NC and being cyberstalked my BW

[artemis-love]

My Ex-AP and I ended our relationship a while ago after we were discovered. This isn't the first time he had an affair but this is the first time he had an affair of the heart.

 

He has been severely emotionally abused by the BW. Not that he said this to me. This is just something I know from talking with him and hearing the stuff he puts up with it.

 

Right now she monitors all his email, vm etc. She has been like this since before we started an affair but it ramped up after d-day.

 

Anyway, she now stalks me. I have my own website in which she visits every single day, several times a day. She reads articles, looks at my photos etc.

 

I really don't understand WHY she is doing this.

 

He has maintained, (before we went NC) that she is obsessed with me rather than the problems in his marriage. He is going to therapy with her in hopes that they can understand each other, and once and for all know if the marriage is dead or not. (And also, if it breaks up, that she doesn't think the reason is me... because it isn't. It was always about the problems between them.)

 

Anyway, how should I react to this? She's been doing this for over 6 months?

[desertIslandCactus]

My Ex-AP and I ended our relationship a while ago after we were discovered. This isn't the first time he had an affair but this is the first time he had an affair of the heart.

 

He has been severely emotionally abused by the BW. Not that he said this to me. This is just something I know from talking with him and hearing the stuff he puts up with it.

 

Right now she monitors all his email, vm etc. She has been like this since before we started an affair but it ramped up after d-day.

 

Anyway, she now stalks me. I have my own website in which she visits every single day, several times a day. She reads articles, looks at my photos etc.

 

I really don't understand WHY she is doing this.

 

He has maintained, (before we went NC) that she is obsessed with me rather than the problems in his marriage. He is going to therapy with her in hopes that they can understand each other, and once and for all know if the marriage is dead or not. (And also, if it breaks up, that she doesn't think the reason is me... because it isn't. It was always about the problems between them.)

 

Anyway, how should I react to this? She's been doing this for over 6 months?

 

She is only reading the articles and looking at photos, but isn't trying to interact with you in any other way?

 

It appears she just has a natural curiosity about you - and the woman who was involved with her husband.

 

Be prepared, in time she may wish to talk to you or ask questions. You may want to decide what to do in that event.

[datura_noir]

If this isn't his first affair, she knows the drill by know.

 

She has reason not to trust him, nor you.

 

He is NOT putting up with anything that he doesn't WANT to.

 

If your website is public, there's nothing you can do

 

She will wise up one day and start to question why she feels she isn't good enough to have an honest man in her life.

 

If this is the worst she has done, be thankful.

 

Are you still in contact with him??

[whichwayisup]

My Ex-AP and I ended our relationship a while ago after we were discovered. This isn't the first time he had an affair but this is the first time he had an affair of the heart.

 

He's your EX-ap, so why are you so concerned about his marriage and life. He chose his wife over you. She isn't "abusing" him, she's doing what ALL Betrayed Spouses do after a D-Day.

 

It's a public blog or whatever, she can look. make it private if you want her to stop.

 

Anyway, you are only hearing HIS side of things, for all you know he could have BEGGED her for a second chance. You're making it sound like she's unstable.

 

This man LIED and betrayed her, the woman he said vows to, he's cheated on her before yet you say you are the first "one" he had a heart affair with? Do you truly believe that????

 

Anyway, make your site private, forget about her and him, focus on yourself and healing, letting go. he is your past, you're in NC mode with, yes?

[whichwayisup]

Also, HOW do you know it's her and not HIM? Even if the IP address shows up, it doesn't prove it's her.

 

I do wonder if you're "looking" for reasons to hang onto him. If she hasn't said anything to you, made comments, left you notes, I don't think that is stalking, even more so since it's public site.

[BB07]

Something similar happened to me which led to me and the BS talking which led to a lot of lies being uncovered by both of us, which indeed was a good thing for both of us.

If all you know is what he told you about her, then you might be in for a rude awaking as to what the truth really is. Oh and just because he didn't directly say anything bad about her directly to you, don't assume he is such a nice guy. I thought my xmm was a wonderful guy too.

She probably is as sane as you are.....and not abusive at all, it's highly likely that he portrayed her that way to you, to use it to his advantage. And............since this ain't his first affair rodeo, she does what other BS's do........she monitors his accounts, no big surprise there.

