I have to wonder about men who bitch on these boards

[EasyHeart]

I wonder why the only ANGRY people in this thread are men?

 

There have been some pretty nasty things said about women in general/on the whole by those ANGRY people. I do see a correlation between being an ANGRY person and gender bashing.

So you want MORE anger?

 

Sheesh!

[GooseChaser]

Getting empathy from women won't make the problem go away. That is up to the individual.

[SteveC80]

Getting empathy from women won't make the problem go away. That is up to the individual.

 

That's not the point women are annoyed by Men lamenting their lack of sucess with women becasue its all about the women and her problems plus the guys complaining are clearly not on the level of looks and status these women want so to them these guys are a nuisance and wasting time that can be used to help these women with their problems

 

Women are thought of as the more caring nurturing gender when its far from the truth

[northern_sky]

That's not the point women are annoyed by Men lamenting their lack of sucess with women becasue its all about the women and her problems plus the guys complaining are clearly not on the level of looks and status these women want so to them these guys are a nuisance and wasting time that can be used to help these women with their problems

 

Women are thought of as the more caring nurturing gender when its far from the truth

 

You mean annoyed by guys lamenting about not being able to get casual sex. That's pretty different.

[Seamless74]

I have to wonder about men who bitch on these boards

 

 

I for one have to wonder about women who post on these boards about their constant emotional problems,dissatisfaction and inability to change their self defeating patterns...

[northern_sky]

I for one have to wonder about women who post on these boards about their constant emotional problems,dissatisfaction and inability to change their self defeating patterns...

 

ooo, ooo, oooo! that stings. you got me there.

[Seamless74]

jus sayin.....

[Woggle]

That's not the point women are annoyed by Men lamenting their lack of sucess with women becasue its all about the women and her problems plus the guys complaining are clearly not on the level of looks and status these women want so to them these guys are a nuisance and wasting time that can be used to help these women with their problems

 

Women are thought of as the more caring nurturing gender when its far from the truth

 

This is very true. This is supposed to be a board where people can get advice and support but whenever men need advice and support it seems that some women have the empathy of a rock. Are only women allowed to seek advice?

[Stockalone]

I feel sorry for Men who cant get women but youre not gonna get sympathy from women

 

For one women are self centered creatures and two no offense but guys here who cant get women arent the desirable Men these women are praying for so to them your just a nuisance using thread space using down their posts of biter compalining

 

That's not the point women are annoyed by Men lamenting their lack of sucess with women becasue its all about the women and her problems plus the guys complaining are clearly not on the level of looks and status these women want so to them these guys are a nuisance and wasting time that can be used to help these women with their problems

 

Women are thought of as the more caring nurturing gender when its far from the truth

 

I think that paints too bleak a picture of the situation on LS. If a guy presents his problem in a respectful way, he can get sound advice from the women of LS. But, everything comes at a price, and so does the advice.

 

I would say the tolerance level for complaining about one's lack of sucess with women is fairly low. Start a thread about it, and there will be plenty of replies that aren't meant to be helpful. But those comments come from both men and women.

 

I would agree with you that most women seem to view this as a nuisance at best. Guys who complain instead of tackling a problem head on (like men are supposed to do), are just not something most women find attractive, so there will often be little sympathy.

 

I think this is one of those "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" issues. I believe that usually it's the lack of success that leads to unhappiness and complaining, but many people seem to think it's the other way around.

 

But even if people agree that the former is possible, we are back to square one, because the "whiner" simply isn't taking his lack of success like a man.

[AD1980]

I think that paints too bleak a picture of the situation on LS. If a guy presents his problem in a respectful way, he can get sound advice from the women of LS. But, everything comes at a price, and so does the advice.

 

I would say the tolerance level for complaining about one's lack of sucess with women is fairly low. Start a thread about it, and there will be plenty of replies that aren't meant to be helpful. But those comments come from both men and women.

 

I would agree with you that most women seem to view this as a nuisance at best. Guys who complain instead of tackling a problem head on (like men are supposed to do), are just not something most women find attractive, so there will often be little sympathy.

 

I think this is one of those "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" issues. I believe that usually it's the lack of success that leads to unhappiness and complaining, but many people seem to think it's the other way around.

 

But even if people agree that the former is possible, we are back to square one, because the "whiner" simply isn't taking his lack of success like a man.

 

 

As a guy whos has no sucess with women why is it that Men are supposed to be unattached uneffected unemtional robots who never question things or are allowed have vulnerable moments?

