The Past is the Past...

[GolightlyD]

Why should she be regretful, I dont comprehend, it sounds like you want her to be ashamed of anything she did in the past that didnt involve you. Is your ego so fragile?

 

Please read my entire post for the answer to that. I don't want her to feel regretful or ashamed. That was part of the point.

[xxoo]

Golightly, were your views on this subject as strong before your experience with your ex? I can see how a loved one's rape would be a traumatic issue to explore, and could leave some scars. It might help your current gf understand your pov if you explained the personal history to her. Esp if you break up with her over this, I believe you should explain the backstory a bit.

 

I personally view anal sex as degrading to women (I have other issues with it)

 

My problem with this, as a woman, is that I personally feel degraded when a man tells me that something I enjoy physically, consensually, and lovingly is degrading to me. Anal can certainly be degrading--just as oral or even vaginal sex can be degrading. Surely the woman you love is competent enough to know what is degrading to her and what is not, and you can safely assume that any sex she enjoyed was of the "non-degrading" kind

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Golightly, were your views on this subject as strong before your experience with your ex? I can see how a loved one's rape would be a traumatic issue to explore, and could leave some scars. It might help your current gf understand your pov if you explained the personal history to her. Esp if you break up with her over this, I believe you should explain the backstory a bit.

 

 

 

My problem with this, as a woman, is that I personally feel degraded when a man tells me that something I enjoy physically, consensually, and lovingly is degrading to me. Anal can certainly be degrading--just as oral or even vaginal sex can be degrading. Surely the woman you love is competent enough to know what is degrading to her and what is not, and you can safely assume that any sex she enjoyed was of the "non-degrading" kind

 

A very thoughtful and provoking answer.

 

Now where I can agree with the OP is if his gf finds this an important part of her sex life and he does not want to participate in (like oral) a dealbreaker, that he should break-up with her.....

 

I think the OP needs to take a look as to what he wants in a "sexual" relationship.

 

We can all make a list form vanilla sex (i.e. missionary, in the dark, minimal foreplay) to fetish and hardcore (i.e. golden showers as an example)..... If you and your partner disagree at what you want to explore this will create problems going forward.....

[Mad Max]

Dumping someone over anal sex is petty. If she had a promiscuous past, a criminal record, a history of cheating, I'd back you. Dumping someone over anal sex is petty.

[Alma Mobley]

My problem with this, as a woman, is that I personally feel degraded when a man tells me that something I enjoy physically, consensually, and lovingly is degrading to me. Anal can certainly be degrading--just as oral or even vaginal sex can be degrading. Surely the woman you love is competent enough to know what is degrading to her and what is not, and you can safely assume that any sex she enjoyed was of the "non-degrading" kind

 

Thanks for saying this. It's how I feel whenever someone says a particular act is "degrading to women" when it's something I have done in the safe, respectful and loving relationship I have with my husband. Like you say, any sex act can be degrading. It's all about context.

 

And to be more open with my thoughts and feelings, it's not that I think she is a bad person, there is just something about that that conflicts with the idea of "wife" to me and I can't seem to reconcile them.

This sounds a bit like the "madonna-whore complex." I suppose only "dirty" women like or want to try anal sex, not women who are "wife-material."

[Untouchable_Fire]

Really? You're comparing having anal sex to molesting a child?!!!

That's insane. 1 act is done by consenting adults, while the other abuses a child that has no say over the act.

Just the fact that you would equate those 2 acts speaks to how limited your view is.

You said it yourself, you're not the "I'll try anything once" kinda person, she obviously is. That's why you guys should break up, because she'll get bored with your vanilla brand sex soon enough.

As far as not knowing what to tell her as your reason for breaking up. I think you should be honest, why lie to her at the end. She was honest with you, so you at least owe her your honesty.

 

Seriously... it's an analogy of dating acceptability... not magnitude. I can't believe you didnt see that.

 

Long stretch from someone is willing to try something new, and someone who NEEDS to do something new.

 

He has no requirement for blunt honesty. This is the time were you break out the tired old "it's not you... It's me" speech.

 

No, I totally understand what you're saying, but "it was done in the past" is hardly ever used to most people to get over the fact that their significant other molested a child, or raped someone in the past. Most people still don't get over something like that and just say "oh, it was done in the past, I'll get over it" - that's why I didn't see that example as useful.

hehe, whether you think I have credibility or not, that's your business.