 

If she is just checking out your website.......that is normal and to be expected, not stalking at all. She is curious about the woman who had an affair with HER husband just as the BS was curious about me. BTW......I didn't know I was in an affair situation that go around with him, he lied about being separated.

I've learned a lot of things the hard way.......and one of them is, a man who will cheat on his wife, well there isn't a whole lot of other stuff that should be surprising either and you can bet your last dollar, whether directly said or indirectly said, he is going to point out every flaw of his wife whether they be real or imagined or just lied about and he doesn't have to do it directly either. MM are quite sneaky........as evidenced by having an affair. Think about it........and as DIC said, she might contact you, think about what you are going to do if she does. Are you going to protect him and yourself or tell the truth??

[artemis-love]

She is only reading the articles and looking at photos, but isn't trying to interact with you in any other way?

 

It appears she just has a natural curiosity about you - and the woman who was involved with her husband.

 

Be prepared, in time she may wish to talk to you or ask questions. You may want to decide what to do in that event.

 

I gave her the opportunity to talk to me. She declined. She has been stalking me for over 6 months with over 4,000 page views. She does this sometimes 6-7 times a day. This is beyond curiosity.

[artemis-love]

If this isn't his first affair, she knows the drill by know.

 

Are you still in contact with him??

 

Only on a professional basis.

[artemis-love]

He's your EX-ap, so why are you so concerned about his marriage and life. He chose his wife over you. She isn't "abusing" him, she's doing what ALL Betrayed Spouses do after a D-Day.

 

He hasn't made a choice yet. When we went NC he told me he would let me know when he has made a final decision.

 

Anyway, you are only hearing HIS side of things, for all you know he could have BEGGED her for a second chance. You're making it sound like she's unstable.

I'm sure he did beg her. The same way he begged me. He is waffly that way. And unstable... yes, I believe she is unstable. She has demonstrated those behaviors long before we got into an affair.

 

This man LIED and betrayed her, the woman he said vows to, he's cheated on her before yet you say you are the first "one" he had a heart affair with? Do you truly believe that????

Yes, I do believe that. We know each other for many years. He has even come to my own IC session. My therapist remarked that we know each other so well we can practically finish each others sentences. He told me everything about his former indiscretion. Yes, I believe it.

[artemis-love]

Also, HOW do you know it's her and not HIM? Even if the IP address shows up, it doesn't prove it's her.

Because I also picked up the ip address from her job. (He has logged into my site from our office as well. It may be both of them as certain spikes indicate times him and I had major conversations.)

 

If she hasn't said anything to you, made comments, left you notes, I don't think that is stalking, even more so since it's public site.

She sent me a bunch of text messages (to my cell) not that long ago, even though I have no contact with her since d-day.

[artemis-love]

FWIW, when you put your "stuff" out there on a public site, it's there for anyone to take a look at. If it really makes you uncomfortable, take the site down for a while.

 

I don't put anything out there publically that I'd be ashamed to show. The level of interest concerns me though. 5-10 hours a week viewing my site is excessive. That energy could be placed on fixing her personal issues (we all have those) and her marriage. Instead, it is focused outwardly, toward me.

 

In the past, when he remained true and completely trustworthy, she continued to stalk his ow for many years afterward, even after the ow moved 2,000 away and got married. This is beyond a concerned BW.

 

As far as other people's comments about his words about his wife.... when he told me about certain things and I commented that it didn't sound good, he defended her. So I don't think it was some sort of ploy to get me on his side. He actually did not see that these behaviors were not emotionally healthy for either one of them. He started to recognize them before we went NC, but said he wasn't emotionally healthy enough to put a stop to them and set some boundaries of his own. (Something he said he was working on in his own IC.)

[Ladyblue]

So here's what you know for sure;

 

He is a serial cheater.

You betrayed her by posing as her LT friend, as well as by f*ing her H.

Someone is visiting your PUBLIC website several times a day.

 

These facts are all you know for sure.

 

What you have stated does not even remotely constitute cyber-stalking. You have a PUBLIC web site. HE could be going to the web site. She could be showing the site to her friends. She could be going there, trying to come to terms with how YOU, someone she trusted as a friend in her home and her life, could betray her so badly. She could be trying to figure out what her husband saw in you. Their children could be visiting your web site if they are old enough. The kids could be showing you to their friends, for a multitude of reasons. Good grief - it's a PUBLIC web site on the "world-wide web" - you don't post stuff on the www if you don't want people to look at it. You remind me of a kid on the school bus having a fit because another kid is "looking at" them.

