"Open Marriage?"

[sxyNYCcpl]

What? You've never actually gotten married?

 

Do you lack reading comprehension skills? There is a difference between not having a public ceremony and not being married.

[carhill]

Yeah, my exW and I got married on a beach with a chaplain officiating with just a few family members. No public ceremony. We did procure and sign a marriage license, and a lawsuit was required to dissolve it.

[Billy_Boy]

Open Marriages are a joke, IMO... tbh the ONLY time I have ever seen one work, was with gay male couples. And even then not for long.

 

When it comes to being a man with a woman etc, I think things are just different. I could never accept another man touching my girl, hell I dont even want her dancing with other guys. When I commit my heart to someone, I admit I can get a little intense with the monogamy but, thats only because I put so much investment into things emotionally like that. If I am putting my heart, my feelings, in essence my soul and future into something, I expect the same level of commitment in return, and the type of guy I am... dunno when I do something I do it 100% I dont look at other women, I dont talk to female friends, I dont return flirtations, I spend my time thinking about my relationship, how I can be better, what I can do that would melt her, send flowers to her office, plan a weekend trip for just us etc... thats what I do, in life I learn things to perfection, my father and brothers used to call me "obsessive" but I am just into getting things done properly and effectively.

 

So when I decide to actually put my feelings into someone and allow them that ounce of control over me like that, I go for broke and go 100% monogamy, so I suppose I have a hard time and I struggle with understanding how people can "**** up" and cheat on the person they supposedly love. And I don't understand how any man or woman could stand by and not care that their SO is having sex with someone else, such an intimate act. If I couldnt satisfy a woman I would probably just leave her, not because I want to sound like I am some ultra stud or anything, but logically speaking, its a fundamental mismatch, just let go... but I dunno, I guess I can concede that not everyone feels the same way I do. Of course... which negates the entire point of me saying any of this... hmm im rambling, hi Im Billy!.

[JustJoe]

NLS, common-law marriages are legal marriages after a certain amount of time. Whether or not CPL had a ceremony is irrelevant to the OP's initial question.

[carhill]

Which states allow common law marriage?

 

These are the only states that allow couples to create a common law marriage:

Alabama

Colorado

District of Columbia

Georgia (if created before 1/1/97)

Idaho (if created before 1/1/96)

Iowa

Kansas

Montana

New Hampshire (for inheritance purposes only)

Ohio (if created before 10/10/91)

Oklahoma

Pennsylvania (if created before 1/1/05)

Rhode Island

South Carolina

Texas

Utah

[JustJoe]

Howdy Bill, I'm Joe. I think you will find that you are right at home here. We all have opinions here, relevant or not, so feel free to chirp when you wanna.

[JustJoe]

Which states allow common law marriage?

 

These are the only states that allow couples to create a common law marriage:

Alabama

Colorado

District of Columbia

Georgia (if created before 1/1/97)

Idaho (if created before 1/1/96)

Iowa

Kansas

Montana

New Hampshire (for inheritance purposes only)

Ohio (if created before 10/10/91)

Oklahoma

Pennsylvania (if created before 1/1/05)

Rhode Island

South Carolina

Texas

Utah

Thanks for the info, Carhill, but it's still irrelevant to the original question. It's only specific to CPL, if he lives in a State that doesn't allow such things.

[woinlove]

LMFAOROTF!!!!!

 

Obviously you didn't read all of this thread.

 

MY heart is into MY man to the point where f'ing someone else doesn't even OCCUR to me. My heart has NOTHING to do with YOUR relationship OR this thread.

 

Please - enjoy it for all you're worth.

 

Sorry, I misunderstood your comment then. I thought it was implying this discussion involved matters of the heart. My mistake. I suppose then we can both simply enjoy the quirkiness of a discussion which involves others telling me whether I am married or not!

[NoLongerSad]

Do you lack reading comprehension skills? There is a difference between not having a public ceremony and not being married.

 

I think it's a pretty simple question, not a lack of reading comprehension skills on my part.

