After 5 year Affair, multiple attempts at NC, Depression.....SUCCESS!!!!

[KismetGirl]

Awesome, KG! I wish you lots of happiness.

 

 

Sweetpea....I really like you're quote ;-) It's very...very....very accurate and people should really keep it in mind. It would help them accept things sometimes perhaps.

[KismetGirl]

OK, so it has seemed that a common question I'm getting is if Michael knows about MM.

 

To answer all your questions....YES. I have tried to be nothing but honest with Michael from day one.

 

I told him I had an affair, that I was the OW, that it lasted for many years, and I even told him where I met MM, and further, that I still speak to him sometimes but that it has become a friendship and there is nothing else going on and that I have no desire for him anymore now that I'm with Michael. I am sincere in all those statements.

 

Michael has accepted that, so far. He has not asked me to refrain from speaking to MM or being friendly with him. I'm sure he wouldn't want MM, like, coming over or something, but Im not letting him come over anyway. It's more of a friendly communication now, maybe we get a drink after work with friends, but that's it right now.

 

Michael has, by all accounts, been very understanding and glad Im honest with him. He doesn't judge me , or hold that past against me , not even a little bit, so there's nothing to hide. He knows I have many close male friends, and I know he has many close female friends, but we are both giving each other trust that those people remain nothing more than friends.

 

We are still in a "honeymoon" phase, that is true, in which we are gaga over each other and don't want anyone else anyway, but the trust factor has to be there regardless for this relationship to work so that's what we're going.

 

I like that he isn't a jealous freak. I mean, don't get me wrong, he jokes a bit about being jealous when I tell him im hanging out with guys, but i think its mostly because he's far from me right now and just wishes he were here in general. He's said he trusts me....and I trust him....

 

Maybe I should cut off all ties with MM, but truth be told, we dont see each other very often right now anyway. Sporadic phone calls to catch up and say hello, and maybe once a month we get together after work or class for him and grab a bite to eat at a diner before going home. Nothing crazy.

 

I think the way it is is ok for now. MM is not the type to go crazy with jealousy and try to ruin something or me, trust me. He's much more....what's the word....passive. So that's not a worry for me.

 

Let me know if you have other questions, but yeah, Michael knows about MM, he knows about my affair, and that we still occasionally speak, and he's ok with it :-) I think I found a real keeper here ;-)

[jlola]

 

I will say I learned a ton from this affair. I really did. I learned A LOT about how men think and feel in relationships, and hope to avoid the mistakes his wife and he have made in their relationship in my own.

 

QUOTE]

 

 

What have you learned about affairs and how men think> How xan you avoid making mistakes he and his wife have made?

 

I have learned a man's emotonal maturity goes a long way in whether he will have an affair or not. A man who expects a woman to make him happy and fulfill his life may have a bad wake-up call nafter the honeymoon period.

 

I have a friend who'se wife was cheating. they went to therapy for 2 years, but he could not get past the infidelity and they divorced. A couple of years later he ended upo having an affair with a MW. He fell in love with her. They still speak and are friends. I was not alright with that and decided not to date his seriously though he has been still trying after over a year to get my attention again.

 

It seems to me he is immature. He was not able to forgive his wife. Yet he was able to do disrespect another man after the pain he went through. He gave a million and one excuses why his xOW cheated. But ultimately they were all selfish reasons. then he would talk about what a great person she was. Why was his ex not also a wonderful person? Because he is sensitive to something done to him. But insensitive when the same action is done to others.

 

I think there are good men out there. Self awareness,selflessness,character and maturity are the qualities that make up a goog man who most likely will be faithful.

 

I don't care if a person has only had one affair. It takes a certain lack of respect and character to lie to the very person who sleeps in your bed and had yiur children every night for years.While you continue to betray them behind their back. How someone can do that for so long just boggles my mind. I feel guilty even if I tell a small lie to a person. If a guy asked me out and I am not interested I will usually say I already have a boyfriend so I will not hurt feelings by simply saying no. But even then it is uncomfortable and I make a quick get-away. Lying is really bad for the soul. A long-term liar has no soul.

 

 

That is why it is great you and Michael have begun a relationship with integrity and honesty. I am sutre if you found out hecontinuously lied to you about something you felt showed a lack of respect to you and your feelings you too would wonder how he can do so longterm.

[Brokenlady]

KG,

I'm thrilled for you. Thank you for sharing the update. I think many of us get dragged down by feeling like we'll never be happy, never find real love after MM. But, humans are famously bad at predicting our emotional futures because we apply how we feel currently to our projections. As I once read - it is hard to imagine what a marshmallow tastes like when you are chewing on liver. I'm glad you finally got your marshmallow

 

It seems that in your case, and with others I know IRL, that the lingering hope of things somehow working out with a MM or SM doesn't seem to fully go away until it is replaced by someone else. It is a really hard leap of faith to take on one's own - to completely cut off MM or SM and just be completely alone. With this kind of "transition", I fear about the shadow being cast over the new relationship. Please let us know how things go.

[jthorne]

If you have any respect for Michael, you would cut off all contact with MM.