I just thought it was a very poor example, and you seem to even agree with that...

Don't you think she's gonna ask you why you think its just not working out?

Why are you so afraid to tell her the truth?

I do realize that breaking up with someone is always awkward, but if she asks you, why can't you just tell her? Do you think it makes YOU look bad or judgmental? Or is it something else?

 

She can ask all day... I would not tell her. Which is good for her because it may give her a complex about it moving forward. If that is something she likes to do... she should not feel bad for it in the future with someone else.

 

My problem with this, as a woman, is that I personally feel degraded when a man tells me that something I enjoy physically, consensually, and lovingly is degrading to me. Anal can certainly be degrading--just as oral or even vaginal sex can be degrading. Surely the woman you love is competent enough to know what is degrading to her and what is not, and you can safely assume that any sex she enjoyed was of the "non-degrading" kind

 

It doesnt matter if you enjoy it or not. How the guy sees it, is how he sees it.

 

If she enjoys being degraded then I'd say she isn't the woman for him.

[xxoo]

It doesnt matter if you enjoy it or not. How the guy sees it, is how he sees it.

 

If she enjoys being degraded then I'd say she isn't the woman for him.

 

The point is, the guy wasn't there to see it (or experience it), so how can he know if it was degrading or not?

 

I wonder if men who feel that anal is inherently degrading feel the same way about kissing and touching that area.....or being kissed and touched in that area. Prostate massage, anyone?

[TigerCub]

Seriously... it's an analogy of dating acceptability... not magnitude. I can't believe you didnt see that..

but its not a proper analogy, because the majority of people don't have child molester on thier list of acceptable, but have anal sex on that list. I can't believe YOU don't see that.

 

btw - the OP even said that it wasn't the best analogy, and then used oral sex as a better example.

 

She can ask all day... I would not tell her. .

I absolutely love how her honesty is being rewarded with cowardice and dishonesty.

 

Which is good for her because it may give her a complex about it moving forward. If that is something she likes to do... she should not feel bad for it in the future with someone else..

Fine, that I can understand, but from reading the posts, it seems that the OP is more concerned about being uncomfortable with saying the real reason and looking like a prude than giving this girl a complex.

[Jonno_S]

Quote: Originally Posted by Untouchable_Fire

She can ask all day... I would not tell her. .

I absolutely love how her honesty is being rewarded with cowardice and dishonesty.

 

But not saying something is not necessarily either of those two, is it? A person can w/hold saying something to avoid being offensive - like not wanting to hurt someone's feelings - but that's not being dishonest, that's being discrete, considerate, etc.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Jonno_S

[denise_xo]

You're too sexually conservative for her (nothing wrong with that). That will lead to problems. Just break up with her. No need to say why, may make her feel bad for doing something that's no big deal.

 

This is the feeling I'm getting, too. I disagree about not saying why, though. If someone broke up with me, I'd want to know why. Sexual incompatibility is a legitimate reason to end a relationship, IMO. Personally, I'd much rather hear that than some kind of silence or evasion of the issue.

 

As to it being degrading, that's really for her to judge. My H had the same issue with oral sex for a long time as the OP has with anal. I was slightly bemused as well as irriated by having him tell me that I should consider the previous oral sex that I had engaged in as 'degrading' and 'shameful'. I think we all need to realise what our limits are in terms of defining other people's realities.

 

However, if the OP doesn't want to have a partner who likes anal, that's fully up to him.

[Eeyore79]

Interestingly not long ago she mentioned how she had a boyfriend who gave a guy a blow-job. She had a hard time accepting that

If you're looking for a heterosexual partner, I can see how someone being gay/bisexual would be a turn-off! I don't see how a heterosexual act that she did with someone of the opposite sex is really in the same league.

[Distant78]

Seriously... it's an analogy of dating acceptability... not magnitude. I can't believe you didnt see that.

 

Long stretch from someone is willing to try something new, and someone who NEEDS to do something new.

 

He has no requirement for blunt honesty. This is the time were you break out the tired old "it's not you... It's me" speech.

 

 

 

She can ask all day... I would not tell her. Which is good for her because it may give her a complex about it moving forward. If that is something she likes to do... she should not feel bad for it in the future with someone else.

