NC and being cyberstalked my BW

[artemis-love]

I don't recall you saying that the BS had made any threats so I'm curious as to how you are going to collect data and actually have a case since visiting a website is not illegal, regardless of how many times a certain person visits it???

 

She has texted my telephone only a few weeks ago. That is direct contact.

 

I have all the data of every visit.

 

Definitions:

 

Under the United States Code Title 18 Subsection 1514©1. Harassment is defined as "a course of conduct directed at a specific person that causes substantial emotional distress in such a person and serves no legitimate purpose".

 

or

 

Harassment in the workplace can further be clarified as any conduct that creates significant anguish to another person, with the intent to bother, scare or emotionally abuse her.

 

or

While some conduct involving annoying or menacing behavior might fall short of illegal stalking, such behavior may be a prelude to stalking and violence and should be treated seriously.

 

or

Make no mistake: this kind of harassment can be as frightening and as real as being followed and watched in your neighborhood or in your home.

-Vice President Al Gore

[BB07]

Were the texts threatening?

[BB07]

I glanced over your thread again and I didn't see any mention of her threatening you and from what you've posted you acknowledge that your mm/xmm isn't exactly on a even keel himself. Something I find strange is that you said......he would never lie to me. Very naive for you to assume that and since you both are in NC.....you seem to be just as obsessed with her reading your site as she is with you.

If she has not threatened you, I don't see how you will have a prayer in hell of having a case against her. Also if she is really unbalanced.......and the reading of your website is the crux of your problem with her, then maybe you should just let it ride if there aren't any threats as trying to bring charges against her might push her too far and then you may have bigger problems on your hands.

 

Maybe you missed my prior post in your thread but something similar happened to me but I in no way considered it stalking, I certainly understood why she was doing it and those reasons have already been covered here.

 

If I were you, I'd be examining why you want to further involve yourself in this mess and with a man who seems to have a lot of issues and again, you are either niave or foolish to think he wouldn't lie to you.

 

My 2 cents worth..........

[flying]

She has texted my telephone only a few weeks ago. That is direct contact.

 

I have all the data of every visit.

 

Definitions:

 

Under the United States Code Title 18 Subsection 1514©1. Harassment is defined as "a course of conduct directed at a specific person that causes substantial emotional distress in such a person and serves no legitimate purpose".

 

or

 

Harassment in the workplace can further be clarified as any conduct that creates significant anguish to another person, with the intent to bother, scare or emotionally abuse her.

 

or

While some conduct involving annoying or menacing behavior might fall short of illegal stalking, such behavior may be a prelude to stalking and violence and should be treated seriously.

 

or

Make no mistake: this kind of harassment can be as frightening and as real as being followed and watched in your neighborhood or in your home.

-Vice President Al Gore

 

I think the trouble with this is that if she's just passively reading your website, without making direct threats or even commenting at all, it would be very difficult for you to define her intent as emotional abuse or even just distress. I mean, what is a legitimate purpose, exactly? I spend hours reading LS for amusement, visit multiple times a day. Is that "legitimate"?

 

I don't know if she threatened you in those texts, but if not, I don't think there's much you can do.

 

Seriously, you don't seem to really have a case here; nothing is concrete. You're annoyed, but it doesn't seem like you're in danger. Unless, as was said before, she has actually threatened you in some manner, via text or other media? Still not clear on the answer to that.

 

You could make your website private for the time being, of course.

Edited January 20, 2011 by flying

[dreamingoftigers]

Alright, I will start by responding to some of your quotes, they should answer some of your questions. If they don't, PM me.

 

I gave her the opportunity to talk to me. She declined. She has been stalking me for over 6 months with over 4,000 page views. She does this sometimes 6-7 times a day. This is beyond curiosity.

 

At the offset of discovering my H's transgressions, I would view the messages he sent OW often, sometimes a few times a day. It has been 1.5 years since I found out. I will probably review them tonight. I have viewed them about once every 3 weeks to a month in recent times.

 

He hasn't made a choice yet. When we went NC he told me he would let me know when he has made a final decision.

 

This is not healthy. Viewing your blog may not be healthy, but waiting for this is not healthy. Go and live your life away from this trainwreck before you get lost in the debris, if it hasn't already happened.

 

I'm sure he did beg her. The same way he begged me. He is waffly that way. And unstable... yes, I believe she is unstable. She has demonstrated those behaviors long before we got into an affair.

 

Waffly is the same as unstable. Waffly means they stand by nothing. Waffly means that he is back and forth. Waffly means that you will get hurt. You getting hurt in a waffly relationship means that that effect will trickle down to your children, it always does. Your choice, but you may not have thought of it.

 

Yes, I do believe that. We know each other for many years. He has even come to my own IC session. My therapist remarked that we know each other so well we can practically finish each others sentences. He told me everything about his former indiscretion. Yes, I believe it.

 

Has your therapist also shared with you how unhealthy this type of relationship is? The fact that you believe in him etc. does not make this any healthier. Healthy means having personal integrity. I'll even leave the fact that he is married out of this, he is not someone who has followed through on what he has said/promised. As someone pushing for a healthy existence for herself, this should present itself as such a red flag, it is not worth risking. Feelings that you develop for another should not eclipse the basic mental framework of being able to tell a healthy mate from an unhealthy one. Be healthy, seek healthy.

 

I don't put anything out there publically that I'd be ashamed to show. The level of interest concerns me though. 5-10 hours a week viewing my site is excessive. That energy could be placed on fixing her personal issues (we all have those) and her marriage. Instead, it is focused outwardly, toward me.

 

Now, as a BS I would bluntly not be interested in what any of H's OWs would have to say about what _I_ should be doing to recover from adultery. Or what _I_ should be doing in my marriage. In fact, I would feel so entitled as to tell them what they should be doing in my marriage... nothing. They should have nothing to do with it at all.

 

Part of being healthy is maintaining healthy boundaries. It means not expending energy on effecting people's choices and what they do. It means respecting other people's choices. If you feel compelled to do anything helpful, it would simply be to steer clear and apologize.