 

Women can whine and cry about every little problem they have but if a Man even vents a litle about his plight with the opposite sex hes a whiny wimp?

 

I admit some Men here go overboard as do some women but most here are good human beings who are just looking to vent and hear different opinions on things

[KraftDinner]

I'm a little confused about comments being made saying things like "women can find an LTR/casual sex/relationships more easily than men." Assuming we are talking about hetero relationships, aren't women doing these things WITH men??? So aren't they finding these things at the exact same rate?

 

If what is meant by those comments is that women have more of a choice... well, true for some, not true for others. Most women will attest that most (or a lot) of their "suitors" are not options they'd actually consider.

[carhill]

One explanation is that women accept advances from a narrow range of men whom are attractive to themselves and other women and these men are servicing more than one woman. Read the infidelity forum for more insight on the married version of such men

[alphamale]

i don't do any "bitching" here

[carhill]

Pay attention. This is how an alpha male bitches

[zengirl]

Re: the success at the same rate thing

 

Women go on more dates to find that LTR, generally, whereas men are more likely to find a partner willing to be in an LTR, if she's willing to keep dating him. I think that's the idea. In general. Obviously, this is not a one-size-fits-all type thing.

 

But it is more likely that if a woman goes out with you, and continues to go out with you, and sleeps with you, she is looking for a LTR than the average male. Of course, all these are averages. Finding marriage-minded men seems more difficult than finding marriage-minded women, especially if you want to date people the same age. That said, I never have all that much trouble, so don't take this as complaining or even a statement that I think this is necessarily true. Just an observation and potential synopsis.

 

Assuming you are talking strictly about sexual/romantic relationships, I don't understand. Why would I want to connect with a woman -- especially for LTR purposes -- if I didn't want to have sex with her?

 

Well, of course sex is a part of a healthy LTR, but putting it front-and-center as the main issue ("I can't get laid! I wish I had a girlfriend, so I could have regular sex") is kind of gross to me. If a guy just wanted a girlfriend, any desirable girlfriend, so he could have regular sex, I'd never want to date him. Which is not to say I don't want my BF to want regular sex with me, but I don't want that to be the reason he's with me. Do you follow?

 

So, as I mentioned in the post you responded to, it's more about what men focus their frustrations on and how they present it.

 

Women actually have a much easier time finding a relationship then men do because men who actually do want a relationship usually are not very attractive to women. Also look how many women act once they get into a relationship. Some cheat on men with no remorse and develop grass is greener syndrome.

 

I do agree that any man as long as he doesn't have high standards can get laid and once a man gets the ball rolling it is very easy because once a man has women he is more attractive to women.

 

Men cheat on women too. You always talk about cheating like only women do it. It's so odd to me.

 

I think women have to kiss a lot more frogs to find a relationship. I always find it a bit odd when men envy the amount of dates some women go on. I hate early dates. I don't want to go on those dates. But that's the way you find out if someone is awesome. So, I go. But, it's a 'what I don't have' thing. I've never been a guy and certainly never one who was lacking in dating opportunities, so I don't really know how it feels. I have been a girl who has dated and dated and dated to find somebody decent. (It gets easier as I get older and better at spotting them.) And I understand that frustration more keenly, is all.

 

Which is not to say I've no empathy for men who want LTRs and real connection with women and cannot even get a date, so long as they're not being shallow about it (wanting someone you find attractive is not being shallow, so I don't mean that, more a manner of speaking about women) or making it about sex.

[alphamale]

Pay attention. This is how an alpha male bitches

thanks for bringing back those memories

[somedude81]

I think this is one of those "which came first, the chicken or the egg?" issues. I believe that usually it's the lack of success that leads to unhappiness and complaining, but many people seem to think it's the other way around.

That's exactly what it is. Lack of success leads to disappointment and discontent. Reapeated failure just makes everything worse till one is just falling down a pit of despair.

 

I'm a little confused about comments being made saying things like "women can find an LTR/casual sex/relationships more easily than men." Assuming we are talking about hetero relationships, aren't women doing these things WITH men??? So aren't they finding these things at the exact same rate?

 

If what is meant by those comments is that women have more of a choice... well, true for some, not true for others. Most women will attest that most (or a lot) of their "suitors" are not options they'd actually consider.

One would think so, but no.

 

Imgine a room with 20 people in it. Ten women, ten men. All ten of the women get a date. But only 6 of the guys get a date what happened?

 

Four guys end up alone, which means that leaves only 6 guys to date 10 women.

 

What happens is that some men date anywhere between 1 and 3 girls.

 

That's how all girls can find somebody, they just end up sharing the well off guys.

