For all your OW out there.

[jmargel]

I've seen post after post on here asking questions on 'What does he mean by this, or why does he / don't he do this, and about how long you should wait, etc..'

 

Let me be very brief here. If the guy is married he is NOT going to leave his wife and children for you. He has the best of both worlds now. You as the OW are just a sex toy. A dog when called upon, and you come. Most of these men are power hungry and when it comes down to making a choice he will choose his wife. Why would he go through the cost of a very expensive divorce and losing his kids, house and repetitation for some chick he's been banging?

 

When things get too close for comfort, he'll end it with you and find some other chick to take your place.

 

Now most of you women have a good head on your shoulders, and granted your heart does cloud some judgement. But you have to ask yourself WHY you are involved with a married man. Are you too afraid for commitment? Having this is beneficial to you, you get the love & care (even though its superficial) from a man, yet there is no true commitment. Do you like the drama? Is your life that boring or missing something that you have to fill the void with this? Do you like a challenge? This is a guy you can't truly have but you are used to getting what you want, so you will try ANYTHING to get him. Or is it jealously? You see another woman very happy and just can't deal with your own depression, so this is your way of coping.

 

Now even if the slim chance happens and this guy leaves his WHOLE family for you, can you really trust him? What makes you think YOU are SO special that you are going to change him into a respectable, loving, caring man? Guess what, you can't. Just like women falling for these 'bad boys', and think they are the one that are going to change them. There have been countless women before you who thought the same and failed.

 

What you are really doing is wasting your time. Find a single guy who can truly appreciate you for who you are. Not become some married guy's toy. Yes each situation is different, but they end usually all the same.

[FreeMe]

I'll probably get blasted and labeled, but I've had a few affairs and I'll tell you why. First of all, I didn't seek out married men, but at the time I would usually end up very intensely attracted to older men and most of them happened to be married. The intense attraction I realize now is from issues of abandonment, abuse, neglect, daddy, and of course, low self-esteem and fear of not being loved in a long-term relationship. I got involved with these men for the physical aspect - or so I thought. Of course I became somewhat emotionally involved but I never wanted them or expected them to leave their wives. I knew it was wrong and I didn't want to hurt anyone (i.e., wife) but it was such a strong drive - the attractions were so strong - the kind you lose sleep over and you literally tremble when you're near them. So I got involved. The one guy I was involved with long-term I actually have to thank for having gotten me into counseling and figuring out some of the above issues - so at least something good came out of it.

[jmargel]

I'm glad you figured out why you did the things you did. That's where I think alot of the women who post in this board are trying or at least should try to find out why they are doing this.

[Fancy]

Jmargel you are exactly right in every single word you said. I agree with you 100%.

 

FreeMe, what you said really touched me. I've had to deal with the exact things you mentioned my entire life. Recognizing the root of your actions is the most important step and is very empowering because you now have a starting point. There's so many healthier ways to get the void filled. Thousands of dollars in therapy taught me that. LOL

[Arabess]

GREAT POST Jmargel!

 

I think it's great for OW's to hear this type of advice from a man.

 

Sometimes, people get invovled in these types of relationships before even knowing what a guy's REAL marriage status is. I did the same thing a couple of years ago. I wish I would've walked out the first day...instead of letting it ride until it almost became my greatest life disaster.

 

The deal is.....sooner or later....you'll have to face the pain of separating from the relationship. It's better to just get it over with. You can always tell a guy that once his divorce papers are stapled to his forehead....you'll reconsider. Till then....you will look for a love which will honor you....not make you feel like a used condom. LOL!

 

If a guy wants to screw around....that's his choice. BUT....he should NEVER lie about the status of the relationship or where it is heading. It's just cruel.

 

.........hey Fancy.....good to see you!!!!!!

[yes]

just a reminder that yes, it's rare, but divorces for OW do happen out there.

 

-yes

[Fancy]

Thanks, Arabess! I've been so swamped lately that last night was the first time I'd had to view the board in over a week.

[thankful1]

[font=courier new][color=brown]Something to Think About....