 

I find your thinking rather amazing. You not only slept with the woman's husband, but you betrayed her by posing as her friend throughout your LTR. You KNOW he is a serial cheater, but actually believe you are the only OW who is "special." HE is a serial cheater, but you call HER the unstable one? You have a public web site, and are yelling "stalker" because someone from her address is LOOKING at it??? You speak disparagingly about her because she has mental issues. Frankly, your thinking and actions ain't sounding too solid at this point either. I'm not sure but what you aren't right up there with her. I'm not saying that to be mean ---I just think your thinking is not very reality-based.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Ladyblue

[artemis-love]

So here's what you know for sure;

 

He is a serial cheater.

You betrayed her by posing as her LT friend, as well as by f*ing her H.

Someone is visiting your PUBLIC website several times a day.

I was never her friend. We have met long ago, as a friend of his. But that is how far it went.

 

You remind me of a kid on the school bus having a fit because another kid is "looking at" them.

I don't worry about what she reads. I could care less what she reads.

 

I worry about the compulsion to do so, at such an alarming frequency. What does that say about her? I do understand there is trauma involved with being betrayed. So how long does one deal with that? 2 weeks? 2 months, 2 years? Forever? That compulsion is not healthy for her, it isn't healthy for their marriage, and it certainly doesn't allow me to move on.

 

And I can track the time of day and a lot of other detail. She's not showing it to her friends, unless her friends are hanging out at her house after midnight, or early in the morning. (And she may be showing it to her friends by emailing them a link because I have tracked different networks.)

 

I'm not sure but what you aren't right up there with her. I'm not saying that to be mean ---I just think your thinking is not very reality-based.

 

There is a lot more info that I have that I'm not sharing because THIS is a public forum. Schemas she did to trick him into believing she was somewhere that she wasn't. A lot of stuff that is a little bit out there. Again, I know that BS have experienced a trauma. What concerns me is STAYING in the trauma mode and NOT getting psychological help to get out of that.

 

I do believe it was his first affair-of-the-heart because of the emotional work him and I had to do to get passed certain issues. Certain physical responses can't be faked. As I said, we know each other better than most people do. I knew him better than I knew my former husband. And he certainly knows me better than anyone I have ever met.

 

I also believe that his affairs have been because there was something always amiss in his relationship with her. It would get far too personal in explaining why. Let's just say he has always swept problems under the rug and not faced them. And when that happens things do not change. Couple that with not having 'a pair' to speak up about grievances, and that can be a problem.

 

I have literally witnessed him do something like this, "I like the color blue". - Her, "You don't like blue, you like black". - Him, "You are right, I don't know what I was thinking. I like black." He has even tried to get me to change my experience of things to match what she wanted him to believe. It's really scary, and really psychologically twisted.

 

I have also have him recount the few incidents I had with her from a very skewed point of view. Where I had to say.... wait a minute, you left out this part, and that part. (Parts that would make the situation more balanced and not just her the innocent victim.) These are not incidents he told me about, but ones that I was part of, so I have my own knowledge of actual events. (not opinions, but events that she omitted to make her point of view more palpable.)

 

I believe that BW has Borderline Personality Disorder. I believe she has been abusing him for a very long time, which is why things are so weird for all of us.

 

This other thread explains well what people go through in those situations. (I have btdt so I know how hard it is to break away, even when you want to.)

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3128956&postcount=4

 

I think there is a sort of traumatic bonding happening.

Edited January 18, 2011 by artemis-love

[Ladyblue]

I was never her friend. We have met long ago, as a friend of his. But that is how far it went.

 

I don't worry about what she reads. I could care less what she reads.

 

I worry about the compulsion to do so, at such an alarming frequency. What does that say about her? I do understand there is trauma involved with being betrayed. So how long does one deal with that? 2 weeks? 2 months, 2 years? Forever? That compulsion is not healthy for her, it isn't healthy for their marriage, and it certainly doesn't allow me to move on.

 

And I can track the time of day and a lot of other detail. She's not showing it to her friends, unless her friends are hanging out at her house after midnight, or early in the morning. (And she may be showing it to her friends by emailing them a link because I have tracked different networks.)

 

You sound every bit as compulsive about tracking her tracking you!

