"Never seen him as a pedophile"

[Samson]

Hey, LS:

 

Question: Are 20 something guys who date 12-16 year old girls pedaphiles? Are they "normal?"

[brashgal]

I don't know that you could lump them all into one category. Some of them might be very socially backward with little dating experience and so they feel more comfortable with a younger girl. Some want to be in control - so much easier with someone young and impressionable. Most of the time I think they are just asking for trouble.

 

Look at Elvis and Priscilla - was he considered a pedophile?

[meanon]

I think most would see 12/13 year olds as children. At 14/15 the numbers that are sexually active means that different standards apply, but most societies recognise the vulnerability of children in this age group too. I'd be slightly suspicious of a 20 year old who dated a 16 year old but I don't think it's paedophilia. No it's not normal and, with the exception of 16 year olds, it's illegal in most places too.

 

It's interesting to see the variation in age of consent worlwide and within the US:

 

http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

[quankanne]

by today's standards, Elvis probably COULD be considered a pedophile, though off the top of my head, I cannot remember how old 'Cilla was when they started courting.

 

Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis's contemporary, married his 13-yoa first cousin – he was in his early 20s, I believe. now THAT'S pretty damned gross, and, by today's standard's he'd definitely be considered a pedophile.

 

I don't think "good" intent has anything to do with someone messing around with a minor, no matter how "willing" they seem to be -- they are not of an age of reason, not fully aware of the decision they're making even if they are the ones who may be doing the pursuing of the other party.

 

my vote goes with "what the hell was he thinking, having sex with a minor that young?!!"

[Samson]

Yes, legal age is one thing.....interesting.

 

I wish it could be more popular knowledge what MY age limits would be regarding 20 something males who wish to date my daughter. Without general guidelines based on social mores, I'm some guys will learn hard lessons taught without prejudice to legality. Warned

[meanon]

The battles of adolescence, nothing like them . There are 15 years between my sister and I. I remember the trench warfare.

 

I would not let my 16 year old daughter date someone in their 20s - no question. Luckily she's only 5 - lots of time left before I have to start worrying about such things! I guess I would want to know what they could possibly have in common. Are they a social peer or not (ie. is the girl in school or is she socialising with workmates some of whom are older)?

 

When my sister was 16 she had a friend who did some modelling and so came into contact regularly with older people - she dated a 20 something guy. All the others dated people of their own age with whom they socialised. To be honest, at that age, if she had wanted to go out with any stranger my mum would have said no, regardless of his age. 16 is too young to be able to handle things if they get tricky. I think dating tends to take place much earlier in the US, so there may be cultural differences.

[quankanne]

you've got a good point about there being cultural differences when it comes to dating on this side of the pond, even amongst the different ethnic groups. I know Hispanics tend to be stricter about that kind of stuff and often don't allow their daughters to "date" until they're much older because dating = marriage (i.e., a girl doesn't date a guy unless they're pretty much planning to marry!). And I've heard of others say the same thing about their cultural group

 

I wish it could be more popular knowledge what MY age limits would be regarding 20 something males who wish to date my daughter

 

gee samson, you need to do what my boss does: he's got six girls ranging from almost 16 to age 38. His idea of keeping his daughters from wanting to date too early? Making some VERY loud and discouraging noises about wanting to introduce Mr. Two-by-Four Scrap of Lumber to the kneecaps of the little boys even remotely interested in his girls! He's very protective of his girls, I guess because he was such a free-spirited guy in his youth and he knows what's on the minds of young men once they reach puberty! Come to think of it, there was only one boy I recall that he didn't have any problems with his one daughter taking to the prom, and that's because he knew the kid and his family. All the other ones, though, got the "mess with my little girl and you'll get whacked in the knees" speech!!!

 

you could always brainwash her into thinking she's Daddy's Little Princess, and No One Will Ever Be Good Enough for her ...