 

Right now her personal issues include being traumatized by you. Truly the OW that say they did not hurt the BS is really lying to themselves, perhaps out of ignorance. Every single one of my H's OW hurt me deeply. I have trouble trusting other women in my life at all. I barely trusted one of my best friends for years on the off chance that she might suck my husband's dick when I wasn't looking. When there have been multiple women, you feel threatened around every corner.

 

Every single one of his OW made it okay for him to betray me. They allowed it and made it okay. You made it okay for her to get traumatized and hurt, you did that. You and him.

 

In the past, when he remained true and completely trustworthy, she continued to stalk his ow for many years afterward, even after the ow moved 2,000 away and got married. This is beyond a concerned BW.

 

Trauma reaction. Duh. This woman has no real control in her life, it keeps getting undermined in this joke of a marriage. If the H truly cared about her at all he would get her help. Cheating on her makes things worse. For everyone. Even you, look how depressingly entangled you are in this mess of people. Now you worry about getting stalked.

 

Part of the reason I would never become an OW was because I would never do that to another woman. (Even before I was married.)

 

As far as other people's comments about his words about his wife.... when he told me about certain things and I commented that it didn't sound good, he defended her. So I don't think it was some sort of ploy to get me on his side. He actually did not see that these behaviors were not emotionally healthy for either one of them. He started to recognize them before we went NC, but said he wasn't emotionally healthy enough to put a stop to them and set some boundaries of his own. (Something he said he was working on in his own IC.)

 

Not. Your. Problem. Even as a girlfriend, even as a "soulmate." These things do not become your problem. Even the fact that my spouse has trouble with boundaries is not my problem, it is his.

Try reading up on: Boundaries Where You and I Begin.

 

I am not trying to be rude, but there are so many boundary violations in this situation, it is hard to get a map out to locate them all. As well, when a boundary violation is pointed out to you, you justify it. There isn't justification for treating yourself so badly to cross other people's boundaries.

 

Truly both you and the wife don't understand healthy boundaries. That isn't a coincidence. He has a type.

 

It has seemed to me throughout the course of your whole thread that you are trying to control him and cajole him to get the outcome you want. This is not healthy.

 

So here's what you know for sure;

 

He is a serial cheater.

 

She could be trying to figure out what her husband saw in you. You KNOW he is a serial cheater, but actually believe you are the only OW who is "special." HE is a serial cheater, but you call HER the unstable one? You have a public web site, and are yelling "stalker" because someone from her address is LOOKING at it??? You speak disparagingly about her because she has mental issues. Frankly, your thinking and actions ain't sounding too solid at this point either. I'm not sure but what you aren't right up there with her. I'm not saying that to be mean ---I just think your thinking is not very reality-based.

 

She's a little sharper in tone then I would choose, but truly in my experience often serial cheaters have immense verbal skill when it comes to connecting with OW. Men in general are not people who connect intimacy with talking. Men connect intimacy with actions. Right now he is NC with you. He has not committed to the divorce. That speaks volumes in itself. Furthermore his actions have not matched his words. Is there not anyone else you could be seeing? Perhaps someone whose actions match their words.

 

I don't worry about what she reads. I could care less what she reads.

 

So long as it isn't your blog.

 

I worry about the compulsion to do so, at such an alarming frequency. What does that say about her? It says that she has been traumatized and is looking for clues. Further on this later. I do understand there is trauma involved with being betrayed. It does sound like you have a vague understanding of this. So how long does one deal with that? 2 weeks? 2 months, 2 years? For me it has been 1.5 years and counting. At 8 months I was still a total wreck. Wait for a year and see if things start to settle, if you report it you will stir the pot and keep it going on longer. The threat should start to subside when you are out of her life and marriage for a year. Forever?

 

That compulsion is not healthy for her, it isn't healthy for their marriage, and it certainly doesn't allow me to move on.

 

And that is reason #8003 why we don't get involved in other's marriages. Move on regardless, lose the blog or don't. That is the real decision here.

 

And I can track the time of day and a lot of other detail. She's not showing it to her friends, unless her friends are hanging out at her house after midnight, or early in the morning. (And she may be showing it to her friends by emailing them a link because I have tracked different networks.)

 

Give up on it, if she isn't doing anything else (and I didn't either) let her keep watch until she discovers that there aren't anymore clues to be found. I was constantly looking for clues, and asking my husband for details that slowly came out of him. Your MM doesn't strike me as the type to be completely forthcoming, she is trying to find out what is missing from the puzzle. I still do this. I am not tethered to it. There hasn't been anything new in a long time, but I wait to see if there is some other angle that I didn't notice before.

 

Literally at the point of the betrayal, your life becomes split. You cannot believe that the life you had has become the life you now have. She can't reconcile it. Quite frankly I somewhat can now, but only because I had trauma therapy. The only way my mind was able to swallow what my H was up to was by believing that he went back to Saskatchewan and died just before I found out. It seems like I am living with a completely different person.

 

There is a lot more info that I have that I'm not sharing because THIS is a public forum. Schemas she did to trick him into believing she was somewhere that she wasn't. A lot of stuff that is a little bit out there. Again, I know that BS have experienced a trauma. What concerns me is STAYING in the trauma mode and NOT getting psychological help to get out of that.

 

This is not your concern unless she is doing something threatening to you. I would guess that you want her to leave trauma mode and fix herself up because on some weird level you know that you share responsibility in this and in this great hurt. And now the guilt is biting you in the ass. She may not believe in psychological help. Now what can you do with that? She isn't going to move the way you want because you will it to be so. Just the same as she isn't going to stop viewing your public website because you launch a complaint that has no grounds. I am sure what concerns her is you making a re-entry into her marriage. It has been 8 months, it is pretty clear even just from a statistical viewpoint that MM is not leaving home. Work through your guilt. Set up some boundaries about it. Forgive yourself and move on.

