Why Won't My Divorced G/F Fight for Me?

[blinky101]

Need some advice since I've exhausted my local resources. I'm a professional, single male (never married) in mid 40's and have been dating a divorced woman (similar age) with 2 young children for nearly 2 years. I love her deeply and look at her kids as my own. Her ex is a friendly guy, but a complete deadbeat (no support - emotional for kids, nor financial for any of them). I don't monitor how much $ I spend on them, nor the amount of time I spend with her kids. Basically, I'll do anything to help them and give them some of the things they may not otherwise have - my time, my emotional support - anything. It's a close to a family as it gets without actually being one.

 

Her family loves me, I get along with her ex, but her ex MIL is extremely jealous because of what I do for the kids and her former daughter-in-law - which has made things very difficult and has been the *only* source of contention in our relationship, but it's significant. I get along with everyone, but her ex MIL continues to invite her son, the kids, my G/F and even her family to events, functions, holidays, their vacation home, etc. - but those are always off-limits to me. OTOH, I've been open and inclusive to *everyone* on all sides, but the fact that I'm excluded and my G/F won't "fight" for me to be included in her ex-in laws events is almost at a point that's unbearable. I understand the need for her to maintain that relationship for her children (the grandchildren) and possibly even for herself and I place no conditions on our relationship.

 

I'm not a jealous man, but this is really starting to piss me off that my G/F won't stand up to her ex MIL and tell her that she wants me around .... or maybe she doesn't want me in that part of her life.

 

Any divorced peeps or experts out there that can enlighten me? I'm truly lost and at a breaking point. I feel like I've got only a slice of the pie under these continuing circumstances.

[carhill]

Hi and welcome to LS

 

How long was your lady single (meaning legally divorced) before you began dating her?

 

Do you and your GF live separately? Since her exH is apparently a deadbeat, how is that going for her?

 

How are things with your GF's family, meaning blood family? They 'love' you, you say. Do they include you in all of their family events? How does that go?

 

Superficially, since there are children involved, your GF will necessarily do things with the children's paternal grandparents and extended family. Those people are not required to be your friends or be friendly to you. It surely would be nice if they were. Sometimes you have to pick your battles. I personally wouldn't push this, presuming your interactions with your GF's blood family are positive and loving. That's the important part, IMO.

 

Good luck

[You Go Girl]

I'd like to know too how long you have been involved with her. If your romance with her started before she was divorced, then I can understand her MIL thinking that you had something to do with the demise of that marriage.

One thing though that I notice is that she seems to spend a lot of time with that family that is no longer her family. Did she replace her own family with her ex's?

How often does she see them? The MIL, not the exh. Extended spending of time together with the ex-family after divorce I find odd, but that's me, and others obviously from this post feel differently--your gf and her MIL.

Is this a monthly thing? Weekly? Vacations--days at a time sometimes?

 

I agree with you that when you hold the position of a regular spouse/father even if you don't hold the legal rights, it seems only fair that you would be treated as such.

What has your gf said when you brought this up?

[blinky101]

Hi and welcome to LS

 

How long was your lady single (meaning legally divorced) before you began dating her?

 

Do you and your GF live separately? Since her exH is apparently a deadbeat, how is that going for her?

 

How are things with your GF's family, meaning blood family? They 'love' you, you say. Do they include you in all of their family events? How does that go?

 

Superficially, since there are children involved, your GF will necessarily do things with the children's paternal grandparents and extended family. Those people are not required to be your friends or be friendly to you. It surely would be nice if they were. Sometimes you have to pick your battles. I personally wouldn't push this, presuming your interactions with your GF's blood family are positive and loving. That's the important part, IMO.

 

Good luck

 

Thanks. She's been divorced for just shy of 4 years, so a couple before we started dating. I don't live with her and the kids, be we're logistically very close and spend most of our time together. The ex needs to spend time with the kids, but doesn't have the appropriate digs, so he takes the kids out, then lands back at her place for a while a couple of times a week, which I really have no problem with - good for the kids and peace of mind for mom. Yes, her "blood" family loves me and includes me in everything.

 

I'd like to know too how long you have been involved with her. If your romance with her started before she was divorced, then I can understand her MIL thinking that you had something to do with the demise of that marriage.