 

 

 

It doesnt matter if you enjoy it or not. How the guy sees it, is how he sees it.

 

If she enjoys being degraded then I'd say she isn't the woman for him.

 

Agreed. Don't see why the guy is getting so much flame about him not wanting a woman who got her ass ripped. If this was a woman talking about anal sex she'd get so much support and coddling.

[zengirl]

Personally, I think there's a huge difference between acts that are immoral and hurt others (such as, say molesting a child, or even cheating on your math SAT) and acts that are simply personal choice and may be distasteful to the individual (such as anal sex, or attending monster truck rallies). That's not to say you can't break up over whatever you want, but confusing the two categories is silly to me. Consensual anal sex isn't morally wrong or hurtful to another human being.

 

And I say this as someone who has absolutely no interest in it and finds it kind of gross. That said, my BF has had it. It bothers me not in the slightest. Now, if he went to monster truck rallies. . .

 

I have been getting more serious about a girl I have been dating. We started out very attracted to each other - very much fireworks and magic. But as that love-dream is wearing off, a nagging thought keeps surfacing: She has participated in something that I find kind of repugnant - anal sex. I have thought long about it since I found out and had strong feelings about it before I even met her and I don't think I can get past it, meaning it is a deal killer.

 

I think you can break up with someone for any reason. Dating is not marriage, and you have the right to end it. Do so respectfully, and you've certainly done no wrong.

 

However, it's silly to end it over something like this if it will make you unhappy in the long run---i.e. if you're always ending potentially good relationships over hangups, or if you think ending this over your hangup (of a totally normal sexual act that many people have participated in) will lead to your unhappiness. That's just silly. Why choose to be unhappy and pretend that your values are pushing you down, when anal sex really isn't a right/wrong issue.

 

Of course, if she wants to have anal sex with you, and you're adamant against it. . . and she is against not having it with you, that's a sexual incompatibility that isn't going to be resolved. Obviously, that happens.

 

I'm also not sure that this is the ONLY reason---you mention the 'love drugs' wearing off. Perhaps if you were into her enough, this wouldn't bother you as much? That does happen. Of course, I don't know you or know if that's the case.

[GolightlyD]

Personally, I think there's a huge difference between acts that are immoral and hurt others (such as, say molesting a child, or even cheating on your math SAT) and acts that are simply personal choice and may be distasteful to the individual (such as anal sex, or attending monster truck rallies). That's not to say you can't break up over whatever you want, but confusing the two categories is silly to me. Consensual anal sex isn't morally wrong or hurtful to another human being.

 

Agreed.

 

I think you can break up with someone for any reason. Dating is not marriage, and you have the right to end it. Do so respectfully, and you've certainly done no wrong.

 

However, it's silly to end it over something like this if it will make you unhappy in the long run---i.e. if you're always ending potentially good relationships over hangups, or if you think ending this over your hangup (of a totally normal sexual act that many people have participated in) will lead to your unhappiness. That's just silly. Why choose to be unhappy and pretend that your values are pushing you down, when anal sex really isn't a right/wrong issue.

 

Of course, if she wants to have anal sex with you, and you're adamant against it. . . and she is against not having it with you, that's a sexual incompatibility that isn't going to be resolved. Obviously, that happens.

 

I'm also not sure that this is the ONLY reason---you mention the 'love drugs' wearing off. Perhaps if you were into her enough, this wouldn't bother you as much? That does happen. Of course, I don't know you or know if that's the case.

 

Thank you for your opinions. Understand that this is not just something that I am "deciding" like say, the color of my drapes. And I don't agree that it is a "normal" act. If you look at statistics, it seems to not be the norm. Not by huge margins, but definitely not the norm.

 

This has weighed heavily on me and really is not in the 'decision' part of my brain. I see it as an indicator of a bigger part of who we are. And part of me says that I should not have to agonize over something (or spend hours on the therapy couch) just to date someone. (Funny, my psychologist last year was a homosexual. I have not seen him and would love to hear his two cents - and before you start accusing me of being crazy, it was a work-related thing that resolved pretty well.) It's not a right or wrong thing - not in the moral sense. It's just something that is repugnant to me and even hurts me if I really think about it (which is why I am trying not to). It's the same way that she felt about the BF she had who had given a guy a BJ. She said that changed the way she felt about him. I can see that, frankly.

