be accused of 'browbeating' people because I express an opinion. Or maybe you're browbeating me? Here's a crazy thought. How's about agreeing to disagree without having to hurl epithets or get insulting? Link to post Share on other sites
ladyangel Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme My opinion is that it is pointless to have opinions about factual information. But anybody who wishes to is welcome to. I would appreciate the liberty to express my own opinion, which is that I think it is pointless to have opinions about factual information. I would appreciate the liberty to not be accused of 'browbeating' people because I express an opinion. Or maybe you're browbeating me? Here's a crazy thought. How's about agreeing to disagree without having to hurl epithets or get insulting? Excuse me?? As I've stated time and time again, YES everybody is entitled to their opinion. Period. But you don't seem to want to let it go until everybody agrees with YOU. I'm not trying to convince anyone that my way is the only way. I have expressed my thoughts, my opinions and my feelings. I'm glad you have the "opinion that it is pointless to have opinions about factual information." I guess you have now decided what the FACTS are as opposed to opinions. This is all getting very confusing. But what I find most confusing is your accusation that I've hurled epithets or insulted you. I have done no such thing. I think I HAVE agreed to disagree but you seem to want to always get the last word. Please let it go. To me, it's ridiculous that I posted two words on another thread about MY marriage and it has turned into this. Ridiculous. And I thought this forum was all about opinions. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BrainRightHeartWrong Posted March 17, 2004 Author Share Posted March 17, 2004 To me, it's ridiculous that I posted two words on another thread about MY marriage and it has turned into this WRONG WRONG WRONG! how many times do you have to be told the thread was not about you! stop this catfight! unconditional love is a fantasy and i suppose there is nothing wrong with anyone having a little fantasy if it helps their relationship Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Stop pretending that this is an argument over facts. It's not, because the word unconditional, when coupled with love, becomes a phrase that has different meaning than the two words apart. To some, unconditional love may mean that the love is incapable of ending, despite all sorts of hideous trauma. In which case, sure, it's a myth. To others, unconditional love is a phrase that describes a love so strong that it overcomes a variety of conditions, OR that it facilitates a relationship so companionate and healthy that it prevents such hideous trauma from occuring. In which case, some people have it and understand it, some people do not. Link to post Share on other sites
RedneckRomeo Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Unconditional Love - that term is redundant, just like an 'ATM Machine'. The initials stand for Automatic Teller Machine, so the extra 'Machine' is not necessary as it is already part of the definition. The same goes for 'Unconditional Love' -- Love is unconditional - and if it is not - then it is not love. Have you not heard of people who get divorced, but yet cry at their ex's funeral? Why do they cry? Because they love them. Not because they once loved them, but because they still do. I'm not wanting to be a preacher or anything but if you want a definition of love in its truest sense, check out 1 Corinthians 13 - especially the part 'Love never fails.' Some people only say they love each other because there is a mutual semi-symbiotic relationship - one gives what the other wants, and vice-versa. Unfortunately, that is not love. A lot of times we 'love' someone because of what we get out of this relationship, how it makes us feel. Thats not love. When relationships end - it is not because their love dies, but because it was never there to begin with. Other times, its not love that dies, but affections or lust, yet if any love existed between them, it will endure forever. It is hard for many to [unconditionally] love, true, but it is in many relationships. If we put conditions on our 'love' though - then it is not love. [unconditional] love doesn't alwasy occur right away in a relationship. Sometimes it never occurs. But it does exist. Personally, I do feel it. I give it. I recieve it. I dont give love in order to recieve it in return, but because it cannot be held back. Sure, it does feel great to give love and have that love returned to you - as in a relationship truly should work, but if you truly love the person in the relationship, you will continue to give that love to them until the end of your existence. I have had 'crushes' on many girls. I've had some where I felt very strongly for them, attracted to what they could give me, but it was not [unconditional] love. There is only one though, who I truly unconditionally love. Were she never to return this love that I freely give her, I would still love her, and I would continue to give it to her. Were she to turn against me and/or treat me badly (purposely or not) I would still give her all the love I have to give. Were she in need of anything - I would do my best to give it, even if I recieved nothing in return. I will forever do what it takes to protect her and keep her safe. And if she were dying and there was a way for me to switch places with her, no matter how absurd it sounds - I would, TRULY. I love her that much. Now that is what I believe to be true [unconditional] Love. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BrainRightHeartWrong Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 maybe a pet dog loves their owner unconditionally but do owners love their dogs unconditionally? quite a few of my exes do but they certainly didn't love me unconditionally and they certainly never will love anyone else unconditionally either If we put conditions on our 'love' though - then it is not love in a perfect world matey but certainly not in a relationship i have never met a woman who didn't have conditions, off course it is more subtle than that but they are there and everyone has them Link to post Share on other sites
