StrangeCanine Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Answer this from your religions perspective. Say I join Religion "X", I follow all the edicts/rules/etc correctly but I don't have my heart in it. I am just doing it to reap the rewards of said religion, can someone still be saved in your religions with that kinda mindset? Example: A person that wants to do all manner of wicked things(Orgies, murder, stealing, infidelity, blasphemy, homosexuality, bestiality, violence) does not for the simple sake of salvation. He has not acted on any of these thought but the desires are strong within him, Will he be saved? With salvation are those aspects of him removed? What if he desires the aspect even at the point of salvation does he still suffer the yearning in paradise/heaven/purgatory/place of goodness? Link to post Share on other sites
Feelin Frisky Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 What, there's someone or something that can tap into just you and know your motivations and keep score on you? Doesn't that strike you as sort ego-centric that there's a special prvision for each person running concurrently in over 6 billion people? All this stuff breaks down to nothing in the end but one persons myth verses another. The only true salvation we can all share is salvation in this life, in this reality with us who are alive. Anyone who redeems him or herself in this reality can fail to be welcome if there is another one. No god would kick someone out for being too committed to making this life count. Link to post Share on other sites
rhonian Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 Being a Christian, there is only ONE way to be saved.....repent of your sins, believe that Christ died on a Cross for your sins and accept Him as your personal Saviour. That IS the only way to be saved. That is the only way you will spend eternity in Heaven. You said you "don't have it in your heart" and thats a problem....God knows the heart and can judge the sincerity in your actions/words/prayer when you ask Him to save you. Link to post Share on other sites
aerogurl87 Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Answer this from your religions perspective. Say I join Religion "X", I follow all the edicts/rules/etc correctly but I don't have my heart in it. I am just doing it to reap the rewards of said religion, can someone still be saved in your religions with that kinda mindset? Example: A person that wants to do all manner of wicked things(Orgies, murder, stealing, infidelity, blasphemy, homosexuality, bestiality, violence) does not for the simple sake of salvation. He has not acted on any of these thought but the desires are strong within him, Will he be saved? With salvation are those aspects of him removed? What if he desires the aspect even at the point of salvation does he still suffer the yearning in paradise/heaven/purgatory/place of goodness? To me if you desire to do something that is deemed wicked, but don't act on it, you'll still be saved because of your works. I'm a Christian and the Bible says "faith without works is dead". So if you have faith that God can keep you from doing these things you know he despises, and you don't act on your desires God will see that you're trying and will bless you for your efforts. But in paradise all people will be cleansed of such thoughts and desires because sin will be gone and the route of such things is sin. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted January 1, 2011 Share Posted January 1, 2011 Answer this from your religions perspective. Say I join Religion "X", I follow all the edicts/rules/etc correctly but I don't have my heart in it. I am just doing it to reap the rewards of said religion, can someone still be saved in your religions with that kinda mindset? Yes. Example: A person that wants to do all manner of wicked things(Orgies, murder, stealing, infidelity, blasphemy, homosexuality, bestiality, violence) does not for the simple sake of salvation. He has not acted on any of these thought but the desires are strong within him, Will he be saved? That depends. What does he want to be saved from? Where does he want to be saved, to? With salvation are those aspects of him removed? What if he desires the aspect even at the point of salvation does he still suffer the yearning in paradise/heaven/purgatory/place of goodness? Salvation is not a place. It's a state of being. You don't go anywhere. Salvation is right where you are, right now. Link to post Share on other sites
2010_Sorry Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Say I join Religion "X", I follow all the edicts/rules/etc correctly but I don't have my heart in it. If you don't have your heart in it, are you really following the "rules"? Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Oh sure. A slave can be made to adhere to his master's wishes, even if he's inwardly rebellious... "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still...." You can go along completely with 'company guidelines' even if you're dead-set against them..... Link to post Share on other sites
Surrealist Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 To me if you desire to do something that is deemed wicked, but don't act on it, you'll still be saved because of your works. I'm a Christian and the Bible says "faith without works is dead". So if you have faith that God can keep you from doing these things you know he despises, and you don't act on your desires God will see that you're trying and will bless you for your efforts. But in paradise all people will be cleansed of such thoughts and desires because sin will be gone and the route of such things is sin. I've been confused by this paradox for years quite honestly. I've been a Christian now for just on 20 years and have never worked this out. Yeah faith without works is dead, but it is faith that inspires works, it is faith that saves and NOONE CAN BOAST (Ephesians 2: 8,9). Also Galatians 3:1-4 where it talks about receiving the spirit by faith not works of the law etc. What are the works? Going out on the street preaching? Standing behind a pulpit and speaking the word to the converted? The works may well be as simple as taking care of your own family or some other seemingly trivial, non-spectacular work that God has called one to. Link to post Share on other sites