One thing though that I notice is that she seems to spend a lot of time with that family that is no longer her family. Did she replace her own family with her ex's?

How often does she see them? The MIL, not the exh. Extended spending of time together with the ex-family after divorce I find odd, but that's me, and others obviously from this post feel differently--your gf and her MIL.

Is this a monthly thing? Weekly? Vacations--days at a time sometimes?

 

I agree with you that when you hold the position of a regular spouse/father even if you don't hold the legal rights, it seems only fair that you would be treated as such.

What has your gf said when you brought this up?

 

No, not at all. She had a couple of relationships after separation and divorce with other men before me. She hasn't replaced her family with his, but his mother certainly has a lot of influence over her and wants her son back together with my g/f - and has made every attempt she can to push that agenda, including planning trips for just them (kids, mom and dad). Their time together could be weekly, but at least monthly, all family gatherings, vacations, etc. and even holidays - which is the real tricky one.

 

As for me bringing it up, I "politely" tell her that IMO, the intensity and constraints of that relationship are holding her back from moving on emotionally. She disagrees, doesn't want to deal with it and pretty much tells me to roll with it. The issue is that I have no problem with the dad coming around my place and even try to include him / his parents in things with the kids when we've got them - but it doesn't work the other way around. She doesn't want to "miss" anything happening with the kids when they're not with her, so she goes and I'm odd man out. I have no problem being inclusive at all, but I'm tired of it being exclusive on the other side.

[carhill]

Of all the mutual socialization going on, what percentage would you say you are excluded from? By that I mean where your GF and her children are included but you are excluded.

 

'Honey, I understand the circumstances but I often feel left out of things and sometimes feel unappreciated for the efforts I make to be civil to a family which apparently doesn't like me or me being with you. How do you feel about that?'

 

OP, edited to add that, instead of analyzing her actions and forming and communicating opinions about how she's feeling, not feeling, handling, moving on, etc, tell her how *you* feel.

Edited January 12, 2011 by carhill

[You Go Girl]

No, not at all. She had a couple of relationships after separation and divorce with other men before me. She hasn't replaced her family with his, but his mother certainly has a lot of influence over her and wants her son back together with my g/f - and has made every attempt she can to push that agenda, including planning trips for just them (kids, mom and dad). Their time together could be weekly, but at least monthly, all family gatherings, vacations, etc. and even holidays - which is the real tricky one.

 

As for me bringing it up, I "politely" tell her that IMO, the intensity and constraints of that relationship are holding her back from moving on emotionally. She disagrees, doesn't want to deal with it and pretty much tells me to roll with it. The issue is that I have no problem with the dad coming around my place and even try to include him / his parents in things with the kids when we've got them - but it doesn't work the other way around. She doesn't want to "miss" anything happening with the kids when they're not with her, so she goes and I'm odd man out. I have no problem being inclusive at all, but I'm tired of it being exclusive on the other side.

 

Well there you go. Ex MIL has an agenda, and she's patient. She'll wait for all of eternity. Likes the mother of her grandchildren. Feels badly about her son dropping the ball and being somewhat of a deadbeat.

 

Thing is, your relationship is with your gf, and she's not listening to you nor hearing your feelings. Disregarding them even. Yeah, make those feelings clearer. You're not there for financial help or amusement, you're a person who wants to feel a part of things if this relationship is going anywhere serious long-term.

An ex MIL can't bring two people back together again. But she can wear you down, and she can pamper her ex DIL.

How long will you be willing to be treated as less than a full partner? Here's a question for you--do you want to be a full partner? Would your gf still exclude you if you married her?

And definitely don't take that as a reason to pop the question.

[blinky101]

First, thank you both for the insight - it's very much appreciated!

 

Of all the mutual socialization going on, what percentage would you say you are excluded from? By that I mean where your GF and her children are included but you are excluded.

 

'Honey, I understand the circumstances but I often feel left out of things and sometimes feel unappreciated for the efforts I make to be civil to a family which apparently doesn't like me or me being with you. How do you feel about that?'

 

OP, edited to add that, instead of analyzing her actions and forming and communicating opinions about how she's feeling, not feeling, handling, moving on, etc, tell her how *you* feel.

