STBXW Is Cruel

[IfiKnewThen]

good advise dreaming

[marqueemoon4]

Well she just came to the house with a friend and my son to get the rest of her stuff. Completely unaffected. I keep thinking I can call her later and talk and we're still close, but we're not. Short of swapping our son and the divorce we're nothing.. have to let go 100% and move on. This is over. I don't know if I can ever forgive you for this. Goodbye Amanda.

Edited January 15, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[dreamingoftigers]

Really? I just reread my last post and it doesn't mention anything negative about her at all. Its about my struggle to accept my role for the failure of our marriage and coming to terms with the fact she doesn't care anymore. To come to terms with the situation with our son. Yes, its hurts terribly still that I won't be in his life every day, and yes I miss my wife. I would do anything to mend our relationship, no matter what it took. But as she stated, "I made my bed now I have to lie in it". Its easy to say that and put all the blame on me because she doesn't care. If she desperately wanted to make things right between us she would have to take some responsibility. It's much easier (for her) just to quit and move on. It absolves her of any wrongdoing and renders my feelings completely invalid.

 

I agree with what you're saying, and yea if I could change the title I would. I am seeing my son and we have an excellent relationship. My fathering skillz have improved exponentially, about the only good thing that has come of this. You're right, I don't like her decision, but its hers to make. Unfortunately its has cost me dearly emotionally, financially, and with time with my son. I know, sh*t happens, but after being there for her for 8yrs, everything we've been through, the negative impact its having on my son, and the fact I have made real change in my life that she will never see makes it extremely hard to let go. Divorce was never an option for me, and we never really put much work into our marriage. At the present time I see my son 28.5% of the time.

 

Another thing I wanted some clarification on.. last time I talked her (yes, bad idea) she said she has a group of friends that "adore her" and treat her great. Thats fantastic, I always encouraged her to make friends, but she is now twisting it saying I gave her a hard time when she wanted to go out. Complete nonsense. Another thing, talk about comparing apples and oranges, you can't compare how your friends treat you compared to how your husband treated you, thats two completely different things, two completely different dynamics. My friends like and respect me and I feel the same way about them. I would never compare my friendships with my relationship to my wife.

 

 

Really? I just reread my last post and it doesn't mention anything negative about her at all. Its about my struggle to accept my role for the failure of our marriage and coming to terms with the fact she doesn't care anymore. To come to terms with the situation with our son. Yes, its hurts terribly still that I won't be in his life every day, and yes I miss my wife. I would do anything to mend our relationship, no matter what it took. But as she stated, "I made my bed now I have to lie in it". Its easy to say that and put all the blame on me because she doesn't care. If she desperately wanted to make things right between us she would have to take some responsibility. It's much easier (for her) just to quit and move on. It absolves her of any wrongdoing and renders my feelings completely invalid.

 

You could very well be right. I looked at the line about it not emotionally affecting her at all and it looked like reading that with the other things that you have said about her:

 

STBXW Is Cruel

 

basically wouldn't go away.

 

upped her hours at work and had me watch our son pretty much every second she was working (27hrs) on top of the 42hrs I worked already. (this can go one way or the other)

 

is incredibly cold and callous,

 

She says horribly cruel things to me, and knows how much I love her and want her back.

 

1. for your actions you lose your family! (possibly the most hurtful thing ever said to me)

2. you only want to spend more time with your son so you don't have to pay as much child support

3. said I'm a "mean person", not just to her but in general. Pretty much everyone who knows me would disagree with that.

 

I just still am shocked someone I was with so long can be so callous and cruel. She knows this is really hurting our son too, and doesn't care.

 

She is absolutely not going to budge. (This is predicting)

 

and she thinks I'm guilting her by saying how its hurting our son.

 

I have taken 90% of the blame for the failure of the marriage, she doesn't want to even take 10%. Its not what she wants anymore, I guess she wants to be on her own and have me as a babysitter and ATM, nothing else.

 

I still think she is seeing someone else, (negative theorizing)

 

She also put our son way ahead of me from the day he was born (8mos before we were married). (way it was presented in paragraph sounds negative within context)

 

she is probably going to try and take as much from me as she can. (negative predicting)

 

having planned out the whole thing behind my back, and the fact it appears she has no feelings whatsoever for me anymore. Still though, I had to marry someone who can be incredibly cold and heartless. Lucky me.

