He left me.

[claraj]

Says who?

 

It is about her and her A, her M with her H, not just her H, but your perception is different from mine. This being the reason we all are allowed to post here without harassment just because we have a difference of opinion.

 

2themoon I thank you for defending me. You and dreamingoftigers are one of the few who are understanding me. I know I must change quick and while I don't like Distant, he has a point. Right now it is about my husband and what I can do for him, since I have hurt him so badly. I know what I did was wrong and I accept full responsibility for it, and I'm no longer fighting the consequences, but embracing them.

[whichwayisup]

2themoon I thank you for defending me. You and dreamingoftigers are one of the few who are understanding me. I know I must change quick and while I don't like Distant, he has a point. Right now it is about my husband and what I can do for him, since I have hurt him so badly. I know what I did was wrong and I accept full responsibility for it, and I'm no longer fighting the consequences, but embracing them.

 

This is good to hear. You have no control over the consquences, how people are going to react..All you can do is control your own reactions and do what you can to show your H remorse, your sorrow and also work on you. Take it day by day and go from there. Worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.

 

Allow your H time and space, and let him know that you are in the midst of finding a therapist. Even if you need to borrow $$ from a friend, or your mom.dad,sibling, do it.

[touhy]

Claraj,

 

Your husband sounds like one very cool dude. If I wasn't a dude myself, I'd like to date him. Please thank him for his service to our country. We sleep safely in our beds at night because of the bravery and sacrifce of men like him.

 

over,

Touhy

[Steadfast]

The posts made by 'Claraj' are too contrived and scripted. The account of meeting her husband at his parent's house read like a paragraph from a bad novel. I almost ran it through Google to see if it was lifted.

 

But I keep getting drawn in.

 

Clara, how can you say you're 'embracing the consequences of your actions' (loose paraphrase) then turn around and thank a poster for defending you? What part of your actions need defended? If you're seeking sanctuary here because you've gone public with your plight, then I can understand, but your emotional see-sawing is giving me a nose bleed.

 

If you really are on the up and up, I would encourage you (in between selling new Fords) to get started on that letter and make it a good one. After that, the ball is in your husband's court. Give him time to adjust. I personally don't think you have a clue what is needed to restore your husband's trust, and envision you throwing a tantrum at your husband's lack of understanding and patience. Until you realize all the give will have to come from you (all of it; think it over) then you have no chance.

 

Decide what you want, and mercifully make it quick. In the meantime, learn how to offer compassion to him instead of seeking it for yourself.

[2themoon&back]

What OP has done is emotional abuse plain and simple. Do you know how hard that hurts to have someone betray you like that? How difficult it is to get over?

 

Yes....

 

I can understand your desire to reach out and provide empathy, but I won't do that at the expense of the real victim. I don't view this as any different from emotionally abusing a child. It's sick, twisted, and no amount of "immaturity" makes it excusable.

 

Then we just see this differently

 

 

Your empathetic approach is perhaps what is needed here from the OP's point of view. I just caution you not to make excuses for actions that are inexcusable.

 

No need to make excuses, they maybe inexcusable, but they are forgivable in time.

 

Anyway... I've read enough of your posts to know where you are coming from. It isn't surprising to me that you feel she is entitled to this kind of behavior and that he should just put up with it.

 

 

And I have read enough of your post to know you have slightest idea where I am coming from.

 

I will take all of what you have said and consider it ....that is all I can do, I wish you would do the same.

[Distant78]

I will take all of what you have said and consider it ....that is all I can do, I wish you would do the same.

 

Why? In all of your posts on this thread you have total disregard for her husband's feelings and even say the damage she caused him, doesn't matter. If you ever had a person you loved treat you this way, you would not be here stating how a cheater is in so much pain.

[woinlove]

2themoon I thank you for defending me. You and dreamingoftigers are one of the few who are understanding me. I know I must change quick and while I don't like Distant, he has a point. Right now it is about my husband and what I can do for him, since I have hurt him so badly. I know what I did was wrong and I accept full responsibility for it, and I'm no longer fighting the consequences, but embracing them.

 

You've come a long way in just the few days you've been posting, from focussing on OM and blaming your husband's job for your affair to accepting responsibility for your own actions and realizing what you have done to your husband. That's a good start on the long, hard work you have ahead of you to figure out why you behaved as you did and how you will become someone who behaves better in the future. I don't think the chances of your marriage surviving are very high, but you need to do the work to change in any case, if you don't want to act like this again. I hope you get some professional help and I hope the same for your husband, to help him recover from the pain and betrayal.