 

I do believe it was his first affair-of-the-heart because of the emotional work him and I had to do to get passed certain issues. Certain physical responses can't be faked. As I said, we know each other better than most people do. I knew him better than I knew my former husband. And he certainly knows me better than anyone I have ever met.

 

I wonder what responses these would be. No really, just curious.

 

Apparently knowing someone does not mean that they will choose you. Even if they only stay for the money, the kids, the dog or their favorite pizza that only she can make, it is their priority. And their choice. Knowing him better does not entitle you to anything. Not saying that you should feel no pain over this, but it is better to accept that then to kick against reality in grief and frustration.

 

I also believe that his affairs have been because there was something always amiss in his relationship with her. It would get far too personal in explaining why. Let's just say he has always swept problems under the rug and not faced them. And when that happens things do not change. Couple that with not having 'a pair' to speak up about grievances, and that can be a problem.

 

These are all signs that this individual is not a healthy person to involve yourself in a relationship with. Healthy men makes their needs know, they deal with what is "amiss" in a relationship instead of searching in other women for the answers. They also change the dynamic in their own life to create change.

 

His fear has only been enabled by you. You have enabled him to be dysfunctional in dealing with the feelings he may have about his marital problems. Her looking at your website does not anywhere near compare to the damage caused to this relationship whether you are OW #1 or OW #1001.

 

I have literally witnessed him do something like this, "I like the color blue". - Her, "You don't like blue, you like black". - Him, "You are right, I don't know what I was thinking. I like black." He has even tried to get me to change my experience of things to match what she wanted him to believe. It's really scary, and really psychologically twisted.

 

Again, healthy boundaries. And most healthy men would respond "No dear, I believe that I like blue. Blue is a mighty fine colour." And if she grew insistent he would hold his ground and say, "Blue is the colour I like for now, take it or leave it, sorry that you are having trouble accepting this."

 

I have also have him recount the few incidents I had with her from a very skewed point of view. Where I had to say.... wait a minute, you left out this part, and that part. (Parts that would make the situation more balanced and not just her the innocent victim.) These are not incidents he told me about, but ones that I was part of, so I have my own knowledge of actual events. (not opinions, but events that she omitted to make her point of view more palpable.)

 

She may be unhealthy as all Hell. She may be the most personality-screwed demon from Hell. (I am not getting into physical abuse talk when I say this). He knows his way out, his hand is on the exit bar. If he isn't going through it, that is his choice. A healthy gf would respect that. The fact that you are so concerned with judging their relationship tells me that you are not healthy, and therefore not ready to have a relationship of this magnitude, especially with the way that the fallout will most likely happen in this one. I wish you luck on other endeavours but this is just a disaster. Her health or lack thereof doesn't really get helped by you being the OW.

 

I believe that BW has Borderline Personality Disorder. I believe she has been abusing him for a very long time, which is why things are so weird for all of us.

 

There are a couple of things about this:

 

1. If she does have Borderline (btw I was diagnosed with this when younger) it is now treatable. There are wonderful programs for this and if MM truly cared for her enough as another human being he would be checking into her mental health instead of discovering new territory of the heart. Whether or not he feels the love with her, he did vow in sickness and in health.

 

2. Just about the worst thing you can do to someone with those issues is cheat on them. Unless you are trying to get rid of them because cheating on them tends to bring out the impulsive suicidal behaviours linked with the very disease.

 

3. There shouldn't be an "all of us." The fact that there are 3 people with no boundary resolve makes it weird. As well as the fact that there is an "all of us." If there wasn't an "all of us," it wouldn't be weird for "all of us."

 

 

This other thread explains well what people go through in those situations. (I have btdt so I know how hard it is to break away, even when you want to.)

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=3128956&postcount=4

 

I think there is a sort of traumatic bonding happening.

 

Oh there's enough traumatic bonding to go around this whole situation.

 

My blog, really a website, has been in existence since 1999. It was, and always has been present on the web for professional reasons. Believe me, I have thought about shutting her out. But it's not that simple because doing that, also shuts me out on professional things.

 

I have only known about her tracking me for a few weeks. She's been doing it for far longer than I've known about it.

 

And absolutely, I am a bit obsessed with her tracking me. I admit it. I think most people would react the same way if they knew someone was stalking them.

 

Stalking is not the same and tracking and reading things in a public forum. Google the definition of stalking. You are obsessed, she's obsessed and then there is this one guy in the middle. How come no one has guessed the common link? How come no one ever gets the common link?

 

So it comes down to a decision: keep the website and accept the consequences or tear it down and accept the consequences. Why are you trying to avoid any consequences? You have taken actions that mean it is time to pay the piper. (I am not suggesting that she have any type of free-reign over you, just accepted the fact she will study you, grow to know why, and move on.)

 

Actually we didn't until near the end. It was pretty simple and easy requiring no schemas. She was doing these schemas the whole time they have been married. I haven't been part of their life that long.

 

Doesn't matter.....not your marriage.

 

 

From both partners. If you create a hostile environment to be your authentic self, then you become inauthentic. If you aren't authentic, you aren't connected to your partner, and often, you aren't even connected to yourself, if you do it long enough. People always make it black and white. I suppose it IS black and white when you are dealing with people who are emotionally healthy. It's not so b&w when they aren't.

 

They are not the only ones here who need to become healthy. The fact that you entangled yourself in this situation even as a friend would send the biggest radar to anyone around you who knew what was going on: you are not healthy enough to find and figure out what is good for you. Get away from this altogether. The healthy thing to do would be to focus on something else, not try to psychoanalyze the wife. That isn't your job. Your job is not to judge the character of your MM's wife. You only job is to respect their choices and their marriage. That's what we call a healthy boundary.

 

But some of it is because he is deeply enmeshed in a unhealthy codependent relationship.

 

You are waiting for a MM who has more issues then the UN to pick you while consuming yourself with what the wife has/has not done to him. You are deeply enmeshed in an unhealthy codependent relationship that you are NC in no less. Check and see if there are codependent support groups in your area, I go to one, it's great.