 

Are you, or are you not, legally married?

 

Also, do you at least admit that you can only be legally married to one person, and therefore, automatically any additional people you bring into your relationship, will have a lesser social and legal status then the person you chose to marry?

 

You want it both ways without admitting it. You want the benefits of legal marriage to one person, you want sex with other people to whom you are not married, yet you want to claim that your relationship with the person to whom you are not married, is the same in status as the relationship you have in a legal marriage.

 

I think that's rather hypocritical actually.

[woinlove]

Woinlove, I really do understand your post, I just thought it was worded, funny. The main issue here seems to be one of semantics. You, CPL and LHLH, believe that a marriage is valid , even if there is sex outside it. I do not. Whether or not I "like", your relationship, is irrelevant. The OP's question was ; Is an open marriage a real marriage, or is it something else. I stated my opinion, and have defended it. You and others have taken issue with my opinion, and attacked it. That is what debate is all about. I have no opinion about the quality, sincerity or depth of any of your relationships, and wish all of you much happiness, and certainly do not intend any disrespect, of you or your so"s. And if you have read my posts, I have been at pains to always state that it was my opinion only and didn't constitute a personal attack on anyone.

 

Perhaps I am just dense but I still don't even know what you mean by saying someone else's marriage is not valid, other than as an opinion that you don't want a marriage like that.

 

If it is just that you want to say to me and others "I don't recognize your marriage", fine. No reason for you to recognize my marriage. Provided you aren't going to lobby your local politician to annul my marriage and have Texas not recognize it, I'm perfectly fine with you not recognizing my marriage.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Actually, what you need to be hoping is that YOU find someone who agrees with YOU about this stuff. Or, I guess "multiple" people, since you are an advocate for other than monogamous relationships.

 

I already have. Apparently, you don't know my back story. I am married to the world's most wonderful woman, but sexual monogamy was not something either of us wanted, so we are what's commonly referred to as 'swingers'. We go to parties and clubs where people of like minds gather to do that which we do. When we first started, we were absolutely shocked and the sheer volume of people who are involved in the scene, but it is what it is.

 

What happens when two of you want to engage in one activity, and the third wants to do something else?

 

We are not in a polyamorous relationship, nor are we actively seeking one, but if one finds us so be it. I imagine such things will be negotiated amongst three rather than two. As for us two, we are very, very similar in virtually every way, so there's not much arguing about anything.

 

How are feelings of jealousy managed? You don't say.

 

Jealousy is, at it's root, a fear of loss. As there is no chance that our outside sexual activities will result in losing our relationship, there is no reason for jealousy to exist.

 

You're promoting NEVER being in a committed monogamous relationship. Under any circumstances.

 

No, I'm not. In fact, I have repeatedly said that ONLY people who GENUINELY desire such a relationship should even attempt it, otherwise they're playing with fire.

 

Not that you are in favor of open marriages, but rather, that you are anti-monogamous.

 

Only for myself, and for my relationship. Others should do as their conscious guides.

 

It seems to me those soldiers actually have an understandable reason to want an open relationship, you can call it duress if you like. You're not under duress but you want it too.

 

But that's my point. We are not under duress, facing months of separation, and choosing what we perceive as the lesser of two evils. We are non-monogamous because we WANT to be, not because outside pressures make it a viable, if not really desired option. To the extent that Joes may have had soldiers who actually desired an open relationship, whose relationships were open even when they were going home to their spouse every night, instead of fighting in the desert half a world away, they were likely successful. Because they were desired.

 

Just because you are incapable of seeing the value of monogamy does not mean it is valueless. Once you stop insisting that monogamy has no value, then you will find a lot less people disagreeing with you.

 

The value, or lack thereof of sexual monogamy is in the eye of the beholder. To you, it's important. To me, it is not. The only thing that says is that you and I would make unsuitable partners for the other.

[sxyNYCcpl]

Are you, or are you not, legally married?

