Overcoming Apathy

[USMCHokie]

How does one overcome apathy...? Is it even possible if the trait is so deeply rooted in your personality that it affects all aspects of your life, including dating and relationships?

 

I do have high expectations for myself, and oftentimes I have been able to reach those expectations with minimal effort, but in those areas where I fall short of expectations, I don't care enough to make the extra effort. Instead, I mask my "failure" under the guise that I am simply content with the way things are and carry on with my life. And sometimes I'll complain about it.

 

I was recently asked where my "fighting spirit," ambition, and drive were...and to be honest, I don't think I've ever had it...

[Star Gazer]

Apathy is the wrong word, and you know it. It's not apathy at all.

 

You blame apathy and being a 'nice guy' as the root of your problems. As we've discussed, that's not it at all. You won't find progress until you acknowledge what's really going on.

[USMCHokie]

No, apathy is definitely the right word. And it's not just in dating, but also in education, career, and my personal life.

 

This thread wasn't necessarily directed at dating specifically, but in general...

[january2010]

I've found that the initial step is always the hardest to take. Once I get started, everything else just flows.

 

Having read some of your threads in the Fitness forum, what you've achieved, particularly regarding your dedication to health and fitness, is admirable. I'd go as far as to say that disproves your theory that apathy is deeply rooted in your personality.

 

I suspect that this is just a phase that will pass. And you'll be right as rain come the new year.

[Nightsky]

I was going to mention “fighting spirit” but you did first. Where do you think it is?

[northern_sky]

think back to a point in your life where you had that drive. Do you remember what the circumstances were?

[USMCHokie]

think back to a point in your life where you had that drive. Do you remember what the circumstances were?

 

Yes. It was during my first semester of college about 9 years ago...it started out with a weeklong "boot camp" induction into military school...I had never been challenged like that in my entire life; physically, mentally, and emotionally...

 

Nothing in my life since then has remotely come close to that in terms of challenge and fulfillment...

[laRubiaBonita]

I do have high expectations for myself, and oftentimes I have been able to reach those expectations with minimal effort, but in those areas where I fall short of expectations, I don't care enough to make the extra effort. Instead, I mask my "failure" under the guise that I am simply content with the way things are and carry on with my life. And sometimes I'll complain about it.

 

for me, i also have high expectations of myself. and while some goals i meet easily, other i struggle at attaining. i actually FAIL at some first attempts!

Failure does NOT sit well with me. i do not like failing.

 

you must make certain that you understand: just because your plan of action did not work the first, second, third time it does not mean you have failed- it just means (hopefully) that you are learning additional ways to meet your expectations.

The only time you fail is if you simply give up and do not try.

 

simply put you, need to teach yourself that not trying and settling is the bigger failure.

[Feelin Frisky]

Hokie, you may be teetering on the edge of what's often called the "mid-life crisis". Don't worry, I started having mine at 30 so it does happen to some people early. I, like many men, came to a point where I realized I had worked hard through the best years of my life (in my view at the time) and squandered great potential not knowing what I was really meant for and just trying to pull my own weight. But what helped me is that I started to realize that no one was "minding the store"--no one was keeping me down and there is no door I wouldn't walk through confident that I have the brains to compete if not out-score anyone else's. This was the beginning of a break with the chains of youth--the part that was confined by social circumstance and the part that was self-imposed.

 

I started to have a sort of Renaissance in my thinking and empowered myself to take on any philosophic challenge. I didn't go around boasting this, I just was engaged in "finding out" what I had ignored about life till then. This helped me to see what other people were ignoring. And I saw an enormous lot. From there it became easy to innovate--and more importantly, believe that my vantage in seeing things was firmly my own, unique and potentially valuable. All this helps a person to start discovering what his or her true interests will be. This is why many folk jettison their entire earlier lives and make radical career and direction changes as a result of the so-called "mid-life" crisis. People who were "employees" all their life, start businesses of their own. People who seemed successful in business, give it up and do something that puts them in touch with what they really value. I found my calling and know from the bottom of my heart what it is that I do with my life. The only thing left to make it all happen is the serendipity of meeting and persuading the right people to join me in success I know will be there in bounty.