If you didn't care, as you stated in your above paragraph, you wouldn't be tracking her so carefully. LOL! Or, you would just set up privacy settings and be done with it. Some part of you is clearly just as obsessed with watching her and her friends watch you.[/b]

 

There is a lot more info that I have that I'm not sharing because THIS is a public forum. Schemas she did to trick him into believing she was somewhere that she wasn't.

 

Hmmm. So --- its ok when you and him did it to have an affair, but she's not supposed to? You and her H did the same thing to her while sneaking around having the affair. I'm sure you and her H pulled some major deception/sneaking/lying to be able to conduct the affair.

 

A lot of stuff that is a little bit out there. Again, I know that BS have experienced a trauma. What concerns me is STAYING in the trauma mode and NOT getting psychological help to get out of that.

 

I do believe it was his first affair-of-the-heart because of the emotional work him and I had to do to get passed certain issues. Certain physical responses can't be faked. As I said, we know each other better than most people do. I knew him better than I knew my former husband. And he certainly knows me better than anyone I have ever met.

 

I also believe that his affairs have been because there was something always amiss in his relationship with her.

 

No. Divorce is because there was "something always amiss in his relationship with her." Affairs are because of his character issues.

 

It would get far too personal in explaining why. Let's just say he has always swept problems under the rug and not faced them. And when that happens things do not change. Couple that with not having 'a pair' to speak up about grievances, and that can be a problem.

 

so HE clearly has his OWN ISSUES.

 

I have literally witnessed him do something like this, "I like the color blue". - Her, "You don't like blue, you like black". - Him, "You are right, I don't know what I was thinking. I like black." He has even tried to get me to change my experience of things to match what she wanted him to believe. It's really scary, and really psychologically twisted.

 

It's really scary and twisted for you to be all up in her face to even see that while f*ing her H. It's also really twisted for him to ride along with that. And his solution to that, instead of getting the H*ll far away, was to have multiple affairs. That's normal and healthy?

 

I have also have him recount the few incidents I had with her from a very skewed point of view. Where I had to say.... wait a minute, you left out this part, and that part. (Parts that would make the situation more balanced and not just her the innocent victim.) These are not incidents he told me about, but ones that I was part of, so I have my own knowledge of actual events.

 

Again. You're f*ing her H, and you're all up in her face, too? BUT, bigger picture, he can't tell what actually happened without distorting reality? (Can anyone say 'gaslighting'? I'm not being catty here - this man has his OWN serious issues - he is NOT just a poor VICTIM of her abuse.

 

(not opinions, but events that she omitted to make her point of view more palpable.)

 

Yes, that's what just about everyone does when they lie. I'd be willing to bet you and her H did plenty of that to carry off your secret affair, too.

 

 

OK, the more I read, the more it is clear that He and his wife BOTH have serious psychological issues. He sounds like a pathological liar, or perhaps borderline delusional or borderline psychotic. Based on your last couple of paragraphs, anything that comes out of his mouth is completely unreliable.

 

Based on your posts, it sounds to me like you think HE has been severely psychologically abused and brainwashed by a very sick and twisted wife, to the point that he doesn't know what the truth is, or what he thinks or believes, and you think you need to rescue him from it. All the while, you are obsessively watching her watching your web site, and looking for every clue to prove that she is mentally deranged.

 

I think BOTH of them are in serious need of psychiatric help, and you could use some reality checks yourself.

[bentnotbroken]

I don't put anything out there publically that I'd be ashamed to show. The level of interest concerns me though. 5-10 hours a week viewing my site is excessive. That energy could be placed on fixing her personal issues (we all have those) and her marriage. Instead, it is focused outwardly, toward me.

 

In the past, when he remained true and completely trustworthy, she continued to stalk his ow for many years afterward, even after the ow moved 2,000 away and got married. This is beyond a concerned BW.

 

As far as other people's comments about his words about his wife.... when he told me about certain things and I commented that it didn't sound good, he defended her. So I don't think it was some sort of ploy to get me on his side. He actually did not see that these behaviors were not emotionally healthy for either one of them. He started to recognize them before we went NC, but said he wasn't emotionally healthy enough to put a stop to them and set some boundaries of his own. (Something he said he was working on in his own IC.)

 

 

And you would know this how? Because she told you..right? You are going to believe whatever you want but it isn't up to you to say what she should be doing to her marriage(since she isn't the cheater). There are things we all should be doing...a MP isn't one of them. Unless she is threatening or abusive she isn't doing anything wrong.