 

 

Of course it isn't. That just illustrates that maybe, the reason why he did it, lack of cojones and all, is because SHE wasn't a good fit for him. I don't believe in the concept of "once a cheater..." I believe in the concept of being in the wrong relationship (for whatever reason) and not facing the facts and getting out of it.

 

This would be a choice that reflects character, and in his case it isn't "once a cheater." It would seem that the dysfunctional behaviour of his wife is how he justifies the dysfunctional behaviour of cheating.

 

I've never been in her face. I let her completely verbally pummel me. And when she asked if I had something to say, I said no. (Because I didn't want to add to her hurt.)

 

There is one thing that might have been an okay move.

 

That's precisely the issue. He has told me many times that he has trouble recalling the past because she has convinced him, so thoroughly to believe an alternative reality, one that works for her.

 

This is not on her, it is on him. I have been in relationship this messed up, you claw your way out if you have to, but reality is still reality. He is with her for a reason.

 

When he tried to pull that on me, I told him that I WAS THERE, and that is not what happened and that he shouldn't let his reality be someone else's version of it, when they weren't even in the room!

 

Sounds like he wanted it one way, then blamed the wife, sorry. Been there.

 

He said that is part of the problem. He goes in with one objective, to discuss a problem that troubles him, and walks out of the room, completely turned around thinking everything is his fault, even when it isn't. (And the problem remains unresolved because as far as she is concerned, the problem doesn't exists if she doesn't acknowledge it.)

 

Then this is when you lay down the line and exit stage left if you are him. Not get other people involved with your personal emotional issues. Especially unqualified people that are trying to have intimate relationships with you.

 

They both have serious issues. He has lied a lot in the past. But not to me. He lies to himself more than anyone else, usually as a defense mechanism to not deal with difficult issues. He hates confrontation. He told me that I am the only person that he feels free to speak his mind to because I don't condemn him from having a different point of view than my own. I never said that he was completely emotionally sound. But, he is very high functioning and you would never know this about him unless you got as close that I have.

 

Conflict-avoidant people tend to be the ones that cheat. They also tend to be with argumentative spouses. I see from your thread that same tendency to argue, justify and self-victimize. I am not trying to insult you but these I things that I see. If you go with him long-term I can guarantee 99.9% that he will cheat on you, and in a much shorter time span. He may not have lied to you yet, but you are next in line. People that lie do not discriminate indefinitely.

 

Regarding your repeated remarks about me having sex with her husband... None of that gives license to act the way she has been acting, before and after the affair. It's still not normal behavior. I do understand the trauma involved and the hurt. But at a certain point, if you want to recover and regain any trust in a relationship, you do have to let it go. If you continue to allow yourself to relive the trauma over and over, you do neither.

 

Normal behaviour is not sleeping with another's spouse, she is not the only one guilty of abnormal behaviour. The average affair takes 2 - 5 years to recover from. So supposedly she has 4 years and months to let it go and recover. Hopefully you don't have to try to recover from something like that, if you do keep us posted.

 

Yes all of that. But I have let go trying to rescue him. I didn't break him and it isn't my job to fix him. I'm not trying to fix him, but I still haven't given up 'thinking' about fixing him. It's a process.

 

If you think about it, the thinking about fixing him, fixing him etc. should be easier to heal from then an affair. Perhaps give the wife the same amount of time.

 

No as I said my website is there for professional reason. I've been tracking data for several years now. It's part of what I do for a living. I just stopped tracking during the past year because I was very busy. But once I resumed, I saw the spike and said, Holy S#&T!

 

Maybe she is getting you some referrals. (Just kidding, really)

 

I am getting help because being involved with people who are like this can mess an emotionally normal person up. And my counselor told me that she thinks I am pretty normal and believes this relationship pushed me in to new territory. I know he is getting help too which is one of the reasons we went NC. (So he can work out his stuff without dragging me through his emotional turmoil). I don't know if she is.

 

If he is getting help then that is a start, hopefully he healthily ends or repairs his marriage. It does sound like you have a ways to go. Those support groups can be very helpful.

 

Why is it on these forums that the minute a partner is unfaithful, all other behavior by the BS is suddenly not important? BS often do contribute to the problem.

 

Because the BS aren't the issue in question. OW are being brought up by the king, through the dark chambers of the castle to depose the queen in a dark manner. No wife deserves that and whatever the MM and OW serve up is looked at as far worse. It's like bringing a gun to a yelling match. No one cares who yelled first and loudest.

 

I know about this behavior because he told me about it, 3 years before we started having an affair. And I was like, "Huh, and you put up with this? Why? This is not normal." His reaction... but she was hurt. - Me: yeah... and how long ago was that? years ago. Something is wrong here.

 

Something is wrong when support crosses over into EA and PA. Why have you formed a bond that seems based on rescuing someone. What is your background?

 

I think it is a little different because OW's future is determined on the fate of MM's M. It usually isn't the case the other way around, especially if WS has chosen to work on the M.

 

This is 100% a justification to keep you involved in an emotionally-destructive, obsessive, unhealthy relationship, if only from a distance. And by contacting MM and police, you are upping the ante. This is not reflective of concern for anyone else but filling something that is damaged in you. You want to save him, you want the validation and you continue to want to villify her. If what I said rings any bells, get some help.

 

The OW here should make her own future a priority and not wait on others to make it for her. Set a boundary and a timeline for him to be out if you need it.

 

Of course it isn't the OW's call. But those were his words. And just because people stay in a relationship doesn't mean it is good for them. Having a piece a paper, or being there "first" doesn't make it a good fit.

 

Neither does knowing someone better. The position of wife does entitle one to support and love as far as humanly possible. If you were genuinely mentally ill, would you want a mate that stepped out on you, or one that focused on getting you help. I can tell you what this MM would be.

 

However, the months - years spent by an outsider with their nose pressed against the window of others' M is amazing. Words such as "codependent relationship", are thrown out there - when this is actually a M between two Close people.

