I have to wonder about men who bitch on these boards

[EasyHeart]

Are there really a lot of men on these boards complaining about not getting laid? I've seen men complain about not getting dates, complain about not knowing how to ask out women, complain that women like creepy guys more than nice guys, complain that women string them along, etc., but I don't recall seeing any (and certainly not a lot) of men complain that they have some sort of right to unlimited NSA sex.

 

We have a few trolls and teenagers who say stupid things (like all women are whores who are only good for cooking dinner and walking three paces behind them) but I assume these posters are either just being dicks on purpose or they're 20-something dumbasses who are clueless about reality (as pretty much everyone is at that age). You really shouldn't let those people drive the board.

[SilverLining]

I guess, to me, it'd be like me sitting around complaining that strange men weren't handing me $100 bills on the street just for being an awesome gal. If I made a thread, ranting about that, men would call me an entitled princess. And they'd be right.

 

I guess that's kind of how I feel about NSA sex. Nobody needs it. Nobody deserves it. It's maybe a bonus to some people, but unless the other person is into the very same thing and the person and those situations collide, it just seems strange to get so worked up about it.

 

I separate this from men who actually want intimate relationships but have trouble with women in general. That, I can be sympathetic towards.

 

 

Well Zen, maybe they should, since you do seem to be pretty awesome.

 

I agree with you in that NSA sex is a bonus. However, I do feel that the men who complain about such things have a right to complain, as the OP had a right to complain about the men. I might be irritated, but I can choose not to read the threads. I get the OP's frustration, but I could see a similar situation in a certain thread about preferring foreign women over American women, where the men were calling American women bitchy, spoiled, and fat. It held true for that particular OP and it sure made a lot of women angry (mostly because of the wording). I can see where the wording of this post could make men angry and I don't fault them for it.

[northern_sky]

OP, could you accept threads like the ones you referenced, as well as this thread, being appropriately posted in the Personal Rants and Confessions forum? Perhaps that delineation between asking for dating advice (including advice on how to 'get laid') in this (dating) forum and complaining about lack of success in the other forum would be more appropriate and healthy.

 

If I were a forum browser instead of a new thread searcher, I could see getting annoyed with 'bitch' threads cluttering up the dating forum, so can empathize. Still, I did gain some good perspective from this thread and it has been helpful. Thanks.

 

Yeah, that would have been a better place for this thread in hindsight.

 

I am glad you got something positive out of the thread.

 

To people who are still offended: I've apologized several times for being tactless in my wording. That said, I maintain that there is nothing whatsoever offensive about the CONTENT of what I was saying.

[hydorclops]

I guess, to me, it'd be like me sitting around complaining that strange men weren't handing me $100 bills on the street just for being an awesome gal. If I made a thread, ranting about that, men would call me an entitled princess. And they'd be right.

 

I guess that's kind of how I feel about NSA sex. Nobody needs it. Nobody deserves it. It's maybe a bonus to some people, but unless the other person is into the very same thing and the person and those situations collide, it just seems strange to get so worked up about it.

 

I separate this from men who actually want intimate relationships but have trouble with women in general. That, I can be sympathetic towards.

OP may have been thinking about some character that feels entitled to sex but she bashed all men that have problems with women. She may have been thinking about the men that complain, but she bashed men who have problems, no matter what they may or may not post here.

 

Also men who have sex problems may very well see women as people. Childhood sex abuse survivors, just one example, may have difficulty being seductive under any circumstances.

 

In fact not seeing women as people may explain the so-called success that some men have. They don't care what women think and are not bothered by rejection. That's different than a man who is worried how women feel when he talks to them.

 

Also there are plenty of men desiring sexual relationships that don't blame anyone but themselves. OP cheerfully bashed them along with the complainers.

 

Finally there is the irony of the Queen, King, Prince, and Supreme Master of complaining, NS, complaining that she finds complaining annoying.

