Who Has Overcome Insecurity

[johan]

I've been with my girlfriend for almost 2 years. We're both over 30. We have tons in common, but we also have serious trust issues.

 

Her insecurity and lack of trust has gotten to be a constant issue between us. I can't win with her, and I can't convince her that she's over-reacting to just about everything. I'm honest with her. I'm not looking for anyone else. But this is exhausting me and it's killing us.

 

I admit I lose my patience when we discuss this stuff. Her accusations and questions can be insulting, and they are definitely not rational. And they are persistent and SO repetitive. She doesn't like it, but I need her to lighten up on me. She's not trying at all. She doesn't really see any problems with herself to speak of. It's all me.

 

Tell me who has overcome something like this. How? I'd prefer not to hear "just move on". That's my last resort.

[FreeMe]

The first thing is that she needs to admit that she has the problem. (I'm taking your word that you aren't doing anything to cause her to be more insecure.) Once she admits that she has a problem with insecurity, trust, and jealousy, she should get counseling. She also has to be resolved to deal with her problems and change. If she is willing to do that then it won't be overnight, and she'll need your cooperation and encouragement, but given time, she can overcome her issues. It has to start with her though.

 

You didn't say what exactly your girlfriend says and accuses you of, but I suspect she's like me. I was very jealous and insecure. I still have problems but I've been working on them and making some progress. The thing is, I KNEW I was the problem. Even though I accused and ranted, I knew underneath I was wrong. I was just looking for reassurance and it's never enough. You can reassure her endlessly and it won't be enough because inside she doesn't believe she's good enough and no one outside herself is going to convince her she is.

[MarKus]

Yeah i know the feeling,

 

my gf of 3 years (Were on a break at the moment requested by her of 2.5 months so far)

 

She always seemed so insecure sometimes and i couldnt win either, i suppose it was because she loved me so much, but we were really happy we'd do everything together

 

If i ever said hello to a girl i knew, she would always give me the 3rd degree.

If we wasnt holding hands with her on a particular day she would say

"Why arnt you holding my hand, is it because you want girls to think your single!"

 

Paranoid if my friends invited me out because she thought id find someone else while out, NOT TRUE. (I hardly even saw my friends while being with her, but i didnt mind cos she was all i wanted).

 

If i ever did my hair she would say "who are you trying to impress"

(and she would spend hours infront of a mirror!)

 

If i ever said anything about her clothes or hair she would say "i suppose you like the way other girls look and not the way i do!" NOT TRUE

 

When i would go college she would always think im 'eyeing up all the girls, and chat them all up' when i WOULDNT dream of it.

 

would check to see who i was texting,

one time i even said "your mums hair looks nice"

she replied "I expect you fancy her"

 

omg her own f@*%in mother!!!

 

 

I kept reasuring her and telling her that she was the one i wanted, and i wanted to be with her and no one else and i loved her. i cant understand why some people get like this, it irritated me sometimes we would argue and bicker but i tryed to stay calm about it,

We used to spend every day with eachother, and i told her ages we should spend a few days by ourselfs cos it would help, otherwise we would drive eachother away. But she didnt want to do it, thinking i didnt want to be with her.

 

Now this TURNAROUND after nearly 3 years, were having a 'break, and she thinks we need time'

her - after all this,

i really love and miss her.

[tac719]

Interesting. These two posts sound exactly like my wife's and I relationship. She is exactly the same way. I have discussed this issue up and down on these forums and realised that the change will primarily only come from a lot of counseling. It revolves completely around their self worth. The first thing they need to do is try and identify the source of there low self-esteem and work on it from there. Typically it evolved from a poor relationship with a father figure or a horrible previous relationship in which they were made to feel worthless.

 

It's sad because it's not their fault, but it becomes their responsibility to get themselves out of this self defeating mode. Help them to go to counseling if you can, it will be a slow and drawn out process and results are not guarenteed. Sometimes the only thing that will work is time. Heals all wounds, suppossedly.

 

Also possibly look into anti-depressants. It helps keep you from feeling constantly anxious all the time. This did seem to help my wife while she was on them.