 

I have tried to think of some other 'deal killer' type things. If she (or anyone) were to tell me they've been in porn, that probably would be.

[GolightlyD]

Agreed. Don't see why the guy is getting so much flame about him not wanting a woman who got her ass ripped. If this was a woman talking about anal sex she'd get so much support and coddling.

 

Thanks. I am not asking or expecting people to agree with me - others have their opinions and they're valued but a kindred spirit is always good too. Part of my problem is that I really don't have any friends I feel comfortable sharing this with for advice, so you guys are it.

[GolightlyD]

The point is, the guy wasn't there to see it (or experience it), so how can he know if it was degrading or not?

 

I wonder if men who feel that anal is inherently degrading feel the same way about kissing and touching that area.....or being kissed and touched in that area. Prostate massage, anyone?

 

True, I was not there. I have seen it in porn, however and it was not appealing. And the few that I have seen were not rape situations - the women were quite attractive and receptive. I will even say that I watched in the hopes that I would maybe see what is so appealing about it, but nope. And all that was well before I met the woman who is the subject of all this. God if she only knew how much talk has been generated regarding her sphincter.

 

To answer your questions: Long ago a female started to stick her finger in my ass while we were in missionary position. I promptly removed it. Would never let a woman kiss/lick there either.

 

And also, I tried a little touching on her (the one this thread is about) to see how I would feel about it and also for her pleasure and I was not crazy about it. I didn't detest it, however, but she enjoyed it. Just wasn't my cup of tea.

 

And further, I have been in relationships where the topic has come up and when it has, all have expressed a disdain for it. I recall feeling a connection with them (as one would feel with any topic, like politics, religion, etc.) so it's good to connect with someone and if this is something that is part of my inner fiber that's not changing - and I am clearly not alone on this - I see this as not a hang up but a legitimate issue for which I am very appreciative that you people helped me explore and understand.

Edited January 23, 2011 by GolightlyD

[GolightlyD]

You said it yourself, you're not the "I'll try anything once" kinda person, she obviously is. That's why you guys should break up, because she'll get bored with your vanilla brand sex soon enough.

 

While I appreciate your two cents, I have to respond to this.

 

First, she isn't "obviously" that type of person. You can't logically draw that conclusion based on the information I have given.

 

Second, you have no idea what my brand of sex is, trust me. And if your statement were correct, then all relationships that don't participate in anal sex will become boring. There are plenty of other things that people do and can do to excite things and keep it interesting.

 

Frankly, one thing that I have found is that women, much more than men, seem to really value the orgasm - the intensity, the number and the frequency. Pretty much all my lovers have praised me for knowing that, understanding that, exploring that and in some instances showing them that and bringing them to places they'd never been. I am a very giving and considerate lover, but have my boundaries. That's all I'll say.

Edited January 23, 2011 by GolightlyD

[zengirl]

Thank you for your opinions. Understand that this is not just something that I am "deciding" like say, the color of my drapes.

 

You are deciding it. It may be more important than that decision, but acting as though it's be thrust upon you and you're some sort of victim of your own opinions is weird to me. You may have kneejerk feelings, but you can decide to keep or change them at any time. I believe it is, in fact, a decision. In fact, the only real issue I see with your attitude about it is you acting like (a) Your viewpoint is natural, as in a standard viewpoint or one that is inherent and unchangeable, and (b) You have nothing to do with the forming of said viewpoint. You can't help your feelings in the moment, maybe, but you totally decide what your views are, how they formed, and what's important to you.

 

And if being with a girl who's never had anal sex is more important to you than this girl is. . . then you should absolutely break up with her. And it doesn't make you a 'bad' person or anything. But it is a choice.

 

And I don't agree that it is a "normal" act. If you look at statistics, it seems to not be the norm. Not by huge margins, but definitely not the norm.

 

Normal as in the most often performed? No, I wouldn't say that, but a lot of people have tried it nowadays. It's not some rare, strange thing that most people haven't heard of --- it's not some extreme fetish, even, to have tried it once. A lot of people have. Personally, it's not something I've a desire to try out, but I definitely don't find it abnormal in terms of, "People actually do that?" like smearing poop on your partner during a sex act or something. There's some weird **** out there, and anal sex isn't quite vanilla, but it also isn't really obscure anymore.