 

This woman is a ROBOT. She has been completely predictable, like mentioned before and shows no weakness whatsoever.

 

She must really love the control she has right now. I asked her how she could be so heartless and cruel to the father of her son,

 

I don't think its bothering her emotionally at all.

 

Anyways, with the general context of the posting, I would think that the last line would fit somewhere in with the rest, not necessarily as any kind of factual statement but as furthering an opinion that this woman is punishing you by having no visible feelings to you about the circumstance you are both in.

 

You might be right but it seems that your power has been sapped by her actions. Family divorce is not an enviable place to be in and has some of the greatest negative effects of any stressful life circumstance. But at this point you seem to be giving your personal power and energy over to what she is doing/not doing. You also seem to be doing things/saying things to try to poke an emotional reaction out of her.

 

I am not saying that you are doing abusive or cruel things, but you still seem to be there trying to use your position as being helpless to possibly get you what you want. (Just not in the extreme).

 

This is not me poking you or trying to be insulting. Quite frankly, I don't envy you in the least and can relate to the spectrum of emotions you are going through waiting for this thing to come to a close one way or the other. You seem to feel pretty stuck. My point in asking you how that helps you is this: you are waiting for things to happen around you to decide your life and feelings (not as bad as some I have seen on here, by far).

 

That means the external matters still have power over you and what happens with the way you govern your life. At this point you have probably acquired all of the information about the situation and if not, you have the means at your availability to do so. Yet you remain stuck. You are working on your issues (I am not faulting you here) but you remain stuck in the waiting room of your own life.

 

I agree with what you're saying, and yea if I could change the title I would. I am seeing my son and we have an excellent relationship. My fathering skillz have improved exponentially, about the only good thing that has come of this. You're right, I don't like her decision, but its hers to make. Unfortunately its has cost me dearly emotionally, financially, and with time with my son. I know, sh*t happens, but after being there for her for 8yrs, everything we've been through, the negative impact its having on my son, and the fact I have made real change in my life that she will never see makes it extremely hard to let go. Divorce was never an option for me, and we never really put much work into our marriage. At the present time I see my son 28.5% of the time.

 

So the fact that she won't see your changes and accept any responsibilty for her part in it is probably the number one factor in trying to get her attention in any way. She knows this, she can spot the resent coming a mile away. Resent is frustration and anger over trying to get someone to move in a direction that you want, and they simply won't. You have acknowledged that she has the right to do what she wants even though it affects you so negatively. What you haven't acknowleged (it seems) is that you cannot ever garner the response you want from her because she seems pretty set in her decision. Being angry about the way this affects you life is not the same thing as recent. Anger would give you the motivation to go a direction to improve things, resent sticks you in one spot trying to get the other to move.

 

You have let her non-response turn your life upside down. What you may have failed to realize is that you still have things in your life that allow you to make it not just good but great. You still have your son, not as much as you want but you still have him. You can focus all of your energy on trying to wish she would budge on her hardline stance, or you can give your son the best time ever when he is with you. You can focus that energy on your work and bettering yourself. You can focus that energy on spiritual matters. You can focus that energy on doing just about any other activity that enriches your life. By doing that, you pass on greater things to your son automatically.

 

Even if your focus is still getting some kind of reaction our of her and handing over your personal power to her, the best way to get a reaction would be to 100% take care of yourself and that would turn you into someone she didn't recognize. By then though, you would be able to generate your own happiness enough that her reaction would not be necessary to validate you.

 

She is not likely to validate you or your son's pain. All the energy in the world, all of the spinning in the same circle of emotional helplessness is probably not going to change that.

 

Truly I would wonder why you need to see that validation from her. If she is someone that truly is all of the things you say above, does her validation not seem necessary? You are here looking for validation for your pain as well (it seems). What will that give you that you cannot possibly give yourself?

 

Your pain is valid. Absolutely. No question. Having pain for losing one's family unit, no matter what one has done is valid, and you fit the bill.