 

Good luck!

[GreenEyedLady]

KG: CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

 

I am so very happy that you found someone who you connect with emotionally and sexually!

 

I am also going to caution you about contact/friendship with MM. First what friend doesn't contact you for seventeen months and then shows up for a sack session? NOT a true friend. He is NOT your friend. He is your fallback.

 

It seems like you and Michael are very compatible and even in love. I think you should put yourself in his place for a minute or at least imagine as if the situation were reversed. He has had an A for over 6 years with someone who didn't leave because she doesn't want to "ruin" her life not that she doesn't love him anymore. And he has contact with this woman even going for drinks and at work and you are hours away. How would you feel?

 

I think you are on a very slippery slope with trying to be friends with MM. Enough so that it could ruin what could be the best R of your life. What if you get in a fight and go for drinks with MM, drink too much, are sad and he ends up back at your place?

 

Do you see where I'm going with this?

 

If Michael is the one you are choosing, you really should cut ALL ties with XMM. He doesn't even deserve your friendship after what he has done.

 

Of course you will do what you want to do. I just want you to be happy and so many fow want to be friends with their MM but there's a reason it's not possible. It's so easy to feel those same feelings and be back to square one. And you feel those feelings with someone available and who you seem to be almost head over heels for. XMM cares about XMM. Not about KG being happy and moving on. If you continue contact with him, who knows what he'd stoop to?

 

Cut the tie forever, for reals, and give Michael your 100%.

 

Sorry to seem like a downer, I really am happy you found someone special.

 

GEL

[whichwayisup]

Maybe I should cut off all ties with MM, but truth be told, we dont see each other very often right now anyway. Sporadic phone calls to catch up and say hello, and maybe once a month we get together after work or class for him and grab a bite to eat at a diner before going home. Nothing crazy.

 

Let it die a natural death. You don't need to nurture a friendship with the exMM (start calling him that, he's not your MM anymore), keep it professional and keep your private life, private. No need to share details, or talk to him on that level. Honestly, in the long run, I think you won't want exMM as a friend. Even more so if he doesn't or can't respect your wishes, (meaning if he tests you, flirts with you, tries to woo you back etc) SET boundries with him now. Be distant and detached. No more personal conversations, you don't need to hear that he is jealous, or misses you and what you two had together. Life goes on!

 

If Michael is the one you are choosing, you really should cut ALL ties with XMM. He doesn't even deserve your friendship after what he has done.

I completely agree with GEL. ExMM can bring no good into your life.

 

 

Again, congrats to you and your new bf. Have fun!

[KismetGirl]

you guys are probably right about cutting EX-MM ( ;-) ) off. It seemed trivial to me seeing as how Michael didn't seem to care much, but I'm wondering if maybe he hasn't said much because he doesn't want to seem like a controlling bf and to prove he can trust me. I suppose if I knew he was still friendly with an ex-MW that he was having an affair with for six years and that she still cared for him I'd probably hate it, that is true. I would still trust him that he wouldn't cheat on me to be honest, but it would sit uneasy with me.

 

Michael hung out with an ex of sorts (not a girlfriend, but a girl I know he was involved with at least physically when he lived here) while he was here last time. She happens to still be a part of the large group of people he maintains as friends in this city, so she's usually around on outings when he's in town. They had lunch one day he was here last, which he told me about ahead of time and I didn't mind as I had to be at work myself that day so I couldn't see him, and then hung out in a group with other people, so it's not like they spent all that time alone, it was in a group, but still I suppose I wasn't particularly thrilled with it. But again, I myself didn't want to seem like the distrustful , jealous girlfriend so I didn't say anything. I am not in the habit of forbidding people to speak with others, and I know he is the type who generally maintains friendly relationships with ex-es. I know he doesn't like her anymore, but it's apparent she is still into him, and while I trust he wants nothing to do with her romantically at all, I can see where you are all coming from with cutting off communication with exMM entirely.

 

Perhaps I am letting it die a slow death in some way anyway. In the last month or two I've seen MM once for a few moments when he gave me a ride home after work (did not come upstairs obviously, I jumped out of the car with a platonic thank you and hug), and he called me around the holidays to say happy new year and etc, but that's about it. He asks me how things are going with Michael, and he's otherwise kept his distance.

 

Perhaps next time he calls I'll tell him we can't speak anymore. I don't know. I've never had this type of situation before, let's be honest, and I myself tend to keep friendly communication with my exes in general so it's weird for me to tell someone who I am otherwise getting along with to bugger off.

 

I think, perhaps, what I might do is speak to Michael about it more intently. He and I have a great open line of communication, we really can speak about anything so far it seems, so I see no reason why I can't ask him to honestly tell me what he prefers I'd do and/or how he feels about. Maybe I'll go from there while I think about this in general, but in the meantime Im not seeing exMM anyway so it's not all terrible.

 

This could be a good thing. I've never dated a single man with whom I had this kind of connection before (part of the reason I was stuck in the A so long anyway) and its both thrilling and a bit scary at times.