[Dug]

My girlfriend and I are also over 30, and I am experiencing some of the insecurities that the women do in these previous posts. The fact that my GF has seen alot of casual sex action with strangers, isn't as much an issue with insecurity as it is that she keeps commenting on the experiences like she almost misses them. Sometimes she compares me to one of them when we're intimate, or sees a car like one she had sex in with a one night stand, or wants to go to a club where she used to get picked-up. When I challenge these comments, she simply says that she will not walk on egg shells around me feelings. She says the past is the past and I need to get over it......and I would, if she'd leave everything in the past. I must say though that she never flirts alot openly and remarks about hot celebrities etc aren't an issue either. We always go home together, but her track record does indicate that she is very capable of cheating. When she seems to dwell on her past, it simply makes me nervous.

I guess my point is.....make sure you aren't doing insensitive things to provoke your woman's insecurities. Believe me....being on the insecure side of the fence is no more pleasant than listening to someone question your every motive. Baggage after you leave High School is a fact of life....just be sensitive to how you affect your partner. You can't hurt someone who doesn't care.

[midori]

I think there are many people, men and women, who put death grips on their relationships because of their insecurity. I think such people are insecure about the relationship because they're insecure about themselves.

 

It sounds to me like your girlfriend doesn't have much faith in herself, overall. Does she see herself as a worthwhile person? Is she engaged in work that she finds meaningful, or does her work allow her to do other things that she finds meanginful and significant?

 

Unless they really have reason to worry, most women who feel that they are significant in their own right don't worry about other women on the periphery of their boyfriends' lives. Women who are confident in their own worthiness know that they can hold their own against most other women, and they understand that their partner is with them BECAUSE of who they are.

 

I'm not talking about prestige or wealth. I'm talking about knowing that you are a worthwhile person who brings good things to other people; and knowing that other people value you for the good things that you bring.

 

A woman who is confident in herself knows that, even without a boyfriend, she can have a meaningful, fulfilling life that is rich in many ways. And she will be able to have faith that sooner or later she will find someone to love, who will love her in return, if her current boyfriend proved to be unsuitable some reason. She doesn't think that without her boyfriend she'd be doomed to loneliness and insignificance.

 

If your girlfriend were self-assured and believed that she herself, and her own life were important and worthwhile, I'll bet she wouldn't be so terrified of losing you. The problem, I'd say, lies not with you or your relationship but within your girlfriend. Like other posters, I'm assuming you're being honest when you say that you've given her no reason to doubt you. No matter how "good" you are, you'll never be able to reassure her. You can't reassure someone who was never sure of herself in the first place.

 

It is possible that your gf's insecurity is intensified by an implicit understanding that you don't value what she does. What do you think of her work -- do you respect it? Do you think it's worthwhile? Do you think it's interesting and important? If not, are there other things that she's involved with that you admire and appreciate? I don't mean appreciating how she cooks meals for you, or appreciating how pretty her hair is. Do you think she's a cool person who does some cool stuff?

 

If your girlfriend feels self-confident and in control of where her life is going, I think her jealousy will shrink tremendously. But as long as she feels that being with you is the key to her happiness and significance, rather than just one component of her overall happiness, she will be very fearful of losing you.

[johan]

Well, thanks for the replies. Nice to know I'm not alone in this. Every one of you said something that made me think. And something you didn't say was just as interesting. None of you said it was fixed. None of you claimed to defeat it.

 

I'll try to remember she's kind of sick in some ways. I can't take it personally, because she's just not thinking right. Not all the time, but just when we're having problems. I'll have to let her get away with some hypocrisy, and try not to be defensive. Maybe I can help her by just sticking it out. She doesn't believe I don't love her, not because of anything I do. She just doesn't believe she can be loved. Maybe someday she'll just get tired of worrying about things so much.

 

She isn't working, and she's not very proud of herself. She's an immigrant and it's not easy for her.

 

I'd still like to hear from someone who got over it. But, that may be too much to expect. If they got over it, they'll probably be happy and won't be browsing the forums.

[tac719]

I don't think anybody truly gets over it. They just learn how to deal with it better and understand it. When they begin to understand themselves that is when they turn the corner.

 

Good luck! You sound like a great guy, which will help her immensely.

[johan]

Dammit, this is hard! It's such a crappy cycle. There is nothing I can do to make her feel good about me.

 

We had a great evening together. I dressed up for her (even wore a tie), and we went to a really nice restaurant we've never been to before. And I complimented her and cared for her and tried to keep all the negative away. But I could tell from her response and her comments that there was a storm brewing.