 

I am sure that you do not really know what you are dealing with. You have been given conflicting perspectives from 3 different people that aren't healthy. Him, her and yourself.

 

Those are my own issues that I wasn't aware of. I'm like that in all relationships, not just romantic ones. It's part of my makeup. I'm learning from my mistakes.

 

Hopefully before your re-entry into this situation escalates. I think perhaps seeking a second counseling opinion may be a good idea. I am speaking from genuine concern here.

 

If you believe in that hocus pocus. Not everyone does.

 

I forget what this was in reference to.

 

I might point out I've done nothing to her either. He hurt her. My role was an enabler, but I did nothing to hurt her directly and I did a lot to not further her hurt when I could have. (I have a lot of information that I could have revealed but chose to stay out of it and let him deal with her. It's not my place to inform her of information she has every right to know, from him.)

 

It unendingly blows my mind that OW believe this on any level. You and MM embezzled from their marital relationship. Essentially two people invest time, intimacy, emotions etc into a marriage. One person takes from the M and then shares an investment from the proceeds with the OW. You are using her funds to create your own investment. How do OW miss this?

 

Here's a thought....she does indeed appear to be insecure.[/quote

 

For how long? A year? 10 years? A lifetime? At what point is there a statue of limitations. I know that her behavior never changed even after he had proven to be faithful for 10 years after his first unfaithful encounter. Those behaviors were the same from her d-day with him 10 years ago, up until the time he and I started our affair. And I KNOW he was faithful to her. But under the microscope of suspicion all the time is not a comfortable place to be. It does not build trust. It actually does the opposite.

 

Again for how long? Forever? If I don't trust my partner, I end the relationship. PERIOD.

 

You should probably run for the hills now, he has not demonstrated trustworthiness, these characteristics don't spring up overnight.

 

I HAVE been there. I chose to believe in my partner and give him the chance to trust again. You can't build emotionally intimacy if you don't chose to trust. It just can't happen because you have walls up that prevent it from happening. And it worked. We rebuilt trust. When I finally ended my relationship with this person, it wasn't because of jealousy, fear, suspicion. Is was for reasons completely unrelated.

 

If you have been there as much as you say you have, you would understand the W. You also wouldn't have gone there with another woman's man. You also wouldn't believe that the OW never hurt the wife. Quite frankly, I don't believe you.

 

Yes, it is surprising that someone would behave this way for over 10 years. It spells serious psychological issues.

 

So does being in an affair of this magnitude.

 

We got close while I was in the middle of a very difficult divorce. I really was in far too deep before I even understood there were issues like that. He hid them so well under the guise of having a perfect life. He inspired me to do the same with my life. Little did I know his "perfect life" was play acting and not at all real.

 

Lack of integrity.

 

There have been moments of clarity and the general moving target goes in the same direction. There are parts that are true and parts that are unknown. I have been able to uncover what was true and what is still a question mark over time, and in therapy. My therapist did meet him and agrees that I have made a pretty accurate assessment of the situation. (And he shared a few things about his background with her. He was quite open in fact.)

 

This does not mean in any way that you should be in any way even a fraction of the smallest part of their marriage or waiting for their marriage to deteriorate to decide your future.

 

I think it's more a symptom of THIS relationship, not all relationships. He does have a weak sense of inner core. I know from reading a lot about trauma and abuse that people are totally different around their abusers than they are with everyone else.

 

This would be his responsibility to fix, you should have nothing to do with that. Him cheating isn't going to fix that core either.

 

I'm doing my best to work this out on my own. You can't erase how you feel, you can only try to refocus your thoughts. I'm not waiting for him, but I still do have hope. I'm trying to get to a place where I no longer have hope. That is something you can't will away. It just has to happen.

 

Perhaps leaving the wife to be doing whatever it is she is doing would help to ease that dynamic a little more instead of re-opening a can of worms.

 

I have made him aware that she is doing this. He told me he would take care of it.

 

That wasn't necessary, now she can know that you know and now she has even less level of comfort knowing you contacted her husband about it.

 

QUOTE]

 

 

She kind of makes it my business when she visits me so often.

 

She initiates nothing and probably doesn't even realize that you are tracking it. It is actually none of your business what she does with her spare time unless it is trying to harm you.

 

Since when is making a person feel watched not harassment?

 

When it is in a public domain saying "watch me."

 

I don't know. I love this man dearly, but I'm not sure that I want to be enmeshed with someone who has THAT much emotional work to do for himself...and deal with an ex-spouse who is even worse.

 

Then leave it completely alone, stop justifying it by saying your future is decided on it, and move right on, quickly.

 

We'll have to see what kind of progress he makes in his own therapy and whether he does the work to truly earn back my trust. I won't be with someone I don't trust and right now, I don't trust him. (I trust him in terms of fidelity but I don't trust him in terms of care of my emotions.)

 

This is the smartest thing you have said all thread.

 

I have done my best to do this. I do not engage in any unnecessary conversation with him. It's been a process of ebbs and flows. I am much stronger in the early part of the week after a weekend then in the later part of the week when I have had to deal with him. He constantly does fishing expeditions and I'm not always able to conceal what I'm feeling from coming through in my voice. And he's very, very good at detecting that.

 

Perhaps a different job?

 

I never said I was perfect. I'm doing my best to NOT care what he does. But I do care so it's pretty hard to lie to yourself. That's the work I'm doing.

 

What do you do other then work and your kids? Perhaps some other type of fufillment is lacking?

 

That IS what he is doing, getting a lot of help. And, I think it was the relationship, not the person. He never cheated on any other relationship other than with her. I believe it is that he never really wanted to BE with her but for a lot of reasons that I can't disclose he ended up with her.

 

People don't stay in long-term relationships unless they are getting some kind of payoff from it. Don't just discount it right out the gate.