 

Have you ever noticed that the worst way to miss someone is when they are right beside you and yet you can never have them.....when the moment you can't feel them under your fingertips, you miss them?*

 

Have you ever wondered which hurts the most; saying something and wishing you had not, or saying nothing and wishing you had?*

 

I guess the most important things are the hardest things to say. They are the things you get ashamed of because words diminish them, words shrink things that seemed timeless when they were in your head...to no more than living size when they are brought out....*

 

Don't be afraid to tell someone you love them. If you do, they might break your heart...but if you don't, you might break theirs.*

 

Your heart decides who it likes and who it doesn't. You can't tell your heart what to do. It does it on its own.... when you least suspect it, or even when you don't want it to.*Have you ever wanted to love someone with everything you had, but that other person was too afraid to let you?*

 

Too many of us stay walled because we are too afraid to care too much...for fear that the other person does not care as much, or at all.*

 

Have you ever loved someone and they had absolutely no idea whatsoever? Or fell for your best-friend in the entire world, and then sat around and watched him/her fall for someone else?*

 

Have you ever denied your feelings for someone because your fear of rejection was too hard to handle?*

 

We tell lies when we are afraid.. afraid of what we don't know, afraid of what others will think, afraid of what will be found out about us. But every time we tell a lie.... the thing we fear grows stronger.*

 

Life is all about risks and it requires you to jump. Don't be a person who has to look back and wonder what they would have, or could have had.

 

 

*********************************************[/color][/font]

 

This month marked 3 years of affair- the happiest period of my life - memories of which I will always cherish.

 

It also is the end of it.

 

I am thankful for the opportunity of my association of MM as it significantly helped me to put closure on a painful past - something I was not able to achieve inspite of many years of counselling/therapy and gave me enthusiastic hope for the future where I now see life as a grand adventure, something to be savoured.

 

This has led me to achieve so many personal triumphs that sometimes I am still truly amazed.

 

As I said before MM was the first person to take the time out to get to know and understand me and was unstinting in encouraging me to aim for the sky at all times.

 

He is the best friend I have ever had and I know that our involvement was not because of any concerns he had at home. Whenever we spoke about his wife, it was about his wanting to make his marriage a success and the need to lessen contact with me while keeping his promise of being there for me as a friend.

 

So we have decided to once again try NC. I know that I am going to miss the camaraderie etc I shared with him but at the same time have to acknowledge and accept that it is the only way to change the nature of the relationship between us and avoid the risk of us both being the cause of distress to anyone.

[Skittles]

He is the best friend I have ever had and I know that our involvement was not because of any concerns he had at home. Whenever we spoke about his wife, it was about his wanting to make his marriage a success and the need to lessen contact with me while keeping his promise of being there for me as a friend.

 

 

Hi thankful,

 

I am glad for you that this relationship resulted in a positive life-changing experience......... Many don't.

 

I am sorry that his wife had to loan him out to you, in a sense, and she had to have known he wasn't wholly present in their relationship, but now that he is ending it with you, ..he can be...(Doesn't mean he will be though..their own story may or may not end well)

 

But you have had the best of each other for awhile and you can carry that with you for the rest of your life.

 

I am not a big fan of affairs...They offer crazy, inconsistent, guilt-inducing, addicting, off -the-wall experiences and rarely end in second marriages..( I personally know of one that did though!)

 

Alot of OWs end of feeling used, the mm still confused, and the wife, abused....so it doesn't offer a good return as a relationship choice, but in your case you landed on your feet...

 

I know you will be able to offer support to others who are going through and trying to end this type of involvement.

 

And it is true...the heart loves who it loves...

 

If a mm becomes the caring friend and mentor, or the father figure, to the ow, the truly loving thing would be to offer her support short of sex....and if that is not possible, then offer nothing.

 

And if a vulnerable, loving woman runs across a tortured mm, who is unhappily married, then the most loving thing for her would be to offer an ear, and just an ear ladies!...... ...

Best thing would be to stay away altogether, but we humans have a tough time doing this it seems.

 

 

So bravo thankful...good luck with the weaning process.

 

 

 

I have the feeling that the next guy will be yours and yours only.