Edited January 17, 2011 by KismetGirl

[fooled once]

KG - VERY happy for you!!

 

I remember Dday and how you were adamant that you would never love anyone again and all that ... and I remember telling you that YOU WILL love again one day, IF you let yourself.... and now you have !!!

 

I am also glad you have been truthful with Michael. I was truthful with my H when we started dating about my prior affair.

 

Like you, he didn't judge me. He accepted me, faults and all.

 

 

BUT, he didn't want him sniffing around me, calling me, etc. I think Michael is wanting YOU to break it off - FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL - without him telling you to I think it is a show of respect to Michael for you to stop the 'friendship' with xMM. It isn't a friendship - just like GEL said - he came sniffing around and got a booty call.

 

Tell xMM that you are closing that chapter of your life - and MEAN it.

 

Do not leave him hanging in the background for an ego boost FOR YOU, should things not work out with Michael. EVEN if they don't work out with Michael, you now know you WILL find someone else; that you have the capacity to find someone else.

 

Don't tempt fate - end the affair. Finish it and close that chapter.

 

ENJOY your time with Michael and the fun dating can be when you are with someone you really care about!!

[bentnotbroken]

KG: CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

 

I am so very happy that you found someone who you connect with emotionally and sexually!

 

I am also going to caution you about contact/friendship with MM. First what friend doesn't contact you for seventeen months and then shows up for a sack session? NOT a true friend. He is NOT your friend. He is your fallback.

 

It seems like you and Michael are very compatible and even in love. I think you should put yourself in his place for a minute or at least imagine as if the situation were reversed. He has had an A for over 6 years with someone who didn't leave because she doesn't want to "ruin" her life not that she doesn't love him anymore. And he has contact with this woman even going for drinks and at work and you are hours away. How would you feel?

 

I think you are on a very slippery slope with trying to be friends with MM. Enough so that it could ruin what could be the best R of your life. What if you get in a fight and go for drinks with MM, drink too much, are sad and he ends up back at your place?

 

Do you see where I'm going with this?

 

If Michael is the one you are choosing, you really should cut ALL ties with XMM. He doesn't even deserve your friendship after what he has done.

 

Of course you will do what you want to do. I just want you to be happy and so many fow want to be friends with their MM but there's a reason it's not possible. It's so easy to feel those same feelings and be back to square one. And you feel those feelings with someone available and who you seem to be almost head over heels for. XMM cares about XMM. Not about KG being happy and moving on. If you continue contact with him, who knows what he'd stoop to?

 

Cut the tie forever, for reals, and give Michael your 100%.

Sorry to seem like a downer, I really am happy you found someone special.

 

GEL

 

 

In bold!!!!!!:bunny::bunny:

[KismetGirl]

KG - VERY happy for you!!

 

I remember Dday and how you were adamant that you would never love anyone again and all that ... and I remember telling you that YOU WILL love again one day, IF you let yourself.... and now you have !!!

 

I am also glad you have been truthful with Michael. I was truthful with my H when we started dating about my prior affair.

 

Like you, he didn't judge me. He accepted me, faults and all.

 

 

BUT, he didn't want him sniffing around me, calling me, etc. I think Michael is wanting YOU to break it off - FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL - without him telling you to I think it is a show of respect to Michael for you to stop the 'friendship' with xMM. It isn't a friendship - just like GEL said - he came sniffing around and got a booty call.

 

Tell xMM that you are closing that chapter of your life - and MEAN it.

 

Do not leave him hanging in the background for an ego boost FOR YOU, should things not work out with Michael. EVEN if they don't work out with Michael, you now know you WILL find someone else; that you have the capacity to find someone else.

 

Don't tempt fate - end the affair. Finish it and close that chapter.

 

ENJOY your time with Michael and the fun dating can be when you are with someone you really care about!!

 

Thanks FO :-)

 

I am very happy too, happier than I have been in years because o how truly wonderful this new man is. He makes it a point to speak to me every , single day, even if it's just to tell me he misses me, cares about me, nd can't wait to see me again. Everytime I think Im going to wake up and he'll just change his mind, he does some other romantic gesture to show me he's thinking about me. He tells me every day how he's never met anyone like me and he can't even believe how he feels about me. And I feel the same way :-)

 

I too am glad I am honest with him, I don't want to have secrets. Everyone has little white lies here and there , but pretending exMM never existed would be like pretending a large part of the last 5-6 years of my life didn't exist. I know about Michael's major relationships, including one lady who happens to live near him, and it's only fair he knows about mine, because we are starting fresh with each other so it makes sense.

 

I'm on cloud 9 when I think about him he's so amazing, i don't even know how to express it, but my friends and his are teasing both of us about how "nauseatingly cute" we are as a couple (and I think they're probably right )

 

I'm glad I came back to post here because all you guys (with the exception of that Goldenspoon tool above) are making me really think about this whole "breaking it off with exMM" completely thing. I had really thought that since Michael seemed ok with my remaining friends that he didn't mind, but now Im starting to think that maybe it does secretly bother him. I will speak to him tomorrow about this because I'd like him to know that it's ok for him to let me know if he's not happy with certain things and that we can discuss anything in a dis-argumentative and nonjudgmental format.