 

Him and I had much better communication so while I do know he has a lot of communication work he needs to do, part of the lack of skills came from his inability COMBINED with her inability. I'm more of a nip something in the bud kind of person which led to him and I having better communication with each other. I always create the space that he could tell me news that I didn't like without going off the deep end. And that does make a difference, especially to people who fear open-communication.

 

Perhaps this is a skill you can bring to a healthier relationship in the future.

 

I agree that it was BOTH their problem. When he did communicate they had lost their connection, she told him that wasn't true. So here lies some of the problem. When your partner says they have lost their connection with you, you better stand up and listen, not tell them it isn't true.

 

Still their marriage to govern how they wish.

 

The first step is acknowledging you aren't happy. He didn't acknowledge it at first. He talked about situations that would make many people angry or upset without any iota of feeling at all. It was very weird. I suspect both of them do that. It's a coping mechanism to not look at problems and deal with them. Because dealing with them can be very painful.

 

Typical stance, one partner over-attaching, another under-attaching.

 

I know he did, because as his friend, years before, I witnessed him try and try over an again. He did some of the most romantic things I have ever witnessed. I helped him buy her jewelry. She was say thanks and never wear it. She never went out of her way for him to do anything. One day he shared that with me and asked me what he was doing wrong, and what he needed to do. I didn't know what to say because that is not how I would have responded to his gestures. I tried many times to find a reason for her behavior and excuse it because I don't make judgement on people quickly, especially from 2nd hand information. But it seemed clear to me that she felt he needed to do penance for the rest of his life.

 

What he needed to do was set boundaries and limits. Then set a bottom line.

 

They may have been present before his affair too. Given the depth of these issues, I think it was. I know what his prematurity issues were, and they were serious. So I can imagine that she was just as deeply damage coming into it too.

 

Typically spouses match each other in terms of emotional health. That is why I find it funny when OW say that the wife is a crazy bitch. I know exactly what that says about the H.

 

I've HAVE been cheated on by a long term partner. And I've been the OW thrown under the bus. Believe me when I tell you, neither trumps the other in terms of emotional devastation. The betrayal I feel as an OW who has been thrown under the bus, so to speak is equally as damaging.

 

Long-term partner is not a husband. There is nothing quite like the loss of a husband. Except god fobid the loss of another family member. You know as well as I that the bond goes deeper for women with marriage.

 

If you were in a relationship that was abusive, that you didn't really want to be in, but were too weak emotionally to get out of it, you might cheat. That doesn't make you an unfaithful person by nature. I don't believe in "once a cheater always a cheater... I know more than a few married couples in their 2nd marriages who started them as affairs. They have never cheated on their current spouses because they were in the RIGHT relationship.

 

He cheated multiple times, there was plenty of room for exits.

 

I would agree. I don't believe "once a cheater, always a cheater". I DO believe however that "twice a cheater, always a cheater".

 

Twice shows a behavior, not a single instance of poor judgement and bad boundaries.

 

Agreed with the man.

 

I probably can't add much more to this thread, other than reiterating the point that she's not "stalking", but keeping track of a situation that she (rightfully) perceives as a threat to her marriage, and to her personal well-being. If she's taken no overt action or communication with you, there's probably little to nothing you can do about it.

 

Agreed with the man again.

 

I don't agree that twice proves that it is the person when the conditions that caused the original cheating remain unchanged. (Same person, same relationship, same unresolved issues.) It would be more of a smoking gun if he had cheated on multiple partners.

 

It is a smoking gun that he did nothing to change his dynamic, and you only have his word to go on for the other relationships.

 

For how long? She's been doing this for more than 8 months. How long is it reasonable to expect her to get a grip and to stop watching me, and leave me alone. She emailed me directly a few weeks ago with messages and photos that were meant to provoke me. (I did not respond to her but did mention that she did this to him. I said it was inappropriate for her to contact me and try to pull me back into something I'm no longer a part of.)

 

8 months will not guarantee her emotional divorce from your affair, you haven't even emotionally divorced it yet.

 

And um no sorry pain of the other woman does not even compare because the ow went into the relationship with her eyes wide open. WIDE OPEN while the wife was clueless.

 

Agreed with this one over here.

 

This is common cheater speak. I never wanted to marry her...VERY COMMON.

 

Agreed. In my case my husband pushed and pushed and pushed fro us to get married, I wasn't ready at all. Then when his cheating BS started it was all "this marriage was a mistake, I shouldn't have done it." Then he digs his head from his ass "I don't want to lose this marriage, it's the best."

 

 

Don't ever presume to be in someone else's head and know how they feel. You don't know what transpired between us and what was promised and the lengths went to, You don't know what goes on in MMs head or his W's head. I thought I knew my husband inside and out. Guess what? You never know anyone truly inside and out.

 

He didn't say that. I say this after I have processed hundreds of pieces of information that he has told me over the years. You aren't privy to the past information in his life that would make this assessment valid. He described his former relationships what they were like, WHY he got into them. Most, he admits he got into for reasons other than love and attraction and more about not wanting to be on the receiving end of being dumped.

 

Well now it seems that he has the OW that will wait on him. Are you sure that you want to be part of this pattern, do you even see it?

 

I've discussed his issues extensively in therapy and my therapist also believes that it is unlikely that he married her for any of the right reasons that people marry. (She met him and had a conversation with him too. He told her of his childhood experiences.)

 

Your therapist is extremely poor at keeping professional boundaries then. I suggest you look up what a therapist is supposed to keep as boundaries and seek out a more professional one. They may be able to help you better.

 

Your responses seem colored by your own experience.

 

Pot, meet kettle.

 

From someone who has been in a relationship that isn't working, it can often take years to come to the conclusion that the issues cannot be corrected. And even once you do that reflection and own it, it still can be quite a journey to actually do the leaving. It took me 3-4 years to get a divorce after I was 150% sure that it was necessary.

 

Did you cheat? No?

 

If the relationship is emotionally abusive where self-esteem is involved, control, degrading, gas-lighting etc, then it can be even harder.

