Can we be friends years later?

[jj33]

Hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas.

 

xMM (if he can even be called that years later) has been very keen to see for the past few weeks. I have no idea why and with our work connection its not possible to ask so I just assume its about work. And of course because he misses my friendship. We were above all the best of friends until the aftermath got sticky.

 

Suddenly our past seems distant. Like any other ex boyfriend.

 

Im tired of being on guard with him, tired of being defensive when I am in contact with him, tired of all the nonsense that goes along with defending against ??? its been over for so long there is nothing to defend against.

 

I do care about his wellbeing hope he is happy etc etc. I miss what we had alot at times, but I no longer imagine there is any way of us ever having a future together. If he ever left i would be more shocked than anyone and I am not sure I could ever trust him the way I once did.

 

Ironically I now feel the same way about him that his wife does... except I still think he's hot and apparently she doesnt (from 3rd parties not from him)

 

I dont ever see him leaving. I think he likes to toy with the idea especially around the holidays when he is with his wife for longer than usual. (its always summer vacations and christmas that makes him nostalgic for what he lost with me) Predictable after all these years as clockwork. Too much time at home and he is desparate to see me.

 

Not sure why and it hurts my brain to think about it anymore but I think its some sort of fueling the memories of what could have been. That and when we are both relaxed with one another we do have a great time. But that is rare these days we are extremely defensive most of the time.

 

So the question is should I consider that we might actually become friends again? I have to see him for professional reasons if nothing else. Is it possible now that several years have passed that we could really be friends? I dont know.

 

Thinking out loud here I know I will just have to play it by ear. Approach it as just another professional thing and if we have a pleasant time and there is something of a friendship that develops fine if not no surprise.

 

It is slightly unnerving. I dont want to flatter myself that he still wants something romantic (we live in a big city and there are plenty of younger prettier girls he could go after if all he wants is an A) but its complicated.

 

Of course I am very very special and its nice to be able to be friends with someone you loved so much but ?? just not sure about this.

 

Finally dating again and getting myself back on track dont want to have any more drama with him. Maybe its just state of mind. If I go there expecting only a pleasant professional meeting there is no room for drama.

 

Thanks for listening

[Carrot2000]

 

Finally dating again and getting myself back on track dont want to have any more drama with him. Maybe its just state of mind. If I go there expecting only a pleasant professional meeting there is no room for drama.

 

This alone is reason enough to forgo any kind of friendship with this man. Sometimes it's just better to live with the fond memories and move on.

[Owl]

JJ, it's THEORETICALLY possible.

 

It's also theoretically possible that we'll all get wiped out by an asteroid tomorrow.

 

I'm not gonna go out today and spend all my money on a wild party based on that possibility.

 

You know the risks. I'm surprised you're even asking the question, my friend.

 

You've seen the same stories over and over here that I have. Just reading your post, it's clear you still have a "soft spot" for him...you still "think he's hot"...given those two things and an intimate past...of course considering a 'friendship' with him after all of this is risky in the extreme. Like I said...I'm amazed you even consider it.

 

You MIGHT be able to keep it "just a friendship". But given how hard he pursued you for years afterwards trying to find a way to rekindle the affair...do you truly believe that HE can keep it that simple even if you were to manage to do so?

[Hazyhead]

Hi JJ, good to see you back

 

I know how much this guy means to you, even if he does have a huge dose of azzclown but what initially popped into my head is, does he have the power to hurt you again if you decide to be friends? Do you have the will to knock him back if he does try it on?

 

Finally, if it led to that, would you want to be the OW again?

[jthorne]

(its always summer vacations and christmas that makes him nostalgic for what he lost with me)

I don't mean to be snarky, but it looks like the same is true for you.

 

You are going to do what you are going to do, so there's not much I can say. Your post is all over the place. You want a friendship, then claim you find him hot, then you say you can keep it platonic, then you say you're nostalgic over what you had.

 

You say you know he'll never leave her. If you really just want friendship, why would this be an issue? Why not be friends with her as well?

 

I trust you see where I'm going with this and what my warning would be.

[calliope]

In my situation, and it sounds like yours too, friendship is where everything started and grew from. I also work with MM, which is where the friendship started.