 

Hard to pin down percentages, but when its her family, I'm in 100% of the time (as with mine). When it's the ex MIL, or the ex's side, it's zero. Met them all a number of times at the ballfield, other functions not at their place(s), etc. - but never get invited to their vacation home with the kids, etc. I'm obviously a threat in her mind.

 

Great pickup on the "analyzation" comment - that's spooky since it's come up recently. I told her at the holidays how I feel and her own parents told her they don't blame me for feeling that way. Tough when the Ex Mil exerts influence for exclusiveness on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day.

 

Well there you go. Ex MIL has an agenda, and she's patient. She'll wait for all of eternity. Likes the mother of her grandchildren. Feels badly about her son dropping the ball and being somewhat of a deadbeat.

 

Thing is, your relationship is with your gf, and she's not listening to you nor hearing your feelings. Disregarding them even. Yeah, make those feelings clearer. You're not there for financial help or amusement, you're a person who wants to feel a part of things if this relationship is going anywhere serious long-term.

An ex MIL can't bring two people back together again. But she can wear you down, and she can pamper her ex DIL.

How long will you be willing to be treated as less than a full partner? Here's a question for you--do you want to be a full partner? Would your gf still exclude you if you married her?

And definitely don't take that as a reason to pop the question.

 

Geezus, this is spot on. I expressed my desire to spend the rest of my life with her and the kids early on - maybe a little too early, and she got spooked (which I understand after all she went through). So we dialed things back a little. Short of living together, we probably see more of each other and spend time with her kids more than most families, so my desire to be a full partner has been there all along. If we married, I'd have to think things would change - they'd have to for this to work for me. I don't need to go to every event on their side and I don't need them to even like me - but I have to know that she's looking out for me the way I look out for her best interests and is willing to tell her ex MIL that I'm a part of her life, so get used to it - hence the thread title.

 

 

As an example of what I'm dealing with, last year, I suggested we take the kids on a trip, get a large enough place for the ex so he's not left out of that experience with the kids - and visit her ex MIL and FIL while we're there. That didn't fly because she felt pressure from the ex MIL and feels bad for the dad because he can't afford it, etc. Recently, the ex MIL bought airfare for the grandkids, my g/f and of course, her son - so they're all heading on vacation together to spend a week with the ex MIL in warmer climates.

 

Never did I think I'd ever see something like this, never mind living it.

[carhill]

Your GF could have politely declined MIL's kind invitation, and the grandchildren, their father and she could have had a nice week together and you and your GF could have had some 'us' time together. That's how a *team* works.

 

Don't be afraid to speak up and assert your wants and needs. BTDT, got the nice divorce to prove it. Better to assert firm boundaries than be a doormat. Like I said prior, pick your battles, and wanting quality time with your GF is one of those battles. She doesn't need to be going on vacation with her ex, kids or not. That's my opinion.

[You Go Girl]

YUCK!

This ex MIL has the situation wrapped around her pinky finger, and your gf is completely ok with that.

The latter half of that sentence is the problem.

You offer a vacation for her and her kids and she declines for what reasons?

Then she accepts a different one with you excluded?

 

Your gf has no loyalty to you. She is loyal to her ex MIL, and she is even loyal to her ex Husband! Worrying about his feelings if he couldn't afford to take a trip with all of you?

And stop offering to take the exh on any trips. Geesh. He doesn't belong with the 4 of you.

Problem is, this is a biggie, and I'm wondering if you belong with her.

 

Have a talk about this loyalty. You need to know exactly where she stands. If her actions speak alone, then she's already given you that answer. A talk might just wake her up though, to your truth here.

 

Otherwise, sadly, you might cut your losses and run. I think this is a dealbreaker myself. I think the situation wouldn't change if you were married. I'll tell ya what though--I'm betting the gf wouldn't marry you BECAUSE of how the ex MIL would react! Because the trips together would end! Because her ex MIL would be angry with her!

She hasn't moved on, she's still completely a member of his family.

 

Your gf might feel the normal reasons for being hesitant to be married again. Your gf might also be using you. You walked into her life and offered to take care of her, much like her MIL still does. Your gf sure has people offering up the goodies, doesn't she? She's a lucky girl with so many vacation offerings that she can turn down some.

