STBXW Is Cruel

[marqueemoon4]

huge hockey fan

 

I just realized something about my marriage that I'm not supposed to be thinking about-- it was codepent. She had low self esteem, and was unable to set healthy boundaries with me. She pretty much let me do anything I wanted, and in time I ended up taking advantage of that. When she started realizing she was doing this, she started to pull back, which made me think she didn't appreciate everything I was doing for her, and led me to treat her badly. Also might explain why she is so absolutely rigid on why she won't take a chance on our marriage again, she fears it'll go right back to the way it was, and she's focusing on herself and our son 100% of the time now. Hence why she said she had nothing left to give me.

[dreamingoftigers]

huge hockey fan

 

I just realized something about my marriage that I'm not supposed to be thinking about-- it was codepent. She had low self esteem, and was unable to set healthy boundaries with me. She pretty much let me do anything I wanted, and in time I ended up taking advantage of that. When she started realizing she was doing this, she started to pull back, which made me think she didn't appreciate everything I was doing for her, and led me to treat her badly. Also might explain why she is so absolutely rigid on why she won't take a chance on our marriage again, she fears it'll go right back to the way it was, and she's focusing on herself and our son 100% of the time now. Hence why she said she had nothing left to give me.

 

You should be thinking about that, realizing why it was unhealthy to begin with and how not to get involved in another co-dependent relationship again. The same thing has happened in my relationship, we started out when I had low self-esteem. He took care of me and I drew my self-esteem from the fact that I married a guy that was a saint to me. I would go out of my way and put tons and tons into our marriage. I would spend literally an entire day off in the kitchen making full-course meals and desserts from scratch because I thought that is what good wives did. I would cook something different and complex every single night. He actually resented it and how much it cost.

 

It turned out that he wasn't a saint and had cheated on me since our first year of marriage. I found out when I was 8 months pregnant. It has been an incredibly rough road since then, we discuss divorce every week. Lately I have been going to a support group for co-dependents and I have been much less tolerant of my lifestyle and have been doing more things more (for) myself. The walls are pretty far up when it comes to my husband.

 

I know I have (had?) boundary issues, we once did a boundary exercise in marriage counseling with wool and when she put the wool boundary down around my chair, I cried. Pretty mental. I thought that having any single boundary would isolate me even further and I already felt pretty unloved. Boundaries have actually given me much more freedom because I can let in what I want and not be held down by other's expectations and unhealthy emotional swings. If I am feeling that my husband won't ensure my safety, I go and ensure my own, if that includes staying away from him, that is the way the cookie crumbles.

 

The problem with someone that has unresolved co-dependency issues is that when their bottom line finally gets hit, they don't know how to ask for what they need. And if they do, it is often so muted and unassertive that they aren't taken seriously anyways. My husband discovered very much the hard way what my bottom line was. I lashed out at him for over a year.

 

Now I just set my piece where I need to set it, and that's all. I don't trample on his feelings anymore but I don't respond to being forgotten about or not listened to. I think that last night was the first time in a long time that he dug his head from his ass. I got this in my email this morning:

 

I love you and I want you to feel that way.

I am sorry for everything I have done to contribute to your feelings of neglect and abandonment/unwontedness.

 

Aside from the spelling, it is a very nice gesture. It has also taken over a year of first hammering on the head, tolerance, venting on LS and doing self-work to get to. Getting through a co-dependent relationship isn't easy.

 

Most co-dependent relationship don't work this way though, many just have one co-dependent suffer it out until they are way past the end of their rope and then they just snap back; like an elastic band. They just stop hoping and disappear. There tends not to be any: "look, this is a deal-breaker for me, and it if happens again, I am leaving."

 

It sounds like she has already grieved so much within the relationship that she gave up any hope of it changing long ago. This means the relationship dissolving was not entirely your fault. I suspect this is also what you want her to validate. It is hard to explain to someone who may not be co-dependent, but she can never admit that to you. What that means to a co-dependent is that in a way she will owe you that relationship. She also knows that she can't take going back there again.