 

I'm not really sure you can go back there and stay there when there's still simmering emotions under the surface. It'd be nice to think that, because I desperately miss my friend, but I'm not sure it's realistic. Good luck...

[desertIslandCactus]

I don't mean to be snarky, but it looks like the same is true for you.

 

You are going to do what you are going to do, so there's not much I can say. Your post is all over the place. You want a friendship, then claim you find him hot, then you say you can keep it platonic, then you say you're nostalgic over what you had.

 

You say you know he'll never leave her. If you really just want friendship, why would this be an issue? Why not be friends with her as well?

 

I trust you see where I'm going with this and what my warning would be.

 

I agree with the above.

 

Also it seems he couldn't even handle having a professional business relationship with you - without trying to burn you.

 

Continue to Know who you are. One less so-called 'friend' won't kill you.

[Heather1]

IDK either?

 

Men probably visualize about 5 woman a day naked, so for them to hear "no" from you is just another woman saying no.

 

Women (well, me) visualize only a select few & those are the ones you can't be friends w/ when your M. If he's not on your select few list anymore, then it's a go. If he is, you still have some time to go before you can be friends.

 

I know, it sucks doesn't it

[jj33]

Wow J Thorne that was unecessarily snarky - hes the one contacting me not vice versa. I see him from time to time because of our work not because when I have free time hes the one I call.

 

I know its not likely that we will ever have a real friendship again. He no longer has the power to hurt me because my feelings are not the same as they once were.

 

I guess it will be business as usual. Going out being polite doing whatever business needs to be done and getting out as quickly as possible.

 

If we ever had a friendship it would be a work friendship not a regular outside of work friendship. In my industry its common for people to have lunch and dinner every few months with people they do business with or want to do business with.

 

His W would never be interested in socializing with me even if we never had the A. I am not her type of woman, shes a socialite and we have little in common other than her H, and she is far too important to befriend the little people of this world like me and well known as a total biotch. I just found out one of my friends knows her from way back when and said she has always been and will always be a biotch so I am not overly interested in being her friend either. When I have met her she treated me like I worked for her... Pleasant but superior and just one step from could you get me more ice for my drink...but I do get why she feels the way she does about him. All those years of azzclown behavior are bound to wear on you even if you arent unpleasant so in her case its no wonder she grew indifferent quickly.

Edited December 27, 2010 by jj33

[newpriorities]

IME I have been able to maintain a friendship with a former xMM. But the key, for me, was that I had absolutely zero romantic feelings for him at that point. I was the one who ended it--because I had met someone else (this all happened years ago). We had no communication for about one year, xMM was very upset and hurt, but eventually we started having lunches together, drinks etc. However, he knew from the beginning, there would be no chance or even discussion about a R between the two of us. Instead, we actually developed a new kind of friendship based on mutual interests.

It's worked for us, but again, only because I had zero feelings. Now my last R that just ended--no way. I can't imagine ever being friends w him bc I can't imagine NOT being attracted to him, and that is just trouble!

[jj33]

That makes a lot of sense. If I had someone new in my life it wouldnt b an issue I might only have posted to say guess what so much time has passed we are able to spend time together as friends.

 

Well I do have to see him but I wont put pressure on myself to try to handle it as anything other than a business meeting. He knows better than even hint at rekindling the A at this point so I dont have to worry about that.

[whichwayisup]

I wouldn't try a friendship with him. Eventually it will get personal and not be casual work buddies. Eventually the conversation of the past will come up, and also, your feelings for him might pop back up again, you might get emotionally attached without evening knowing it.

[jthorne]

Wow J Thorne that was unecessarily snarky - hes the one contacting me not vice versa. I see him from time to time because of our work not because when I have free time hes the one I call.

 

I know its not likely that we will ever have a real friendship again. He no longer has the power to hurt me because my feelings are not the same as they once were.

 

I guess it will be business as usual. Going out being polite doing whatever business needs to be done and getting out as quickly as possible.

 

If we ever had a friendship it would be a work friendship not a regular outside of work friendship. In my industry its common for people to have lunch and dinner every few months with people they do business with or want to do business with.