[thankful1]

Thanks Skittles for understanding - it is such a difference from the usual bashing for being an affair.

 

One of the cornerstone's of our relationship is communication.

 

I realised that to a large extent in the past whenever I was feeling hurt or upset about something I tended to internalise rather than expressing it since I had thought it was important in order to maintain the peace with the people I interact with - family, friends, co-workers etc. - I suppose it is coming from a childhood which was filled with abuse and a continuation of same into adulthood.

 

One of the things I learnt from MM was that disagreements were healthy as long as it was done in an atmosphere of mutual respect and caring for the other person's feelings while not suppressing one's own. It is okay to get angry.

 

I could not believe the difference it made when I started being more assertive and vocalising how I felt. Wish I knew even ten years ago what I know now.

 

More and more I am convinced that there is someone special and single who is out there for me, all I have to do is be patient and wait. Sometimes though I wonder if having been out of a committed relationship so long (about 7 years - it had lasted 12 years) if I really want to be part of a couple again. I occasionally remind myself that I am a more self-assured person who while hope to have a partner, is for the most part quite contented on my own.

 

And in the meantime will continue on the path of personal development.

 

Thinking too that as long as MM was an integral part of my life, it will be extremely difficult for me to anyone else objectively.

 

Maybe because recently I have been giving serious thought to what it might be like to have a 'real' relationship, I feel very concerned about the BS and hoping that I never find myself in that position.

[smarterthanthis]

I wanted to relate my story. Much like other women who never dream of being involved with a married man, I was one of them. I couldn't understand how any woman would make that kind of mistake, until now. To put it mildly, it's been the one of the hardest things to deal with. The guilt alone was enough to make me not want to get out of bed. When I think of his wife, I feel like absolute crap. She didn't ask for this. She married him for better or for worse, and as far as I know has kept her vow. Needless to say, it didn't work out. He told me last May that he was leaving, that it was an amicable separation, and he asked me out. I refused, at first. But we continued to talk and be friends, and then it developed into more. It just ended about a month ago. I am finding my footing again, and analyzing why I was involved with him. I think it's important to figure out the "whys" so that I can understand how I could fall so hard for someone who wasn't meant to be mine.

 

I can tell you that I was involved in a very bad relationship for many years, and suffered from very low self-esteem before I met him, but I'm not sure if that sounds like an excuse. In most other aspects of my life, I excel-- work, friends, family, etc. When it comes to men, I pick all the wrong ones. I truly adored this man, and it is very difficult to get over him. But at the same time, I recognize that the intense Highs and the intense Lows were not healthy. There was no middle ground for us, either we got along famously and mapped out our entire future (family, kids, evenings out together, sex), or we argued heatedly. It was passionate to both extremes, although we rarely saw each other and engaged twice in intercourse. Our involvement was primarily over the phone or through text messaging. It's difficult because I opened myself up to him in so many ways that I have not with anyone else. I think that he engaged my mind, body, and soul more than any other man that I know. I believe that he did care about me, whether I ruined it or not (as he believes) is moot.

 

So now, I am attempting to find other activities to get involved in. I torture myself with him happy with his wife and their son (her's from a previous marriage-- not that that makes a difference). That might not be the wisest or best way to handle it, but during the moments when I miss him the most, I remind myself that he is committed to someone else. I remind myself of the constant fighting, all the things that bothered me (i.e. his emotional manipulation tactics, his constant pestering of digging into every aspect of my life, his inability to let go of a subject, his constant accusations of how horribly I treated him), and I surround myself with my very good friends. I have found out who my true friends are in all of this. They are the ones who have stood by me, have never condemned me, have constantly been there for me, have worried about me (especially through my darkest moments when I lost considerable weight and was drinking every night), and have supported me through it all. I have learned some truly important things through all of this. I'm hoping that I can walk away stronger and smarter. Hopefully, someday, I will find someone who is free for me to love and who will love me in return, but I am not searching for it. I'm taking it one day at a time and putting my life back together. I'm not ready to be involved with anyone at this point, and I don't know when I will be. I hope that I can forgive myself in time.