 

When she says "she has nothing left to give you" that is a major clue right there that that is exactly how she feels about having a relationship, it means her giving. Something also distinctly tells me that she doesn't know how or what to ask you to give back anyways.

 

There was quite an age gap too, a lot of times that can create some social isolation. Stats and studies, I didn't make that up on the fly.

 

Now that you have an idea about what is broken, where to do want to be? A fair amount of people are pretty good at figuring out how they got to where they are, now what is going to set you apart from the crowd?

[dreamingoftigers]

PS: I love hockey too, who the Hell do you cheer for down their anyways?

 

The Northern Virginia Politicians? LOL

[IfiKnewThen]

i related to a lot of things you talked about dreaming. our situations are different...but i related to a lot of things you said.

 

just thought i'd mention that:)

[marqueemoon4]

PS: I love hockey too, who the Hell do you cheer for down their anyways?

 

The Northern Virginia Politicians? LOL

 

25 minutes from DC.. been a Capitals fan since I was a kid! I should be used to heartbreak!

[marqueemoon4]

It sounds like she has already grieved so much within the relationship that she gave up any hope of it changing long ago. This means the relationship dissolving was not entirely your fault. I suspect this is also what you want her to validate. It is hard to explain to someone who may not be co-dependent, but she can never admit that to you. What that means to a co-dependent is that in a way she will owe you that relationship. She also knows that she can't take going back there again.

 

When she says "she has nothing left to give you" that is a major clue right there that that is exactly how she feels about having a relationship, it means her giving. Something also distinctly tells me that she doesn't know how or what to ask you to give back anyways.

 

I can forgive myself for the big mistakes I made, the two major drama events in May and July, and for a lot of other things. Unfortunately SHE CAN'T. It feels like she is pointing a gun at me, I'm standing there with my arms in the air saying "A, please put the gun down, I don't mean you any harm.. please I need you to trust me" and she won't. She's going to shoot and kill me (divorce me). She is in full DEFENSE mode, and is still angry. I feel like I've been suffering for 7mos and have figured out SO MUCH and I want her to know but its probably too late. Really, alot of the mistakes that were made were because I didn't understand what was going on and my own defense mechanisms took over. And this doesn't even take into consideration any of the mistakes she made, and there were alot. Its much easier just to throw your arms up and say I GIVE UP. Yes, alot of bad things have happened between us, but there has been way more good over the 8yrs. Why do I continue this battle in my mind? Because she is the love of my life and because I want our son the advantage of a healthy family unit.

 

Our son is starting karate today, she wants me to meet her after work to watch. I really need to keep my mouth shut about us and just enjoy seeing him have fun. I pray she comes to me to discuss things before she goes through with any final decisions. I doubt she will.

[marqueemoon4]

ps- Flames got trounced 6-0 by the Wild? AT HOME?? Ouch!

[marqueemoon4]

Have I been a total nightmare in her eyes the last few months trying to convince her to give me one more chance? Does she not understand that whether she has the justification or not to do it, how horrible its going to be for our son and I? Why do people get married if at the end of the day everyone just looks out for themselves??

Edited January 20, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[marqueemoon4]

Ok rhetorical question for people here.. I think she wants me to come to karate class for our son today

 

A. so i can pay for half of the class

B. so i can pick him up, i have him for the weekend.

 

I'm paying $1100 a month in child/spousal support.. shouldn't something like that come from that money? I'm all for him doing karate, I think its great, but she is going to try and take advantage of me every chance she gets since she knows I still care.

 

thoughts?

[dreamingoftigers]

Ok rhetorical question for people here.. I think she wants me to come to karate class for our son today

 

A. so i can pay for half of the class

B. so i can pick him up, i have him for the weekend.

 

I'm paying $1100 a month in child/spousal support.. shouldn't something like that come from that money? I'm all for him doing karate, I think its great, but she is going to try and take advantage of me every chance she gets since she knows I still care.

 

thoughts?