 

So, maybe you are on the verge of finding out what it truly is that WILL capture your spirit but in the interim it just feels like apathy. It will surely lift if you just put yourself out there IRL and give yourself a chance to see how you can distinguish yourself from everyone else you encounter. Busk up, pal.

[northern_sky]

Yes. It was during my first semester of college about 9 years ago...it started out with a weeklong "boot camp" induction into military school...I had never been challenged like that in my entire life; physically, mentally, and emotionally...

 

Nothing in my life since then has remotely come close to that in terms of challenge and fulfillment...

 

Your experience reminds me of the one I had when I was 11 at a brutal summer biking camp. When I started the camp, I had very little biking experience and suddenly I was forced to bike upwards of 80 miles per day on extremely hilly terrain. We had drill sergeant like counselors who would yell at us to wake up every morning at the crack of dawn and whip us into shape if we lagged behind the other bikers. For first week of the camp I was bitching and writing letters home to my parents about how much I hated being there. But by the end, I felt a huge sense of accomplishment and hope. It is actually one of my fondest memories.

 

It sounds like you're like me in that you do best when you're in a structured environment that forces you to push yourself to the limit. It makes sense that you'd thrive in a community-centric program Crossfit, for this very reason. You're not a good self motivator without that structure. Fine. You can work around that.

 

So why not find pre-existing structured environments that are geared toward other aspects

of your life you want to improve outside of fitness?

 

Is there some sort of social network or club you can join where you won't have a choice but to socialize? That's just one example. I'm sure there are tons of creative solutions to this problem. But I think the key for you is finding a community where you will feel pressure to excel.

Edited December 29, 2010 by northern_sky

[january2010]

Hokie, you may be teetering on the edge of what's often called the "mid-life crisis".

 

It could be a quarter-life crisis rather than a mid-life crisis:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2180552.stm

 

That seems more age-appropriate.

[Star Gazer]

No, apathy is definitely the right word. And it's not just in dating, but also in education, career, and my personal life.

 

Well, as usual, your public persona contradicts the one behind closed doors. So I'll just leave you to these facades.

[johan]

Apathy is natural. I'm sure when you really care about something, you think about and do nothing else. So the reason you aren't really taking on these tasks you think you should be so motivated for is because, guess what: you don't really care.

 

It's not really natural for people to be highly motivated and single-minded about things at all times. We might have the most wonderful career and hobbies in the world, and we'll still get bored and let our minds get onto other things. Or nothing.

 

Sometimes you just can't care that much. What you have to do then is make sure you can get by and endure until the motivation comes back. Let that aspect of your life go on autopilot for a while. And if you find the motivation for something (school, work, fitness, dating, marriage, whatever) is not coming back at all, then you probably need to replace that activity in your life or just cut it out.

[northern_sky]

Apathy is natural. I'm sure when you really care about something, you think about and do nothing else. So the reason you aren't really taking on these tasks you think you should be so motivated for is because, guess what: you don't really care.

 

It's not really natural for people to be highly motivated and single-minded about things at all times. We might have the most wonderful career and hobbies in the world, and we'll still get bored and let our minds get onto other things. Or nothing.

 

Sometimes you just can't care that much. What you have to do then is make sure you can get by and endure until the motivation comes back. Let that aspect of your life go on autopilot for a while. And if you find the motivation for something (school, work, fitness, dating, marriage, whatever) is not coming back at all, then you probably need to replace that activity in your life or just cut it out.

 

I think this is a bit of a cop out, because it suggests what you care about isn't really in your control. I see the reality being closer to fake it until you make it. I say this with love, Johan, but I feel like you are projecting some of your own depressed attitude here.

 

Yes, there are certain things we naturally care about and don't have to pump ourselves up for. But in general, the ability to care about something in itself takes effort. It's known that the more effort you put into something, the more you care about it. That "care" rarely just materializes on its own. That's not to say you should try to care about things you don't value at all or only think you should value. But sometimes you know intellectually that you value something, but your heart needs some convincing.

 

It's like with a relationship. Usually to get attached to somebody, you have to let yourself get attached. Against common wisdom, attachment is a conscious choice (assuming all the elements of attraction and compatibility are there). It's a commitment of your heart, an investment. If you don't allow yourself to go there or put in the effort you won't care.

 

But caring about things is important, as long as they're healthy pursuits, and there's no reason to take the passive attitude that I will care about whatever I happen to care about without trying.