[claraj]

You've come a long way in just the few days you've been posting, from focussing on OM and blaming your husband's job for your affair to accepting responsibility for your own actions and realizing what you have done to your husband. That's a good start on the long, hard work you have ahead of you to figure out why you behaved as you did and how you will become someone who behaves better in the future. I don't think the chances of your marriage surviving are very high, but you need to do the work to change in any case, if you don't want to act like this again. I hope you get some professional help and I hope the same for your husband, to help him recover from the pain and betrayal.

 

Thanks wo, I will. My mother will give me money for counseling on Monday so I will set it up as soon as I get it. I've been a complete selfish fool and I don't want to lose him.

[dreamingoftigers]

You really should of thought of that when you opened your legs for another man. I hope your husband does the right thing and rids you from his life. Your toxic. He deserves a real woman, not you.

 

How does this help the situation, the OP or her husband?

 

Perhaps we should all stand in a row and call her a whore so that this will all be made better?

 

Perhaps instead of her not realizing that she has been a selfish fool and doesn't want to lose her husband she should say: "too bad for him, I am a whore and that's just the way it goes, I am going to take him to the cleaners in a divorce and claim alienation of affection and act like he cheated on me and abused me from day one."

 

Because that would help, right?

Edited January 16, 2011 by dreamingoftigers
spelling

[Mad Max]

I know what I've done was wrong but he wasn't there for me a lot. He just came back from doing secret jobs for a U.S. agency for almost a year with minimal contact. I just couldn't handle the pain of being alone. I called my co-worker 30 minutes ago and told him I was sorry he got hit in his jaw but I can't do the affair no more. He said fine angrily then hung up. I don't know why some of you people are so bitter and mean. Can't you just understand my situation and have empathy?

 

 

You just justified your actions. You're only sorry you got caught. Cheaters are some of the biggest scum on Earth. That's why you're not getting empathy. 9 months it lasted!! You made a conscious decision to cheat, but also to do it many times!!

[2themoon&back]

Why? In all of your posts on this thread you have total disregard for her husband's feelings and even say the damage she caused him, doesn't matter.

 

I do not have disregard for his feelings as much as I choose to not make his feelings more important than the person (claraj’s) that choose to post here.

 

She is already aware of the fact she hurt her husband and from what she has posted she is living “in” the damage her decisions have caused her and her H, hence her pain.

 

If you ever had a person you loved treat you this way, you would not be here stating how a cheater is in so much pain.

 

IMO, by the above statement, you cannot suggest to claraj, to be accountable for her choices, when it seems to me you are not taking any responsibility for your own.

 

No matter how I have been treated in the past, it does not determine anything unless I allow it to.

 

To me it seems you would be trying to convey that … IF someone cheats on you … you are justified in your actions afterwards, i.e. choice to be bitter, hateful, or whatever you deem justifiable.

 

I believe all emotional wounds come with a process that follows them, but at some point in time one can choose to let it go or to keep wallowing in it.

 

We all have choices in all situations, usually more than one, even when we are wronged, and it is up to the wronged to decide which choice is best for them. There is not right or wrong choice, just a choice.

 

Do not use what happened to YOU, to justify your insensitivity to another person’s pain, or to say that what you offer is in anyway better than what I offer, in the way of support, all you can conclude from this is the ways are different.

 

Pain is Pain, no matter how one acquires it.

 

As far as me justifying my choice on who to support or how I go about it is not a requirement here, as long as I remain respectful. [/Quote]

 

I just prefer to see the poster as a PERSON that had an A, not as a “Cheater”.

[2themoon&back]

2themoon I thank you for defending me. You and dreamingoftigers are one of the few who are understanding me. I know I must change quick and while I don't like Distant, he has a point. Right now it is about my husband and what I can do for him, since I have hurt him so badly. I know what I did was wrong and I accept full responsibility for it, and I'm no longer fighting the consequences, but embracing them.

 

 

Claraj, I am sorry you are hurting and going through such a very real and painful experience.

 

Please understand I am not trying to defend you or your actions, just the right to have your own feelings without judgments and being berated while you are trying to figure all this out.

 

You do not need to be defended, you have the same rights here as anyone to express your feelings or opinions without harassment. IMO, this fact has gotten lost by some focusing on how you are a “Cheater”, you cheated, a fact that you know better than anyone here, you are living it. Now what is for you to decide?