 

And then as the night came to a close, out came the comments about the same old stuff she keeps bringing up. It's the same thing every time. I understand that I can be selfish and insensitive, but I also know that that's the extent of my badness. I'm not out to hurt her or betray her. I don't flirt with anyone ever. But there is absolutely nothing I can do or say to earn her trust. Nothing I can do to make her believe I love her. But she always blames me for it all. She doesn't take any responsibility for the fact that she can't believe me no matter what. She puts it all on me to fix everything on the outside, even though the problem is inside her. I'm being set up to fail.

 

And I get really frustrated. And I'm scared. I don't know what to expect from her. She thinks I'll cheat, but I know what I want and it isn't that. And if one of us is going to cheat, it will be her for sure. In the first place, she's miserable with me. She'll run into someone with whom she doesn't feel that way. Maybe it will be false, but that may be all it takes. I know she's miserable in general, and it really doesn't have that much to do with me. But she thinks it's me. Someone will come around (if he hasn't already) who will not have the weight of this relationship to carry who will be nice and sweet and make her believe she can escape all this. And second, she's not herself. She's so self-absorbed and insecure. Who will she be when she gets past all this? This is all we've had for over a year (out of 2). She's been with me like this for a long time, and when she finally gets a grip, will the real her want to be with me?

 

In every other way she is perfect for me. She's pretty, she's smart, she's strong, and she shares my interests and habits. When we're not together we even wake up at the same time automatically. I could literally write a list of 100 things we have in common.

 

But she has to have control of things that she can't control. She won't listen to reason. My efforts to reason with her always fail. Our conversations go the same way every time. She's been thinking something really bad for a while. And then she makes a comment, dripping with accusation. She REFUSES to get over it. And I tell her the honest truth that she's wrong, that I love her and only her. And she won't believe it. And I tell her that she'll have to go. And she gets so hurt. And I explain that I don't need to go through this all the time and she needs to take responsibility for some of it. And she gets upset at the thought that the responsibility is not completely mine, as if there were anything at all wrong with her. And it escalates into something that isn't pretty. And tonight I told her "fine, I'll just go ahead and be the kind of guy you think I am. I'll go ahead and do the things you accuse me of. When you leave is when I start." It was mean and manipulative. So she left saying "OK, then you'll never see me again", which was also mean and manipulative. Of course she still took the DVD she wanted to borrow.

 

You know it's just pathetic. Neither of us is very strong. If I were, I wouldn't slip right back into trench warfare with her. I've been better lately, but tonight was a real disappointment. If she were stronger, she'd try to find a way past all this. And she has no courage at all. When I tell her I think she's insecure her reaction is almost hysterical denial. She has no willingness to turn the microscope back around on herself. The suggestions are all ignored as if I didn't even say them. I think she's just too afraid to find out that not only is she not in control of me, she's not even in control of herself. She HAS to have the spotlight on me, because the only alternative is to shine it on herself.

 

I resent it all, you know. I resent the implication that I have no morals or that I don't understand what I'm doing. I resent the way it's so insulting. I resent that she doesn't even care, can't even comprehend how I feel. I resent the fact that she interprets my resentment as defensiveness and evidence that she's right. I resent the pain and difficulty that comes with all this. I resent the idea that she represents everything I want in a woman, but that I can't have it because she's too gutless to come to terms with her life. I resent the fact that she brings out the worst in me every time this happens, and that she won't listen to any good thing I say. I resent the fact that it's all on my shoulders to make this turn out right, and I'm failing to be the right man for the job.

 

Do I really think she's going to die alone, because she's such a mess? No way. Someone is going to step in and do the job I can't do, to make her look at herself and make some corrections. He'll say, I don't need this, and if you want to be with me, you'd better figure this out, because you're a mess. He won't try to reason it all out with her. He won't argue or try to convince her. He won't try to overpower her with passion or fury. He won't fight a losing battle. He won't have any of the buttons I have. She'll figure out there are none to push, and she'll rise to the occasion. She'll do it because she'll be left with nothing except the idea that he really is what she wants and needs. She can lose him just like that, and she has no choice but to trust him and share his faith in himself. She'll go ahead and pull herself out of it, and he'll get everything from her that I think is so great. I'm not like that guy. I don't know how to respond like that, and I get upset. This is the most depressing thought I can have about all this. It's not like I get to walk away with the gratification that I escaped a demon. She's confused and insecure, but she's no demon. She would shape up in a snap, if she wanted to. My inability to handle this with her shows that I'm the one who needs work.