 

This has weighed heavily on me and really is not in the 'decision' part of my brain.

 

I don't know what part of your brain you're referring to. Dumping someone because of their choices is not an automatic reflex, like breathing. Of course, you had to decide it.

 

I see it as an indicator of a bigger part of who we are. And part of me says that I should not have to agonize over something (or spend hours on the therapy couch) just to date someone. (Funny, my psychologist last year was a homosexual. I have not seen him and would love to hear his two cents - and before you start accusing me of being crazy, it was a work-related thing that resolved pretty well.) It's not a right or wrong thing - not in the moral sense. It's just something that is repugnant to me and even hurts me if I really think about it (which is why I am trying not to).

 

I don't disagree that if it is causing you that degree of pain, and you are unwilling to change (not saying you should or shouldn't---but that's the choice), that you should break up with her. Just own it as your choice is all.

[GolightlyD]

You are deciding it. It may be more important than that decision, but acting as though it's be thrust upon you and you're some sort of victim of your own opinions is weird to me. You may have kneejerk feelings, but you can decide to keep or change them at any time. I believe it is, in fact, a decision. In fact, the only real issue I see with your attitude about it is you acting like (a) Your viewpoint is natural, as in a standard viewpoint or one that is inherent and unchangeable, and (b) You have nothing to do with the forming of said viewpoint. You can't help your feelings in the moment, maybe, but you totally decide what your views are, how they formed, and what's important to you.

Well, it's really not a decision and not even knee-jerk. Quite the opposite: When we first talked about it I had known her for about a week or two and while it struck my oddly, it was not huge. In fact at that time that was exactly what I said: I am not going to let that bother me. But as my feelings for her grew (and in considering whether to marry her) it became an issue. That is what I meant and it is not a decision at all. One can't just decide that something is not going to bother one. On the contrary, it was mounting in me as something deep and I posted here to help flesh it out.

 

And if being with a girl who's never had anal sex is more important to you than this girl is. . . then you should absolutely break up with her. And it doesn't make you a 'bad' person or anything. But it is a choice.

 

Actually, that's not the issue. Read one of my earlier posts for more on that. What I realized made it an issue with me is her current view of it.

 

Normal as in the most often performed? No, I wouldn't say that, but a lot of people have tried it nowadays. It's not some rare, strange thing that most people haven't heard of --- it's not some extreme fetish, even, to have tried it once. A lot of people have. Personally, it's not something I've a desire to try out, but I definitely don't find it abnormal in terms of, "People actually do that?" like smearing poop on your partner during a sex act or something. There's some weird **** out there, and anal sex isn't quite vanilla, but it also isn't really obscure anymore.

 

I haven't said or suggested any of that.

 

I don't know what part of your brain you're referring to. Dumping someone because of their choices is not an automatic reflex, like breathing. Of course, you had to decide it.

 

Of course, the decision to break up with someone is just that - hopefully, a rational choice based on a lot of consideration. But again, I did not just decide to let it bother me. It's never been an desirable act with me and it makes no sense for me to start a process of making something acceptable or tolerable - it's where my values lie, obviously.

 

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Edited January 23, 2011 by GolightlyD

[Duckduckgoose]

Are you still with this chick or have you broke it off yet?

[zengirl]

. That is what I meant and it is not a decision at all. One can't just decide that something is not going to bother one.

 

This is where we disagree. Maybe one can't make a snap decision ("Okay, that doesn't bother me anymore!") but certainly we DECIDE what we allow to bother us, shape our choices, etc.

 

Actually, that's not the issue. Read one of my earlier posts for more on that. What I realized made it an issue with me is her current view of it.

 

I read all your posts. I don't understand what you mean by her 'current view.' Is it something she's pressuring you to do?

 

(If her current view is she had it in the past and she's fine with that, I think that's way healthier than thinking she's ashamed of something she chose to do. Just me.)

 

I haven't said or suggested any of that.

 

You have by saying it was not normal. I was explaining the definition/criteria of the version of 'normal' (the most common colloquially, but no, not a statistical norm) I was using.