 

Pay for karate, keep it in mind, make sure to watch for a pattern and keep your boundaries.

 

Don't talk about the two of you, good luck, I don't have time to post up anymore right now but if you mention the Flames-Wild game again, I'll never post here on your thread anymore!!

 

PS: Stupid Wild! Hopefully we do better against Dallas.

[marqueemoon4]

Yeah Iginla could be heading out town.

 

Well, I just spent over an hour with her at our sons first karate class. He had a great time, I didn't say a word about the relationship even though I couldn't stop thinking about it. I stayed upbeat and pleasant and we were both laughing at joking around. I guess she thinks we're going to be friends now. She told me some news about her sister in law being pregnant, and some other things. Last resort technique is all I have, though I have very little faith it will work. She loves to talk about the future in a way we're not going to be together again, and it hurts. I guess I'll get used to it in time. Seeing her sign her name with my last name still bothers me. I have to accept its over and its going to be like this for a long time. I hate it.

Edited January 20, 2011 by marqueemoon4

[dreamingoftigers]

Have I been a total nightmare in her eyes the last few months trying to convince her to give me one more chance? Does she not understand that whether she has the justification or not to do it, how horrible its going to be for our son and I? Why do people get married if at the end of the day everyone just looks out for themselves??

 

If she has come to see you as a source of pain and upset, then yes, it is nightmarish. My husband at points literally became a monster to me. I'd just look at him and see the demon that he became and it really freaked me out. I believe in eternal marriage, so that was really fun for me.

 

It wasn't until I started diving into my own issues that I found some of his humanness again. She isn't going to see it for awhile. The fact that this relationship seems like life and death to you is going to scare her (I feel that way about marriage too and it scare(d) (s) my H.

[marqueemoon4]

I think it feels like life and death to me because even though I shouldn't want her back after how she has treated me the last 6mos, I have my own boundaries. If she follows through with divorce there is NO WAY I will ever consider having any sort of relationship with her ever again. And once I get to that point, I'm pretty good at sticking to it. That would mean our son will never have his real parents together again. This is a major problem for me, I grew up believing VERY STRONGLY that this will be to his detriment. I'm smart enough to know that divorce may fix a few problems, but causes tens of others.

 

Again, I can't make her see these things, and I have no confidence that she will see them herself. I think she was friendly yesterday because I said I'd given up and now her plan can come to fruition without any further interference from me. I'm saddened she can't see everything I bring to the table and how important it is for our son to have both parents in his life on a daily basis, but there is nothing I can do.

[IfiKnewThen]

i am pretty sure she does want to make her life easier and does like the perks of you showing up at karate class, for help finally, a lift. etc. don't know if that makes her the worst person...BUT

 

i really knew how you felt when your said this: I can forgive myself for the big mistakes I made, the two major drama events in May and July, and for a lot of other things. Unfortunately SHE CAN'T. It feels like she is pointing a gun at me, I'm standing there with my arms in the air saying "A, please put the gun down, I don't mean you any harm.. please I need you to trust me" and she won't. She's going to shoot and kill me (divorce me). She is in full DEFENSE mode, and is still angry. I feel like I've been suffering for 7mos and have figured out SO MUCH and I want her to know but its probably too late. Really, alot of the mistakes that were made were because I didn't understand what was going on and my own defense mechanisms took over. And this doesn't even take into consideration any of the mistakes she made, and there were alot. Its much easier just to throw your arms up and say I GIVE UP. Yes, alot of bad things have happened between us, but there has been way more good over the 8yrs. Why do I continue this battle in my mind? Because she is the love of my life and because I want our son the advantage of a healthy family unit.

 

its so horrible when they cant seem to forgive and more importantly SEE and recognize the changes you see and recognize in yourself.

 

this happened to me too. its like you cant even show them what you have learned and how it CAN absolutely benefit them now.