[moimeme]

She would shape up in a snap, if she wanted to.

 

Possibly not. I skimmed the other replies and saw a lot of analysis, but only one suggestion to get counselling.

 

Obsessive questioning can mean the individual is suffering from a case of obsessive thinking. This is actually a psychological condition requiring treatment, often with meds. We have a couple of LSers who've been trying to defeat the same monster. In particular, read posts written by Thinkalot.

 

You have nothing to lose by suggesting - strongly - that she see a physician about this and that she mention the issue. You could also try counselling, but you'd have to be sure that the counsellor would recognize signs of obsessive thinking and suggest she get diagnosed.

 

It is possible that this is just her personality, but it never hurts to investigate whether something more serious is an issue when people display this sort of behaviour.

[Arabess]

I wonder if it would be valid to ask someone like that why THEY are staying in the relationship if they feel it isn't stable.

 

Maybe it would open up the discussion from a different angle and allow the person with the insecurity to question if they really DO feel their partner is screwing around or if they are caught up in some habitual 'victim drama'.

 

I admire you guys. I would find it EXHAUSTING to be with someone like that. I would have no patience.

[johan]

Arabess, I've brought that up. She won't answer that question, because it goes to the heart of her irrationality. She can't answer it without admitting that this is all really foolish. She dodges it, like she dodges any other question or remark that would cause any introspection. Introspection is not her strong suit. The topic in these discussions is me, and the things I do wrong. It's not us and the things we do to contribute to our problems.

 

But I know the answer. She doesn't want to lose me, she doesn't really think I'm that bad, or she'd be gone. She just wants to go through this. Like I said above, in a way she's right. We haven't reached a solution because I haven't drawn the line and held it. I'm getting better at it, but I get really annoyed when I let it slip. She doesn't want any lines, she just HAS to run all over everything to her own satisfaction. She's like a child the way she pushes and tests me. And she gets really hurt and her anger shows when I hold my ground.

 

Here is why I'm with her. This isn't her. The real her shows sometimes and I LOVE it. She is just scared and foolish. Maybe she's sick. But the goal is to get the real her out, not to throw her away with an ultimatum. The first step, don't laugh, is to get her to admit she has a problem. She has to take responsibility for what it's doing to us. And she has to do something about it. For me that wouldn't be very much. For her, I think it would be earth shattering. She's the greatest perfectionist I've ever known and this would require admitting weakness and flaws and a lack of control that are simply unacceptable to her.

 

Maybe I have to take her to the edge of the break-up cliff, and show her that I'm ready to jump. But I will be hoping that she pulls us back. And it won't mean anything if I don't mean it (or at least I have to convince her that I do), and I'm not brave enough to just go take a leap right now. I don't know if I trust her to save us. Some people just let go, because it's easier to jump than it is to turn around and climb. It's up to me to lead us to a solution either way. It must be too much to expect for things to just be easy.

[Arabess]

I wouldn't want to be anyone's emotional whipping post regardless of how much I loved them. I would feel like I was not only enabling them to manipulate my feelings, but perhaps I would slowly turn into a looney case myself.

 

Compassion isn't my high point though. I have a total lack of tolerance toward people who don't have their sh*t together. If they have a psychological quirk...then they need to get help or go make their own selves miserable.

 

To me, whining is for tired four year olds.....not adults who need constant attention and assurance.

 

I think it's wonderful for you to be committed to the relationship, but GAWD, how do you move forward in a relationship that's stuck in some wierd fear factor gear???

 

I'm not being judgemental or smart assed....I was really just asking.

[johan]

Do you think I'm being a whipping post? Do you think I'm enabling her to manipulate my feelings? Tell me honestly, what am I sacrificing here to try and find the truth with her. Do I have to throw her away because it's all just too damn much for me to deal with? I know in my heart there is a way to solve this problem, and if there is a solution, then it's my job to find it. If I don't give it my best effort, then I'll only ever be able to call it a failure. When I'm 70 and with someone else, I'll still be thinking about her and wondering what the magic words were. I just have to have a plan and I have to know where the line is drawn that makes it a true lost cause. I'm not sacrificing my life here, I just think that when I'm 70, I'd like be able to kiss her and tell her I'm so glad I invested a couple years in my 30s.