 

Will come back to update :-) Thanks all. I'v said it before, but despite some unsavoury characters who just like to insult total strangers on a message board for no reason, most people on here have been compassionate, helpful, and really gave me some sanity when I was feeling the lowest during the affair, and it gave me an anonymous forum to discuss my situation and gain some other views. I can read back on old posts and sense the depressing desperation in my voice sometimes when I just was losing all hope of ever finding love that I was worthy of, but you guys, in addition to me friends IRL of course, really helped to keep me moving, and for that I will always thank you, even if I will never meet you :-)

 

Cheers

[KismetGirl]

The truth hurts, doesn't it? Did the truth made you mad?

 

 

Lol, no , I'm laughing because you're an idiot. I'm a beautiful, intelligent, caring physician in residency, with a great career, wonderful friends and family, and now an amazing, perfect boyfriend, and I've never been happier.

 

You , on the other hand, are a sad and pathetic loser who has nothing better to do than insult someone you've never met.

 

I pity you. Your life must be really sad. Have you been cheated on? You know what, don't answer that, because I don't care. Because that doesn't give you a right to be an a**hole.

 

And you are now going on ignore, so feel free to write whatever you want, but you will be blocked, ignored, and eventually reported to the board moderators for harassment. Have a lovely day, this will be my last response to you.

[Goldenspoon]

Lol, no , I'm laughing because you're an idiot. I'm a beautiful, intelligent, caring physician in residency, with a great career, wonderful friends and family, and now an amazing, perfect boyfriend, and I've never been happier.

 

You , on the other hand, are a sad and pathetic loser who has nothing better to do than insult someone you've never met.

 

I pity you. Your life must be really sad. Have you been cheated on? You know what, don't answer that, because I don't care. Because that doesn't give you a right to be an a**hole.

 

And you are now going on ignore, so feel free to write whatever you want, but you will be blocked, ignored, and eventually reported to the board moderators for harassment. Have a lovely day, this will be my last response to you.

 

Well, the "real" you came out.

[tami-chan]

Ahhh KG, it's been a long time coming! Enjoy your relationship with Michael and good luck with your residency! Take care.

[KismetGirl]

KG: CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

 

I am so very happy that you found someone who you connect with emotionally and sexually!

 

I am also going to caution you about contact/friendship with MM. First what friend doesn't contact you for seventeen months and then shows up for a sack session? NOT a true friend. He is NOT your friend. He is your fallback.

 

It seems like you and Michael are very compatible and even in love. I think you should put yourself in his place for a minute or at least imagine as if the situation were reversed. He has had an A for over 6 years with someone who didn't leave because she doesn't want to "ruin" her life not that she doesn't love him anymore. And he has contact with this woman even going for drinks and at work and you are hours away. How would you feel?

 

I think you are on a very slippery slope with trying to be friends with MM. Enough so that it could ruin what could be the best R of your life. What if you get in a fight and go for drinks with MM, drink too much, are sad and he ends up back at your place?

 

Do you see where I'm going with this?

 

If Michael is the one you are choosing, you really should cut ALL ties with XMM. He doesn't even deserve your friendship after what he has done.

 

Of course you will do what you want to do. I just want you to be happy and so many fow want to be friends with their MM but there's a reason it's not possible. It's so easy to feel those same feelings and be back to square one. And you feel those feelings with someone available and who you seem to be almost head over heels for. XMM cares about XMM. Not about KG being happy and moving on. If you continue contact with him, who knows what he'd stoop to?

 

Cut the tie forever, for reals, and give Michael your 100%.

 

Sorry to seem like a downer, I really am happy you found someone special.

 

GEL

 

Hi GEL

 

Oh my, yes, it is so fantastic how I am attracted to Michael in every single way, in a way that I had been with exMM, but even MORESO because he is emotionally and physically available to me body, mind and soul. I am his full focus, not his guilty pleasure.

 

And I do see your point. I don't think I felt a need to keep exMM around as a friend because I feel like he'll be there if things with Michael didn't work out, so much as I suppose I have some sentimental attachment to him much like you'd have a sentimental attachment to....i don't know....an old broken car or something. One that is broken and useless, but it's given you a few good rides over the years and you have a tough time just throwing it away or something, lol, I have no idea. You get my point right? It's more a sentimental thing than me really wanting exMM anymore, because I can say I really don't. Do I care about exMM? Sure I do. You don't just turn off caring about someone, if those feelings were legitimately real (which they were), but I don't NEED him anymore, and I do not want him anymore. At ALL.

 

I do totally get your point though, and it's one I'm seriously thinking about now after everyone's input. I do feel like I want to start fresh, so maybe it would be best to cut off exMM totally, though it is a tad difficult due to our professional ties I must say, and some mutual friends of ours that sort of guarantee i'll end up seeing him socially at some point again whether I like it or not! We shall see.....

[whichwayisup]

You can still care about your exMM, Kis, he just doesn't have to be in your life.