creighton0123 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 From my religious perspective (I believe and have built upon the teachings of the Buddha), salvation is a foolish notion. In my mind, one does not do good for reward or to avoid punishment - if that's the case then the intentions behind doing good are false. Instead, one does good simply to do good. By that I mean "to do good" is to "avoid intentional or avoidable harm". With that in mind, if I were to do anything that were to cause anyone, myself included, intentional or avoidable harm, I would be bringing upon myself negative energy that may result in a karmic reincarnation in lower forms. I also do not believe in the continuation of self in past or future lives. Instead, while part of you has always been and will always be, you cease to exist and a new form begins once you die. The prospect of a soul, an afterlife, or an eternal place of damnation or pleasure is about as folly as pondering the origins of the universe, essentially pointless in my opinion. The premise of most Western religions is that of unworthiness and greed. These religions teach that humans were created essentially broken, that the cause of all human suffering is greed, and that humans are inherently unworthy. Instead, I propose a new picture: Humans are all essentially worthy and of worth, in fact we are all the same, all one. The cause of suffering is not greed, but desire. The cessation of desire is the key to enlightenment. I don't understand the Muslim/Christian concept of salvation. It takes a very specific set of life circumstances for people to be in a place/time and be open to the idea of Christian salvation. Even among Christians, there is a great deal of conflict surrounding who is "saved". Instead, I recognize merit in the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth who, at his core, was perhaps very close to buddahood. "You didn't believe in my son!" seems a childish and rather petty parameter for something as significant as the promise of eternal salvation/joy - and this is supposedly coming from an all-loving, all-knowing, all-powerful being? It's just silly. Link to post Share on other sites
TaraMaiden Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Wot he sed. Link to post Share on other sites
Floridaman Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I've been confused by this paradox for years quite honestly. I've been a Christian now for just on 20 years and have never worked this out. Yeah faith without works is dead, but it is faith that inspires works, it is faith that saves and NOONE CAN BOAST (Ephesians 2: 8,9). Also Galatians 3:1-4 where it talks about receiving the spirit by faith not works of the law etc. What are the works? Going out on the street preaching? Standing behind a pulpit and speaking the word to the converted? The works may well be as simple as taking care of your own family or some other seemingly trivial, non-spectacular work that God has called one to. Good points. Not everyone is called to be preachers, religious teachers, missionaries, or ones helping the impoverished in Third World countries. Link to post Share on other sites
Disillusioned Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Some people only want to be "saved" and get into Heaven because they envision Heaven as one huge ongoing orgy where all manner of depravities and delinquencies which are bad in this life, are ok in Heaven. Link to post Share on other sites
Floridaman Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Some people only want to be "saved" and get into Heaven because they envision Heaven as one huge ongoing orgy where all manner of depravities and delinquencies which are bad in this life, are ok in Heaven. From what I understand of Scripture, and from those who have "seen a great white light" and had near-death or death situations (when they came back), in heaven, all the things of earth will be unecessary. It's hard to imagine, I know, but things like sexual and emotional fulfillment, companionship, esteem, hunger, appetite, love, affection, achievement, hobbies, etc., won't even enter your mind as heaven is a diff. place where there is no hardship, no death, no crying, no misery.... only happiness. Link to post Share on other sites
Disillusioned Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 It's hard to imagine, I know, but things like sexual and emotional fulfillment, companionship, esteem, hunger, appetite, love, affection, achievement, hobbies, etc., won't even enter your mind as heaven is a diff. place where there is no hardship, no death, no crying, no misery.... only happiness. To a lot of people, depravity = happiness. Link to post Share on other sites
Floridaman Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) To a lot of people, depravity = happiness. I know some enjoy partaking in debauchery, but that's not what many consider real happiness. (I know you're not one of those) The point about heaven is that anything we consider "happy" or great down here won't even be an after thought above... Edited January 9, 2011 by Floridaman Link to post Share on other sites
shadowofman Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 I believe the common Christian idea is that depravities are in the heart of all men, and that repentance in the form of abstinence is the route to salvation. In other words, you can't help wanting to sin because you are inherently evil, but accepting and following the law of God is all he asks of you. Or, you can dream about raping people all day long, but you have to accept the notion that this is wrong and then not do it. Link to post Share on other sites
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