 

My ex-ex's father had this attitude that people should only pursue the things that come naturally to them and avoid things that are any kind of struggle. The end result for him was an unfulfilling career and a dead-end marriage.

Edited December 29, 2010 by northern_sky

[Feelin Frisky]

It could be a quarter-life crisis rather than a mid-life crisis:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2180552.stm

 

That seems more age-appropriate.

 

OK, so 20 is the new 30.

[johan]

But sometimes you know intellectually that you value something, but your heart needs some convincing.

 

There would be no need for convincing if it was natural to stay motivated and excited about something all the time. It's not natural. So when you find yourself feeling unmotivated, you have to recognize the underlying issue: you can't care that much all the time. Sometimes you need to focus on something else or yourself.

 

If you try to force yourself into a motivated state of mind, chances are all you'll do is turn whatever it is into drudgery. You could easily turn something important and interesting into something you never want to do again.

 

I'm not trying to say that when you feel apathy coming on, you should roll over like a sloth and let life go by. The key is to know when to hit the throttle and when your mind really does need a break.

 

I've been fortunate in my work that I've been able to back off and do what it takes to just get by and not really get into much trouble. In fact the opposite happens. I think Spookie and I have that in common.

[northern_sky]

There would be no need for convincing if it was natural to stay motivated and excited about something all the time. It's not natural. So when you find yourself feeling unmotivated, you have to recognize the underlying issue: you can't care that much all the time. Sometimes you need to focus on something else or yourself.

 

If you try to force yourself into a motivated state of mind, chances are all you'll do is turn whatever it is into drudgery. You could easily turn something important and interesting into something you never want to do again.

 

I'm not trying to say that when you feel apathy coming on, you should roll over like a sloth and let life go by. The key is to know when to hit the throttle and when your mind really does need a break.

 

I've been fortunate in my work that I've been able to back off and do what it takes to just get by and not really get into much trouble. In fact the opposite happens. I think Spookie and I have that in common.

 

OK, I see what you're saying. I guess it's all a matter of degree.

 

Still, I'm not sure I fully agree with the attitude you're advocating. I guess my response is, so what if it's not totally "natural?"

 

Too many people use the whole "do what's natural" philosophy to act lazy. There are a lot of things that come naturally to people that aren't healthy -- addictions, for example.

 

Realistically, you push yourself to do something that is part natural and part forced motivation.

[laRubiaBonita]

There are a lot of things that come naturally to people that aren't healthy -- addictions, for example.

 

Realistically, you push yourself to do something that is part natural and part forced motivation.

 

couldn't one argue that addictions are manifested from 'forced motivation?' usually addictions stem from an unhealthy motivation... but some start out as healthy things that turn into obsessive addiction (restrictive eating and over exercising for example).

[northern_sky]

couldn't one argue that addictions are manifested from 'forced motivation?' usually addictions stem from an unhealthy motivation... but some start out as healthy things that turn into obsessive addiction (restrictive eating and over exercising for example).

 

I'm not sure it's that simple. I think there are a lot of ways that people get addicted to things, and it really depends on the individual. In some cases you may be right that it starts out as a forced motivation, but in a sense what's more relevant to this discussion than how the addiction starts is what keeps it going...because that's what an addiction is, the compulsive repetition of a behavior.

 

From what I understand, what keeps the addiction going is entirely natural -- the way the brain is wired in terms of reward response and short term gratification. Some people naturally have "addictive personalities" that make them more prone to addictions than average. For these people in particular it is wise to fight against nature.

 

My point is that the bad habits people acquire are for the most part entirely natural. It is probably a lot easier, in fact, to start a bad habit than a good one.

[USMCHokie]

Thanks for the all the responses. It definitely gives me some things to think about.

 

I can definitely relate to everything Johan is saying, and I feel that same way a lot of times. Sometimes I just don't care, and I'm indifferent to the outcome. So there's no point in putting forth an effort into something that I'd be perfectly content having come out one way or the other.

 

And after thinking about it some more today, I realized that I never really put much effort into dating. Each time I dated a girl, it either just happened due to circumstance (e.g., the ex) or she was the aggressor and more or less did all the work in getting things started. I just went along for the ride.