[zengirl]

Well Zen, maybe they should, since you do seem to be pretty awesome.

 

I agree with you in that NSA sex is a bonus. However, I do feel that the men who complain about such things have a right to complain, as the OP had a right to complain about the men. I might be irritated, but I can choose not to read the threads. I get the OP's frustration, but I could see a similar situation in a certain thread about preferring foreign women over American women, where the men were calling American women bitchy, spoiled, and fat. It held true for that particular OP and it sure made a lot of women angry (mostly because of the wording). I can see where the wording of this post could make men angry and I don't fault them for it.

 

Oh, sure, people have a right, as in it shouldn't be made illegal or anything. But I find it distasteful. People have a right to complain about just about anything, I suppose.

 

As far as the OP's wording, if people separate that from her point, and are upset by her wording. . . well, okay, then. But the point of: What's with all these dudes, who are angry they can't get laid anyway (and while I don't see that as a topic, it sure does come up an awful lot when discussing sexuality, particularly female sexuality, about how jealous some men are that women can get laid all they want, so we shouldn't)? I think that's kind of interesting.

 

OP may have been thinking about some character that feels entitled to sex but she bashed all men that have problems with women. She may have been thinking about the men that complain, but she bashed men who have problems, no matter what they may or may not post here.

 

Also men who have sex problems may very well see women as people. Childhood sex abuse survivors, just one example, may have difficulty being seductive under any circumstances.

 

In fact not seeing women as people may explain the so-called success that some men have. They don't care what women think and are not bothered by rejection. That's different than a man who is worried how women feel when he talks to them.

 

Also there are plenty of men desiring sexual relationships that don't blame anyone but themselves. OP cheerfully bashed them along with the complainers.

 

Finally there is the irony of the Queen, King, Prince, and Supreme Master of complaining, NS, complaining that she finds complaining annoying.

 

Staying away from most of this, because I'm not going to get into the bash the OP fest here, I don't think she did call out all men who have trouble with women. She spoke specifically of sex. She never said, "Man, what's with all these men upset that they can't talk to women/find a girlfriend/connect to women/etc?"

 

Wanting to connect to women because you desire sex isn't the same as wanting to connect to women. It's wanting sex. That would be my point to the difference.

 

As far as the non-complainers, I don't know that she addressed them (she mentioned the guys who "bitch"), but I can get why they'd feel upset. I'm sure that there are men (and women!) who are frustrated with their inability to connect, and reading about how "easy" it is for any group. . . well, that makes it more frustrating. I don't think it seemed to be her goal to address those people, though.

[somedude81]

I think it's hard for people of both genders to meet someone they can have a healthy, forever marriage with, and holding out for that (or no marriage, being better than a bad/failed one), is not a sign of being a "loser." Now, whining about it like it's someone else's "fault" or blaming the opposite gender for it is pretty lame, I'd grant you that.

I agree with you, it's hard for both genders to get a good LTR. But, women can have more chances to get it right.

 

The person that dates a lot of people is obviously going to have a better chance of finding the right one, than somebody who rarely dates.

 

I'm not saying that somebody is at fault, just that they have it easier.

 

A lot of it is the way some of the bitching goes. Now, if someone posts that they feel like they cannot connect with women (understanding that sex is a part of that, as you mentioned in this post), I'm going to be sympathetic. If they post they cannot get laid, not so much, because I think valuing that---sex as something in and of itself--- is a big part of the issue with their troubles with women. Unless they have something on the list I mentioned, a guy probably won't be able to get NSA.

All men want sex, and as I said previously, sex is just a piece of the pie. Odds are that a man who isn't getting sex, is also not getting intimacy or companionship. But he may believe that sex is the most important thing and that's what he focuses on. Though he still wants the connection.

 

Also, my list wasn't meant to say it would be "easy" to get it, as in girls are throwing themselves at his feet, just not difficult. I also agree with the posters who said major psychological barriers could impede as well, but I don't agree with complaining instead of working through said barriers (in general -- not just for sex).