[Disillusioned]

...about how hard it is for them to get laid. Boohoo hoo. (I am female btw.)

 

While women as a whole are less easy than men, there are loads of sluts happy to avail their male counterparts at the local pub on a Saturday night. I live in a city with an girl's college, and you should see how aggressive some of these young ladies get.

 

I know plenty of guys who are totally average and can easily find free sex if they want it on a given night. If a guy is at all attractive, he can have a field day. Online dating is another easy way for guys to fill their nights with passion. My ex is average looking, and he put about two minutes into his OKC profile. The second girl he met in person was begging him for butt sex on their first date.

 

My point is sex is easy to get for most people. It's LTRs with desirables that are more elusive. A lot of people aren't interested in random screws.

 

That's why the Fleshlight was invented (you can look it up). Listen, miss, if you're the average guy, you need that sex like the junkie needs his heroin.

[Woggle]

 

 

Men cheat on women too. You always talk about cheating like only women do it. It's so odd to me.

 

I

 

Men cheat as well but women have this heartlessness and nastiness about it. In the situations I have observed the woman almost enjoys inflicting pain on the man who often only committed the sin of not giving her 24/7 butterflies. Women initiate 75% of divorces and most breakups. They are also much more likely to suffer from grass is greener syndrome. Every man in a committed relationship married or not is playing with a bomb that can explode at any time.

 

I appreciate that you have empathy but many don't and if women want to know why men act like emotionless robots this is why. When we speak what is in our hearts we get slammed and get no empathy whatsoever.

[zengirl]

Men cheat as well but women have this heartlessness and nastiness about it. In the situations I have observed the woman almost enjoys inflicting pain on the man who often only committed the sin of not giving her 24/7 butterflies. Women initiate 75% of divorces and most breakups. They are also much more likely to suffer from grass is greener syndrome. Every man in a committed relationship married or not is playing with a bomb that can explode at any time.

 

I appreciate that you have empathy but many don't and if women want to know why men act like emotionless robots this is why. When we speak what is in our hearts we get slammed and get no empathy whatsoever.

 

I'm sure some men cheat and are nasty about it as well. And I'm sure some women cheat and feel badly about it. (And vice versa in both categories.) Either way, cheating is pretty horrible.

 

The "Women initiate divorces" statistic is likely overblown because it's based on who files the papers. Yes, women are more likely to file paperwork. (BTW, statistics bear out that married men are more likely to cheat than married women. Though who really knows the whole numbers story. But my point is: If a man cheats, and a woman files the papers, did a woman really initiate the divorce.) When they dig deeper, they see a more complex story. Men and women behave badly all over.

 

And they behave wonderfully too. That part should not be overlooked.

 

I'm not sure women are likely to suffer the 'grass is greener' syndrome. I have no scientific data whatsoever, but if I had to do it based on my own observations and understanding of both genders, I'd say that perhaps women are more likely to feel it later, rather than sooner, whereas men are more likely to feel it early on. This is just on average though, and totally undocumented.

 

I also think a lot of times this grass is greener (certainly not all!) comes from women not feeling appreciated and as adored as in the early part of the relationship. Men are more prone to let the relationship auto-pilot and be okay with that, seeking growth in other areas once the relationship is stable. (Again, not generalising everyone this way---just observations of what's 'more likely' due to current social conditioning and biology.) One reason that will never work with a woman -- or rarely -- is oxytocin. Our bodies require it for us to be happy, in much higher levels, and connection and emotional growth with others is how we get it. We need relationships to continuously grow.

 

That's not to say that men haven't nurtured relationships and then been trampled on, or even to blame the man. What I also notice most women are bad at -- and this is mostly socialization -- is saying what they hell they need or want, or even knowing it. How can a man give it to a woman if he doesn't know it and she doesn't know it? A fair enough point, as well.

 

Anyway, I find grass is greener syndrome more complex and interesting, so that's why I said all this. Not a defense of anyone who leaves a marriage because they don't feel butterflies. Just some observations. And all complete, total, way over-generalizations of very complex and varied human behaviors.

[Woggle]

Some men are heartless about it as well but the horror stories I hear from men just send chills up my spine. My father fought some bloody battles in Vietnam and he says it was ten times worse when my mother turned on him and became downright evil and his experience is not an exception.

 

What women think of as auto-pilot men think of as contentment and peace. Instead of always trying to work on the relationship or see where it is going I wish more women would just enjoy the moment and enjoy each other instead of picking every minute detail apart. When a woman starts nagging constantly about relationship issues the man starts to tune it out if it looks like there is no solution in sight and the woman thinks that is a sign of not caring.