[artemis-love]

You sound every bit as compulsive about tracking her tracking you!

 

My blog, really a website, has been in existence since 1999. It was, and always has been present on the web for professional reasons. Believe me, I have thought about shutting her out. But it's not that simple because doing that, also shuts me out on professional things.

 

I have only known about her tracking me for a few weeks. She's been doing it for far longer than I've known about it.

 

And absolutely, I am a bit obsessed with her tracking me. I admit it. I think most people would react the same way if they knew someone was stalking them.

 

Hmmm. So --- its ok when you and him did it to have an affair, but she's not supposed to? You and her H did the same thing to her while sneaking around having the affair. I'm sure you and her H pulled some major deception/sneaking/lying to be able to conduct the affair.

 

Actually we didn't until near the end. It was pretty simple and easy requiring no schemas. She was doing these schemas the whole time they have been married. I haven't been part of their life that long.

 

Affairs are because of his character issues.

From both partners. If you create a hostile environment to be your authentic self, then you become inauthentic. If you aren't authentic, you aren't connected to your partner, and often, you aren't even connected to yourself, if you do it long enough. People always make it black and white. I suppose it IS black and white when you are dealing with people who are emotionally healthy. It's not so b&w when they aren't.

 

so HE clearly has his OWN ISSUES.

Yes, he does. Some of it is him. But some of it is because he is deeply enmeshed in a unhealthy codependent relationship.

 

And his solution to that, instead of getting the H*ll far away, was to have multiple affairs. That's normal and healthy?.

 

Of course it isn't. That just illustrates that maybe, the reason why he did it, lack of cojones and all, is because SHE wasn't a good fit for him. I don't believe in the concept of "once a cheater..." I believe in the concept of being in the wrong relationship (for whatever reason) and not facing the facts and getting out of it.

 

Again. You're f*ing her H, and you're all up in her face, too? BUT, bigger picture.

 

I've never been in her face. I let her completely verbally pummel me. And when she asked if I had something to say, I said no. (Because I didn't want to add to her hurt.)

 

he can't tell what actually happened without distorting reality? (Can anyone say 'gaslighting'? I'm not being catty here - this man has his OWN serious issues - he is NOT just a poor VICTIM of her abuse.

 

That's precisely the issue. He has told me many times that he has trouble recalling the past because she has convinced him, so thoroughly to believe an alternative reality, one that works for her.

 

When he tried to pull that on me, I told him that I WAS THERE, and that is not what happened and that he shouldn't let his reality be someone else's version of it, when they weren't even in the room!

 

He said that is part of the problem. He goes in with one objective, to discuss a problem that troubles him, and walks out of the room, completely turned around thinking everything is his fault, even when it isn't. (And the problem remains unresolved because as far as she is concerned, the problem doesn't exists if she doesn't acknowledge it.)

 

OK, the more I read, the more it is clear that He and his wife BOTH have serious psychological issues. He sounds like a pathological liar, or perhaps borderline delusional or borderline psychotic. Based on your last couple of paragraphs, anything that comes out of his mouth is completely unreliable.

 

They both have serious issues. He has lied a lot in the past. But not to me. He lies to himself more than anyone else, usually as a defense mechanism to not deal with difficult issues. He hates confrontation. He told me that I am the only person that he feels free to speak his mind to because I don't condemn him from having a different point of view than my own. I never said that he was completely emotionally sound. But, he is very high functioning and you would never know this about him unless you got as close that I have.

 

Regarding your repeated remarks about me having sex with her husband... None of that gives license to act the way she has been acting, before and after the affair. It's still not normal behavior. I do understand the trauma involved and the hurt. But at a certain point, if you want to recover and regain any trust in a relationship, you do have to let it go. If you continue to allow yourself to relive the trauma over and over, you do neither.

 

Based on your posts, it sounds to me like you think HE has been severely psychologically abused and brainwashed by a very sick and twisted wife, to the point that he doesn't know what the truth is, or what he thinks or believes, and you think you need to rescue him from it.

 

Yes all of that. But I have let go trying to rescue him. I didn't break him and it isn't my job to fix him. I'm not trying to fix him, but I still haven't given up 'thinking' about fixing him. It's a process.

 

All the while, you are obsessively watching her watching your web site, and looking for every clue to prove that she is mentally deranged.