 

Of course, the decision to break up with someone is just that - hopefully, a rational choice based on a lot of consideration. But again, I did not just decide to let it bother me. It's never been an desirable act with me and it makes no sense for me to start a process of making something acceptable or tolerable - it's where my values lie, obviously.

 

See, I do think we have influence over our preferences and can alter them with time and effort, particularly in these opinion/values. (Whether, say, anal sex would feel good to you might not be alterable, but that the idea of it 'bothers' you is changeable. I'm not saying you NEED to change it, but I am deeply resisting the notion that the view is unalterable and out of your control.)

[GolightlyD]

I read all your posts. I don't understand what you mean by her 'current view.' Is it something she's pressuring you to do?

 

(If her current view is she had it in the past and she's fine with that, I think that's way healthier than thinking she's ashamed of something she chose to do. Just me.)

I agree with your penultimate sentence and that is her current view - she's okay with what she's experienced. I have not told her that I am not (and likely will not) in part because I do not want her to possibly feel bad about her current view. (Incidentally she just expressed a somewhat racist view to me today. I didn't like that either, and she didn't seem too concerned whether I found that, too, unsavory.)

 

She's not pressuring me and has not even broached it with me/us. But in speaking about it she let me know that it was something to be considered and enjoyable - that is what I mean by her current view. A few years ago I was in a relationship with someone who was raped there. I did not have this same unease with her because in part, she was traumatized by it and was not into it (then or ever). The weird thing is that this is the first I have ever had to consider it on this level - virtually every other woman I have dated has had the same opinion/value on this subject (to the extent that it was discussed). With this girl, it came up sort of off-hand in conversation and that's how I learned of her opinion - her present or current view of it. By expressing that it was acceptable, etc., it in a sense ratifies it as part of who she is today, right? Let's say I did something voluntarily in the past but now regret it, I will not speak about it in the same way - I will speak about it with remorse, regret, etc. if I speak about it at all and if someone were to hear me, they would understand that I did not want that event to be associated with me today. And I am sure that some have that view about anal sex. I would if I tried it when I was younger and adventurous. I don't like living with regret and tend to err on the safer side rather than try anything for the experience and evaluate later whether it was the right choice. One can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, so to speak. I've always lived that way.

 

 

 

You have by saying it was not normal. I was explaining the definition/criteria of the version of 'normal' (the most common colloquially, but no, not a statistical norm) I was using.

I was using the word in the technical sense.

 

 

See, I do think we have influence over our preferences and can alter them with time and effort, particularly in these opinion/values. (Whether, say, anal sex would feel good to you might not be alterable, but that the idea of it 'bothers' you is changeable. I'm not saying you NEED to change it, but I am deeply resisting the notion that the view is unalterable and out of your control.)

 

I understand fully that you (and others) are not saying I need to change it and I appreciate that. A comparison might be something like littering, for example. (I know, I know, someone will now say, "What? How can you compare something bad for the environment with a loving, natural act of pleasure???? " - although I suspect that the smell might be similar). I don't litter, don't like it and have a dislike for those who litter. I guess I could change that view, somehow and for some reason, but I don't think at this stage of life I am going to re-train my brain-patterns/beliefs, etc. I am who I am and like my values. If I were dating a litterer, and non-littering were important to me - also I have to make a choice, right? Either change my preference or move on. But I see changing that hard-wiring as much less of a choice, esp. now rather than in my teens or earlier years - I see my views and values as the product of all that preceded this moment. Some based on introspective and consideration, some based on upbringing, etc.

 

Thanks again, you seem thoughtful and your time and thoughts you've shared to evaluate this topic has indeed been helpful.

Edited January 25, 2011 by GolightlyD

[GolightlyD]

Are you still with this chick or have you broke it off yet?

 

Done. And it was the right thing to do. Now that I have thought it through and worked it out with the benefit of you people, it really was a no-brainer. Feels good to have standards.

[Billy_Boy]

Done. And it was the right thing to do. Now that I have thought it through and worked it out with the benefit of you people, it really was a no-brainer. Feels good to have standards.

 

You gotta do what you gotta do to keep yourself sane, but lets not pretend that dumping her over something in her past like anal is about "standards" its about insecurity.

[xxoo]

Feels good to have standards.

 

So you do think less of her, not just that you are incompatible.