[quankanne]

ugh! this comment just sprang to mind, I'd heard it on the radio on the way back from lunch today. I'm guessing it's from the Dolly Parton movie "9 to 5":

 

"This is the 80s ... if we're old enough for puberty, we're old enough for a past."

 

age doesn't matter, then, does it?

[kkat]

What an interesting question.

 

I think there is a massive difference between a 12 year old and a 16 year old. Why would a 12 year old be dating anyone, regardless of the age of the guy? I don't have children, but I know that among my friends here in the metro NY area, their daughters generally start "dating" around 13, but in very controlled environments.

 

As for me, I started dating when I was around 13, but without my parent's knowledge, and by 14 I was sexually active. I was mature for my age as compared to other girls (emotionally, intellectually, etc.) but honestly, it was way too young. I wish my parents hadn't been so naive that I "got away with it".

[Samson]

e samson, you need to do what my boss does: he's got six girls ranging from almost 16 to age 38. His idea of keeping his daughters from wanting to date too early? Making some VERY loud and discouraging noises about wanting to introduce Mr. Two-by-Four Scrap of Lumber to the kneecaps of the little boys even remotely interested in his girls!

 

We're going to melt all the gold in the house and cast a statue of your boss

[dyermaker]

I have suspicious contempt for ANY legal adult male who dates a girl who is sixteen or below. I immediately think of her as a victim.

[michelle417]

Question: Are 20 something guys who date 12-16 year old girls pedaphiles? Are they "normal?"

 

I am the person quoted in subject line.

 

I never said it was normal for a 20 yr old to date a 13-14 yr old girl. I was just hoping that no one would make an issue of that. I am obviously confused about this whole situation. From the age of about 18-30 I thought of him as being a child molester too. I don't know why my perspective has changed from that. I guess now that I'm so old, lol, I see him at 20 as a child himself. Maybe he is the reason I'm so messed up in the head?????? In the small town that I lived in, all the girls dated college age guys. And this was back in 1983, before people finally started talking openly about pedophiles. Of course our parents didn't give us permission, we knew better than to even ask permission, so we all told our parents we were out w/ our girlfriends. We were all usually in large groups too.

 

Jerry Lee Lewis also came to my mind, lol.

 

When I grew up and pedophiles were finally discussed, of course I saw it as wrong for a 20 something seeing a child!!!

 

I'm not trying to sound conceited or anything, but I TRULY looked like a 23 yr old when I hit puberty. My appearance was nothing like a normal child that age. Older men were constantly approaching me. At age 12, the singer of the country group Alabama tried to get me to go on the bus for the rest of the tour with them when I was getting an autograph....then Mom caught up to me and put him in his place. He was horribly embarassed and apologetic. It certainly doesn't make it ok to date a 13 yr old, but I just wanted to give a picture.

[silk_sword]

i suppose everything depends on the specific circumstance. it could be abnormal if the 20 year old male always went for females from 12-16. i do believe that there should be a cut off age. but, i believe if the female is 16 and the male is 20 than the situation may be perfectly normal/acceptable. it depends on the guy. samson - does this guy seem strange to u? have u met him? does he make an effort to get to know you? he may have no problems whatsoever. he could genuinely adore your daughter. u have to judge each situation as it faces you. i believe that it would be hard on your daughter to be with an older man. obviously a 20 year old has had a lot more experience than a 16 year old (and i'm implying emotionally) in relationships. i am with someone now that i knew since I was 16. he is a good deal older than i (9 years). i found out that we both crushed on one another since we met. we never initiated anything, because of age and the fact that we both were unaware of each other's interest. we have recently gotten together and discussed our past interests in each other. he still adored me, when we met again. he still adores me now. we r both old enough now to be with each other, but the fact remains that he felt things for me when i was only 16. does this make him strange? no, not at all. he felt something for another person. this wasn't dependent on age. if it was than he wouldn't care for me now. in addition, he makes a huge effort to know my family. He also does things for my family (cook, spend time with). He may be nervous around them at times, but that is because he is trying to make the best impression. You just have to weigh each situation samson. don't immediately believe that the occurence is strange and immoral. u would be letting your "dad-instincts," (the desire to dispose of any male trying to be with your little darling ) make a decision that is in truth rightfully your daughter's choice. however, if you see the situation between them get unhealthy, don't hesitate to pop him in the a$$ with any rifle or gun that is in reach. lol (by the way - just kidding)