 

Yes, we were married by a judge, I believe, though she may have been a 'justice of the peace' whatever that is. But we have not held a public ceremony, though we intend to, eventually.

 

Also, do you at least admit that you can only be legally married to one person, and therefore, automatically any additional people you bring into your relationship, will have a lesser social and legal status then the person you chose to marry?

 

Yes, but as I said before we don't have a polyamorous relationship.

[NoLongerSad]

I already have. Apparently, you don't know my back story.

 

Should I?

 

 

I am married to the world's most wonderful woman,

 

It seems rather pointless for you to brag about being married to her if part of the deal is that you have to share her with others.

 

 

but sexual monogamy was not something either of us wanted, so we are what's commonly referred to as 'swingers'.

 

Well she didn't want monogamy with YOU, that's for certain. It might upset your applecart a little bit to contemplate that her desire for other men might be a reflection on your desirability, so you don't do that. It's inconvenient to your ego.

 

 

.We go to parties and clubs where people of like minds gather to do that which we do When we first started, we were absolutely shocked and the sheer volume of people who are involved in the scene, but it is what it is.

 

OK I did misunderstand you. I thought you had an "open marriage" for some reason. You don't. She's not allowed to have sex with anyone she wants and neither are you. You can only have sex with other people if you're keeping an eye on each other at these swingers' parties/clubs. That's different.

 

 

 

We are not in a polyamorous relationship, nor are we actively seeking one, but if one finds us so be it.

 

Well clearly if your wife insists on having sex with other men on a regular basis, she's not satisfied with you sexually. In your mind, you have this whole structure of rules about what is and is not allowed in your relationship, but that all goes out the window one day when she finally meets the guy who really floats her boat.

 

It's obvious that you think you're in control of things, but you know you're not, which is why you're so overly defensive about all of this.

 

You simply can't face the obvious fact that if your wife was sexually satisfied with you, you'd be enough for her.

 

Your entire construct is simply a way for you to avoid looking squarely in the face of this one central fact: You're not enough to sexually satisfy her. That's the bottom line.

 

 

I imagine such things will be negotiated amongst three rather than two.

 

You imagine it because it's never actually been discussed? It won't be negotiated, it won't be discussed, she'll do just exactly as she pleases when she decides to. What control do you have over her anyway? None.

 

 

 

As for us two, we are very, very similar in virtually every way, so there's not much arguing about anything.

 

Anytime someone feels the need to say that there's not much arguing in their intimate relationship, that's a big warning flag. You're claiming there's no conflict, if so, it's because she has her emotional as well as sexual outlets outside of the relationship.

 

 

Jealousy is, at it's root, a fear of loss. As there is no chance that our outside sexual activities will result in losing our relationship, there is no reason for jealousy to exist.

 

Obviously the bolded statement is just wishful thinking on your part. Of course there's a chance, a rather big chance, actually. Wishing it away doesn't make it not be there. What you should be saying, if you weren't in denial, is: "We are careful not to let our swinging endanger our relationship so we have appropriate boundaries in place."

 

 

 

 

 

 

No, I'm not. In fact, I have repeatedly said that ONLY people who GENUINELY desire such a relationship should even attempt it, otherwise they're playing with fire.

 

The question is why does your wife desire such a relationship.

 

 

 

 

But that's my point. We are not under duress, facing months of separation, and choosing what we perceive as the lesser of two evils. We are non-monogamous because we WANT to be, not because outside pressures make it a viable, if not really desired option.

 

Right, I understand your wife is not sexually satisfied by you alone, and that she needs other men. That point is clear, you said from the very beginning she didn't want to be monogamous with you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The value, or lack thereof of sexual monogamy is in the eye of the beholder. To you, it's important. To me, it is not.

 

You keep using the word "monogamy" in a very abstract way so as to avoid what it really means. Technically monogamy means only being married to one person, which you are, so you are "monogamous." You are a monogamous man whose wife is not sexually satisfied only having sex with her husband, and therefore needs to have sex with many other men.