 

Now what? To make your life a great one, you need to pick a direction from here. There is no point in sitting on Validation Island. Come visit here every now and then when you need to. But knowing this now, is your direction to try to do a last-ditch save to free yourself from any future questioning or is your direction to know that you have had all of those questions answered and that you will now focus on moving yourself as far forward as you can until she files?

 

Sitting in the middle for months garners you nothing, it gives your son nothing and it keeps you depressed For. Nothing. Give yourself the validation you need to know that you have either done all that you can or that you have some things left to do. Then, you slowly drag yourself off of the ground from falling and pull yourself through all of the uncomfortable feelings of failure that occur every time something changes in life and keep on your path to happiness and self-management.

 

I think for someone going through a D process that you have made amazing steps in seeking counseling and pulling yourself forward, it just seems like you have kept yourself too hinged to her and it is causing you too much pain to easily walk your path. It is like you are carrying her on your shoulders as you walk, that kind of baggage will slow anyone down and weigh heavily on them. You need to leave her choice behind you and do everything you can to protect your heart from either rejection or from questioning your own self-worth. Her response is not what gives you self-worth, it is what YOU do that does.

 

Don't think that I am saying that you are sitting around on your ass waiting for the latest great thing to come into your life. The only reason I mention it is that by waiting for something that may not come, you miss out on months or maybe even years of progressing in your own happiness. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

Another thing I wanted some clarification on.. last time I talked her (yes, bad idea) she said she has a group of friends that "adore her" and treat her great. Thats fantastic, I always encouraged her to make friends, but she is now twisting it saying I gave her a hard time when she wanted to go out. Complete nonsense. Another thing, talk about comparing apples and oranges, you can't compare how your friends treat you compared to how your husband treated you, thats two completely different things, two completely different dynamics. My friends like and respect me and I feel the same way about them. I would never compare my friendships with my relationship to my wife.

 

This post and the fact that you wrote it is a prime example of a few things:

 

1. She is withholding that validation from you.

2. You are reaching for a way to validate yourself

3. It actually shows that she is either relationally immature or that she is wanting some kind of validation from you. She would most likely (and from everything else you have said) not be the best candidate for a healthy partner either, she is seeking her own happiness and fulfillment from outside forces too. It would seem like she wants to hear from you that you adore her and respect her and maybe that you haven't before and been really really wrong. You may have even taken responsibility for things like that and it may not even have been your responsibility to take. The point is that she wants to hear it, maybe just to make that peace with her own decision. She is still entangled and not in a healthy way.

 

Well she just came to the house with a friend and my son to get the rest of her stuff. Completely unaffected. I keep thinking I can call her later and talk and we're still close, but we're not. Short of swapping our son and the divorce we're nothing.. have to let go 100% and move on. This is over. I don't know if I can ever forgive you for this. Goodbye Amanda.

 

This line holds you to her, you can't let her go and not forgive her, the two do not jive. They are opposite directions and you can't go in two directions at once. Even if you need to decide to rage and stew and be sad for awhile until you forgive her, then at least you are going somewhere, even if it is the wrong direction. If you go the wrong way usually you can see that you need to turn around and head somewhere else because you aren't getting where you want to go. At least pick something.

[dreamingoftigers]

sorry about somehow double-posting the quotes.

[marqueemoon4]

Dreaming you made so many valid points I can't possibly respond to each. You are right, I keep poking at her to see if I can get any emotion from her, if anything is still there, and I keep coming up completely empty. I'm stopping that. I don't know why I need validation from her so badly, I guess its unhealthy but without my family I feel pretty much useless. I took your advice and did a session with a Divorce Busters coach, even though it is probably futile. It was pretty good, the coach I talked to had a lot of good ideas, most of which I had heard before but hadn't adhered too. First and foremost, stop chasing! Don't tell her I love her anymore! I'm day 3 NC since she picked up her things saturday. I'm going to try and make myself the best person I can, not for her but for myself and our son. I don't want to be divorced, but its really not looking good. I told her I had let go 100% on friday, and wished her the best. She said she appreciated it. I had this compulsion to call her mother today while she was at work and tell her that I'll miss having her as my mother in law. I really do regret I didn't spend more time getting to know her, I like her alot. I decided that would be a bad idea so I didn't do it.

