zengirl Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Not really. When you can't attract women for casual sex, then sex will only happen in LTRs -- or relationships that are progressing toward LTRs. Therefore, for those of us guys who are bad at attraction but good in relationships, sex can be a big part of the motivation to pursue an LTR. I don't see anything wrong with that. If the relationship's not meant to work out, it won't work out regardless of the initial motivation. And I want a guy who wants a relationship because he values having a lifelong partner who can complement him and broaden his life in more interesting ways than just having sex. Which is not to say that sex isn't fantastic. I rather enjoy it. It's just not a solid foundation for a relationship. From my POV. Link to post Share on other sites
Stockalone Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 As a guy whos has no sucess with women why is it that Men are supposed to be unattached uneffected unemtional robots who never question things or are allowed have vulnerable moments? You'll have to ask the women. I don't know where each of them draws the line between a whiner, an emotionally available man and an unemotional robot. I admit some Men here go overboard as do some women but most here are good human beings who are just looking to vent and hear different opinions on things I think this thread is a good example why venting in the dating forum is not a good idea. That's exactly what it is. Lack of success leads to disappointment and discontent. Reapeated failure just makes everything worse till one is just falling down a pit of despair. Well, that's exactly the kind of thing you should never talk about in real life. At least not if you want to date the woman you are talking to. One would think so, but no. Imgine a room with 20 people in it. Ten women, ten men. All ten of the women get a date. But only 6 of the guys get a date what happened? Four guys end up alone, which means that leaves only 6 guys to date 10 women. What happens is that some men date anywhere between 1 and 3 girls. That's how all girls can find somebody, they just end up sharing the well off guys. It's not like every woman on earth only has to snap her fingers when she wants to go on a date. There are women who have a hard time getting a date with someone they actually want to go out with. And there are women who are hardly ever (maybe never) asked out to begin with. Besides, women are allowed, and in fact, they absolutely should have standards. Think about it, if a woman asks you out, do you go on a date with her no matter what? Link to post Share on other sites
hydorclops Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Zengirl, seriously? You need oxytocin? You need to be happy? And men don't need sex? And they don't deserve sympathy because they don't get sex? Is that really what you think? Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) Zengirl, seriously? You need oxytocin? You need to be happy? And men don't need sex? And they don't deserve sympathy because they don't get sex? Is that really what you think? Men need testosterone levels to fend off depression, just as women need oxytocin. We both need loads of other things too. Magnesium, for example. But you can get that from walnuts. These are based on brain chemistry. Sex is not the only way to release any kind of chemicals. I do believe men perhaps need sexual release to be happy. I also believe they need to bond, communciate, and connect with others to be happy (so do women). But no, no one needs NSA sex, or even sex, in general. Plenty of monks are damn happy, and they don't have sex. At any rate, to be clear, I do have sympathy for men who want to connect with women and can't. Just as I have sympathy for girls who are unlucky in love. But no sympathy if someone puts sex first or complain about how women can have sex easier than men (especially if they use this to justify hypocritically judging a woman's sexuality, which is where I mainly see it brought up on LS). Edited January 7, 2011 by zengirl Link to post Share on other sites
hydorclops Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Yes, people need sex, despite your reasoning. Unless you're going strictly by food, water, shelter, and all that stuff. I'd assert that people need delicious food along with many other things. If millions of people say they need something primal like sex, why would you even bother to have an opinion? You could consider taking our word for it when we men say that desiring sex is an urgent, sometimes painful thing. That qualifies as a need. It's not an entitlement or anything and whining about it is useless, but it is a need. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Think about it, if a woman asks you out, do you go on a date with her no matter what? I don't want to think about it too much, or it might not happen *before* I die There are women who have a hard time getting a date with someone they actually want to go out with. And there are women who are hardly ever (maybe never) asked out to begin with. I've had female friends, girlfriends, a wife, and a host of MW's in my 51 on this rock and I can't think of a one who was ever short-handed of potentials on the dating ledger, even the married ones, even my now exW while we were married. There was always an option waiting to be exercised. I'd like to pronounce exceptions because I hate absolutes. I really do. But, in this case, there are none. As Walter used to say, that's the way it was. Whiners and bitchy guys, stow the care and empathy, *act* like you care and get busy blowing that head off with orgasms and pushing that oxytocin out. Or, you can end up like me, a middle aged telephone therapist and emotional pillow for women. That's the clue train. You can get on it or not. Up to you Link to post Share on other sites