 

You claim that is not important to you and you are not jealous, but if that were the case, you wouldn't need to make your swinging a tit for tat situation in which it could only happen when you both went to a swingers' club. Undoubtedly while at the club, you are constantly monitoring what she is doing, and who with. Meanwhile you insist all is well, and that this sort of behavior couldn't possibly threaten your marriage.

 

The only reason you harp against monogamy is because you were never able to achieve it yourself. You couldn't find a woman who would be satisfied with you, and only you. Therefore you have to denigrate anyone else who believes that to be a value. You don't have it, so you have to put it down.

 

Guess what? Your wife may be "wonderful," but MY wife doesn't need to screw other men to be happy. (As far as I know LOL).

 

 

The only thing that says is that you and I would make unsuitable partners for the other.

 

Apparently you don't really make a suitable partner for your spouse, since she needs to have sex with other men to be happy. I make a suitable partner for my spouse, since she doesn't.

[sxyNYCcpl]

It seems rather pointless for you to brag about being married to her if part of the deal is that you have to share her with others.

 

What you don't get is that I view that NOT as 'have' to, but as 'get' to. She feels likewise. Stepping over a couple in flagrante delecto is exciting, don't you think?

 

Well she didn't want monogamy with YOU, that's for certain. It might upset your applecart a little bit to contemplate that her desire for other men might be a reflection on your desirability, so you don't do that.

 

Actually, her primary desire is for other women. Yes, she has had other men, many, and enjoyed it, and I take pleasure in her pleasure, but it is what it is.

 

I thought you had an "open marriage" for some reason. You don't.

 

I used to think similarly. But then I realized that a relationship is either closed (monogamous), or it's not. While ours does not meet my classic definition of 'open', nor it seems your's, it is nonetheless thus.

 

Well clearly if your wife insists on having sex with other men on a regular basis, she's not satisfied with you sexually.

 

Bwhahahaha. You are assuming facts very much not in evidence. You know not what our lives are like, yet you claim to. No single person can provide 100% of the needs of another. Sexual or otherwise. You know not of what you speak.

 

In your mind, you have this whole structure of rules about what is and is not allowed in your relationship, but that all goes out the window one day when she finally meets the guy who really floats her boat.

 

What makes you think such has not already happened??

 

It's obvious that you think you're in control of things, but you know you're not, which is why you're so overly defensive about all of this.

 

Not at all. My wife and I are equals. It seems you don't think such a thing is possible.

 

You imagine it because it's never actually been discussed? It won't be negotiated, it won't be discussed, she'll do just exactly as she pleases when she decides to. What control do you have over her anyway? None.

 

You are correct. I have no 'control' over her. I seek no 'control'. I desire only her freely given love. And she thinks the same. You don't get it. That's okay. I suspect you expect a wife who obeys. I do not. I am happy with one who voluntarily loves me.

 

Of course there's a chance, a rather big chance, actually. Wishing it away doesn't make it not be there.

 

You know not of what you speak. Were there such a chance, it would have happened many times over by now. Yet it has not. What say you to that?

 

You keep using the word "monogamy" in a very abstract way so as to avoid what it really means. Technically monogamy means only being married to one person, which you are, so you are "monogamous."

 

Wrong. Monogamy is limiting your sexuality to a single person. Those who desire it should have it. Those who desire it should seek it. But those who desire it are not as widespread as you've been led to believe.

 

Undoubtedly while at the club, you are constantly monitoring what she is doing, and who with.

 

It seems you've been observing someone other than me, for I trust my wife completely. Not only do I not observe her compulsively as you have suggested, I enjoy it when she is sexually aggressive. You don't understand us, that's okay, but your conclusions are not only unreasonable, they are false.

 

Guess what? Your wife may be "wonderful," but MY wife doesn't need to screw other men to be happy. (As far as I know LOL).

 

My wife may enjoy screwing other men, but she always comes home with me. Should your wife do the same, she may not. Which of us is better off?

[JustJoe]

I think that I've stated all I care to, on this thread. Thanks again to the OP for his good question.