 

Agreed, but even harder still if you cheat and feel all of the guilt pressing down on top of you even harder. Best not to do it.

 

 

And btw... what makes you think the OW is without feelings?

 

In my case (and in other people's cases), my MM made promises to have a future with me. He discussed co-parenting and growing old together. He guaranteed to me that the divorce would happen and that I just needed to be patient. He even took my kid to an amusement park with his own children as a sign of faith that he was dead serious about his intentions.

 

He believed his own promises so why wouldn't I? He wanted to protect her from hurt as much as he could which is part of the reason why she found out.. .because it dragged out too long. His wife was supposed to never find out about us and he wanted to gracefully get out of the marriage with as much of her dignity intact. Her finding out made all the progress he made in discussing the "issues" between them go backwards.

 

Do you think OW in general have no heart? Do you think they get involved in these things out of malice? Don't you think they are just like everyone else, looking for love, looking for a connection? Even if it is misplaced? Knowing the person is involved is still attached to someone can be somewhat irrelevant when you don't have good boundaries, and, when you sincerely believe in your heart of hearts that your MM knows what he is doing and it will all turn out for the best for everyone.

 

How is having all of your dreams of a future with someone, that bubble burst any different than the hurt a betrayed spouse has? You get the affection that a spouse craves when you HAVE OTHER OPTIONS! Seriously. Aren't the feelings exactly the same? The sleepless nights, the weight loss? The endless bouts of crying? Seriously. How is that experience any different?

 

Because you walk into a place where you are no supposed to be, you choose to ignore all of the warning signs and stake your own claim where one has already been staked, and publicly at that! Then when the stake is re-claimed you play victim to poor politics. People that cheat are still married for a reason. If they didn't want to be married, they wouldn't be. It isn't exactly the same, your fantasy is supposed to be the BSs reality. You fantasy is very much lived off of the work the BS puts in and the joy that they are supposed to take from their marriage. It is parasitic. By being a wife to my husband, I take nothing from an OW, they take from me. Cry all you want, but you are the one caught stealing. Just because you want the bright shiny toy, doesn't mean it is yours. If I work my ass off to buy a brand new car for a year, and you come along and steal it and then I get it back, sure you are sad that you don't have my car. But you didn't put half the effort of time into getting it. I feel no sorrow for you. Neither should any W.

 

I can tell you. The OW gets to experience these feelings alone since for the most part, the MM cowers back to his wife where they at least get to deal with these feelings together. And in many cases, she gets the brunt of society scorn when she isn't the one in a committed relationship, the MM is.

 

The BS gets looked upon like there was something so wrong and sexually withholding for something like this to happen in her marriage. I feel humiliated in front of the people that know. I also feel like a dirty slut for sleeping with my husband and I am not the one that stepped out. I am sure that this isn't unusual.

 

It's pretty simple. He stated facts, and I put those facts together and interpreted them.

 

Perhaps your interpretation was coloured by your own experience.

 

Not everyone has shallow relationships. I believe him. She also (when she confronted me) confirmed that the other relationships were flings. (as she implied that mine was with him.)

 

She sees your relationship with him as equal to the others. That may tell you something.

 

He never knocked his marriage. He actually maintained that he was happier than a clam while at the same time, telling me about terrible marriage busters. He didn't even have enough insight to register that the things he had to deal with was NOT ok. The things he said to me were akin to someone telling me that their husband beats them but they don't mind because they deserved it because they provoked them. The only difference is they were verbal, not physical. I don't think he lied about those things.

 

If he didn't see a problem, yet he was cheating with you, that should tell you something.

 

Not every MM cheater is a player which is what some of you continue to imply. Some are. Perhaps it makes bs sleep better or night. But it's an emotionally dishonest interpretation. Come to think about it, that's how he ended up in this predicament. Two lost souls living together being emotionally dishonest with themselves and each other. No wonder they never got through these issues. How could you when the real person is never present?

 

What makes you think after ending it NC for 8 months that you ever even saw the real person? The person you thought he was would be beside you now, right?

 

Some people really are generally confused and lost human beings without premeditated contempt or manipulation.

 

And some people aren't.

 

You mean all those things he promised his wife first that he neglected to take back from his wife before telling you those same things?

 

This should be a flag!

 

This thread is filled with a bunch of bitter BS's trying to get their rocks off. In some affairs what they have to say is true. The problem is they predominate these discussions and what they have to say is only true SOME of the time. Yet it is taken as gospel. I'm not returning to this thread because there is no benefit for me to do so.

 

Feel free to PM because I wouldn't mind corresponding with you.

 

I have told MM about it. He said he would handle it. I'm waiting and continuing to collect enough data to make a case.

 

I am seeing a little internal incongruency here.

 

Nonetheless I will PM you. It seems that when someone offers you up a differing opinion then the answer you are looking for, you ascribe and emotional trait to them to dismiss them. This is a similar pattern that you ascribe to the W. I find that interesting and goes with my personal theory that the OW often presents much like the wife did in the beginning of their relationship. And that is why often MM/OW relationship become just as or even more conflict-ridden then the marriage that was left behind.

[dreamingoftigers]

Wow, that is the longest post I have ever done on LS. I hope there isn't some community guideline about this. I am never doing that again. Enjoy.

[whichwayisup]

Wow, that is the longest post I have ever done on LS. I hope there isn't some community guideline about this. I am never doing that again. Enjoy.

 

Amazing..Awesome insight, responses and respect. I DO hope A.L reads what you wrote and really takes to heart what you've said and realizes the effort you just went through, the time it took to reply to her..i hope it makes her stop and think too.

[artemis-love]

I glanced over your thread again and I didn't see any mention of her threatening you and from what you've posted you acknowledge that your mm/xmm isn't exactly on a even keel himself.

 

There is a lot of information that I chose not to reveal because this BS is everywhere. The more information I give out, the more she can put 2+2 together. But that information changes perspective. I merely brought the whole situation up because others here were speaking about the OW stalking the BS. I'm showing a situation in the reverse.