As I said earlier, let things die a natural death. Be distant, be professional, no personal talk. Respect him as a Dr or whatever his position is at work and leave it at that.

[MorningCoffee]

KG, if a ex-SOM might chime in, I send my congrats to you as well. I also take some comfort in the fact that you got beyond your long and very involving affair and have now entered into what sounds like a very promising relationship with an available guy. Woot! Woot!

 

Now, from a guy's point of view? If I were your new guy, it would make me smile that you talked to me about how I felt about your keeping in touch as friends only with ex-MM. But it would make me do HANDSPRINGS if you told me you had ALREADY told ex-MM that you would not be talking or socializing with him any more, without your having even brought it up to me. If it were me, your having taken that step without my asking would just be one more great thing I'd love about you.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[BB07]

KG, if a ex-SOM might chime in, I send my congrats to you as well. I also take some comfort in the fact that you got beyond your long and very involving affair and have now entered into what sounds like a very promising relationship with an available guy. Woot! Woot!

 

Now, from a guy's point of view? If I were your new guy, it would make me smile that you talked to me about how I felt about your keeping in touch as friends only with ex-MM. But it would make me do HANDSPRINGS if you told me you had ALREADY told ex-MM that you would not be talking or socializing with him any more, without your having even brought it up to me. If it were me, your having taken that step without my asking would just be one more great thing I'd love about you.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

I think that post is worth a lot more than 2 cents......could be invaluable for KG.

 

As others said KG.......he shouldn't even be on your friend radar.

[blizzard]

Kismet: I saw MM after Michael went back home and he asked me how it went and I told him....and I've never seen him look so miserable in my life. For the first time in 6 years MM, of all people, calls me weekly, trying so so far to be my "friend" now, but i can see how much he is hurt by the fact that I have found someone that can give me 100% attention. I said to MM in the car "look, I don't mean to sound mean, but it was nice for once to have someone that was with me and not rushing to go home to his wife after we made love."

 

 

Some honestly do feel as if they are in a committed relationship with you. xMM used to tell me "you are mine...my girl, and I am yours. my heart is with you."

I would clarify how untrue it was, how committed he really was though "divorcing" as he might be. And he would reply, "but you are. that's the way I feel about you. i can't explain it." And then there was the jealousy. If he saw another man touch me in a way he didn't approve...which was usually in a harmless affectionate way. Absolutely crazy.

 

Kismet. Thank you for hope. I got teary eyed while reading because of the feeling of hope you gave and for the happiness YOU are feeling. After 8 months NC, I am at the point where I finally realize that there is nothing that I can do...his life, his decisions are in HIS control. If he is unhappy, so be it. If he feels love and joy for BS so be it. But, I now know that I am NOT a factor on how he lives his life NOW. BS is. It is time for me to move on live. I am ready. And for you as well. I am happy that you have found a "good guy" too. You are fortunate to have found a safe place to fall.

I was reading another post on LS forum. And the poster was painting a picture of a happy ending after some time of NC. To never give up hope on xMM. And I felt disheartened for those reading and buying in on it. What a pitiful peace of hope to cling to...a fairytale that stands less than a 5% chance of coming true. This kind of hope is what chains you to hurt. Your post was excellent Kismet...very reality which is what we all need to hear.

[jthorne]

Not to poop on your parade, but a question...

 

Should this relationship with Michael not work out, are you going to go back to MM? Are you ok being alone for awhile?

[Breezy Trousers]

Good for you!

 

However, I agree with a lot of the folks here. End it with MM. Aren't you tired of all the competitive triangles by now?

 

I can't blame you for feeling flattered by MM's behavior now. Having affairs often hurts OW's self esteem in the long run because MM end up holding much of the power once OW sleeps with them. It's natural to want to revel in the balance of power shifting your way for a change ... But keeping the relationship with MM is ultimately unfair to you, to Michael and to MM's family.

 

It's especially nice to read your love story tonight. My best friend's MM "came back" to her this weekend after he enforced a long NC. Of course, it was a dramatic, intensely sexual reunion ... and everything is once again back on HIS terms, not hers ..... He makes neither his wife nor my friend his priority, but both women make MM their priorities. Ugh! .... None of my business in the end, but I do care about her. She deserves the peace and fulfillment of committed love, and so do you.

 

Cheers!

[OWoman]

KG, first off let me say how pleased I am that you've been released from the toxic grip of your addiction for your MM. Having said that, though, I do wonder about this:

 

 

I am in a healthy relationship with a man that can devote all his romantic attention to me, just like it always should have been.

 

The way you are gushing about "Michael" is not dissimilar to the way you've gushed about your xMM in the past. I'm not trying to imply that your R with "Michael" is a repeat of your R with xMM, but I do wonder whether you've been checked out for BiPolarity as you seem to oscillate between moments of extreme up and moments of extreme down, with no discernible middle ground of calm rationality. It concerns me that this might be yet another extreme up for you, that may also come crashing down about you further down the line.