 

then you get caught up with holding back your loving feelings, because you fear they will step on them or feel even threatened by the good in you. you fear they will run for the hills because they dont want you anymore; and if they believe you want them..then you believe that might be a deterrent for them to want to stay with you. on and on it goes till they don't get to see the REAL you who loves them because you live in fear of reactions.

 

then someday you come to regret NOT showing all the love because you start to realize that they are not seeing the real you because you felt you had to hold back the love.

 

i am starting to think this is the best course of action in life: DONT LIVE IN FEAR. BE YOU> SHOW THE LOVE YOU FEEL> if they dont want it. fine. but you will be the better person plus more importantly, they will really have something to miss!!! the last memories will be good ones. you can rebuild your life from the basis of love not fear. you will know you did all you could

till you could do no more. dont ask anything in return. if they are abusive ..thats another story. cut them off. sorry for rambling. i am just so sick of how we all allow them to make us act differently than we feel. how we walk tightropes. as long as youre not a stalker or a harasser...or bothering them all the darn time....when you see them...show them love and kindness.

 

i dont know how to interpret all the things in the bible or even a handful sometimes. i dont always know how to apply it. but if it says treat your enemies with kindness...well God

[IfiKnewThen]

ugh typo.. i am pretty sure she does want to make her life easier and does like the perks of you showing up at karate class, for help finally, a lift.

 

i meant to say: i am pretty sure she does want to make her life easier and does like the perks of you showing up at karate class for FINANCIAL help with class and to get a lift.

[IfiKnewThen]

...well God must know better than us!

 

sorry computer troubles over here.

[marqueemoon4]

ugh typo.. i am pretty sure she does want to make her life easier and does like the perks of you showing up at karate class, for help finally, a lift.

 

i meant to say: i am pretty sure she does want to make her life easier and does like the perks of you showing up at karate class for FINANCIAL help with class and to get a lift.

 

I know what you mean about kindness.. I'd like to do what I feel like doing. She is basically the enemy right now, has acted like I'm invisible for 7mos, has NC'd me completely except about our son, and today I was buying wine and I contemplated buying a bottle of her favorite for her. Luckily, I snapped out of it.

[IfiKnewThen]

well you know youre limits. thats what i think we have to do. try...but maybe give it a time . so not to get too bitter. and as you said to perhaps come to our senses about the "hope" end of it perhaps.

 

my mooto has been try your best. give it your all. then give up when you feel you cant do it anymore and have truly done enough. i know you want your self respect till intact and now grovel to her.

 

but again..kindness is NOOOOO bad reflection on you

[IfiKnewThen]

i know you want your self respect till intact and now grovel to her.

 

yikes...i meant i know you want your self respect STILL intact and NOT to grovel to her.

 

 

i really am so lazy about checking what i type before hitting send.

 

and then i look up reread and wow..even i can hardly understand what i was trying to say.

 

i need people here who can read "ifiknewthen latin" hehe

[hitbyatruck]

Unless your wife is a sociopath, she must have some memories/feelings that are not negative - 8 years together plus a child should ensure this, but she probably feels that the resentment she is holding onto is her ticket out of an unhappy marriage. The resentment is the power and your wife is holding onto it with both hands. If she lets go of it then she loses the power that she needs to move onward with her life. Your wife is not a robot and knows that without the power of this resentment, and the knowledge of your feelings towards her, she is in danger of being sucked back into something she became comfortable with - a marriage that ultimately made her unhappy, even if some of it was by her doing. She will hold out until she is confident that you have let go, or when enough time has passed so that emotions have settled, feelings faded.

 

I am a person rarely says never, but it looks very unlikely your marriage is salvageable. Our situations share many similarities and the desperation and depression involved in such an emotionally challenging stage of your life will have you over-analysing EVERYTHING to do with the marriage - probably right back to the beginning. You are not the victim here although it is easy to feel that way. Divorce/separation is a war of sorts - if not between the parties, then emotionally internally. Nobody wins a war.