 

Thank you for reading my rant. I don't ask for sympathy, pity, or condemnation. I just wanted to share. To all women out there who may be facing similar circumstances, I have no words of advice. To all other men and women who will condemn me for what I did, I have nothing to say. I don't think anyone can condemn me more than I do myself.

[Skittles]

I remind myself that he is committed to someone else

 

Hi Smarter...

 

Good for you, you are a healthy sprout on your way to better things

 

Imo, your ex mm was not committed to anyone..not even himself or his own true best interest...whatever that meant in terms of his marital status.

 

I am not clear as to whether he broke up with you or vice versa...but from your post, you sound centered and that is a very good thing.

 

 

I sometimes believe when two unavailables meet and get entangled in an intense relationship they are, somewhere in their lives, vibrating or resonating at the same psychological, emotional frequency...

They are at the same place on their life/love map and the coincidence...they "coincide", just makes for some powerful stuff...Take that and add it to his dissatisfaction and her neediness and KAPOW!!...

 

Potent, voodoo love.....

 

Glad you broke the spell....

[Dug]

I believe that jmargel's original post was thought insoiring for men and women who are or who have contemplated an affair....but.....let's not throw everyone in the same box. There are legitimate affairs that become bonding relationships, and each one is tailored to the needs and desires of those involved. Basically, men seem to want to populate and women want to nest....but there are exceptions. If a marriage is over and people stay together "for the kids", or abused but afraid of being alone, then an affair could be the beginning of a new rewarding life. I remember as I was standing at the alter waiting for my bride ...the minister leaned over and said. "Ya know, there are 10,000 women out there who could make you as happy as this woman can".....not sure why he said that, but I never forgot it either. Don't think that if you had a rocky marriage in Boston and moved to L.A , that you'ed never find love.

[Bronzepen]

Originally posted by Dug

There are legitimate affairs that become bonding relationships, and each one is tailored to the needs and desires of those involved.

 

 

Legitimate affairs? That's like saying legitimate spousal abuse or legitimate pedophilia. Sorry but affairs are wrong. If you can't bond with your SO then you should never had gotten married. Yeah I can hear now the old saying, "Well we grew apart.", "Things changed." or "Were're only human." What a copout.

 

Ever notice people always look for somekind of justification for something they know they shouldn't have done?

 

IMO, I think the institution of marriage is not taken very seriously, in today's day and age. It takes a lot of work and I think people are just too lazy to make the effort, hence the high rate of divorces.

[thankful1]

Originally posted by Dug

I believe that jmargel's original post was thought inspiring for men and women who are or who have contemplated an affair....but.....let's not throw everyone in the same box.

 

Thank you Dug for injecting a fresh point of view. I agree affairs are wrong and having been in one has made me more cautious and aware.

 

Notwithstanding the fact that mine has ended with a certain amount of sadness as we said goodbye for most likely the last time and although we have stopped communicating verbally, the bond between us remains just as strong.

 

It has not been easy but we are trying.

 

The last time he called, I did not answer the phone even though I knew that he knew I was at home.

 

This morning I was tempted to call but resisted the urge reminding myself of the agreement we made to end things.

[Marnie]

I just found this site tonight and have read through many posts. Yike!!! Now I do feel like crap!! I've been having an affair with this guy for 10 years now. Don't get to see him a whole lot but we keep in touch. I know I love him. We both have an understanding...I think. I love my husband but he doesn't turn me on anymore. He is in the same boat but fears losing his 3 kids. So we respect that of each other. I would love to have the freedom to be "with" him..wherever but that's nearly impossible so we sneak around. I really hate doing that. I do feel awful for the number of people we are hurting. I almost feel selfish because of my want my cake and eat it to attitude. Never thought in a million years I'd have an affair. Alot of joy but also LOTS of sorrow. Still we plod along. There is alot about this man that I adore. But you have to wonder why we really put ourselves through it all.

[TigerEyes]

Originally posted by Skittles

 

I am sorry that his wife had to loan him out to you

 

and the wife, abused....