 

This is where weeding through all the “YOUR A CHEATER” post has to be done and find those who are willing to support you get to where you need to be for yourself.

 

I agree you must take responsibility for all your choices, they were and are yours and it seems you are trying to do this, which is a great step. Once you understand that, you will know that all the choices from here on out are yours as well.

[Distant78]

I just prefer to see the poster as a PERSON that had an A, not as a “Cheater”.

 

It's all the same thing. His feelings now are more important than hers. Hopefully he'll follow through on the divorce talk and leave her. You obviously don't even know the amount of damage she has caused. She is not hurting from anything.

[Steadfast]

 

This is where weeding through all the “YOUR A CHEATER” post has to be done and find those who are willing to support you get to where you need to be for yourself.

 

 

This is bad advice and IMO, incorrect protocol for any advice forum, although I do see your point. You are now 'directing' the OP on which posts to read. I assume she can do that for herself. If she is to just pick the posts that support her excuses, why bother asking for help to begin with? We have no right to do this, no matter how much a response enrages us.

 

You really should of thought of that when you opened your legs for another man. I hope your husband does the right thing and rids you from his life. Your toxic. He deserves a real woman, not you.

 

How does this help the situation, the OP or her husband?

 

Perhaps we should all stand in a row and call her a whore so that this will all be made better?

 

Good point, and agreed. Although I don't like Clara's delivery, style and much of the content she's included, she is asking for help and is showing a growing remorse for her actions. We all must walk before we can run.

[Mad Max]

There was no remorse shown by the OP. As mentioned earlier, she played the victim card several times. The person being cheated on is always the victim.

[2themoon&back]

This is bad advice and IMO, incorrect protocol for any advice forum, although I do see your point. You are now 'directing' the OP on which posts to read. I assume she can do that for herself. If she is to just pick the posts that support her excuses, why bother asking for help to begin with? We have no right to do this, no matter how much a response enrages us.

 

I am in no way enraged, not at all. It seems truer that my responses enrage others because I will not bend to some unseen will or way of thinking.

 

You are correct about how an advice forum works, and she can and will do, or read any and all post she wants too and does what she wants with the advice she receives. What I have said to her is merely my opinion, not law.

 

I have no more control over what anyone does here... as I do IRL, to say that I can "direct" anything is giving me way to much credit and a huge assumption that claraj could be directed by someone else so easily and as you have pointed out she cannot be. I do not have these kinds of powers nor would I want them.

 

To suggest to claraj, not to take “post” personally is advice from my own experiences here on LS, and IMO, is sound advice indeed.

 

Any further analysis of my post is disrespectful to claraj IMO, the thread is off track and topic, if what I have to say becomes the focal point here and not what she needs to deal with her own issues, so for claraj sake please disregard what I have to say, the only person I will address hence forth will be clara.

[Steadfast]

...so for claraj sake please disregard what I have to say

 

No problem. I disregarded it before you asked.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist!

[2themoon&back]

No problem. I disregarded it before you asked.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist!

 

its cool

 

I did the same to yours ........... and a few others

 

Now claraj, I hope you get what you need.

[dreamingoftigers]

 

I never called her a whore.

(This was a generalization not directly aimed at you but over the general tone of the thread, that's why I said perhaps we should all, in hindsight, I should have collected all of the similar attitudes and multi-quoted, nothing personal Joe A.)

 

You are minimizing her actions. Did it ever come across your mind that she put this mans health at risk with STD's ?

 

Funny you should ask:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t259000/?highlight=mixed+%28but+crappy%29+feelings

 

I would love to know where I ever minimized her actions. Please quote me, please, because I have found her actions to be deplorable until she held a desire to start to work on her end of things. Doesn't mean she is not going to fix up her own issues ever.

 

There are more ramifications then emotionally scarring her husband, some of which can be health related.

 

I hear you, I am intimately familiar with the trauma and associated nightmare of adultery, having caught my father cheating on my mother last year and then shortly after catching my husband. That's why I consistently recommend EMDR to help reduce the amount/frequency that the imagery and pain comes up and bites me in the ass. That therapy is a miracle.

 

I also know that men have a hell of a time dealing with this. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, no kidding: not my worst enemy. I kid you not, there is a physician responsible for my brother's brain injury, I wouldn't wish it on her.