[faux]

Originally posted by Samson

Hey, LS:

 

Question: Are 20 something guys who date 12-16 year old girls pedaphiles? Are they "normal?"

 

Twenty-something year olds dating twelve-to-sixteen year old girls would be breaking the law, so yes. Exploitation of minors is wrong.

 

If by "normal" you mean "ill-informed" and "asking for trouble" then "yes".

 

 

...but, i believe if the female is 16 and the male is 20 than the situation may be perfectly normal/acceptable. it depends on the guy....

 

Oh. So some guys are exempt from United States Law? You can not be age 18 or older and be intimate with any person under the age of 18. Let me put it this way: I am 21. If I even kissed a 16 or 17 year old I could get charged with a crime.

 

Don't take my word for it, and also please don't take common misconceptions of the law seriously. This is almost like people saying "What contract!? I never signed anything!", having absolutely no idea of what constitutes as a legally binding agreement. Go and ask an attorney and you will find he agrees with me. If you won't ask an attorney, then I'm sorry but I'm sticking to my guns, and the law.

 

I realize that many people won't ever bother asking an attorney about these things, mostly because they want to believe they are correct. Unfortunately, people like this will always have others to support them.

 

...It's interesting to see the variation in age of consent worlwide and within the US:

 

http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm...

 

It's interesting to me to see how foolish people are to go and believe everything they read on the internet*. THIS WEBSITE IS WRONG if you are using it for legal information in the United States. I've also read online that Bush is an alien. Would you take legal advice (The age of consent, in which most states do not even have an "age of consent" term on the legal books) from a dentist? NO! So why are you believing silly things you read online?

 

Come over my house and I will bring you to the local legal library, and show you in the New Jersey Criminal Code of Conduct book where it says, at least in MY state, that you cannot be 18 and be intimate with anyone under the age of 18.

 

Did you notice the site's disclaimer?

 

Taken verbatim from the URL: http://www.avert.org/disclaimer.htm

 

AVERT hopes that the information provided on its website pages is helpful to readers. However, as advice must always be given to fit the circumstances of each individual, it is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice.

 

All information made available by AVERT on this website is without warranty of any kind either expressed or implied. AVERT accepts no responsibility for loss which may arise from reliance on information contained on this site. It shall not be responsible for the content of any other site which is linked either to or from its site.

 

Any pages contained within the "free resources" section of this website may be downloaded or printed for personal use provided that no alterations to any of the pages are made and that where pages are shown to be part of a numbered set, the full set are printed and used together, and that no use is made of any of the pages in any other work or publication in whatever medium stored. None of the website pages may be distributed or copied for any commercial purposes.

 

If any material shall be downloaded or printed for educational purposes, it shall be the responsibility of the person or body so doing to comply with the laws of the state or nation within which the material shall be used.

 

The terms of this disclaimer will be governed by and construed in accordance with English law and both AVERT and the individual users submit to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the English courts...

 

Gee. If these were sound legal facts, why in the world do they need a disclaimer to cover their asses? Just read that disclaimer over about five times and you should see what I am talking about. They really are trying to cover their butts here.

 

I don't care if these people are an internationally recognized charity organization — all the more power to them. This organization is not, however, capable of providing sound legal advice.

 

Never trust any legal advice you read or hear unless it is coming from a licensed attorney with a degree in law. I am not claiming that I know the law any better than the rest of you, because until I began getting educated on these topics I also believed age 16 was the legal "age of consent". "Age of consent"!?! Such a myth!