There is a huge gap between easy and not difficult. That's still meaningless for me, since I've been trying to have a relationship for over ten years, with no success.

 

The psychological barriers are the main issue. When I look at myself, I can't think of any reason why I've had so much trouble. But the issue is all mental. Physically I know I'm good enough for many women, but they way I act just doesn't attract them, even if I can make the occasional female friend.

 

 

 

I think it's an interesting observation that men without female friends are more likely to have trouble with women.

------

Perhaps the guys that women are friends with (the ones whose love lives we actually see) don't have the same trouble.

I combined two of your posts since you made a good point.

 

I believe that in order for a man to do good with women, he needs to be able to form bonds with them. If a man cannot connect with women to have female friends, then he is going to have an issue connecting with somebody on a level where she starts to like him.

 

The next point is about, "the one whose love lives we actually see." In order to see and notice somebodies love life, you have to actually care about them.

 

I've had several female "friends" over the years. But I know that very few, if any of them actually cared about me enough to know that I was single. Going back to my previous point, I wasn't able to form a strong enough bond with them, to where they actually thought of me.

 

So when girls notice that their guy friends have no problem finding women, it's because those men have enough social skills and emotional intelligence to form a close enough bond with a woman where she actually thinks about him.

 

You prove my point right here.

 

I suppose I agree with this, but I also don't know men going without sex for long periods of time (in excess of, say, 3 months).

I'm not saying it's necessarily true (I've no idea), but it is interesting, given that many people who argue against opposite sex friends here think sex impedes everything. Is that chicken or egg? Sex is difficult for them, so they see every woman (if it's a man) as a sex object, or they see women as sex objects (and don't have hotness or charisma or anything extra to offer in compensation for this attitude), so sex is difficult for them?

My view on opposite sex friendships is complicated. My issue is that I desperately want to be in a relationship, so I end up falling for whatever girl I'm friends with. Of course if she doesn't return my feelings, the friendship is obviously doomed.

 

Since I'm looking for a girlfriend, I prefer to go the friends first route. Meaning I want to get to know her really well and see what interests we have in common before we start dating and getting physical. I want a girlfriend, whose also my best friend.

The problem for frustrated men is that they haven't developed the maturity with women that will help them attract women. Being an attractive man isn't as simple as looking good; a man must develop his outward personality and sharpen his interactions with and reactions to women. This takes practice, trial and error, and eventually, success. Once a man develops that maturity, he realizes that it doesn't matter so much whether he gets laid with X or Y girl because he can always try again. It's men who pin way too much investment on outcome (read: lays) who always come up short and, ultimately, angry and bitter.

I agree with you.

 

It's not that they can never get laid, either. Often it's because they had some early success, usually with one girl who was a girlfriend or even a wife if they got married too young. People put a lot of stock in relationships as a way of reaching some level of emotional maturity, but I personally believe that LTRs in your early 20s can stunt a man's growth. It's better for him to be out in the field, interacting with different women, getting rejected, finding his path in life, and developing a sense of purpose that goes beyond women and relationships.

I disagree with you here. Early success is necessary to start developing confidence and self-esteem as well as a thousand other benefits that come from being/having a relationship with a woman.

 

A man whose had zero success with women, simply does not grow. So while I'm 29, there are 18 year old dudes who know how to handle girls better than I do.

 

News flash to frustrated men: Women are not programmed to trick you, destroy you, humiliate you, or reject you. They happen to be sophisticated creatures who, like you, have certain biological directives. Your job is to be a man and push the right buttons to foster attraction. Not every woman will fall into your lap. So what? But if you work and learn and be your own man, you will find that many will, if you treat them right. If there is one thing I know, it's that the less you worry about your success with women, the more success you will have.

Eh, some women do use men because they know they can. It has happened to me.

 

Heh, my job is to push the right buttons to foster attraction, so how do I learn what buttons to push?