 

Also, she knows I respect her and adore her, I've told her numerous times. It does not appear I'm going to be able to back up my words. I get caught in that whole thing about if you really respect someone you accept their decision and let them be, regardless of the damage it does to me. I went about saving the marriage when she first left in a way I would want, and obviously that just made things worse. I'm the type who wants someone to fight for me, to show how much they care. She wanted to be left alone. This is my first marriage, and since we had been together 8yrs I was completely out of practice on how to handle someone who was pulling away. I guess I need to "man up and move on" (her words).

Edited January 17, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[IfiKnewThen]

i felt like that too. regreting i didnt talk to someones mom more. get to be better friends...etc...in a relationship. it's just that all the losses come to surface. even things you didnt realize you took for granted...unknowingly.

 

i pray you get peace. i am working on peaceful situations myself. its so not easy.

 

all i can offer you is this thread for coping..if it gets to that point and she does D. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t244265/

 

its a post from Mcgrupp. its a bit of a read but scroll down to his story how he coped. i printed it out and keep it for reference.

 

God bless

[IfiKnewThen]

some more interesting stuff to read http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t211578/

[marqueemoon4]

thanks for the links.. that McGrupp thread was priceless.

 

ugh, I had a vivid dream of her and I having passionate sex last night (in reality this didn't happen much during our marriage). I woke up and it was time to go to work, the condo was empty (except for my dog) and we had freezing rain overnight. Sigh.

Edited January 18, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[marqueemoon4]

Day 4 of NC, wish me luck.

[marqueemoon4]

So just to recap:

 

1. gone since May 2010

2. she has been NC except for talk about our son since August 2010

3. told me it was over and I'm not coming back numerous times

4. told me to "man up and move on with my life"

5. said her feelings for me were gone on a number of occasions

6. moved out 99% of her stuff last saturday

7. we both have attorneys

8. has been either extremely angry or completely indifferent towards me

9. said I made my bed now I have to lie in it

10. has put almost all blame for the failure of the marriage on me

11. will be getting over $1000 a month for spousal/child support from me

12. shows no remorse that I see our son 9 days a month

13. stated she'll file in May 2011 after the year separation period in VA

14. appears to dating someone else, though she vehemently denies it

15. stated my change is too little too late

 

 

I think its safe to say this is irrepairable

[marqueemoon4]

Here's a question-- should i break NC (granted only a few days) to tell her that if she does indeed go through with divorcing me that we will never be anything again, friends or otherwise? She probably wouldn't care.. and it would make me look stupid I would guess. Thoughts?

[dreamingoftigers]

So just to recap:

 

1. gone since May 2010

2. she has been NC except for talk about our son since August 2010

3. told me it was over and I'm not coming back numerous times

4. told me to "man up and move on with my life"

5. said her feelings for me were gone on a number of occasions

6. moved out 99% of her stuff last saturday

7. we both have attorneys

8. has been either extremely angry or completely indifferent towards me

9. said I made my bed now I have to lie in it

10. has put almost all blame for the failure of the marriage on me

11. will be getting over $1000 a month for spousal/child support from me

12. shows no remorse that I see our son 9 days a month

13. stated she'll file in May 2011 after the year separation period in VA

14. appears to dating someone else, though she vehemently denies it

15. stated my change is too little too late

 

 

I think its safe to say this is irrepairable

 

Blunty put, I 99.8% agree, but I would only totally agree when the divorce papers are signed. I am just stubborn like that though. Given the information you have, you can still pick either direction, both paths are actuallly leading the same way anyways, just one has what looks to be a short detour.

 

Here's a question-- should i break NC (granted only a few days) to tell her that if she does indeed go through with divorcing me that we will never be anything again, friends or otherwise? She probably wouldn't care.. and it would make me look stupid I would guess. Thoughts?

 

You could just send an email to just state what your new boundaries are. This isn't stupid to say:

 

I have been working on improving my own life and circumstance. I also realize that for the past while I have been trying to get a reaction out of you or get you to change your mind. While it might be possible to get a reaction from you or change your mind, it isn't what I want to do. I want someone to be in a relationship with me because they decide to be and want to be. I apologize if this has made an already difficult situation worse.