 

I don't hate her for being the way she is. It isn't always easy to like her, but I know what's underneath it all. I've had my share of failed relationships, but I was never the one to walk away.

 

And I'm not sure I can explain why I'm so committed. I think there are a lot of reasons. Parents were divorced, blah, blah. Afraid to be alone, blah, blah. Hate being single, blah, blah. Have my own insecurities, blah, blah. Maybe I'll wake up someday and realize it was all a waste of time. But on the other hand, I really freaking love her. I could eat her up, I worship her, she melts my heart. Without this she and I could soar.

 

I really haven't met anyone that has their sh*t together. Men, women, European, Asian, American. Urban, suburban, rural. Young, old, family, friends acquaintances, colleagues. Every damn one of them. Either you find someone with a problem you understand and can figure out, or you spend your life rejecting everyone. Honestly, everyone brings some kind of crap to the table you have to deal with. I'd like to have it up front. I'm actually really put off by people who seem like they have it together, because it's just a bigger investment and a bigger surprise to find out what their problem is. Sometimes they are more deviant than people who struggle out in the open.

 

That's my theory.

 

All I've ever seen is people walking away from relationships. Everywhere I look that's the best solution anyone ever seems to find. Someone show me something else for a change. I've seen breakups, I've seen divorce and heartache. I've seen Sex in the City. I've seen enough. I want to try the other side. Anyone know the relationship Yoda? Who has seen the movie Bliss?

[johan]

By the way, Arabess, I appreciate your replies. I need to be challenged on this. My girlfriend is no good for discussing this stuff, and I can't talk with friends or family, because they know her. And you acually were being kind of judgmental, but that's ok with me.

[Arabess]

Originally posted by johan

And you acually were being kind of judgmental, but that's ok with me.

 

I'm sorry...I was really trying NOT to be.

 

You said the accusiations were insulting. If she won't admit it, talk about it or get help...then aren't you giving yourself to a life of insults?

 

Sure, she could change....but what if she doesn't? You'll be doomed to spend your golden years not allowed to go out and play shuffleboard without her accusing you of boinking the Widow Smith down the road. HAHA!

 

I'd feel choked and stiffled in such a relationship.

[johan]

You said the accusiations were insulting. If she won't admit it, talk about it or get help...then aren't you giving yourself to a life of insults?

 

I hope not. I'm going to have to figure that out. That really isn't what I'm after. If thought that was OK, then I wouldn't have asked what to do about it.

 

Sure, she could change....but what if she doesn't? You'll be doomed to spend your golden years not allowed to go out and play shuffleboard without her accusing you of boinking the Widow Smith down the road. HAHA!

 

I'd feel choked and stiffled in such a relationship.

 

That's exactly how it feels. She has to change, that's a fact. I'm not so committed that I'll stick around no matter what. I'm just not convinced there is no solution. I'd work it out with her if there was a way. Counseling is expensive, and I'd like to make sure we can get results. That's really up to her. I think she has to soften up first. She has to go in searching for a solution, convinced that she has a problem to solve. And she has to be aggressive and brave. The alternative is the end of us.

 

I'm pissed that this is where it has to go. It seems much clearer to me today. Last night was hard. Do you have Widow Smith's number? If I'm going to get blamed for it, I might as well just go do it.

[mommy78]

from readin this, i think i am in the exact situation but im just like your gf and ur just like my bf. i have a trust issue with him and he's getting sick of it and tries to avoid talking about it. send me a message, maybe we can talk about this and get a different point of view.

[HokeyReligions]

Originally posted by tac719

I don't think anybody truly gets over it. They just learn how to deal with it better and understand it. When they begin to understand themselves that is when they turn the corner.

 

Good luck! You sound like a great guy, which will help her immensely.

 

good post.

 

I was like that when I was first married. I was very insecure. He had more partners before me. Out sex life was dropping off. We both gained weight. We had financial problems. I was terrified that he would leave me and I would be a failure again. He didn't want the kids but we had them anyway. He blamed himself and I blamed him too.