 

If anything, I have advocated not putting her husband through more bull**** by filing for divorce while he is already having the **** storm fly through his life. Give the guy a chance to breathe and make a decision.

 

Your entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine, I still opine she feels no real remorse for what she has done and repeatedly played the victim card here. As I have stated earlier I don't coddle cheaters. If her husband does divorce her, maybe my "harsh words" will sink in and she won't repeat her same behavior if she gets into another relationship.

 

Truly at this point, if she loses the relationship, goes through a divorce and lives with the scarlet letter, chances are your words won't be the ones that stand out to her. Of course adultery is a piss off, it is a piss off to watch and hear about, but truly if she wants to turn herself around being constantly told: "You are a ****ty person" won't get that process any further along. At the very least if she takes some responsibility and works through her own issues to become a completely empathetic spouse, she can simply validate him (if they decide that there is to be a D) and let him know that she is remorseful and that he didn't deserve that type of treatment and that she wishes him well and to have happiness. Also that she respects him and his decision whatever way it goes.

 

She's gonna get enough slings and arrows outside of this forum.

 

Hopefully one way or another they can both move on from this. It isn't coddling, it is hope that no one need suffer here beyond use. What's the point?

[Distant78]

You do have some valid points, and I definately respect your opinion and insight. You are correct that she has to live with what she did outside this forum and it is going to be a lot worse then words from internet strangers. When I mean by coddling, I mean people sympathizing with her actions. While words are sometimes taken out of context when read, I as many others got the impression there was no remorse on her part for her actions. Ultimately, when all is said and done, she has to live in her own skin. No one held a gun to her head and forced her to cheat. The true victim here is her husband, not her. I wish no one harm, anxiety, or depression and I am sorry she is feeling that way, however she brought it on herself. Her actions may very well have been a one time mistake, a nine month mistake, however like I have stated he put her husbands emotional well being, marriage, husbands health at risk so forgive me if I don't have kind words for her.

 

Agreed 100%. Not only were eternal vows broken and shytted on, his well-being has been put at risk with her cheating, and that is not good. People's lives get messed up knowing they caught a very nasty STD from their cheating partner. People can get killed over this mess. That's what I think some are missing here.

[dreamingoftigers]

Yeah showing a "growing remorse for her actions". Remorse is a basic human emotion, not one that is grown due to posts and coddling given by anonymous individuals on a interpersonal relationship forum.

 

I can honestly say that my father did not have the capacity to show remorse for his affair, at first. In the last year he has realized that he stood to lose more then half of a house and some bucks in child support. He, like most adulterers, found a way to justify the cheating and to rewrite the history of his misery to blame my mother. He also had allowed his life to carry on in such a way to give himself no joy which opened him up wide to accepting adoration from the OW. When he realized the hurt and anger it caused my mother, he still wasn't remorseful and yes he "played the victim card" better then anyone I have ever known or heard of. In fact the things my father had the nerve to say to my mother and put her through after the affair were very impressive in the way they are disgusting. In fact, even publicly.

 

He would accuse her of cheating (this is so ridiculous, I will explain later). I actually was so sickened by the way he treated her that I spat in his face and he got physical with me. We actually fought it out (he is a lot bigger then me) until my husband got in the middle and told him to stop. At that point screamed in my husband's face "WHAT'RE YOU GONNA DO?" To which my husband responded, "what do you think I am going to do?" and then it took him a bit to back off. If my mother did or said anything back he would threaten suicide. I called the police twice one week for his threats. This was a tactic he had occasionally used when I was a child to subdue her with fear. I wouldn't let him hold my child for close to a year, we don't exactly chat now either. For a long time I thought he was nothing but inhuman scum.

 

My mother had been with him for 33 years. They had 3 children together and two of them were disabled, my brother is brain-injured and lives on a hospital bed in what was my parent's living room. My mother took care of the bulk of his 24 hour care while my father worked outside the home. My mother rarely left the house, she did, however complete a degree when she had staff coverage. She also took care of my sister, she spent most of her days depressed on the couch only getting up to suction my brother's throat so that he could breathe. My father would take her for lunch almost daily and that was her time out from it all. I offered to help for six years but my father wouldn't let me in the house for most of that (he eventually told me it was because he was scared that I would convince her to leave him).