 

Sounds like the only marriage here anytime soon is between the ex MIL and your gf.

Feeling a little fiesty today, take what you like and leave the rest.

[alexandria35]

Well let me preface this by saying I'm not married or divorced so maybe I'm not qualified to answer but I was a single mother and thought I might offer another point of view.

 

As I said I was a very young single mother of two boys, their father had minimal involvement (his choice) and we were quite poor. My stepfathers mother was very much involved with my children but she had nothing but disdain for me. She would put me down and insult me to my face. She was seriously cruel in the things that she would say and the way she would behave towards me. I was never disrespectful to her and I never stood up to her. People didn't understand why I would put up with her. Well it was simple really....She was good to my kids. She would take them on vacations, buy them clothes, see that they had school supplies..she even bought them their first bikes. She did lots of things for them that I couldn't do and since my kids liked her I decided to suck it up and swallow my pride. There was always underlying feelings of guilt when it came to my kids. I felt like they deserved so much better than what I had to offer them so damned if I was going to stand in the way of their happiness.

 

Is your gf dealing with guilt? Was she the one who left her husband and could she still be feeling guilt for breaking up the family. I totally understand your side and your feelings regarding this matter. She is not respecting you or listening to you, but I wonder how much of this is motivated by her desire to make her kids feel like they still have a happy normal family.

 

Usually a divorce means that the family dynamics have to change and the kids have to adapt to a new reality, such as outings with just dad and his family where mom doesn't attend and vice versa, and especially seperate vacations. Sounds like your your girlfriend is loathe to make this transition, possibly out of a strong desire to protect the life that her children expect. Not such a bad thing, except for that you are not being taken into consideration. When you speak to her about this what does she say? Does she show any signs of understanding how you feel at all? It sounds like you are more than fair and accomadating to her needs and her childrens needs, so it's time that she start considering your needs.

[blinky101]

Once again, thank you all for the thoughtful input and insight!

 

Your GF could have politely declined MIL's kind invitation, and the grandchildren, their father and she could have had a nice week together and you and your GF could have had some 'us' time together. That's how a *team* works.

 

Couldn't agree more. The MIL should have asked her son if he wanted to bring a friend, rather than asking her ex DIL....and my g/f should have done precisely what you note.

 

Don't be afraid to speak up and assert your wants and needs. BTDT, got the nice divorce to prove it. Better to assert firm boundaries than be a doormat. Like I said prior, pick your battles, and wanting quality time with your GF is one of those battles. She doesn't need to be going on vacation with her ex, kids or not. That's my opinion.

 

I agree - sometimes there's so much crap to pick from, I have a hard time choosing the battle and end up saying nothing

 

YUCK!

This ex MIL has the situation wrapped around her pinky finger, and your gf is completely ok with that.

The latter half of that sentence is the problem.

You offer a vacation for her and her kids and she declines for what reasons?

Then she accepts a different one with you excluded?

 

Your gf has no loyalty to you. She is loyal to her ex MIL, and she is even loyal to her ex Husband! Worrying about his feelings if he couldn't afford to take a trip with all of you?

And stop offering to take the exh on any trips. Geesh. He doesn't belong with the 4 of you.

Problem is, this is a biggie, and I'm wondering if you belong with her.

 

Have a talk about this loyalty. You need to know exactly where she stands. If her actions speak alone, then she's already given you that answer. A talk might just wake her up though, to your truth here.

 

Otherwise, sadly, you might cut your losses and run. I think this is a dealbreaker myself. I think the situation wouldn't change if you were married. I'll tell ya what though--I'm betting the gf wouldn't marry you BECAUSE of how the ex MIL would react! Because the trips together would end! Because her ex MIL would be angry with her!

She hasn't moved on, she's still completely a member of his family.

 

Your gf might feel the normal reasons for being hesitant to be married again. Your gf might also be using you. You walked into her life and offered to take care of her, much like her MIL still does. Your gf sure has people offering up the goodies, doesn't she? She's a lucky girl with so many vacation offerings that she can turn down some.