[quote=SilverLining;3181724which is why guys have an easier time finding a relationship and women have an easier time finding casual sex.

LOLwut? Men have an easier time finding a relationship? What planet do you live on?

 

Women have a much easier time finding both.

[TouchedByViolet]

Are there really a lot of men on these boards complaining about not getting laid? I've seen men complain about not getting dates, complain about not knowing how to ask out women, complain that women like creepy guys more than nice guys, complain that women string them along, etc., but I don't recall seeing any (and certainly not a lot) of men complain that they have some sort of right to unlimited NSA sex.

 

We have a few trolls and teenagers who say stupid things (like all women are whores who are only good for cooking dinner and walking three paces behind them) but I assume these posters are either just being dicks on purpose or they're 20-something dumbasses who are clueless about reality (as pretty much everyone is at that age). You really shouldn't let those people drive the board.

 

Totally agree. It is not a good idea to let the outliered extremes speak for the average guy. In my experience most guys who can't get sex, can't get into a relationship either which is what they really want.

 

I have never heard a guy friend of mine complain about not getting into a NSA arrangement, but many of my friends have complained about wanting a girl friend. The sex is part of it yes, but not the core issue.

[Feelin Frisky]

...Some men don't do well with women. Some of them are OK people, some are asshats, some complain, some don't complain...

 

The one I had hoped to add to your list is that some guys just don't encounter the bounty of women the OP asserted that is there for everyone. Not everyone has the same experience. Circumstances can just play out to an unsuspecting man that there are limited available women in his actual day-to-day routine.

 

He may think this is how it just IS. There's no reason to think that his life has been an exception and every other guy is balls deep in snatch at his beck and call.

 

My life was "deprived" that way for a long time. And by the time I found out that there is a bounty of free-wheeling gash out there, I had already shacked up with someone for 5 years and was almost 31 when we broke up. It gets a little weird then to be cruising college towns for "girls gone wild" as you are seen as an older guy if not a "weirdo".

 

I don't like having it implied that because I didn't get laid regularly by masses of different girls for the period of my late teens and early 20s that I "couldn't"--that assertion comes from the assumption that girls were just as plentiful and freely sexual as the OP painted. It was not MY FACT. I had to work with what I had.

 

And during that period I worked and worked hard with predominantly people of color in downtown Manhattan. That's a whole different reality than one would have if they lived in say, Harvard Square in Boston and had the fortune to go to college there for four years without working and commuting like I did. If I had lived that reality and girls were all that plentiful and into testing their sexuality out I know I would have been a big achiever because I am what is considered hansom--taller than most guys but not too tall, symmetrical with blue eyes amply-spaced and dimples. I was just one of those dummies lulled into believing that his experience of not that many girls (especially of the same race (forgive me)) throwing themselves at guys is just how it is. I did eventually "get out more" tyvm.

[zengirl]

I agree with you, it's hard for both genders to get a good LTR. But, women can have more chances to get it right.

 

The person that dates a lot of people is obviously going to have a better chance of finding the right one, than somebody who rarely dates.

 

I'm not saying that somebody is at fault, just that they have it easier.

 

I think it's easier for the average woman to find a LTR than someone, like you, who, admittedly, has struggled. I don't believe it's harder for the average woman than the average man.

[SilverLining]

See now it has been my experience that men have it easier when finding a LTR than women, although I could be completely wrong about that in the grander scheme of things. And possibly I should modify that sentence to say that I think it's only true for young people. In my experience, more women seem to want the LTR and the men want to have fun and date around, which is fine. But when a man wants a LTR with a woman, there are many, many women who are longing for that very thing. Granted, it may take some time to find a compatible woman and everyone experiences something different. But it seems to me that a woman looking for a LTR needs to bypass a lot of men who are looking to only casually date, especially at a young age.