[Jannah]

Thanks for the all the responses. It definitely gives me some things to think about.

 

I can definitely relate to everything Johan is saying, and I feel that same way a lot of times. Sometimes I just don't care, and I'm indifferent to the outcome. So there's no point in putting forth an effort into something that I'd be perfectly content having come out one way or the other.

 

And after thinking about it some more today, I realized that I never really put much effort into dating. Each time I dated a girl, it either just happened due to circumstance (e.g., the ex) or she was the aggressor and more or less did all the work in getting things started. I just went along for the ride.

 

This tells me, you function better with the rush, you operate better based off adrenaline - maybe? Boot camp, going along for the ride...those things combined may very well be the core of who you just are. There are definitely positive aspects in having those types of traits, high level of achievement, leadership - those are all great qualities to have Hokie.

 

Where that falls into your life in terms of dating and relationships, well, that's where a healthy dose of introspection, would be of value for you. And it seems like you have been doing that, which is great. Cliche' as it may be, the most important relationship a person can have, is with themself because it also involves and effects everyone around you.

[denise_xo]

How does one overcome apathy...? Is it even possible if the trait is so deeply rooted in your personality that it affects all aspects of your life, including dating and relationships?

 

I do have high expectations for myself, and oftentimes I have been able to reach those expectations with minimal effort, but in those areas where I fall short of expectations, I don't care enough to make the extra effort. Instead, I mask my "failure" under the guise that I am simply content with the way things are and carry on with my life. And sometimes I'll complain about it.

 

I was recently asked where my "fighting spirit," ambition, and drive were...and to be honest, I don't think I've ever had it...

 

You overcome it by facing it head on. I look at 'apathy' like a label (like 'depression') where you sink into negative thought patterns that frequently blur the real issues that are there and that need to be addressed. Of course, a phrase like 'facing it head on' is really easy to say and really hard to do - but I think that as well as being tough on oneself in some respects (because it is difficult), it often also involves giving yourself some slack. I don't know you, but in your posts you often sound like you're being quite hard on yourself in ways that you don't need to be. Maybe you need to readjust your self-critical focus to places where it would do better work and be a bit better to yourself in other areas.

 

I firmly believe that everyone has a 'fighting spirit' - you just need to find the right 'buttons'. I don't know where they key is for you, but since you display a high level of reflective capacity I can't imagine that this 'apathy' is so deeply rooted that you will be incapable of uprooting it. Good luck to you

[Yer_Blues]

There would be no need for convincing if it was natural to stay motivated and excited about something all the time. It's not natural.

.

Our lifestyles are not "natural". If you buy into evolution (i.e. you don't live under a rock), I can't see how anyone would make the argument that our natural programming is at all adaptive for modern life. We don't live in a natural environment where our main priorities are obtaining the basic resources we need to live while trying to reproduce and protect offspring from predators.

 

Think of the fight or flight stress response that goes off all the time. It's completely unhealthy and maladaptive. Our lifestyles are NOT what our biology is programmed for.

 

We need to use our mind, the almighty, malleable tool that is actually in our control, to figure out how to happily and successfully live in our world. Natural is not as significant as you are making it out to be.

[johan]

Our lifestyles are not "natural". If you buy into evolution (i.e. you don't live under a rock), I can't see how anyone would make the argument that our natural programming is at all adaptive for modern life. We don't live in a natural environment where our main priorities are obtaining the basic resources we need to live while trying to reproduce and protect offspring from predators.

 

Think of the fight or flight stress response that goes off all the time. It's completely unhealthy and maladaptive. Our lifestyles are NOT what our biology is programmed for.

 

We need to use our mind, the almighty, malleable tool that is actually in our control, to figure out how to happily and successfully live in our world. Natural is not as significant as you are making it out to be.

 

Ok, I can live with that. Good luck overcoming your nature.

[Ms. Joolie]

USMCHokie, it sounds to me like you are a high performer in your life.

 

You just haven't learned how to be the director yet. Try speculating on the life you want, the actions you want to take, the results you want to achieve.

 

I say this because it makes me uncomfortable hearing that you are falling short on your own expectations. There's something about having your own 'expectations' for yourself that doesn't jive for me. It's almost like I'm hearing that you are striving for expectations but not for what you really want. That would cause apathy, for sure.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Ms. Joolie