 

While "Michael" may be a great guy - and there's nothing to suggest he's not - I am concerned that you've simply replaced one addiction with another - like a Heroin addict moving onto Methadone, or an alcoholic becoming a born-again christian. It may be a less toxic substitute addiction, but it's still a way from being a healthy R, if that is the case. I may be completely off on this - and apologies if I am; I'm not wanting to cast aspersions on your sanity or anything like that. But there is something unsettling for me reading the same intensity of gushing (albeit with slightly different content) that characterised your "up" posts about your xMM, with no substantive indication of a difference in YOU or your emotional state. "Michael" may be different to your xMM, but how is this euphoria different to the euphoria you've experienced in your previous R? What differences are in place to protect you from those horrible lows you went through in your previous MM? That's not about "Michael" or your xMM or any other partner; that's about you and how you respond within a situation. I hope I'm wrong in this, but at least take the time to consider it before you dismiss it out of hand so that you can protect yourself if you need to.

 

Good luck - I do hope things work out for you - with "Michael", with anyone else or simply within yourself.

[KismetGirl]

Not to poop on your parade, but a question...

 

Should this relationship with Michael not work out, are you going to go back to MM? Are you ok being alone for awhile?

 

 

Hi there

 

Sorry for the delay in responding, but apparently when someone insulted me on my own thread earlier and I blew up and cursed at them, that was enough reason for the moderators of LS to BAN ME for a few weeks. Go figure. It's ok for people to harrass, insult, and be horrid, but if I lose it and tell them to go eff themselves, I get banned.

 

But carrying on, I'm back again, and to answer your question, if this relationship with Michael doesn't work out would I go back to MM? I would hope not. At this moment , I feel that my answer is a resolved NO, that I would NOT go back to an A with MM. At the time that I met Michael, I had actually been going through a period where I was telling myself that maybe I should just be alone for a while and not pursue dating actively, and then lo and behold by some bit of luck my friend introduced my to Michael, not intending for us to date but just to introduce us, and we ended up hitting it off immensely. So perhaps that old adage of "you'll find it when you're not even looking" is a little true sometimes?

 

The way it is going right now with Michael is so amazing, beyond my wildest dreams to be honest. Obviously one cannot predict the future, and I am not the type to say "never", becuse well, there was a time I said I would NEVER have an affair with a married man, and obviously that happened, but, at this point in time I have no desire for MM at all because I am so head over heels for Michael is ridiculous. As strongly as I felt about MM, as much as I fell in love with him and was so depressed that I'd never feel that way about anyone ever again, I was profoundly WRONG and I so wish that other OM's and OW's on this site would read this and understand that it is SO possible for them to feel that love (and even better, because it will be reciprocated and with someone AVAILABLE) with someone besides their married lovers. True love is reciprocated, and you shouldn't have to hide your feelings for someone.

 

As someone said, it is sad to read those posts where women write to hold on hope, that one day their married men will come to them....and maybe one in a thousand cases that is true, but A) that is a rarity, an exception rather than the rule B) you don't know that it will be happily ever after , because most relationships that start out as affairs often end the same way and C) perhaps the most important point, and one that I never wanted to listen to when I was so involved with MM....if someone REALLY, really wants to be with you, and I mean, if they can't live without you, they will find way to be with you. They will deal with the divorce, the financial difficulty, the being shunned by family and friends. If they truly want to be with you, they will go hell and high water to be with you , because you know what? Divorce happens to many people, and it's not the end of the world. It's rough, and it can cause scars, but so can living in an unhappy marriage, and if they were that miserable, they'd bloody well leave.

 

If they don't leave, they aren't miserable enough to do so. They very well may be in love with you, but that doesn't matter, because their actions say they are otherwise happy with their lives. Wasting years waiting is horrible and a waste of time, I can't even begin to tell you. When I said that my heart soars at the very picture of Michael's face when we have our little video chats because he's living far away from me right now, just seeing his face, it's incredible that feeling. And he tells me he feels the same way. And he's MINE. HE IS MINE. MY boyfriend. NOT someone else's husband. HE WANTS TO BE WITH ME AND ONLY ME. When he comes to visit me in a couple weeks, he won't be rushing home to his wife, he won't be hiding. I get to introduce him to my family and friends, I get to walk in public holding hands and kissing, I get to be a REAL couple.

 

Yes, I do still talk to MM sometimes. I actually had a conversation with Michael about my continued sporadic contact with MM. Michael is fully aware of our history, of our affair. I asked him if it bothered him if me and MM still spoke on the phone once in a blue moon, if we remained friends, and if we had lunch once in a blue moon, would things like that bother him. He was glad I spoke to him about it, and he said he didn't mind so long as he felt that he could trust me that I wouldn't do anything to hurt him. And I wouldn't, because that trust he is giving me is precious and I would never do anything to break it. I flat out asked "do you want me to stop speaking to him altogether?", and he said, "no. i understand that people are friends for a reason, and if i can't trust you to be platonic friends with someone you used to be with, then there's no point to this relationship. I can't say I want to be best friends with the guy, but if you talk to him on the phone or have lunch once a month, it's not going to bother me."