 

No as I said my website is there for professional reason. I've been tracking data for several years now. It's part of what I do for a living. I just stopped tracking during the past year because I was very busy. But once I resumed, I saw the spike and said, Holy S#&T!

 

I think BOTH of them are in serious need of psychiatric help, and you could use some reality checks yourself.

 

I am getting help because being involved with people who are like this can mess an emotionally normal person up. And my counselor told me that she thinks I am pretty normal and believes this relationship pushed me in to new territory. I know he is getting help too which is one of the reasons we went NC. (So he can work out his stuff without dragging me through his emotional turmoil). I don't know if she is.

[artemis-love]

And you would know this how? Because she told you..right? You are going to believe whatever you want but it isn't up to you to say what she should be doing to her marriage(since she isn't the cheater). There are things we all should be doing...a MP isn't one of them. Unless she is threatening or abusive she isn't doing anything wrong.

 

Why is it on these forums that the minute a partner is unfaithful, all other behavior by the BS is suddenly not important? BS often do contribute to the problem.

 

I know about this behavior because he told me about it, 3 years before we started having an affair. And I was like, "Huh, and you put up with this? Why? This is not normal." His reaction... but she was hurt. - Me: yeah... and how long ago was that? years ago. Something is wrong here.

[greengoddess]

Why is it on these forums that the minute a partner is unfaithful, all other behavior by the BS is suddenly not important? BS often do contribute to the problem.

 

I know about this behavior because he told me about it, 3 years before we started having an affair. And I was like, "Huh, and you put up with this? Why? This is not normal." His reaction... but she was hurt. - Me: yeah... and how long ago was that? years ago. Something is wrong here.

 

 

This can also be considered grooming. He had an interest in you and made sure to knock his marriage to you everytime he could to groom you for an affair with him.

[bentnotbroken]

Why is it on these forums that the minute a partner is unfaithful, all other behavior by the BS is suddenly not important? BS often do contribute to the problem.

 

I know about this behavior because he told me about it, 3 years before we started having an affair. And I was like, "Huh, and you put up with this? Why? This is not normal." His reaction... but she was hurt. - Me: yeah... and how long ago was that? years ago. Something is wrong here.

 

 

It's unimportant to me because this is the infidelity forum. Which says that the infidelity and marital problems while related are two very separate and distinctly different issues. When a marriage is bad it is contributed to by both parties. When an affair is engaged in it is "typically" one of the spouses lying to the other while carrying on a relationship with a third( 4th, 5th, etc.)party. Usually this is done without the knowledge of the BS. Where as both parties are usually aware of the problems they contribute to the marital breakdown.

 

As long as an affair is viewed as an excuse for poor coping skills dealing with marital issues..those with those poor coping skills will always use it as an excuse when someone else tickles their fancy. They will ignore real problems until they met someone, exaggerate normal issues or make up stuff all together. I don't think most people believe that marital problems aren't the cause of dying love, justifications or the feeling of wanting more. But at some point an adult should be able to do things in the open and with the full knowledge of all involved parties.

[desertIslandCactus]

 

 

And absolutely, I am a bit obsessed with her tracking me. I admit it. I think most people would react the same way if they knew someone was stalking them.

 

What about all the time an OW spends in obsessing over the MM's M.

 

From both partners. If you create a hostile environment to be your authentic self, then you become inauthentic. If you aren't authentic, you aren't connected to your partner, and often, you aren't even connected to yourself, if you do it long enough. People always make it black and white. I suppose it IS black and white when you are dealing with people who are emotionally healthy. It's not so b&w when they aren't.

 

But some of it is because he is deeply enmeshed in a unhealthy codependent relationship.

 

The time that a BS spends tracking the OW can and should be limited for her own sake.

 

However, the months - years spent by an outsider with their nose pressed against the window of others' M is amazing. Words such as "codependent relationship", are thrown out there - when this is actually a M between two Close people.

 

What two people have or do not have in a marriage, should not be an outsider's concern.

 

Of course it isn't. That just illustrates that maybe, the reason why he did it, lack of cojones and all, is because SHE wasn't a good fit for him. I don't believe in the concept of "once a cheater..." I believe in the concept of being in the wrong relationship (for whatever reason) and not facing the facts and getting out of it.

 

It is common for the OW to hold onto the feeling that the M partners are not a good fit, or in the wrong relationship, Artemis. Again, it's not the OW's call.

