The Update I Thought I'd Never Write

[pureinheart]

I think we all trust your judgement Hazy...the guys are mostlikely protective over you:D, and that is a very cool thing because "guys know guys"!!!!!! I love how two guys can stand face to face, size each other up in nano seconds, no words and know exactly where the other is coming from...amazing!

[fooled once]

Hazy ... I can't remember this post but I AM impressed at the level of care and compassion jwi has shown by challenging you with this ... only someone who truly has your best interests at heart would take the time and risk upsetting you by pointing out the above ...

 

I feel like a real miser writing this post cause i KNOW just how up in the air him contacting you again has made you feel and WHO AM I to say that he's not completely reformed and your perfect partner.

 

I do, though, have to (cause I care) list a few things which appear to be facts and which, if someone else told you, might lead to you advising them not to get involved ...

 

a) He IS still married ... so yes, any relationship will be as an OW ... so you are overriding any boundary you have made about not getting involved with a married man again. Isn't this a red flag to YOUR boundaries .. and therefore shouldn't this be a NO on it's own?

b) There was, if I read your reply correctly, a very short time between him telling her and him contacting you ... isn't that just a huge red flag and shouldn't this just be a NO on it's own

c) He has not thought to control his actions and be entirely on his own whilst he sorts out this mess for the benefit of his child ... but instead has involved you immediately and, by all account, it is only YOU who is slowing it down ... he wants you in there right now ... isn't that a red flag and shouldn't this just be a NO on it's own ...

d) He has, in your own words, gaslighted another human being for 12 months ... and then, rather than give her the truth gently has just dumped it on her and them come immediately to you ... isn't THAT a red flag and shouldn't this just be a no on it's own

 

Hazy, might I suggest that these are not the actions of a "good man"?

 

OK, I KNOW every bit of you wants back in ... but I'm just challenging you as to what are your boundaries on what is a good relationship for Hazy ... and surely it's not something you can afford to be hazy on .. either you have your boundaries or you don't ...

 

OK, I feel this post is going to read very stroppy and it's not ... it's a post that says "I care" and also says "Please step back and consider is this a suitable relationship for you, does it conform to your requirements of a healthy relationship" ...

 

ie, I am trying to say that surely it is not about whether he has changed or not .... it is about whether Hazy has a set of rules which define what is a healthy relationship and what is an instant no-no ... and if Hazy does have such a set of rules then does this contravene any/all of them RIGHT NOW, as it stands- not at some mythical point in the future.

 

If so, what does Hazy do in that case?

 

You have worked *so* hard to get to where you are, and if this man really does love you and is a good guy then that love will not die during the years that it takes for him to close his marriage in a reasonable way to his wife, make his daughter his priority for as long as it takes to ensure her mental well-being, and give himself the time after all that to really work out why it went wrong, who is is and what he wants to do with his life.

 

Being a good man is not something you claim or go to counselling for. It is something you do, quietly and daily by yourself, in every choice you make. In my experience as a single father it involves NOT bringing drama into a situation so that your child's mental and emotional well-being is preserved, it involves saying No when you want to say yes because it is not the right thing for you child's health and it involves making every descision against the criteria "what is the right choice for the emotional well being and development of my child".

 

ps: I am not saying don't do it, I guess all I am saying is don't get mixed up between the vision of who you see and the behaviour you see. You have a man who has come to you far to soon, is still married, has got you back involved in a drama situation, has chosen not to focus (alone) on his daughter for the next 6-12 months to ease the transition , is promising to put you first (when common logic says that his daughter should come first) and would have you back over full time asap if it wasn't for you saying no.

 

I know that if I met someone who was trying to start a new relationship at a time when I thought they should be focused on their child then I would really wonder about their inner priorities ... and if they needed me to tell them that then I would really wonder about their inner values.

 

I suppose the good news is that maybe he is just behaving in this fashion due to intolerable mental stress/pressure ... but in that case you are choosing to get involved with someone who's promising you things whilst under intolerable mental stress/pressure .... ???

 

OK, you probably absolutely hate me now ... so I'm going to stop ... I think i've made my point ... I care for you, I care for your struggle to date and I personally don't think (from an impartial view) that this man is in any way ready for any new relationship. He should focus on his own daughter (even if separated from his wife) and show enough respect for his next partner to leave clear (1 year plus imho) space between for everyone to move on with minimal emotional stress (including him).

 

BUT ... i'm equally likely to be wrong and I certainly would not want you to make any choice based upon my views. All I want is for you to CHALLENGE yourself about the facts you already have.

 

I believe you have fought hard enough to earn yourself that honesty with yourself.