 

 

 

 

 

I quoted just two things of what you said...because it is SO INSIGHTFUL....(and on the mark)

 

Thank you for stating what most people don't recognize.

 

God Bless you!

[LBSnowOW]

Originally posted by jmargel

Now even if the slim chance happens and this guy leaves his WHOLE family for you, can you really trust him? What makes you think YOU are SO special that you are going to change him into a respectable, loving, caring man? Guess what, you can't. Just like women falling for these 'bad boys', and think they are the one that are going to change them. There have been countless women before you who thought the same and failed.

 

There is a world of wisdom in this. My H was one of the few to leave me and our three children to be with the OW. He did so after I confronted him about the evidence I'd found that he was cheating on me. And guess what? He's cheating on her... with me!

 

Now, why would I still be sleeping with my H when I know he's been unfaithful... and forced me to suffer the devastation of not only being betrayed, but also abandonned? Well,

 

1) I take my vows seriously, and until the day I'm divorced, I remain faithful... I will not sleep with anyone else. I need sex too, (BOB's fine, but I like the real thing better!) and unlike the OW, I have a right to have sex with my H!

 

2) Revenge, in a way. A taste of her own medicine.

 

She's been told he's cheating on her (funny to say that, since he's MY H) when she was following me around in a chat room. -The following me around part, to me, demonstrates her insecurity in their relationship... and though she used a lot of expletives, called me lots of undesirable names, and told me there was no way my H would have sex with someone as fat and ugly as me (first of all, two of these three children are biologically his... and no artificial insemination was used... and she's not all that herself... check her out! lol http://www.hotornot.com/r/?eid=GZELGRK&key=AKH ), but like I said to her about that particular occasion -it took almost three hours to drop off the kids, when I live less than 5 minutes away... and I was able to describe his boxers to a "T", which are new... he didn't have those when he was still living with me and the kids. On another occasion, I told her that unless he remembered to throw it away, he had a condom wrapper in his jacket pocket... complete with brand name and expiration date. I'm guessing it was still there, and that she believes me now, though she hasn't said so, and hasn't offered an apology. The reason I think it's getting through to her that he's not exclusive to her is she has changed her profile. Relationship status is now blank instead of the "spoken for" it said before, interests are blank, where it said "snuggling with my honey bear"... and she has not harassed me since, though I wouldn't doubt if she's entered under a different screen name to see what I'm saying.

 

I know I can do better. I know I DESERVE better. But until he's divorced me (and that's up to HIM to do ~if he's the one that wants out, he can pay for it and explain it to our children when they ask), and until I've healed from the incredible hurt I've endured, I won't let anyone else into my heart. It wouldn't be fair to him (the next guy, not my H) or to my children, as the walls are up and I wouldn't be giving my 100%.

[LBSnowOW]

hmmm... looks like if you wanna see what my H's OW looks like, you're going to have to copy and paste the link!! http://www.hotornot.com/r/?eid=GZELGRK&key=AKH

 

and TigerEyes, you're absolutely right about those quotes!

[jmargel]

and until I've healed from the incredible hurt I've endured

 

You won't do that until you leave him for good, have no contact with him and go through the 5 stages of grief. You are playing HIS game. You think you have the upper hand but you don't. Good players know this, and he's getting sex not only from her & you, but probably from numerous other chicks as well.

[Chrissy21]

As I read the original thread I have see the common sense in what he wrote. Yes, most of it is probably true when it comes to men leaving their wives for the OW. But I do believe that there are exceptions to that rule.

 

The thing is my MM pursued me. I was always reluctant about being in a relationship with him because I didn't want to get my heart broken. And I knew from the beginning that I would fall in love in with him. It turns out that he fell in love first. And some of you might think that he was just using that as a way to continue that affair and make me want to stay. Maybe so, but he was more troubled by the whole affair than i was. I saw his pain and felt it as well.