 

And frankly, I dont have a burning desire to see MM that often anymore. Yes, I still care for him, but it is developed more into a friendly love nowadays. I think finding someone new that I care for this much has helped me to get past that final hump in getting over MM, because while I will always care for MM, and obviously there is a physical attraction on a basic level (lets be honest, you dont stop being attracted to someone if they still look the same), there is no DESIRE for him despite any fondness I may have in the recesses of my mind. I don't WANT him anymore. I can speak to him and see him, and I am no longer compelled to jump across the table and kiss him like I used to want to do. Nowadays, it's more like "gee, MM is still cute, and he's a nice guy, but I am in love with Michael." Me and MM have nice conversations, because we are still the same people we always were, so obviously we get along and interact well, but its different now. We joke and laugh and talk like friends, and I KNOW that MM still wants me, and I know he's a bit jealous, but he has kept his boundary and does not try to touch me, kiss me, come over, or anything inappropriate. I have made it clear I am monogamous with Michael now, and I think somehow it makes MM feel even worse that he sees me being monogamous when he was unable to be for the last 6 years.

 

So, after that long response, my basic answer is....yes, I could be alone for a while if it didnt work out with Michael. I would be tempted to go back to MM if it was a bad break up or something , but I think that's normal. The difference nowadays is that despite passing temptation, I would not act on it because I have now seen how strongly I can feel for someone else, and how wonderful it is to have someone like me as much as I like them and for it to be a situation where no one is hiding , or lying, and we can tell the world how we feel for each other with no fears that it is wrong. And that is a beautiful thing. :-)

[KismetGirl]

KG, first off let me say how pleased I am that you've been released from the toxic grip of your addiction for your MM. Having said that, though, I do wonder about this:

 

 

 

 

The way you are gushing about "Michael" is not dissimilar to the way you've gushed about your xMM in the past. I'm not trying to imply that your R with "Michael" is a repeat of your R with xMM, but I do wonder whether you've been checked out for BiPolarity as you seem to oscillate between moments of extreme up and moments of extreme down, with no discernible middle ground of calm rationality. It concerns me that this might be yet another extreme up for you, that may also come crashing down about you further down the line.

 

While "Michael" may be a great guy - and there's nothing to suggest he's not - I am concerned that you've simply replaced one addiction with another - like a Heroin addict moving onto Methadone, or an alcoholic becoming a born-again christian. It may be a less toxic substitute addiction, but it's still a way from being a healthy R, if that is the case. I may be completely off on this - and apologies if I am; I'm not wanting to cast aspersions on your sanity or anything like that. But there is something unsettling for me reading the same intensity of gushing (albeit with slightly different content) that characterised your "up" posts about your xMM, with no substantive indication of a difference in YOU or your emotional state. "Michael" may be different to your xMM, but how is this euphoria different to the euphoria you've experienced in your previous R? What differences are in place to protect you from those horrible lows you went through in your previous MM? That's not about "Michael" or your xMM or any other partner; that's about you and how you respond within a situation. I hope I'm wrong in this, but at least take the time to consider it before you dismiss it out of hand so that you can protect yourself if you need to.

 

Good luck - I do hope things work out for you - with "Michael", with anyone else or simply within yourself.

 

OWoman--

 

I will try to be as calm in my response as possible, but I am going to assume you are not in any way an addiction or healthcare professional. I am both of the above. If you ARE a medical person or work with mentally ill and drug addicted people as well, then you should be a bit ashamed to make a frivolous diagnosis such as this on someone you do not know. I do not say this to insult you, as you have often been very nice in your postings, but I feel very strongly about these types of things so forgive me if I feel I must address it a bit before answering your questions that lay beneath the suggestion of mental health disorders you've just given me.

 

Of course you only see the "extremes" of my feelings. You do not see me on a daily basis. Why would I come on this board to write about my daily mundane activities? Do you want to hear about when I wake up, have a cup of tea, walk my dog, watch TV? Lol, of course not, and so boards like this are largely composed of emotionally driven posts, which naturally would seem to represent the "highs and lows" of a persons life without focusing on the average times, which obviously are a majority of what my life entails, as do most peoples.

 

Bipolarity, for those reading, and contrary to popular belief, is NOT something in which you're happy/manic one second, and depressed wanting to kill yourself the next. It is a cyclic disorder in which people go through phases, lasting days and even weeks, of one or the other: manic episodes and depressive episodes. It is a serious disability when properly diagnosed, and not one that should be given to anonymous people on a message board, because while I know better than to take a post like yours seriously (and again this is not to insult you, I am trying to educate others reading), other people may not know better and may start to think there is something wrong with them when in reality they are having quite normal, emotional reactions to things going on in their lives. People often confuse rumour and things from movies for reality of psychiatric and medical conditions, or things their friends or family tell them. A big problem I have with patients is that they tend to tell each other completely unsubstantiated rumours about medications, treatments, and etc, and they start to believe each other just becuse one of them has experienced it. For example, there is a big misconception that methadone, since you brought that one up, makes people's teeth rot. I have tons of patients who believe this because other patients told them "hey my teeth feel out when i took methadone.". No, they didnt. They fell out because you haven't seen a dentist in 30 years, and your drug-addict lifestyle is not conducive to proper dental hygeine....it is a coincidence that now that you are sober and on methadone that you are noticing that your teeth have been rotting the whole time. Get my drift?