 

If you have and still want to go back in then you'll NEVER hear me criticize you for it .. because I know you have the deep down strength to own your descision and not shirk responsibility.

 

Whatever you choose, do so with your head held high Hazy and don't forget that the only one truly looking after you is you, and that is as it should be.

 

The absolute best of wishes

Chris

 

Chris, I hope my son grows up to be the remarkable, caring, compassionate man that I see in you. What a beautiful post.

 

Hazy, I agree with so much of what Chris said - and I bolded the really excellent points he made.

 

YOU know I care about YOU. YOU know this. I want you happy.

 

But I want you to be cautious. I want you to be careful. I know your eyes are all twinkly now and your emotions are full of butterflies...but please honey, step back and let him do the WORK he MUST DO in order to be in a healthy relationship. Please listen to Chris.

 

 

WWIU and FO, one thing I definitely will not do is the affair dynamic again. I haven't seen him since Wednesday as I think a little time will help, whereas in the A you jump at every opportunity and drop plans. He asked me to spend New Years with him but I had already arranged to be with my family so there was no way I would break that. Full honesty from this point onwards, no more sneaking around. He has offered his full time to me in that I can call him whenever and he will answer and he will tell no more lies about where he is when he's with me.

 

Or I'm off!

 

His wish for you to drop your plans to be with him shows me he hasn't even begun to work on himself and on learning to be ALONE. Why wasn't he with his daughter? Why is his immediate thought to be WITH someone vs working on himself? He wants you to lean on, to do the work for him and to fix it all. Which will just put you in a relationship with a broken dude. He doesn't need a mother. Right now, he doesn't need a girlfriend, and since he is married, he shouldn't have a girlfriend.

 

I am not sure how you forget the horrible things he did to you - just a few months ago. I don't know how you get past that. I am not sure you should let it go so quickly.

 

Please be careful my friend. I hated watching you hurt and I hate that you are being dragged back into an affair with him, with the promise of "one day soon" things will change.

 

Take care of Hazy. She is a good person and I like her a lot!! ((hugs))

[silverplanets]

Chris, I hope my son grows up to be the remarkable, caring, compassionate man that I see in you. What a beautiful post.

 

Thank you fooled ... though it frustrates me sometimes that I seem to take a lot of words to convey the point ... I am reminded of Churchill, I believe, who once said something like "If I had longer, it would be shorter" ...!!!

 

I do appreciate the compliment though :)

 

 

Hazy, I agree with so much of what Chris said - and I bolded the really excellent points he made.

 

YOU know I care about YOU. YOU know this. I want you happy.

 

But I want you to be cautious. I want you to be careful. I know your eyes are all twinkly now and your emotions are full of butterflies...but please honey, step back and let him do the WORK he MUST DO in order to be in a healthy relationship. Please listen to Chris.

 

You know, when I read the bit in bold I realised that it says something very profound ... "let him do the work he must do" .... the profound bit for me is that if you step WAY back and let someone do what they believe is proper (without you steering them or validating them in ANY way) then their actions will reveal some of their inner beliefs ....

 

Of course if you hint to them that it might be appropriate for them to spend time with their child then they might process that and then do it. But that's not the point .... you want to see what their priorities and thinking is WITHOUT your steer ... you want to see what they themselves decide ... because this will show you who THEY are, not who they want you to think they are.

 

Leave them well alone to behave as them ... and you will see them in their true light ...

 

If they don't do what you think is right then you have to then ask yourself if they have the same outlook on life and human nature as you do.

 

 

 

His wish for you to drop your plans to be with him shows me he hasn't even begun to work on himself and on learning to be ALONE. Why wasn't he with his daughter? Why is his immediate thought to be WITH someone vs working on himself? He wants you to lean on, to do the work for him and to fix it all. Which will just put you in a relationship with a broken dude. He doesn't need a mother. Right now, he doesn't need a girlfriend, and since he is married, he shouldn't have a girlfriend.

 

I am not sure how you forget the horrible things he did to you - just a few months ago. I don't know how you get past that. I am not sure you should let it go so quickly.

 

Please be careful my friend. I hated watching you hurt and I hate that you are being dragged back into an affair with him, with the promise of "one day soon" things will change.

 

Take care of Hazy. She is a good person and I like her a lot!! ((hugs))

 

Again - the bit in bold .. .it's a much cleaner way of putting my long outpouring .. and I love it.

 

Why would anyone, when *really* thinking about it want to be in any kind of relationship with a "broken dude/lady" .....

 

ps: not aiming any of this at Hazy specifically ... just saying I love the way you've summarised it fooled.

 

Hope you're doing ok Hazy

 

Chris