 

That being said, I have created some new boundaries for myself:

 

1. I entirely respect your choice and your right to make it.

 

2. Your life is yours to live and I won't interfere with it. I wish to teach my son respect for others as well and that's means accepting other's choices that he may not agree with. While I don't agree with your choice and believe that it will cause long-term damage to our child that could otherwise have been avoided, it is yours to make. You can judge the consequences for yourself.

 

3. If you have decided once and for all to continue with and conclude our divorce I would like no further contact with you outside of any concerns for our son. This means we would not be friends or otherwise in the future. At that point I would prefer to leave our marriage completely behind us.

 

4. If there is any chance of any kind of reconciliation, we would both need plenty of work on our issues, so if that were to occur we would both need to agree to do some serious self-work. The collaspse of this marriage was not one person's fault, whereas one healthy person can do wonders to repair their broken self and reach out to the other, they cannot do it all and there needs to be two healthy people to make a marriage truly "work."

 

5. For the remainder of this seperation I would prefer that we not have any unkindness towards one another. There is no need for anymore hurtful things or demands from either one of us, nor any blaming. It simply is what it is at this point.

 

I wish you luck in whatever you decide to finally do.

 

 

Does that sound stupid? I think it sounds like you are sticking your flag in the ground and becoming seperate from the emotional wounds you are enduring.

 

Marqueemoon, I admit that I was expecting a huge yell back from my epic post, (just because I was sure I would hit a nerve in there somewhere) thanks for the post back.

 

My own marriage is a train-wreck often and I know every time I have staked out a boundary and held to it, it has helped immensely. Anytime I have put responsibility for my own feelings on my H (or he on me) it has disintegrated it a bit. I hope things go well for you.

[marqueemoon4]

Dreaming thanks for the suggestions... yea thats kinda the speech I gave her friday night when she was picking up my son, in so many words. I'm pretty sure I left the door wide open though, like I care for you a great deal and since I do I have to let you go 100%. I don't think the threat of never being friends or anything for that matter would register with her at all, at least not now. Especially if she's totally distracted by a OM and wants me out of her life anyway. And she's the one who is always saying she only wants to talk about our son, not us. I'm backed into a corner here, with nothing to do but somehow try to deal with the situation and forget about her and our marriage.

 

The Divorce Busters lady was saying she hears the same stuff all the time and they've had much worse situations turn around.. of course plenty of people win the lottery too. I'm going to continue NC until and after the divorce. If she actually wants to talk about anything I'll definitely listen, but my guess it will be about something SHE wants. I really need to stop talking about this, its such a done deal. She still hasn't said goodbye either.. maybe she's the type not to.

Edited January 18, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[IfiKnewThen]

i am glad you like mcgrupps thread or found it priceless. i know i did : ) hehe.

 

i cried when it got toards the end. where hesays that was a great **** sandwich.

 

 

you have to make your days have these little happiness things. till they add up. even if its a great sandwich.

 

anway good luck. i would do N/c too if you cant get through to her. but always treat her with kindness.

 

 

i believe in trying to do things like the almighty tells us too. because he sure knows better than us. so with that..i would continue to be nice to her....and treat her decent w/o attitude and respect..and then after real sufficent time has passed....(like the story of the dead olive tree in the bible) ..i would consider it dead and forge forward and treat her how she treats you then...but never get real nasty. you are better than that. God bless

[marqueemoon4]

I will continue to be the bigger person and be civil to her. And I'm pretty sure she'll continue to treat me like nothing. I just want to stop missing her and my son

Edited January 18, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[marqueemoon4]

I thought she was the love of my life.. and by the longest I've ever been with. She said our relationship "had its moments". Good thing I'm starting not to care what she thinks.

[marqueemoon4]

God give me the strength to make it through day 5 of NC. I'm really having urges to reason with her. It's a waste of time, give it up.

[robf1971]

God give me the strength to make it through day 5 of NC. I'm really having urges to reason with her. It's a waste of time, give it up.

 

Just a quick question? how comes you only get to see your son 9 days per month?

 

I also think what you are doing is great, let her do all the contacting

[andrew-bkk]

Also, she knows I respect her and adore her.

 

No, she doesn't know that. What she knows is that you are verbally abusive and that your comments, anger and spite cut like a knife.

 

She's cold because you hurt her -- but she started going cold long before the split. That's why she's coping so much better than you. She withdrew from the marriage ages ago.