 

His W would never be interested in socializing with me even if we never had the A. I am not her type of woman, shes a socialite and we have little in common other than her H, and she is far too important to befriend the little people of this world like me and well known as a total biotch. I just found out one of my friends knows her from way back when and said she has always been and will always be a biotch so I am not overly interested in being her friend either. When I have met her she treated me like I worked for her... Pleasant but superior and just one step from could you get me more ice for my drink...but I do get why she feels the way she does about him. All those years of azzclown behavior are bound to wear on you even if you arent unpleasant so in her case its no wonder she grew indifferent quickly.

You missed my point. If you are to have a real friendship, it should be an OPEN friendship, not a hidden one.

 

You two obviously aren't interested in an open friendship, so you might want to consider what you really are/might later be interested in.

 

Also, I seem to remember him trying to smear you in your industry when troubles arose concerning your A. I don't really think you want to risk that again, do you?

[whichwayisup]

The other thing to think about is, the friendship is still a selfish one. One that his wife wouldn't approve of. It'll be hidden from her and he'll be betraying her, making a fool of her, still being friends with the OW, even though you two are not in the A anymore.

 

JJ, don't bother. There truly is no point of friendship or getting to know him again with no feelings on your end. It won't work.

[jj33]

Actaully WWIU his wife does know about the A doesnt care and I havent spoken to her in several years but really she doesnt care and I know this.

 

She does her own thing dont know if she has someone at the moment as I havent really cared to ask around but she has her own discreet pursuits.

 

She only cares that he not make a fool of her by leaving or doing something to embarrass her where they wouldnt have plausible deniability.

 

The state of their marriage has long ceased to be an open secret but it works for them.

[silverplanets]

What you've described is one option ... ie giving him some of your time and answering that question of "will he still be attracted to you after all this time ..." .... or perhaps answering the question "is it possible to be friends with someone you've had an A with and who is still married)" ... or perhaps "will someone who did the dirty on you once do it again" etc, etc, etc, etc

 

You can give him/the drama some of your time and maybe find the answer to those questions.

 

One, possible other option might be to do something entirely different with your time - learn something new, change your career, give spare time to charity, study religion, travel ... whatever ... do anything that makes you feel so alive that you follow it with a passion ...

 

There's loads of things you can do with your time ... and finding out how someone who has treated you badly before will treat you now is only one of them ...

 

I guess it depends upon which you believe is the BEST investment of your time, for YOU????

 

be safe

Chris

[jj33]

Unfortunately I am not in a financial position to give up or change my career. And he is a colleague so giving him an hour of my time with no expectations other than that it will further a positive foundation for our ongoing professional relationship is the best use of that hour.

 

He doesnt want any drama I dont want any drama. Actually writing it down, the idea of an actual friendsship is not possible until I am with someone new. He does still find me attractive but that is neither here nor there because he is also still married.

[jwi71]

Whoa there darling...put down the eggnog and slowly step away.

 

You cannot possibly be considering this.

 

This has nothing but bad idea written all over it - it'd be safer to tie raw meat on your sleeves and run through the lion exhibit.

 

No way. No how. Don't you DARE open that door - and that's exactly what you would be doing.

 

You can't POSSIBLY want that drama and angst BACK in your life. You worked TOO hard, too long to get where you are to let this happen AGAIN - and you know what I'm talking about.

 

Now, go have some eggnog.

 

JW

[silverplanets]

Unfortunately I am not in a financial position to give up or change my career. And he is a colleague so giving him an hour of my time with no expectations other than that it will further a positive foundation for our ongoing professional relationship is the best use of that hour.

 

He doesnt want any drama I dont want any drama. Actually writing it down, the idea of an actual friendsship is not possible until I am with someone new. He does still find me attractive but that is neither here nor there because he is also still married.

 

OK then, let's use the hour to further your career as you say .... SO .... who is the BEST person/or what is the best activity to spend that hour on ... is there course YOU could attend, is there an industry expert YOU could arrange to interview, is there an industry journal YOU could study .. is there an "out of the blue" report or situation appraisal YOU could write ... is there a way of making/saving money YOU could identify ...

 

(not harassing or challenging you .. just extending the logic ... if career/business development is the reason then good for you ... but you only have so many hours to spend them on surely identify what will give you max career/business benefit and that's what you spend the hour on???).

 

be safe

Chris

[jj33]

Thanks for the concern JD. I have put aside the notion that we could be friends. Eggnog was thrown out a few hours ago.