 

He said that is part of the problem. He goes in with one objective, to discuss a problem that troubles him, and walks out of the room, completely turned around thinking everything is his fault, even when it isn't. (And the problem remains unresolved because as far as she is concerned, the problem doesn't exists if she doesn't acknowledge it.)

 

And it's obviously common for the MM to wail or make excuses to the OW.

 

 

They both have serious issues.

 

Who doesn't. But it is a closed M.

 

He has lied a lot in the past. But not to me. He lies to himself more than anyone else, usually as a defense mechanism to not deal with difficult issues. He hates confrontation. He told me that I am the only person that he feels free to speak his mind to because I don't condemn him from having a different point of view than my own. I never said that he was completely emotionally sound. But, he is very high functioning and you would never know this about him unless you got as close that I have.

 

This is typical in the OW being made to feel like the rescuer.

 

 

Regarding your repeated remarks about me having sex with her husband... None of that gives license to act the way she has been acting, before and after the affair.

 

After the affair, yes. It is her Husband. Their bodies belong to one-another, scripturally.

 

It's still not normal behavior. I do understand the trauma involved and the hurt. But at a certain point, if you want to recover and regain any trust in a relationship, you do have to let it go. If you continue to allow yourself to relive the trauma over and over, you do neither.

 

So far she hasn't done anything to you, excepting for some text messages?

 

The BS should let it go, but apparently she isn't ready yet.

 

Yes all of that. But I have let go trying to rescue him. I didn't break him and it isn't my job to fix him. I'm not trying to fix him, but I still haven't given up 'thinking' about fixing him. It's a process.

 

It's not your responsibility to fix him.

 

I am getting help because being involved with people who are like this can mess an emotionally normal person up. And my counselor told me that she thinks I am pretty normal and believes this relationship pushed me in to new territory. I know he is getting help too which is one of the reasons we went NC. (So he can work out his stuff without dragging me through his emotional turmoil). I don't know if she is

.

 

The Only ones who are gaining from these illicet relationships - are the counselors .. $$$.$$

[Owl]

Here's a thought....she does indeed appear to be insecure.

 

But, given that your opening post noted that this wasn't his first affair...clearly at this point, she's got sound REASON to feel insecure?

 

See, this is a viscious cycle. He cheats, she becomes insecure. Her new insecurity makes for a rockier relationship...so he cheats again. Contiuum ad nauseum.

 

Don't blame her for her insecurities...take a look at the source of her stress.

 

As far as her visiting your webpage, I'd suggest you recall the adage..."Keep your friends close...".

 

She doesn't trust his relationship with you. She's likely scouring your site periodically looking for any possible signs of renewed contact/continuation of the affair. You probably ARE an obsession for her at this point...but that shouldn't be surprising to you or anyone else, really.

 

What do you think you would do if you were in her position? Even if you think you know...it's darned hard to predict until you're there. I certainly didn't react the way that I (and everyone else) thought that I would. But if you look at it...is it really all that surprising that she's reacting the way that she is?

 

Given that there's ANY contact between you (business or otherwise), she's going to seek any means she can to determine the truth of what's going on...even if that means scouring your blogpage.

 

Expect it to continue.

[Mme. Chaucer]

OP, I am getting the idea from your posts that you, too are involved in an "unhealthy codependent relationship" with the man.

 

His wife's problems, her behavior, and their relationship is actually none of your business.

 

Too bad for her that she is wasting her time and energy "stalking" your website - I don't see what impact that has upon you, since she is in no way harassing you personally.

 

You said that during this period of NC, he is supposed to choose?

 

Will you accept him if he chooses you?

 

What is YOUR work during this period of NC? It seems like you have decided that it's to remain as emotionally enmeshed as possible. Maybe you should try to disentangle yourself from this man and his wife during this time, and see what your life could look like without them.

[artemis-love]

What about all the time an OW spends in obsessing over the MM's M.

 

I think it is a little different because OW's future is determined on the fate of MM's M. It usually isn't the case the other way around, especially if WS has chosen to work on the M.

 

That two people have or do not have in a marriage, should not be an outsider's concern.

It was his choice to share that information with me.

 

It is common for the OW to hold onto the feeling that the M partners are not a good fit, or in the wrong relationship, Artemis. Again, it's not the OW's call.