 

I fell in love with him and I have never been worried that he was just using me for sex. Never. And I have faith that everything will turn out the right way. That may mean that we won't work out, but I do know that if i never fall in love again, at least I had the chance to know the greatest love of my life. I felt feelings that I didn't know were possible. He knows everything about me. He knows how to make me laugh, and even how to make me cry. He knows when I'm sad-even over the phone. There have been times he has made me so angry and sometimes those were the best times. Maybe through all of that he was married and I know that's not right. And maybe it's selfish of me but I'm happy that I took the chance. So many people are afraid to take a leap of faith, and maybe that's the worst mistake.

 

I don't feel bitterness that the love of my life is married. Sometimes I feel sadness but only because I want it all.

[thankful1]

My sentiments exactly. My view is that it is unlikely for lightning to strike the same place twice so there is a high probability that I will never find the kind of comfort and happiness as I did with xMM which was the reason walking away was such a hard decision.

 

For a long time I was afraid/disillusioned by the male species and it was really a balm to my spirit to meet someone who could be firm but gentle even when we had disagreements, an atmosphere of caring and mutual respect. As I interact more and more with others I appreciate anew how special that quality is.

 

Before meeting him I never thought it was possible for two people to be so attuned to each other that they could sense when the other was troubled or facing some form of crisis without direct contact. At first I was skeptical and marked it down to coincidence but gradually I began to realized that it was part of what we had.

 

Recently he was telling me how much he missed talking to me etc. Told him that we will always be friends but at the moment I don't think it wise for us to communicate directly.

 

I believe that it will all work out - maybe the day will come when he is out of my life completely but for now I am just glad that I took the chance of trusting him.

 

How can I trust someone who has proven himself not to be faithful to vows he made? Maybe it is because I accept that no one is perfect and he has fulfilled every promise he made to me plus, plus not to mention too that he has always been open and straightforward with me.

[Lustymama]

Well, I don't consider myself the "other" woman at this moment. I haven't done anything physical with the married man I'm interested in. The chemistry is crazy intense, we work together, so, it's even worse, and we've cyber-sexed (his idea) although I told him I'm not comfortable with it as he said he's got a great wife. So, I can't quite figure out why he's been contacting me and wanting to do stuff. Today, we almost came close to meeting somewhere and making stuff happen. I kept hesitating, as my moral values are completely against it.

 

I know what my reasons are for being tempted. I'm lonely, I haven't had sex in a very long time, and little intimate contact with a man for that matter. So, my reasons for doing what I'm doing are completely selfish. I'm trying to remain controlled to prevent it from happening.

 

I'm confused about his reasons. He says he feels like crap that he's been doing this, but not quite ready to stop. He said his wife makes him feel good about himself and he doesn't want to hurt her, and I said I don't want anyone to get hurt either, including myself. I don't know what to say, I'm lost and confused.

[Skittles]

Lustymama I am adding my 2c.

 

I believe you have an emotional cakeman on your hands..He loves the attention he is getting, the strokes, the fantasy life you invoke has bolstered his sagging sex life with his wife.

 

Look out if you are vulnerable this can put you behind the eight ball.

 

He is washing his hands of all guilt by letting you know in advance, just in case you should decide to seduce him, that he is happy with his wife...So if anything happens it's your idea..Get it

 

I know you work with Prince Charming, which makes it really ****ty, but you have to surgically remove any notions of a friendship or blossoming attraction asap...without the anesthesia if need be!

 

You are the ow, now, even if it is just "emotional" and the chemistry is intense because you are lonely and he is flattered..

 

Run, don't walk to any mixer, club, dating service that will help you meet an available to help spend some of that sexual energy of yours.

 

But whatever you do, avoid this MM.. Because if you think you are unhappy now!

 

 

Good Luck ...dodge that bullet girl!

[zarathustra]

Lustymama, I recommend that you hook up with this MM so long as you harbor no illusions that he will leave his wife for you. He most likely will not.

 

You're lonely and you have great chemistry with this colleague. (I hope he's a co-worker and neither your bosss nor your subordinate). Realize the the life of the OW is not a bed of roses but it's likely to be more fun, stimulating and arousing than what you have now. Better a married companion than none at all.

 

Have some affair sex, and if it's good, then have some more. A woman does not live by her morals alone. You'll probably have fun--at least at the beginning.