 

And of course there are men who really want a LTR and women who want to just date casually but in my experience they've been the minority. I also think that location seems to make a difference - in my hometown in the country, people got married quickly and young. In the city here, no one is getting married and almost every one of my male friends spent YEARS casually dating, blowing off great women, because they weren't ready for anything more. When they men became involved in LTRs it was because they decided they were ready, and BOOM...it happened very, very quickly.

[SilverLining]

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that women might have better chances at getting dates and finding men willing to be intimate with them. But just because you get a lot of dates doesn't mean that the men who ask you are looking for a relationship, long-term or not. But for men, the majority of women they set up dates with are probably looking for a LTR, so the pool of possibilities is larger for them.

[GoodOnPaper]

Wanting to connect to women because you desire sex isn't the same as wanting to connect to women. It's wanting sex. That would be my point to the difference.

 

Assuming you are talking strictly about sexual/romantic relationships, I don't understand. Why would I want to connect with a woman -- especially for LTR purposes -- if I didn't want to have sex with her?

[carhill]

In a prior post, I alluded to real life friends who wouldn't touch LS with a ten foot pole. The basic and simple reason for that is that they don't *care* about reflecting upon and/or discussing interpersonal relationship issues. Perhaps that is instructive, and in line with a previous signature line of mine which read 'care less and have better balance'.

 

It also, by the tone of this thread, appears to be in line with what women generally find to be attractive. Good information. Care less, perhaps just enough less to not 'bitch', as bitching does take some care.

 

I remember going through a 'bitching' period in my thirties and finally saying f*ck it, I'm looking elsewhere for romance, and I did. The key was saying f*ck it, caring less and taking positive action. Though not perfect, things did get far more positive after that point. One datapoint.

[northern_sky]

In a prior post, I alluded to real life friends who wouldn't touch LS with a ten foot pole. The basic and simple reason for that is that they don't *care* about reflecting upon and/or discussing interpersonal relationship issues. Perhaps that is instructive, and in line with a previous signature line of mine which read 'care less and have better balance'.

 

It also, by the tone of this thread, appears to be in line with what women generally find to be attractive. Good information. Care less, perhaps just enough less to not 'bitch', as bitching does take some care.

 

I remember going through a 'bitching' period in my thirties and finally saying f*ck it, I'm looking elsewhere for romance, and I did. The key was saying f*ck it, caring less and taking positive action. Though not perfect, things did get far more positive after that point. One datapoint.

 

This is very true. I don't mean to bash male LSers, but the guys I've been interested in irl would never step foot on this site...because like you said they aren't interested in discussing interpersonal relationships ad nauseum. Of course I am, so I can't fault the guys who come here for also being interested in the subject matter. But I do think there is something attractive to most women about that couldn't care attitude.

[hydorclops]

This is very true. I don't mean to bash male LSers, but the guys I've been interested in irl would never step foot on this site...because like you said they aren't interested in discussing interpersonal relationships ad nauseum. Of course I am, so I can't fault the guys who come here for also being interested in the subject matter. But I do think there is something attractive to most women about that couldn't care attitude.

 

I actually believe this now. Partly thanks to Zengirl, I don't think you were trolling or trying to hurt feelings like I did at first. Sorry about my snide comments.

[northern_sky]

I actually believe this now. Partly thanks to Zengirl, I don't think you were trolling or trying to hurt feelings like I did at first. Sorry about my snide comments.

 

Thanks, I appreciate that.

[somedude81]

Are there really a lot of men on these boards complaining about not getting laid? I've seen men complain about not getting dates, complain about not knowing how to ask out women, complain that women like creepy guys more than nice guys, complain that women string them along, etc., but I don't recall seeing any (and certainly not a lot) of men complain that they have some sort of right to unlimited NSA sex.

Exactly.

 

Where are the men complaining about not getting NSA sex?

 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that women might have better chances at getting dates and finding men willing to be intimate with them. But just because you get a lot of dates doesn't mean that the men who ask you are looking for a relationship, long-term or not. But for men, the majority of women they set up dates with are probably looking for a LTR, so the pool of possibilities is larger for them.