 

I have seen him several times over the past few months as we do for work. And once or twice have seen him on his own. Gritted my teeth and got it over with as quickly as possible (id say I laid back and thought of England but it wasnt that sort of meeting ). First time was grueling for me second time was much easier so I am in the groove. It annoys me that he wants to see me for no particular reason as he knows it is not comfortable for me, but it is how business is done and so I have to treat him like anyone else.

 

I have no attachment anymore. It would be nice to have been able to think we can be friends because it is tedious to be on guard and I am beyond exhausted with life in general but it is what it is.

 

You are all right at this point we cant be friends. Maybe when I am happily in another relationship we can. Maybe not. At least I am starting to date again which makes it easier.

 

I will never understand why after everything we cant just wish each other well from afar but it is what it is.

 

Thanks for your concern

[jj33]

Chris all points well taken but my life is infinitely less stressful when we are on good terms. Ive tried playing it all possible ways and quiet and polite is the best way to be. It makes life a lot less hassled a lot less drama. For whatever reason he wont accept that we shouldnt be in contact. By seeing him very occasionally it keeps things quiet in between. Yes it throws me a bit when I anticipate seeing him now because I get angry with him for putting me through the hell of the aftermath, but I see him, its over and its done. When I cut him off its much much worse.

 

Its just not worth it to do it any other way. You know I have tried but it simply didnt work. If we didnt work together I would not see him at all. He is married and I dont need that in my life. But it isnt destructive anymore the way that it was, its one of those things. There are lots of people i have to see for work that I would rather not see simply because I dont enjoy their company. If I am in the proper frame of mind, it will be a lovely charming pleasant hour. And it will be done. A small price to pay for peace.

[silverplanets]

Chris all points well taken but my life is infinitely less stressful when we are on good terms. Ive tried playing it all possible ways and quiet and polite is the best way to be. It makes life a lot less hassled a lot less drama. For whatever reason he wont accept that we shouldnt be in contact. By seeing him very occasionally it keeps things quiet in between. Yes it throws me a bit when I anticipate seeing him now because I get angry with him for putting me through the hell of the aftermath, but I see him, its over and its done. When I cut him off its much much worse.

 

Its just not worth it to do it any other way. You know I have tried but it simply didnt work. If we didnt work together I would not see him at all. He is married and I dont need that in my life. But it isnt destructive anymore the way that it was, its one of those things. There are lots of people i have to see for work that I would rather not see simply because I dont enjoy their company. If I am in the proper frame of mind, it will be a lovely charming pleasant hour. And it will be done. A small price to pay for peace.

 

This reply makes me sad For one you have to see lots of people whose company you don't enjoy ...

 

Mostly, though, because it sounds like he's still bullying you and gets meetings because if not things are made awkard for you ....

 

I know (trust me I know!) that sometimes one has no realistic options other than to give in to the wishes of another

 

The main thing, I suppose, is to make the right call now for your needs .. if the need is just to pacify then ok so be it. But don't flower it, or misprepresent it .... you are accomodating to pacify/keep the peace .. no other reason.

 

Accept it and maybe spend no more brain cycles on it ... instead ask your brain to focus in the background on a long term solution ... you'll be suprised at what it comes up with if that's where you ask it to go ... :)

 

Chris

:)

[jj33]

Thats life. Sometimes you would rather be off sailing but you are slogging away in the office. You do what you have to do. My life could be a lot worse so I have no cause to complain.

 

He is not bullying me per se. He would say its all in my head and if I dont want to see him I dont have to. But after a difficult period unecessarily difficult IMHO, we now have calm and peace and far less interaction than we have ever had. So this is a small gesture to keep that peace. It makes my life easier in the long run. I was just reading something about his W in a magazine and thinking WTF. Why does he need to see me looks to me like their life is so full and busy. But it doesnt matter. It is what it is. Next week will come and go and hopefully we will have a peaceful meeting and it will be done.

[jj33]

J Thorne you are right there were troubles which is why I like to keep the peace. The troubles were years after the A ended. Excuse me if I was defensive. I am really angry that he insists on seeing me and I wasted a lot of energy today thinking about it, whether i have to go, if I go whether I should give him a piece of my mind (yet again). Its exhausting.

 

Its not that we dont want an open friendship but there are loads of people I see for work purposes yet I would never care to see them with their spouses. The term friend is used very loosely.