Author northern_sky Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 I don't want to think about it too much, or it might not happen *before* I die I've had female friends, girlfriends, a wife, and a host of MW's in my 51 on this rock and I can't think of a one who was ever short-handed of potentials on the dating ledger, even the married ones, even my now exW while we were married. There was always an option waiting to be exercised. I'd like to pronounce exceptions because I hate absolutes. I really do. But, in this case, there are none. As Walter used to say, that's the way it was. Whiners and bitchy guys, stow the care and empathy, *act* like you care and get busy blowing that head off with orgasms and pushing that oxytocin out. Or, you can end up like me, a middle aged telephone therapist and emotional pillow for women. That's the clue train. You can get on it or not. Up to you Raises hand. Exception here. I'm a woman and I rarely have relationship "options." I'm rarely asked out. Link to post Share on other sites
Stockalone Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I don't want to think about it too much, or it might not happen *before* I die Don't tell me you have also never seen a unicorn. Maybe women asking out men is rarer in the states. It does happen here, though. I've had female friends, girlfriends, a wife, and a host of MW's in my 51 on this rock and I can't think of a one who was ever short-handed of potentials on the dating ledger, even the married ones, even my now exW while we were married. There was always an option waiting to be exercised. I'd like to pronounce exceptions because I hate absolutes. I really do. But, in this case, there are none. As Walter used to say, that's the way it was. Well, there is attention that is welcome, and then there is unwanted attention. The main complaint I have heard was that it's always the wrong guys who show interest in them. But I have also known women who hardly ever were approached. And if they were, the guys were only looking for a quick lay. Some told me that (so I can't be entirely certain if it's true), but I spend time enough around some of them to know that they really didn't get much attention (be it the good or bad kind). Whiners and bitchy guys, stow the care and empathy, *act* like you care and get busy blowing that head off with orgasms and pushing that oxytocin out. Or, you can end up like me, a middle aged telephone therapist and emotional pillow for women. That's the clue train. You can get on it or not. Up to you I still believe it's possible to actually care. But I also think it's a good idea to think long and hard about what emotions to show/share. Link to post Share on other sites
Mad Max Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Maybe women asking out men is rarer in the states. It does happen here, though. Where are you, England? Australia? Here in the states, it depends where. I visited my cousins in Florida where the women to men ratio is like 4:1, no exaggeration. There, women are basically forced to make moves because the number of men compared to women is ridiculously low. I'm in New York and although the women to men ratio isn't as high, women still outnumber men. If you go down south or the midwest, there will be more men because that's where the blue collar jobs are and it's mostly men that work those jobs. I'm from Montréal and there's more women than men, similar to New York. When you have an area where there are plenty of white collar jobs, you will find more women. Places that have blue collar jobs like steel companies, power plants, etc; that's where the men go to. Link to post Share on other sites
zengirl Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Yes, people need sex, despite your reasoning. Unless you're going strictly by food, water, shelter, and all that stuff. I'd assert that people need delicious food along with many other things. If millions of people say they need something primal like sex, why would you even bother to have an opinion? You could consider taking our word for it when we men say that desiring sex is an urgent, sometimes painful thing. That qualifies as a need. It's not an entitlement or anything and whining about it is useless, but it is a need. My point is, there's no biological basis for this need---either chemically to be happy (to put the brain in a state that fends off depression) or on a survival basis. A good deal of the pain is psychological and self-inflicted. As I said, monks don't feel such pain. Many Americans feel they "need" their Smartphones these days. Trust me, they don't. But a good deal of them would feel discomfort or even psychological pain if they go without. I agree that the pain of going without sex might be more, as it goes back farther than the other addiction, but my point is: Most of this pain comes from the same place as other pain---a conflict between what we believe should be/needs to be and what is. The answer isn't changing what is, generally, especially if that's already been tried and failed---it's changing the psychological blocks that are creating pain. In the case of a chemical your body needs, this is more difficult. But, as I said, with awareness, you can develop it in other ways. Link to post Share on other sites
Surrealist Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I haven't had sex for about 5 years, excluding self-stimuli, and I don't think I've died yet. Nup, still breathing and pumping out a heart beat. Link to post Share on other sites
hydorclops Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 My point is, there's no biological basis for this need---either chemically to be happy (to put the brain in a state that fends off depression) or on a survival basis. A good deal of the pain is psychological and self-inflicted. As I said, monks don't feel such pain.Strictly speaking, like you, I'll say that people don't need to be happy. Strictly speaking it's true. I've been disabled for 6 years with major depression. The people in my therapy group and I are all working out how to live with unhappiness. You're right there are lots of techniques and good ideas that help. Check it out, there's more than one type of monk. Many of them purposely eschew happiness. So do people with other goals, like aid workers and other care givers. They are disregarding their own happiness because they think something else is more important. Given all that we certainly don't need sex, Smartphones, or even friends. Link to post Share on other sites
Ross PK Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Raises hand. Exception here. I'm a woman and I rarely have relationship "options." I'm rarely asked out. 'Boo hoo'. Link to post Share on other sites