Eh, it's not accurate to say that majority of women are looking for LTR's and that the majority of men are looking to casually date. In my expereince, the girls have also been interested in casually dating and have actually told me they didn't want anything serious.

 

Also, the sheer fact that women can go on more dates then men, means that they will meet more people who want the same things they do.

[TouchedByViolet]

In a prior post, I alluded to real life friends who wouldn't touch LS with a ten foot pole. The basic and simple reason for that is that they don't *care* about reflecting upon and/or discussing interpersonal relationship issues. Perhaps that is instructive, and in line with a previous signature line of mine which read 'care less and have better balance'.

 

It also, by the tone of this thread, appears to be in line with what women generally find to be attractive. Good information. Care less, perhaps just enough less to not 'bitch', as bitching does take some care.

 

I remember going through a 'bitching' period in my thirties and finally saying f*ck it, I'm looking elsewhere for romance, and I did. The key was saying f*ck it, caring less and taking positive action. Though not perfect, things did get far more positive after that point. One datapoint.

 

Yes and no. I see the opposite cause/effect relationship because men who are successful with women enter a state of caring less because they have what they want.

 

When a man continually fails to become successful with women he will naturally take a look at himself to fix what is wrong.

 

After breaking up with my gf (a few years now) I spent about a year carelessly looking for a new girl friend. I had absolutely no success. Only when I put in effort and began making conscious improvements to myself and trying to learn a little about flirting did I start getting dates and some minor success, still no relationship.

 

I think guys who get women naturally without trying sell the theory you are talking about. Yes, if you can get something without putting much effort then why ever worry about it or put in any effort to begin with.

[SilverLining]

 

Eh, it's not accurate to say that majority of women are looking for LTR's and that the majority of men are looking to casually date. In my expereince, the girls have also been interested in casually dating and have actually told me they didn't want anything serious.

 

Also, the sheer fact that women can go on more dates then men, means that they will meet more people who want the same things they do.

 

 

Hmm. I do see your point. Well, I can only state my own experience and of course that's subjective.

[Woggle]

Women actually have a much easier time finding a relationship then men do because men who actually do want a relationship usually are not very attractive to women. Also look how many women act once they get into a relationship. Some cheat on men with no remorse and develop grass is greener syndrome.

 

I do agree that any man as long as he doesn't have high standards can get laid and once a man gets the ball rolling it is very easy because once a man has women he is more attractive to women.

[Surrealist]

I have to clarify that I wasn't serious about my earlier comment about women and marriage, I was just using it as part of an argument, an irrational argument at that. Anyway OP has appologised so I'm not meaning to restart that debate. In my view it is far better to hold off marrying until one was at least 30. Some people don't marry until even later.

[shayan]

I've had quite a couple oppurtunities to just have random sex and being a guy I've always declined. I don't see the point in risking the chance of getting an std for 30 minutes of pleasure. I only do it with people I'm actually commited to.

 

I have made out and done things with girls I just met but the risk of transmission is really low in those cases so I'm more laxed on my standards.

[SteveC80]

I feel sorry for Men who cant get women but youre not gonna get sympathy from women

 

For one women are self centered creatures and two no offense but guys here who cant get women arent the desirable Men these women are praying for so to them your just a nuisance using thread space using down their posts of biter compalining

[Mad Max]

I agree with Steve. The notion that women are empathetic is a crock of sh*t. Women and men are the same in that respect. Most humans are not empathetic. On the female side, I see posts all the time that bring these types of men down. They often tell them to "stop complaining", "the past is the past", etc. Doesn't sound too empathetic to me.

[Star Gazer]

I wonder why the only ANGRY people in this thread are men?

 

There have been some pretty nasty things said about women in general/on the whole by those ANGRY people. I do see a correlation between being an ANGRY person and gender bashing.