 

Its the old lets do lunch thing lets meet for a cocktail its how business is done in my industry. It doesnt mean you are really friends. Some people yes they are friends but most are simply acquaintances. I took someone for a drink the other day having postponed for months and at the end with a smile told him that I felt his colleagues had f'd with me (and I used the whole f word several times I thought he was going to cry... ) and that it better not happen again. So drinks etc etc yes, see them with their spouses no thanks. Even of the ones that are friends there are only a very few with whom I am really friends with (know their spouses etc). The rest are the people you see because you have mutual customers and some you see more than others or have more lunches or dinners with but I dont see them on the weekends or meet their spouses unless they come to a work function.

 

Because we was my closest confidante in the industry, it would have been nice to think we could have one again but no its not possible. You are right. I cant let down my guard after some of the things that have happened and I still cant imagine why he wants to spend one extra minute with me after I took the steps I did to try to get him to leave me alone. If I were him, I would be the last person I would want to see. Ever. I would never forgive me for breaching certain privacies. Its a mess. I guess I just have to go, be quick get out and be done with it.

[SidLyon]

Hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas.

 

xMM (if he can even be called that years later) has been very keen to see for the past few weeks. I have no idea why and with our work connection its not possible to ask so I just assume its about work. And of course because he misses my friendship. We were above all the best of friends until the aftermath got sticky.

 

Suddenly our past seems distant. Like any other ex boyfriend.

 

Im tired of being on guard with him, tired of being defensive when I am in contact with him, tired of all the nonsense that goes along with defending against ??? its been over for so long there is nothing to defend against.

 

I do care about his wellbeing hope he is happy etc etc. I miss what we had alot at times, but I no longer imagine there is any way of us ever having a future together. If he ever left i would be more shocked than anyone and I am not sure I could ever trust him the way I once did.

 

Ironically I now feel the same way about him that his wife does... except I still think he's hot and apparently she doesnt (from 3rd parties not from him)

 

I dont ever see him leaving. I think he likes to toy with the idea especially around the holidays when he is with his wife for longer than usual. (its always summer vacations and christmas that makes him nostalgic for what he lost with me) Predictable after all these years as clockwork. Too much time at home and he is desparate to see me.

 

Not sure why and it hurts my brain to think about it anymore but I think its some sort of fueling the memories of what could have been. That and when we are both relaxed with one another we do have a great time. But that is rare these days we are extremely defensive most of the time.

 

So the question is should I consider that we might actually become friends again? I have to see him for professional reasons if nothing else. Is it possible now that several years have passed that we could really be friends? I dont know.

 

Thinking out loud here I know I will just have to play it by ear. Approach it as just another professional thing and if we have a pleasant time and there is something of a friendship that develops fine if not no surprise.

 

It is slightly unnerving. I dont want to flatter myself that he still wants something romantic (we live in a big city and there are plenty of younger prettier girls he could go after if all he wants is an A) but its complicated.

 

Of course I am very very special and its nice to be able to be friends with someone you loved so much but ?? just not sure about this.

 

Finally dating again and getting myself back on track dont want to have any more drama with him. Maybe its just state of mind. If I go there expecting only a pleasant professional meeting there is no room for drama.

 

Thanks for listening

 

Yes I believe it's possible to remain friends but only with conditions.

 

I have done this myself with 2 former long term partners (of 5 and 8 years respectively). The conditions are that the friendship has to remain transparent especially to the new or existing partners of the former AP and one has to be a "friend of the marriage". This is not quite the same as saying one has to be good friends with the person's primary romantic partner, but that one has to be respectful of the relationship and do nothing to interfere with it and that includes no secret discussions about the romantic partner or the relationship. It includes beating a quick retreat if the romantic partner is insecure or unhappy with the friendship.

 

I managed this successfully with one of my exes; even going to their wedding. With the other ex, it worked for a while but stopped working when he got a new partner who was unhappy with our friendship. At that stage we recognised that the friendship was no longer possible.

 

I imagine it would be much more difficult to remain friends if the relationship had been an affair, and the couple were still married as it would mean the BW would have to be very gracious or would remain in ignorance of the A which more or less negates the idea that the friendship is open and transparent to the wife. To me that looks more like the continuation of the A albeit on an altered basis.