RedneckRomeo Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 maybe a pet dog loves their owner unconditionally but do owners love their dogs unconditionally? Some do. Like I said, not everyone gives true [unconditional] love. We are all capable of it though. i have never met a woman who didn't have conditions, off course it is more subtle than that but they are there and everyone has them Are those conditions for love or to be in a relationship? Two different things. Love helps sustain those relationships, but if love is not there - they fail eventually. But yet you do not have to have a boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife relationship to love. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 There is only one axiom that never changes, and that is that everything changes. Love changes, in terms of how it manifests itself in the hearts of the lovers. Do you equate unconditional with stubborn? Link to post Share on other sites
RedneckRomeo Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 ALMOST everything changes. There are few things that remain the same. very few. Love is usually stubborn when it is true (unconditional) but just because your feelings are stubborn do not mean that they are love. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by RedneckRomeo Love is usually stubborn when it is true (unconditional) but just because your feelings are stubborn do not mean that they are love. Oh how we disagree. I consider unconditional love to be open to change, if even conducive to it. Stubbornness strikes me as a delusion. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BrainRightHeartWrong Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 i was really talking about conditions for a relationship and the subsequent love that exists in such a relationship in a loving relationship obviously the two are codependent in the long term i'm not talking about say the love we have for out mother but as i have said before even that has conditions and yes love does change as do the conditions for it to exist i'll put it this way... we do not fall in love with most people we meet therefore there must be conditions that exist that allow us to fall in love with the select few... a concoction of looks, personality, sexual compatibility, religious beliefs, etc. etc. and god knows whatever else that makes the spark that ignites true love! Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 The trouble with defining true love is that we're only capable of understanding that which we have acheived. We have no way of knowing if it gets any better. Link to post Share on other sites
Author BrainRightHeartWrong Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 this is true dyermaker but as nobody can ultimately define true love or even love we got to have a stab as to what we think it is to our best ability and possibly naively fantasise that the current love experience is the ultimate but afterall we are human and shouldn't always be logic machines ( which can be bad for us! ) although i think quite a few of us have a good idea of what 'true love' feels like we can usually see in others but maybe not ourselves a 'true love' that could definately be better for either or both of the people involved and maybe others have seen that with me also true love is not the same as unconditional love in my books love is blindness Link to post Share on other sites
newcommer Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Hmmm, I ws reading this post, and was very interested in things people wrote, but the intensity was really baffling. I don't think I ever in my life experienced unconditional love from anyone including my parents. When people say they love me unconditionally I think what they are saying is, "You screwup, I dislike it, but your a part of my life and no matter what you will have a place in my life". Isen't that not unconditional love, but more like "Loyalty and devotion"? I don't know, but I like the comment of the first post saying In terms of unconditional love, for this to be true of adults, one partner would have to love the other despite abuse, infidelity, murder, torture, or anything else. The whole point of 'unconditional', after all, is the sense that there is nothing whatsoever which can end that love. IMHO, anyone who loves an adult unconditionally is totally without healthy boundaries for that reason. God can afford to love unconditionally; it won't end him up in a hospital or dead. Not so we humans. People will test you and tax your energy and your strength trying when you have this term, "unconditional love" in your relationship. It is truly in my opinion a hard goal to reach when you do have healthy boundaries and morals. that is why it is so hard for people to devote there life to religion. There is so much of yourself to give up in the name of "Walking the path of God" who is suppose to love us unconditionally. I don't know, I am big romantic but I don't trust that unconditional word. It is a suspect. Link to post Share on other sites
ladyangel Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Originally posted by newcommer When people say they love me unconditionally I think what they are saying is, "You screwup, I dislike it, but your a part of my life and no matter what you will have a place in my life." This is a very close definition of what I consider unconditional love. Link to post Share on other sites
LikkleMissConfused Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 LadyAngel, every one seems to be just talking about this this topic but you seem to be getting very upset. I agree with BRHW. This is not about you or directed to you. Everyone is just talking generally about how they feel so please stop thinking everyone is attacking you and stop attacking everyone else. Thats how it comes across. Miome posts some good replies and I don't feel as though she wants everyone to agree with her she just speaks dimplomatically so please stop taking things so personnally. LA you are right as well everyone speaks from their experiences and beliefs and I admire you for beleiving in Unconditional love but i also am aware that most people don't beleive in such a thing like myself. I didn't say you are immature or beleive in fantasy I simply said what i beleive and think so please let me have my say and it wasn't directed at you so please GET OVER YOURSELF! Yes that was directed at you.......... Link to post Share on other sites
ladyangel Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Who sounds upset? Link to post Share on other sites
RedneckRomeo Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 It seems I misunderstood slightly what you were asking. I mean to say that love is stubborn in the sense that it is persistent - but it is not resistant to change. Love accepts change, because it is unconditional. My concept of love is pure, and even when in a relationship (which may have conditions to exist), if love develops between two people, then it will be unconditional and last forever. The relationship may not, but the love that exists will persist. Link to post Share on other sites
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