 

I treated him as though he had done something to me and he had not. He was a man and I had it in my head that all men were the same (I got that from my mother!)

 

After some years and some counseling (which I thought was for HIM, but it turned out it helped ME even more) I finally really 'got it' and from that point on I was able to really work to overcome the insecurities. It's not a struggle anymore and I really am secure with myself.

 

Suggest marriage counseling - but don't suggest it for her -- say that you want it to help you and to help you as a couple. Try marriage builders.com too. Don't give up, just understand that YOU cannot change her. She has to change herself --- but sometimes people can be tricked into making a change, such as with me going to counseling with my husband to support him and because of his problems. I learned a lot and the counseling helped me a bunch--so much that when we have faced some trials and tribulations in our marriage I have not hesitated to get outside help.

[Rated R]

I think that you should try to get to the root of her insecurity...If she's scared that you'll cheat or abandon her then you need to find out where is this fear of abandonment coming from? Did her ex boyfriend's let her down? Did her father abandon her? You need to help her figure out what her fear is, and what caused it, before her craziness drives you to abandon her.

[johan]

Mommy78, I'll get in touch.

 

RatedR, I've tried that. She had a difficult relationship with her dad and her first real boyfriend really screwed her over. She's a total perfectionist, and she's very critical. She's really afraid of how bad I could screw up her life, and she won't listen to me. The fact that she loves me has turned me into her biggest enemy. Go figure!

 

Hokey,

 

Woo hoo!! Someone claiming success. Wish you had responded sooner. Our only contact since Saturday was an email she sent telling me she loved me and then criticizing me for the same stuff again. She's so angry all the time. I didn't respond, because I knew there wasn't anything I could say. She just hates me. Because she loves me.

 

WE NEED COUNSELING! We've tried it, and it cleaned out my savings with no results. The counselor was starting to clue into her, but it was going to take a lot longer than I could afford. Tell me how you find a good one, maybe yours can recommend one for us. I don't think my insurance pays for it. How did you do it? Are you just rich? Does it count as marriage counseling if you aren't married? I'll have to check it out, or maybe someone knows of a good way to go that doesn't cost a fortune.

 

Were you like her?? What was the thought process that got you out of it?

 

I feel really sad today, because I miss her. This is our 2 year anniversary. On the other hand, this IS saving me some money.

[Not4me]

I just came from a relationship where I'm sure my boyfriend would say I was insecure, but there's a difference between insecurity and mistrust and I mistrusted him. For good reason too.

So, unless you are TRULY not doing anything to make her feel this way, I don't think really there's any way to make her stop behaving this way.

I mean, for some people, it's just an unattractive element of their personality and there's not much you can do to change it.

As for where to go in the relationship - I think you should sit and talk with her.

Let her know straight out how much her behavior is affecting you and your relationship with her.

Try to do it in such a way that does not sound like a threat or an ultimatum, as no doubt that will just make her more insecure & or angry.

Let her know it is disrupting your relationship and let her see the seriousness of it.

If she recognizes it within herself and wants to change - she will.

But you cannot make her and if she does not, well then you have to ask yourself if that is something you think you can live with and I'm guessing most people cannot live that way.

I know I can't.

Good luck.

[Fitmomof2]

Are you guys married Johan?

 

I can tell you that with my BF, we got to a point in our relationship when I felt like things were going so great for us and his friends all talked about how he should marry me.

 

He wasn't ready for it (obviously)... but I got really insecure and paranoid because I thought I was doing something wrong or something needed to change about me. Or that he was seeing someone else.

 

Maybe she's secretly aching for you to propose to her????

[Thinkalot]

Hi- I havent read all the replies here...but I have suffered insecurity, jealousy, obsessive questioning...etc about my bf's past. Nearly ended us. But I am much better now, and so is our relationship as a result. PM me if you want more info from me, or have a look in the self-improvement section at a couple of threads of mind still floating around in there.

 

Suggest counselling. Stick with her...but help her help herself. It will get better. Good luck. I know it can be tough on both people.

[Thinkalot]

Here are some links which may help..with advice I have written, and methods I have used:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t31412/

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t35488/

 

 

Of course, as you know, the key is...your partner taking the initiative and deciding to help herself. It takes courage to admit that you have issues. And it takes strength and determination to beat them. But it can be done!

 

I really wish you all the best.