 

I spoke to an attorney about this to solve a "bet", and have spoken to several other attorneys. I even went so far as to write the District Attorney. Not only that, but as I said, I walked into a legal library and did some research.

 

I have one friend who is battling in court right now for messing around with a 14 and 16 year old, and he is 20. I wonder why he is having such legal problems when, after all, as we all know it is perfectly legal to share intimacy with a minor.

 

Forgive my sermon, go read the actual law from a TRUSTED source (not internet gibberish**), and talk to an attorney. You will see that I am being a hot-head about this for good enough reason. I would like to think that if more people take the time to get qualified advice on the law they will all be better off.

 

...All the other ones, though, got the "mess with my little girl and you'll get whacked in the knees" speech!!!

 

Watch out. Under certain circumstances that could be considered a threat of violence, which is very much illegal. Of course, the scared teen, or in this case twenty-something male, would have to report his concerns to local authorities in good faith. In other words, he must actually believe that he was in physical danger. After that whole process there is always the court date. Lots of fun.

 

* I am not assuming that you believe the information on this website is accurate.

 

** Think of it this way: Even internet and cyber law websites have disclaimers. Gee, I wonder why that is? Don't worry, as I will spare you all from further preaching.

[Samson]

Under certain circumstances that could be considered a threat of violence, which is very much illegal. Of course, the scared teen, or in this case twenty-something male, would have to report his concerns to local authorities in good faith. In other words, he must actually believe that he was in physical danger. After that whole process there is always the court date. Lots of fun.

 

Yes, agreed, "lots of fun."

 

Beware, you 20-something males, there are fathers who will risk the "fun."

 

We also know how to have fun without witnesses.

[Samson]

I TRULY looked like a 23 yr old

 

Ok, Michelle, I'm not in the least attacking your judgement at the time, or the norms in whatever time or place you were living, but what you looked like has nothing to do with your mental age (or, perhaps more importantly, the mental age of your bf at the time). You are NOT TO BLAME. In fact, I began this thread separately from your own because you specifically asked that this not become a subject of your thread. Courtesy.

 

Silk-

he could genuinely adore your daughter. u have to judge each situation as it faces you.

 

Any 20 something male that hasn't got any better prospects than any 16 year old female has automatically failed my scrutiny test, and will risk life and limb continuing to persist in his interest (e.g. drawing a breath in my presence). I do not need any more guidance in my FATHERLY judgement. I will not invest 16 years in raising a girl/woman to see some lowlife, who claims he "genuinely adores" her, screw up her life. Do not take 16 years as just a number Silk: calculate, what percent of your own life does this represent? Not insignificant to me, and I'm 40!

 

I'm not going to wait to see if the situation becomes "unhealthy." If the guy's lucky, he'll get off easy if I'd;

 

hesitate to pop him in the a$$ with any rifle or gun that is in reach.

 

Hope you guys are listening!

 

Oh, and by the way, this goes for my own sons too; They try pulling this sh**, and they'd better be ready for the time of their lives.

[michelle417]

Samson,

I hadn't read anything about your situation before I posted a reply. I'm sorry for the torture you must be going through with your daughter! My thing was so long ago. I know if a 20 something was after my daughter, I would be thinking of places to hide the body. (Not condoning any violence.....I said "thinking", not actually doing it. Gotta make those disclaimers these days.) I wish you all the luck with your current obstacle.

[Vivid_29]

Originally posted by Samson

Hey, LS:

 

Question: Are 20 something guys who date 12-16 year old girls pedaphiles? Are they "normal?"

 

I don't know Samson. I don't think that they would be considered pedaphiles -- desperate is more like it, knowing that he can easily influence and take advantage of a 12-16 year old little girl. These children don't know any better and I wouldn't be for it.