[zengirl]

Some men are heartless about it as well but the horror stories I hear from men just send chills up my spine. My father fought some bloody battles in Vietnam and he says it was ten times worse when my mother turned on him and became downright evil and his experience is not an exception.

 

What women think of as auto-pilot men think of as contentment and peace. Instead of always trying to work on the relationship or see where it is going I wish more women would just enjoy the moment and enjoy each other instead of picking every minute detail apart. When a woman starts nagging constantly about relationship issues the man starts to tune it out if it looks like there is no solution in sight and the woman thinks that is a sign of not caring.

 

Well, your first point has been beaten to death, but your second one is interesting, because I don't disagree with you. I just think there's a broader picture.

 

But, as I said, the oxytocin levels in my body need to be maintained. Now, I know this (most people don't know their own chemical needs and make-ups because they aren't as nerdy as me), so I can combat it directly, by working on my relationships in a nurturing way---and by not relying solely on ONE relationship to give me the whole boost, though I do still ask my man not to be on total auto-pilot, which doesn't mean we need to have relationship talks all the time, but just that we need to show appreciation and excitement for each other---and by engaging in other activities that boost it and make me feel part of a community, with engaged relationships.

 

If women are less prone to 'enjoy the moment,' it's likely based on the way they were socialized, as well as potentially low oxytocin levels. It's a really interesting phenomenon. I was just reading a journal article on it today. Anyway, I'm rambling a bit, but I hope I made a halfway decent point.

[Woggle]

The thing though is that you can bond with your man in a way that does not come across as nagging. When a woman wants to talk about the relationship many men feel as if they are going into a police interrogation. Just enjoying each other, laughing, joking and having good memories will get much better results. Coming across as nagging just makes a man shutdown which men do when they feel no end in sight.

[GoodOnPaper]

Well, of course sex is a part of a healthy LTR, but putting it front-and-center as the main issue ("I can't get laid! I wish I had a girlfriend, so I could have regular sex") is kind of gross to me. If a guy just wanted a girlfriend, any desirable girlfriend, so he could have regular sex, I'd never want to date him. Which is not to say I don't want my BF to want regular sex with me, but I don't want that to be the reason he's with me. Do you follow?

 

Not really. When you can't attract women for casual sex, then sex will only happen in LTRs -- or relationships that are progressing toward LTRs. Therefore, for those of us guys who are bad at attraction but good in relationships, sex can be a big part of the motivation to pursue an LTR. I don't see anything wrong with that. If the relationship's not meant to work out, it won't work out regardless of the initial motivation.

[zengirl]

The thing though is that you can bond with your man in a way that does not come across as nagging. When a woman wants to talk about the relationship many men feel as if they are going into a police interrogation. Just enjoying each other, laughing, joking and having good memories will get much better results. Coming across as nagging just makes a man shutdown which men do when they feel no end in sight.

 

I completely agree. Though most (not all, as I'm sure there are some terrible ladies out there, and terrible men too, but let's talk about the general population who teeter somewhere between good and bad) women don't want to be nags. Even the ones who nag!

 

It's just that they lack the communication skills to understand and assert what they need, particularly at the right time or in the right way.

 

My mother can be borderline naggy. (That was certainly my father's excuse for cheating on her all the time! Or, one of them.) She's not a perfect person, but she has a great marriage. My step-father also has his flaws, and even he---a great guy---can be neglectful at times. Not on purpose, and she understands this, just as he understands her need to feel 'heard' even when it sounds like she's nagging. So, she's become way less of a nag in general (with me, too) than she otherwise would be, because he makes her feel heard. I notice a dynamic change when I make the effort to make her feel heard, as well, and our relationship improves.

 

I just don't think most situations are black and white. A lot of time, nagging comes from pain. And feelings of neglect and being dismissed, whether the person intended to be neglectful or dismissive.

 

A couple months ago, my boyfriend and I had a fight when he was dismissive of me. I knew he hadn't meant to hurt me as badly as he had (I was low, in general, at the time, too, and it felt like being kicked when I was down). He just didn't think. But it was still an issue that needed to be worked out. Neither one of us was happy with each other for a day or two, but in the end, talking about it, worked. Hopefully, if couples communicate clearly, it becomes less tense and less frequent to have "relationship talks." It's not like most girls I know think they're fun. I certainly don't.

 

Anyway, I didn't mean to derail the thread! Just your 'grass is greener' comments sparked some interesting thoughts.