 

Of course it isn't the OW's call. But those were his words. And just because people stay in a relationship doesn't mean it is good for them. Having a piece a paper, or being there "first" doesn't make it a good fit.

 

However, the months - years spent by an outsider with their nose pressed against the window of others' M is amazing. Words such as "codependent relationship", are thrown out there - when this is actually a M between two Close people.

 

This is typical in the OW being made to feel like the rescuer.

Those are my own issues that I wasn't aware of. I'm like that in all relationships, not just romantic ones. It's part of my makeup. I'm learning from my mistakes.

 

After the affair, yes. It is her Husband. Their bodies belong to one-another, scripturally.

If you believe in that hocus pocus. Not everyone does.

 

So far she hasn't done anything to you, excepting for some text messages?

I might point out I've done nothing to her either. He hurt her. My role was an enabler, but I did nothing to hurt her directly and I did a lot to not further her hurt when I could have. (I have a lot of information that I could have revealed but chose to stay out of it and let him deal with her. It's not my place to inform her of information she has every right to know, from him.)

[artemis-love]

Here's a thought....she does indeed appear to be insecure.[/quote[

 

For how long? A year? 10 years? A lifetime? At what point is there a statue of limitations. I know that her behavior never changed even after he had proven to be faithful for 10 years after his first unfaithful encounter. Those behaviors were the same from her d-day with him 10 years ago, up until the time he and I started our affair. And I KNOW he was faithful to her. But under the microscope of suspicion all the time is not a comfortable place to be. It does not build trust. It actually does the opposite.

 

But, given that your opening post noted that this wasn't his first affair...clearly at this point, she's got sound REASON to feel insecure?

Again for how long? Forever? If I don't trust my partner, I end the relationship. PERIOD.

 

What do you think you would do if you were in her position? Even if you think you know...it's darned hard to predict until you're there.

 

I HAVE been there. I chose to believe in my partner and give him the chance to trust again. You can't build emotionally intimacy if you don't chose to trust. It just can't happen because you have walls up that prevent it from happening. And it worked. We rebuilt trust. When I finally ended my relationship with this person, it wasn't because of jealousy, fear, suspicion. Is was for reasons completely unrelated.

 

I certainly didn't react the way that I (and everyone else) thought that I would. But if you look at it...is it really all that surprising that she's reacting the way that she is?

Yes, it is surprising that someone would behave this way for over 10 years. It spells serious psychological issues.

[artemis-love]

I'm glad he's getting help for himself. As a "pretty normal" person, why do you think you're so drawn to this dysfunctional person? What to you is that attractive about someone that is mentally unstable, has serious issues, is "enmeshed in an unhealthy co-dependent relationship".

 

We got close while I was in the middle of a very difficult divorce. I really was in far too deep before I even understood there were issues like that. He hid them so well under the guise of having a perfect life. He inspired me to do the same with my life. Little did I know his "perfect life" was play acting and not at all real.

 

Something that stood out to me is that if he is unable to be honest with himself, why do you think he's able to be honest with you?

 

There have been moments of clarity and the general moving target goes in the same direction. There are parts that are true and parts that are unknown. I have been able to uncover what was true and what is still a question mark over time, and in therapy. My therapist did meet him and agrees that I have made a pretty accurate assessment of the situation. (And he shared a few things about his background with her. He was quite open in fact.)

 

Based on his "brainwashing" and his training to respond to manipulation, it sounds as if he's somewhat incapable of independent thought.

 

I think it's more a symptom of THIS relationship, not all relationships. He does have a weak sense of inner core. I know from reading a lot about trauma and abuse that people are totally different around their abusers than they are with everyone else.

 

How long do you expect to wait for him while he's in therapy getting all of this worked out? It takes years to get from where he is (if it's completely accurate by your account) to being a fairly healthy individual.

I'm doing my best to work this out on my own. You can't erase how you feel, you can only try to refocus your thoughts. I'm not waiting for him, but I still do have hope. I'm trying to get to a place where I no longer have hope. That is something you can't will away. It just has to happen.

 

When you're concerned enough and truly feel threatened, you'll figure out a way to make that happen.

 

I have made him aware that she is doing this. He told me he would take care of it.

 

Honestly, I saw a similar thread here on LS so I thought it would be an interesting topic to discuss because I never read about the BW stalking the OW, only the other way around. I thought it would be an interesting flip.