 

They hired a live-in staff member for a time but truly, my mother wouldn't have had the time for an affair, nor would getting caught by my father be something that either one of them would have survived (I am not kidding, he did try to kill me when I was younger as well). Granted my mother was an idiot for staying with him, but she was not that much of an idiot to cheat on the beast. My mother became friends with the live-in nurse. (The live-in nurse actually kept a seperate place to go home to during the day because she couldn't stand my father and couldn't quit, lest she lose her chance to immigrate to Canada). The friendship distinctly alienated my father, who took up with one of the nurse's friends.

 

To my point: When my father finally pushed too far, he realized that he was going to lose my mother, pronto. He tried the whining, pleading, begging, threatening, cold-shoulder, withholding money and just about everything else. My mother wasn't having it, she said she would go live with her mother if she had to, he could have it all, she would fight for her son and live in a one-bedroom apartment if she had to. She would go back to work (for my mother, that is like you saying you would climb Everest).

 

All my father was up for losing was my mother. And guess what? He couldn't bear the loss. He couldn't cope (big surprise). He managed to talk her into going to counseling. After the first session he was pretty depressed because although for the rest of us 2+2=4, he couldn't see how his actions had brutally hurt my mother, and how he had been essentially a monster and a lying scumbag to his family for the longest time.

 

Once he could connect his actions to everyone else's feelings and reactions, he showed signs of remorse. Remorse is not automatic if you don't think that you are doing anything and that you are 100% justified. Remorse comes when you realize that you are the dope that made the mess in the first place and you have been dumping that responsibility on everyone else.

 

If someone like my father who could find ways to justify his treatment of others for that long, I am quite sure that someone else could find themselves remorseful after less (not that this is a justification whatsoever to whomever does betray their spouse).

 

 

 

There was no remorse shown by the OP. As mentioned earlier, she played the victim card several times. The person being cheated on is always the victim.

 

There has been some remorse, just not at first, and yes, the OP clearly felt justified and therefore attacked for her actions. BUT it appears that she is having a paradigm shift and if that shift continues to the point of a healthy relational perspective, the victim card will cease to be in play by default. (Healthy thinkers don't play victim). The person cheated on is the victim 100%. Those that cheat are victims of themselves.

[claraj]

This evening he called me and asked me was I at the house. I said yes. He asked could I leave the house for a few hours. I asked him why and he took a deep breath on the phone and he said he needs to get the rest of his things out of the house and he doesn't want to see me when he's there. I could tell he was very agitated so I said sure then he hung up. I packed a bag and drove over to my mother's house to spend the night. I didn't know how long he was going to be and I don't even know if he's still at the house or not. Figured that would give him the time he needs. My fear of him leaving has just rose 10 times more than what I originally felt. I have felt the urge to go over there earlier and try to convince him to not do what he's doing but I knew that would only make him angrier. I just want to show him I'm trying to change. I see some of you are constantly saying I don't feel remorse or hurt but I do. This does hurt really bad. I want to be there to hold him and to cry with him. I don't want to lose him.

[Distant78]

This evening he called me and asked me was I at the house. I said yes. He asked could I leave the house for a few hours. I asked him why and he took a deep breath on the phone and he said he needs to get the rest of his things out of the house and he doesn't want to see me when he's there. I could tell he was very agitated so I said sure then he hung up. I packed a bag and drove over to my mother's house to spend the night. I didn't know how long he was going to be and I don't even know if he's still at the house or not. Figured that would give him the time he needs. My fear of him leaving has just rose 10 times more than what I originally felt. I have felt the urge to go over there earlier and try to convince him to not do what he's doing but I knew that would only make him angrier. I just want to show him I'm trying to change. I see some of you are constantly saying I don't feel remorse or hurt but I do. This does hurt really bad. I want to be there to hold him and to cry with him. I don't want to lose him.

 

Seems like he's really serious about leaving you. Just keep giving him his space and do what he says with no protest. If he does leave you, you shall learn from this experience, which is to never ever cheat in any way, shape or form.

[fltc]

I don't want to lose him.

 

I can't imagine anything else could possibly happen based on your description of the event. He'll NEVER forget, the images will haunt him the rest of his life and seeing you will only bring them back more clearly.

 

I'm sorry for both of you but I cannot believe this is fixable, let him go, you'll both be better off, believe it or not.

[whichwayisup]

I have to be honest, it doesn't look good. Some things are unforgivable, and your H seems like (going by what he's said and done) he'll never get past this, nor does he want to. He has that right, as much as you may want to try to save the marriage, he may not want to. It's his decision, it's out of your hands.

 

Right now I suggest you take care of you, get that counselling appointment and go from there.