 

A 20 something year old guy can lust after my 12-16 year old little girl all he wants AND THAT'S IT. Once she turns 18, although I would hate it, I would have to let her go, because she is old enough to make her own choices and decisions. All I can do is advise and try and point her in the right direction.

 

~V

[meanon]

he felt things for me when i was only 16. does this make him strange? no, not at all.

 

I agree silk it doesn't make him strange. But he didn't do anything about it then - he let you grow up. That's shows real maturity.

 

Faux sorry the link annoyed you so much . It got it right for many of the countries I know including my own.

[Samson]

From the age of about 18-30 I thought of him as being a child molester too.

 

Actually, you don't sound as confused as you might think, Michelle.

 

Meanon, this guy wasn't "mature" when he was 23, and I doubt he grew any in three years, even if all he did was lurk in the background of Michelle's life, waiting to prevent her from starting a career dancing on tables.

 

But you've made me wonder:

 

If many believe it is immoral or unethical or just down-right wrong for husbands to develope strong emotional attachments to other women (any age), then why doesn't a twenty-something's lust for a 13 year old girl elicite the same indignation instead of being applauded for their "maturity?"

 

Wouldn't the lusting husband be granted the same accolade for controlling himself if we assume there is no physical contact with either situation?

[meanon]

Meanon, this guy wasn't "mature" when he was 23, and I doubt he grew any in three years, even if all he did was lurk in the background of Michelle's life, waiting to prevent her from starting a career dancing on tables.

 

I wasn't referring to Michelle I was referring to silk sword.

 

I think it's possible for a single 20 something guy to fancy a mature 16 year old girl without being abnormal, if they socialise or work together ie. they actually know one another. I don't think it's responsible to act on those feelings - there is still too much growing up to be done with peers of the same age.

 

The 20 something who fancies a 13 year old - sorry that's outside my personal tolerance limits I'd think potential paedophile.

 

Does that clarify?

[Vivid_29]

I agree silk it doesn't make him strange. But he didn't do anything about it then - he let you grow up. That's shows real maturity.

 

I agree meanon - sounds like he has morals!

 

~V

[Samson]

Wouldn't the lusting husband be granted the same accolade for controlling himself if we assume there is no physical contact with either situation?

[meanon]

Well the situations are different in that the husband is in a committed relationship and the 20 something who fancies a 16 year old is single so many would say the accolade is undeserved.

 

Actually I have no problem with my husband or myself finding people of the other sex attractive and having the odd lustful thought. It means little. A strong emotional attachment is a different matter - I would expect him not to form an emotional attachment with a woman he finds sexually attractive, a close platonic friendship I'd be fine with.

 

It's not just physical contact. A responsible 20 something would do best to steer clear of a 16 year old to avoid temptation and emotional attachment.

 

Leave aside the issue of your daughter, is it your view Samson that the 20 year old who finds a 16 year old he knows well to be sexually attractive is a paedophile?

[Samson]

Agreed: A responsible 20 something would do best to steer clear of a 16 year old to avoid temptation and emotional attachment. Naturally, after "steering clear" for a few years the 19 year old better then have the emotional maturity to handle 23 year olds.

 

And it is not my view that the 20 year old (or, frankly, any other age person) who finds a 16 year old he knows well to be sexually attractive is a paedophile. We cannot control our thoughts, only our behaviour.

 

Finally, it seems there has been some misperception about my personal circumstance. First, I've taught 13-18 year old people, begining in 1986. I've seen many relationships between 13 year old girls and males age 18+. I have NEVER SEEN a positive outcome from any of these relationships, the girl usually ends up with the damage, and it is significant.

 

Second, I would be ASTONISHED if my 18 month old daughter was dealing with this issue. I would be equally astonished if, 12 years from now, she is NOT dealing with this issue.

 

But, there will never be any question in my mind how I will deal with the issue: With EXTREME PREJUDICE.

 

So, my advice to you guys considering any more than glancing at girls age of 16 and below: Make sure their daddy has never posted on LS.