 

Life is about highs, lows, and the in-betweens. On a board like this, you will likely hear more about the highs and lows, for reasons I said above. People come to write here when they are feeling emotional....not when they're having a cup of coffee and want to tell everyone about the oil change they are getting for their car later.

 

I have a writer's background and as such am very descriptive when relaying my pleasure or distaste with a situation. I am in a new relationship that thrills me, so obviously it would appear I am in a "high" or whatever you called it. Come see me when I'm at work a few hours earlier, I assure you I'd appear stressed out and not happy at all in some moments, but that's not because Im being "bipolar" today. Do you not think it is normal to feel a simliar "euphoria" from one relationship to another? I really, really loved MM so I used to gush about him yes. And when I was unhappy, I was very unhappy. I am now in a real, normal relationship and I am ecstatic about it, so when I write, I write to show how happy I am, and because I want other OW's reading to really, really understand that no matter what ups and lows they go through in their affairs, that it is possible to be so very happy with someone new and real and normal. If it would make you happy for me to come write about the cup fo tea I'm drinking right now, about how my back is hurting tomorrow after work, about how I'm bored sometimes when it gets quiet at work, I'd be happy to do so, but that is a bit dull and so I see no point to write about it. I come here, like many others, to write when I am stressed and want to vent, and thus, it is normally when I am A) very happy or B) very unhappy.

 

And as for replacing one "addiction" with another, it really irritates me when people bring up the "heroin for methadone" example. Do you work with methadone patients? because I do. I can assure you that methadone and heroin are not the same thing, and going out to cop heroin all day long is a vastly different lifestyle than take one dose of a medication once per day so that you can focus on addressing your addictive behaviour. It is no different than taking any other medication once a day. This is not the forum for me to intricately explain the psychological, physiological, biological and social basis of addiction medicine, but take my word on it that please think long and hard before making such baseless claims to people on a message board. I AM a professional in the medical world, and I scarcely make such accusations to people on these boards, because it is difficult to diagnose anything without seeing someone and I don't want to be irresponsible by giving people such ideas.

 

So to answer your underlying question, no, I do not think I am replacing anything. Do I think meeting Michael has helped me to really put that final nail in the coffin of my Affair with MM? Yes I do, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I was already nailing the coffin of MM Affair shut, slowly yet surely, I was just having some trouble putting that final nail in it. I was, as I said in my last post, actually come to a point where I was telling myself that maybe I would be better off being alone for a while from ALL men, and was actually OK with that idea.

 

I think it is perfectly normal to feel lonely when you are single sometimes, and to want to have a partner. Many people feel that way. In fact, I do not know many people who willingly want to be alone for the rest of their lives. People crave love, they crave affection and interaction in a romantic sense. Love and sex makes the world go round, and let's be honest, it's what drives most people at the end of the day. A great relationship can make the rest of life's stressors seem not as bad, and a bad one can make an otherwise great life seem dim. If I was not with Michael, I think I'd be ok. I have friends and family, and a career that takes an incredible amount of my time and focus. But , now I have this person who I adore , who feels the same way back, and it's just a nice feeling. It's not an addiction, it's not a replacement, it's just.....nice. It makes me smile. He's not even here right now, as I said, he lives pretty far away from me at the moment because of work, and so we can only see each other in person every 3 weeks or so, if not a bit less sometimes, but we make it a point to speak on skype (cheaper than phone and more fun with the video options ;-) ) nearly every single day, even if its just to say good night and "i miss you". Every morning I wake up and I have a cute email or text from him to tell me I brighten up his day just by existing....if that is a bad thing, then hell, call me an addict because he makes me bloody well smile and that is a nice thing. Addiction is a terrible thing. If you are one, have been one, or work with one, you would or should know that addicts are not happy people. They use their drugs (whether a person-drug or a drug-drug) to feel happy for a temporary time, and then they plummet back into the unhappiness that they are really trying to cover up. With Michael...I'm not trying to cover up anything. He isn't a substitute for anything....he is a wonderful complement to my life right now. I can't see him as often as I'd like right now, but that's ok, because he makes me smile just by being him, and we're ok with the long distance thing because we know if its meant to be, and we still like each other, we'll find a way to make it work eventually.

 

The difference between real love and infatuation/addiction, is that in the latter you spend your life desperately trying to keep that "high" from going away (even though you know it is a doomed endeavor), while the former is not something you have to struggle with....it is a wonderful complement to your life just as a matter of being.

 

I hope you did not take my post as insulting to you , I know that isn't how you meant it to me ( I hope ) but I find it an inherent responsibility on my part sometimes to address certain things, hopefully you understand where I am coming from, and I hope I answered your other questions.

 

Cheers

[twinsmom]

You are indeed eloquent, Kismet..Great post, and I am thrilled for your newfound happiness!