 

Time helps, but it doesn't heal alone. With hard work, and proper introspection, you should be able to remove her from your psyche. I sense that you are unable to see yourself from outside without being at least emotionally linked to your wife to some degree. BTDT. It is so common. I did it, as did my partner with me. She was able to break the bond - it had become unhealthy and suffocating for us both. (I admire her for this strength but certainly not the way she went about it).

 

All you can do now is work towards being comfortable as a truly individual & independent person. The bond with your child is for life. It is vital that you become emotionally healthy for his well-being. As long as your wife plays her role well in his life then you have no reason to even think about her. This is tough and takes time - I suspect the more emotionally dependent you are, the longer it takes. I'm not there yet after 10 months.

 

Lastly, just keep telling yourself that you cannot and should not even attempt to control the uncontrollable - especially your wife's emotions & motives. Start with your own. When you feel your life and everything you know and love is falling through your grasp it is natural to try to control what you feel you are losing. Control only what you can, and what you should - your health, (physical & emotional), your career, your finances & your relationship with your son when you are with him.

 

Love can become a drug of dependence. It shouldn't be.

 

Strength.

[IfiKnewThen]

i agree that they hold on to resentment to get thru it and over you.

[marqueemoon4]

Unless your wife is a sociopath, she must have some memories/feelings that are not negative - 8 years together plus a child should ensure this, but she probably feels that the resentment she is holding onto is her ticket out of an unhappy marriage. The resentment is the power and your wife is holding onto it with both hands. If she lets go of it then she loses the power that she needs to move onward with her life. Your wife is not a robot and knows that without the power of this resentment, and the knowledge of your feelings towards her, she is in danger of being sucked back into something she became comfortable with - a marriage that ultimately made her unhappy, even if some of it was by her doing. She will hold out until she is confident that you have let go, or when enough time has passed so that emotions have settled, feelings faded.

 

I am a person rarely says never, but it looks very unlikely your marriage is salvageable. Our situations share many similarities and the desperation and depression involved in such an emotionally challenging stage of your life will have you over-analysing EVERYTHING to do with the marriage - probably right back to the beginning. You are not the victim here although it is easy to feel that way. Divorce/separation is a war of sorts - if not between the parties, then emotionally internally. Nobody wins a war.

 

Time helps, but it doesn't heal alone. With hard work, and proper introspection, you should be able to remove her from your psyche. I sense that you are unable to see yourself from outside without being at least emotionally linked to your wife to some degree. BTDT. It is so common. I did it, as did my partner with me. She was able to break the bond - it had become unhealthy and suffocating for us both. (I admire her for this strength but certainly not the way she went about it).

 

All you can do now is work towards being comfortable as a truly individual & independent person. The bond with your child is for life. It is vital that you become emotionally healthy for his well-being. As long as your wife plays her role well in his life then you have no reason to even think about her. This is tough and takes time - I suspect the more emotionally dependent you are, the longer it takes. I'm not there yet after 10 months.

 

Lastly, just keep telling yourself that you cannot and should not even attempt to control the uncontrollable - especially your wife's emotions & motives. Start with your own. When you feel your life and everything you know and love is falling through your grasp it is natural to try to control what you feel you are losing. Control only what you can, and what you should - your health, (physical & emotional), your career, your finances & your relationship with your son when you are with him.

 

Love can become a drug of dependence. It shouldn't be.

 

Strength.

 

Unfortunately you're probably dead on. It's not salvageable from her perspective. Her feelings for me are gone, and I doubt she'll ever trust me again either. It doesn't matter how much I've changed at this point, her decision was made months ago. Every day I see change in myself for the better, and remember mistakes I made with her. I have it all figured out now, but its too late. I wish she would believe that we can be good for each other again, but its highly unlikely. I'm not worried about my finances, or my relationship with my son.. those things are solid. What I do worry about is how long its going to take to exorcise my feelings for her, they go far deeper than I ever imagined.

[marqueemoon4]

It really is true.. who cares less has all the control. I miss the days when I didn't care either way if she was around. That was well before our son was born.

[worldgonewrong]

I sympathize, man.