 

Leave her alone. Don't aologise and don't say you love her. If she wants to come back, she will. And if she can see that you've changed, she'll warm to you.

 

But it'll take a long time. A very long time.

 

Stay cool!

[marqueemoon4]

No, she doesn't know that. What she knows is that you are verbally abusive and that your comments, anger and spite cut like a knife.

 

She's cold because you hurt her -- but she started going cold long before the split. That's why she's coping so much better than you. She withdrew from the marriage ages ago.

 

Leave her alone. Don't aologise and don't say you love her. If she wants to come back, she will. And if she can see that you've changed, she'll warm to you.

 

But it'll take a long time. A very long time.

 

Stay cool!

 

 

I could be verbally abusive at times, during fights. Its something I've worked a great deal on, and will continue to. And you're right, I did hurt her. She hurt me plenty too but her thing was withholding love/affection/intimacy. What came first? I have no idea.

 

I assume when you say a long time you mean years?

Edited January 19, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[marqueemoon4]

Everyone has told me I need to kill my feelings for this person, including her. Why the hell can't I? I am beginning to think there IS something wrong with me.

[marqueemoon4]

ok, asked about my son via text, haven't since saturday. That is still technically NC. Leave it at that.

[dreamingoftigers]

It wouldn't be normal to kill your feelings for her, I think you may have misinterpreted some of the posts. Your feelings are going to head in that direction, she is the mother of your children.

 

What you can do however, is guide your actions to create a new dynamic in your life (and this may take a year or so, literally the second I gave up on my husband he started digging his head out of his ass, then I was annoyed. Go figure.)

 

You start to build a life for you and your son without her. You find a healthy focus (meditation is wonderful for this, really wonderful, but most guys won't try it ). You give yourself a chance to truly grieve and figure your own stuff out.

 

Basically your feelings are going to tell you that something is off, something is wrong, you want your family. How do you kill that? You can't and it is a ridiculous notion. You simply focus on making your life the best instead of feeding the feelings and wrapping yourself in the thoughts that "this is wrong, I have lost everything, my life sucks."

 

You tell yourself this is what I want my life to include:

 

1. A great place for my son

2. A healthy relationship

3. Compose a great musical (or whatever)

 

Then write down the first five things that take you in that direction.

 

In the healthy relationship category, you see if your continued contact/mulling over her is helping you get to a healthy relationship or hindering your ability to get there. At this point she has largely emotionally cut you out and mulling over her/reasoning with her has failed to bring her back. Since she isn't receptive I personally would suggest making your own life/environment the best it can be to attract a healthier relationship into your life, it may be her, it may not.

[marqueemoon4]

It wouldn't be normal to kill your feelings for her, I think you may have misinterpreted some of the posts. Your feelings are going to head in that direction, she is the mother of your children.

 

What you can do however, is guide your actions to create a new dynamic in your life (and this may take a year or so, literally the second I gave up on my husband he started digging his head out of his ass, then I was annoyed. Go figure.)

 

You start to build a life for you and your son without her. You find a healthy focus (meditation is wonderful for this, really wonderful, but most guys won't try it ). You give yourself a chance to truly grieve and figure your own stuff out.

 

Basically your feelings are going to tell you that something is off, something is wrong, you want your family. How do you kill that? You can't and it is a ridiculous notion. You simply focus on making your life the best instead of feeding the feelings and wrapping yourself in the thoughts that "this is wrong, I have lost everything, my life sucks."

 

You tell yourself this is what I want my life to include:

 

1. A great place for my son

2. A healthy relationship

3. Compose a great musical (or whatever)

 

Then write down the first five things that take you in that direction.

 

In the healthy relationship category, you see if your continued contact/mulling over her is helping you get to a healthy relationship or hindering your ability to get there. At this point she has largely emotionally cut you out and mulling over her/reasoning with her has failed to bring her back. Since she isn't receptive I personally would suggest making your own life/environment the best it can be to attract a healthier relationship into your life, it may be her, it may not.

 

 

very true, very true.

 

 

GO FLAMES!!!

[dreamingoftigers]

very true, very true.

 

 

GO FLAMES!!!

 

A ha haha !!! Awesome!!! :D:D:D:D:D