Author northern_sky Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 Men cheat as well but women have this heartlessness and nastiness about it. In the situations I have observed the woman almost enjoys inflicting pain on the man who often only committed the sin of not giving her 24/7 butterflies. Women initiate 75% of divorces and most breakups. They are also much more likely to suffer from grass is greener syndrome. Every man in a committed relationship married or not is playing with a bomb that can explode at any time. I appreciate that you have empathy but many don't and if women want to know why men act like emotionless robots this is why. When we speak what is in our hearts we get slammed and get no empathy whatsoever. Men cheat more than women. Fact. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I would tend to agree that men cheat more with their genitals. Betray marriages and relationships emotionally and psychologically? Unclear. That potential might run right to the heart of what some men here complain about, even if they're unaware of it. Often, the women they seek out unsuccessfully are using them for validation whilst betraying their primary relationship. I've had enough MW's to know that. They don't get to sex because that's where the woman chooses to draw the line on her 'friendship', but she can tease them with the possibility to get what she wants. In her mind, it isn't cheating, so it isn't cheating, so it isn't cheating, so....well, you get it... I've got a lifetime of anecdotes to share. Yummy. Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I would tend to agree that men cheat more with their genitals. Betray marriages and relationships emotionally and psychologically? Unclear. That potential might run right to the heart of what some men here complain about, even if they're unaware of it. Often, the women they seek out unsuccessfully are using them for validation whilst betraying their primary relationship. I've had enough MW's to know that. They don't get to sex because that's where the woman chooses to draw the line on her 'friendship', but she can tease them with the possibility to get what she wants. In her mind, it isn't cheating, so it isn't cheating, so it isn't cheating, so....well, you get it... I've got a lifetime of anecdotes to share. Yummy. You should open one of those suicide factories like they have in Switzerland. Carhill's Death Factory. "Let Carhill's soothing voice wash over you as he relays 12 depressing anecdotes. Each one helping to promote that firm conviction that you're making the right choice, as you sip from your cup of tangy raspberry flavoured barbiturates." Link to post Share on other sites
Author northern_sky Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 You should open one of those suicide factories like they have in Switzerland. Carhill's Death Factory. "Let Carhill's soothing voice wash over you as he relays 12 depressing anecdotes. Each one helping to promote that firm conviction that you're making the right choice, as you sip from your cup of tangy raspberry flavoured barbiturates." Yes! I love you, Carhill, but sometimes you kinda creep me out with your smiling bitterness. Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) I got a mortgage to pay; let's get started! See, with acceptance, life experience, no matter its content, can be a neutral and educational journey. That was the gift of learning a different path in MC. I can choose how to view the disasters of the past. I could bitch consistently about them or, alternatively, learn from them. I've learned the paths of the past are unhealthy so I now avoid them. This may lead to a solitary path in the future. That's OK. The bitchers and whiners haven't seen that light yet, IMO. They're fighting the fight. The fight to be right. Me, I just want to live and die with a smile on my face. They (a general they) can have their 'right'. I'm happy with that. If you want an honest outside assessment of my 'smiling bitterness', just contact the author of this thread. She knows me in real life and can give you an independent assessment and, trust me, she's brutally honest. Edited January 7, 2011 by carhill Link to post Share on other sites
hydorclops Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 (edited) See, with acceptance, life experience, no matter its content, can be a neutral and educational journey. That was the gift of learning a different path in MC. I can choose how to view the disasters of the past. I could bitch consistently about them or, alternatively, learn from them. I've learned the paths of the past are unhealthy so I now avoid them. This may lead to a solitary path in the future. That's OK. The bitchers and whiners haven't seen that light yet, IMO. They're fighting the fight. The fight to be right. Me, I just want to live and die with a smile on my face. They (a general they) can have their 'right'. I'm happy with that.This is what a monk might say. Except for the happy part Edited January 7, 2011 by hydorclops Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Funny, I don't feel monkey at all. If you've reached middle age and experienced a few life crises, you may find other aspects of life to take on more significant meaning than dumping a load in a NSA vagina. Or maybe not. For me, yep. YMMV. Link to post Share on other sites
Engadget Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Men cheat more than women. Fact. Bull****. Come the hell on. Link to post Share on other sites
hydorclops Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 My monk comment was a joke based on my exchanges with Zengirl in this thread. Seriously though, I'm 51, was married for 12 years, been divorced for 10 and celibate for 8. Boohoo. Link to post Share on other sites
TheBigQuestion Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Bull****. Come the hell on. To be fair, quantifying any of this stuff is VERY difficult. Link to post Share on other sites
Engadget Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 To be fair, quantifying any of this stuff is VERY difficult. Which is why making a statement like he did is insane. Link to post Share on other sites
hydorclops Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Even if by the numbers, women cheated more than men, it doesn't mean anything necessarily. How to put it? Hmm. How about this analogy: Just because no one wants to bribe you does not mean you aren't venal. Link to post Share on other sites
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