 

Sounds like the only marriage here anytime soon is between the ex MIL and your gf.

Feeling a little fiesty today, take what you like and leave the rest.

 

Well, I've certainly pondered everything you stated at one point or another - and most of my friends have stated the same (obviously) - and there's nothing wrong with "feisty"!

 

She states that she'll feel guilty and be stressed out by accepting that level of generosity from me. I ask her why it's OK from the ex MIL and she says they're the grandparents, so its different. I'm sure you can figure what my next question was. Friggen merry go round.

 

Well let me preface this by saying I'm not married or divorced so maybe I'm not qualified to answer but I was a single mother and thought I might offer another point of view.

 

As I said I was a very young single mother of two boys, their father had minimal involvement (his choice) and we were quite poor. My stepfathers mother was very much involved with my children but she had nothing but disdain for me. She would put me down and insult me to my face. She was seriously cruel in the things that she would say and the way she would behave towards me. I was never disrespectful to her and I never stood up to her. People didn't understand why I would put up with her. Well it was simple really....She was good to my kids. She would take them on vacations, buy them clothes, see that they had school supplies..she even bought them their first bikes. She did lots of things for them that I couldn't do and since my kids liked her I decided to suck it up and swallow my pride. There was always underlying feelings of guilt when it came to my kids. I felt like they deserved so much better than what I had to offer them so damned if I was going to stand in the way of their happiness.

 

Is your gf dealing with guilt? Was she the one who left her husband and could she still be feeling guilt for breaking up the family. I totally understand your side and your feelings regarding this matter. She is not respecting you or listening to you, but I wonder how much of this is motivated by her desire to make her kids feel like they still have a happy normal family.

 

Wow. Lots of similarities here. She doesn't go out to lunch or have tea with the MIL and has definately had issues with her, but they're still very friendly (obviously). She's definately dealing with guilt and yes, she pulled the plug and constantly wonders if that is what's best for the kids. She knows the answer is "yes", but you know the drill. I'm much closer to the kids than the dad, which makes this even more difficult for me to deal with. I spend more time with them, give them more emotional support, etc. than the father - and they're noticeably more comfortable with me than the dad (to everyone).

 

I've never put so much thought into a relationship before, essentially putting myself in her position and *trying* to understand what she dealt with and continues to deal with and how that affects her decision-making process. On one hand, I look at her life and think it's unnecessarily complicated - but then if you look at what she's been through, consider all the demands from (ex)family, thought of getting back into another long-term committed relationship, possibly outfall if things don't work out, etc. - it's a real mind-bender.

[phillyfan]

Need some advice since I've exhausted my local resources. I'm a professional, single male (never married) in mid 40's and have been dating a divorced woman (similar age) with 2 young children for nearly 2 years. I love her deeply and look at her kids as my own. Her ex is a friendly guy, but a complete deadbeat (no support - emotional for kids, nor financial for any of them). I don't monitor how much $ I spend on them, nor the amount of time I spend with her kids. Basically, I'll do anything to help them and give them some of the things they may not otherwise have - my time, my emotional support - anything. It's a close to a family as it gets without actually being one.

 

Her family loves me, I get along with her ex, but her ex MIL is extremely jealous because of what I do for the kids and her former daughter-in-law - which has made things very difficult and has been the *only* source of contention in our relationship, but it's significant. I get along with everyone, but her ex MIL continues to invite her son, the kids, my G/F and even her family to events, functions, holidays, their vacation home, etc. - but those are always off-limits to me. OTOH, I've been open and inclusive to *everyone* on all sides, but the fact that I'm excluded and my G/F won't "fight" for me to be included in her ex-in laws events is almost at a point that's unbearable. I understand the need for her to maintain that relationship for her children (the grandchildren) and possibly even for herself and I place no conditions on our relationship.

 

I'm not a jealous man, but this is really starting to piss me off that my G/F won't stand up to her ex MIL and tell her that she wants me around .... or maybe she doesn't want me in that part of her life.

 

Any divorced peeps or experts out there that can enlighten me? I'm truly lost and at a breaking point. I feel like I've got only a slice of the pie under these continuing circumstances.

 

Dude she isnt as into u as u are into her. Sorry it sucks I know but move on, find some woman that sees what a great dude u are.

[PortuguesePrincess80]

I would be curious to know how old the children are. Granted you did say younger... so I'm thinking 4,5,6ish? I believe there will come a time when she will be able to let her kids go alone to their grandparents. But I also think she should at least decline most of these events in consideration of you! Especially the ones that involve her the kids and the ex only! There is absolutely no need for that..especially when you get along with the guy!

 

I will take into consideration that you 2 do not live together or have any children together either. I believe that would change the dynamics in your relationship. But taking a vacation with the ex..the kids and the ex inlaws? Not cool! I don't understand her mindset...but I don't think she really understands how good she really has it. Finding a boyfriend whose more of a father than the biological father is something she should be really grateful to you for...but she's not! Very mind-boggling to say the least! I would be very wary of what her intentions are...sounds like a bit of head games to me.

[blinky101]

I would be curious to know how old the children are. Granted you did say younger... so I'm thinking 4,5,6ish? I believe there will come a time when she will be able to let her kids go alone to their grandparents. But I also think she should at least decline most of these events in consideration of you! Especially the ones that involve her the kids and the ex only! There is absolutely no need for that..especially when you get along with the guy!

 

Yes on the ages - boy and a girl, 5 and 7. They do go alone to their grandparents, except holidays, trips, Camp Exmil in summer, etc. - those are off-limits to yours truly but she wants to be involved because she says she's afraid of "missing out" on anything with the kids. Upcoming weeklong trip to FL included (mom, dad, kids, exIL's). It's like the family's still together and it's got to be confusing the hell out of the kids.

 

I will take into consideration that you 2 do not live together or have any children together either. I believe that would change the dynamics in your relationship. But taking a vacation with the ex..the kids and the ex inlaws? Not cool! I don't understand her mindset...but I don't think she really understands how good she really has it. Finding a boyfriend whose more of a father than the biological father is something she should be really grateful to you for...but she's not! Very mind-boggling to say the least! I would be very wary of what her intentions are...sounds like a bit of head games to me.

 

Correct. I have no children of my own (always doted on nieces, nephews, friends kids, etc.) and we don't live together, but we're in very close proximity to each other. Friends and family (hers and mine) kid about "my family" because if you didn't know otherwise, you'd figure we were a family. I help out with the kids a lot - and I do mean a lot. When I got into this (after about a month), I promised myself I would respect this single mom and give her everything I had (particularly emotionally), in large part due to the kids - I mean no second thoughts about previous relationships, no inappropriate conversations, dialogue or situations with former g/f's - I mean nothing but 100% dedication and devotion. I did this for the first time in my life and it's helped me to truly focus in on what is important in a relationship and how to make one work. Unfortunately, it takes both sides doing the same for one to work

 

Life's funny. When she talks about what she wants for herself and the kids in life, I can help her achieve all of it. Actually, I could *give* it all to them. I say "help" because she's very independent and wants to do some things on her own - which I respect.

 

Why she won't go make her own new life with the kids and leave the ex-situation behind her is beyond me. Love her dearly and she's a loving mom and all, but I guess she's not emotionally there yet - and maybe she never will be.

[Secret Friend]

Greetings,

 

Your situation is sad. And I understand how you feel.

 

However, the man was the one who was designed to pursue the woman. Not the woman to pursue a man.

 

Therefore, you are to be the one letting her know how you feel. Pursue her. Make an appearance at one of those events and give her love and show her that you are there for her and because you want to support her. Make a scene if front of people to show you love for her. I am not saying to make a fool out of yourself, but if you really want to be with this woman - follow your heart. You are not "too old" to have a beautiful love story. And a woman is not fully satisfied by the man unless she is pursued by him.

 

Let her know how much she matters to you and maybe then she will value your love enough to make you a priority in her life. But it has to start with you. You are supposed to be the example for her. A wife reflects her husband, and if you want her to be your wife some day then start being faithful in such ways right now.

 

Now, if after you do these things she is still not appreciating you then you need to move on my friend. She is not the one at that point. And if you dont have peace about pursuing her even now - then she is not the one even as we speak. Love drives you.

 

Wish you the best!

 

Secret Friend