 

She has reached out, and continues to reach out to me in other ways, much more directly for no other purpose than to harang me. (I already let her do this several times. I don't need to "let" her do it anymore. I think she has had ample time to give me a piece of her mind.)

 

Look I'm NC with AP and have been for some time. If she's still thinking about me that's a problem for him and her, and most definitely the marriage. I am obsessed with her watching me. Who wouldn't be? You start to wonder what a person is trying to do with it. That and the fact that I wonder what other methods she has used to obtain info about me. She found stuff that I didn't even know was out there. Nothing bad or incriminating in any way, but to know someone has devoted that much energy on you, in an unhealthy way puts all kinds of fear in your mind about what ELSE they could do, and will do.

[artemis-love]

Nonetheless I will PM you. It seems that when someone offers you up a differing opinion then the answer you are looking for, you ascribe and emotional trait to them to dismiss them. This is a similar pattern that you ascribe to the W. I find that interesting and goes with my personal theory that the OW often presents much like the wife did in the beginning of their relationship. And that is why often MM/OW relationship become just as or even more conflict-ridden then the marriage that was left behind.

 

There is a lot of internal incongruity because I feel it a lot of it.

 

I'm not going to address everything point to point.

 

All I will say is I have known in for many years, so the boundary issues that happened were crossed extremely slowly over a long sustained period of time when I was contemplating my own divorce.

 

I most certainly have boundary issues, and they have been omnipresent for my entire life. Essentially letting people cross the line by being easy-going about small little infractions.

 

I KNOW this situation is not healthy for me. That's why I'm trying to work it out. It IS a process and it takes time. This is one of the most TRAUMATIC experiences I have ever experienced. And what I "know" in my head, and working it out are entirely different.

 

But of the three people in this drama triangle, I'm probably the most grounded because at least I recognize when I'm feeling or acting out in unhealthy ways. (Mostly feeling because for the most part, my impulse control is strong. I don't send emails, texts, make phone calls or do any of the stuff that has been coming at me.)

 

And I see now that I played the rescuer roll. (That's been my roll for my entire life, not just with him.) I am the one who initiated NC after my expectations were not being met after d-day had come and gone. It took a lot for me to do so because he continues to maintain that he WILL do this, but can't tell me how long it will take.

 

It's difficult let go when you are in love with someone, even when you know the situation isn't good for you. And when you get a barrage of fishing expeditions at minimum once a week wrapped in a bow of "it's only work related" when it's spattered with all sorts of sub-text, it's hard.

 

Re him trying to get her help. He did try. She refused. The problem was all him so she didn't need to get help. All the problems they had in her relationship are because he cheated, or because he didn't do something right, ergo she was in no need of change. Any behaviors that are unhealthy are justified because she was hurt. You can bring a horse to drink but you can't force them to drink.

 

In my own healing, understanding all of it is helpful. I have let go (my presence in their life) and allow them to do whatever they are going to do. Doing so in my head is an entirely different story.

 

I don't want to say more.

[greengoddess]

Artemis honestly I don't get you. You are angry and lashing out at posters who are trying to force you to see reality. You seem to think your affair is different and that's what I don't get.

 

No matter how awful you think this guys wife is and how great for him you think you are the facts are still thiere. The guy is a serial cheater who had affairs before you and who will have affairs after you. His wife keeps taking him back and they thrive on the drama.

 

The biggest fact that you are not different is HE THREW YOU UNDER THE BUS. HE CHOSE to stay with his wife. He tells you he has not decided while having no contact with you. That means you are his back up plan if his wife can not forgive him.

 

Why do you want this? Why don't you want better for yourself.

 

Leave the wife alone. It is ludicrous to press harrassment charges on her for texting you or reading a blog when you were ****ing her husband for years.

 

I really hope you are not in an alienation of affection state because I guarentee you she will come after you and hard if you have the police pay her a visit. It will just ramp her up.

 

You might not see it this way but we are trying to help you. Nothing makes me angry than seeing a woman waste her life on a liar who has no intention of leaving his marriage.

[woinlove]

In my own healing, understanding all of it is helpful. I have let go (my presence in their life) and allow them to do whatever they are going to do. Doing so in my head is an entirely different story.

 

Yes, letting go can be extremely difficult, but ultimately is under your control. You can let go even when the other person doesn't. If you feel you are threatened, then you should seek protection from the law. But if you are simply worried because you have an obsessive BS who thinks ill of you, is likely to speak ill of you, and occasionally tries to contact you, then your best strategy is to be firm in moving on. Almost all affairs come with obsession and ill-will, and do involve the AP in the BS's life, but you don't have to carry these indefinitely. The choice is yours.

 

One simple step in moving on is to stop tracking visits to your website. If you need to do it for professional reasons, you can pay someone else to analyze the data in the way appropriate for your profession. But, again, if you believe you are being threatened, then do report it.

[donnamaybe]

This thread is filled with a bunch of bitter BS's trying to get their rocks off. In some affairs what they have to say is true. The problem is they predominate these discussions and what they have to say is only true SOME of the time. Yet it is taken as gospel. I'm not returning to this thread because there is no benefit for me to do so.

 

Feel free to PM because I wouldn't mind corresponding with you.

Um, I'm not a BS, and you have yet to respond to a single thing I've posted except to address the so-called "facts" fed to you by your MM. You don't know they are "facts" at all. You would have to see and hear things from the actual source (not a reporter of "facts" who has an obvious agenda) to know them as "facts."

 

As for there being no benefit for you in this thread, I would have to agree with you as it appears this thread was created in an effort to find folks willing to blow sunshine where it don't normally shine.

 

I'm all about people being happy together, but NOT at the expense of someone else. If he loves you so, and he is SO freakin' miserable in his M, why hasn't he left the M in two years? How long does he expect you to wait? I'm betting if you told him you weren't going to play the A game with him any more he would simply find another OW. And that's not a reflection on you. It's a reflection on HIM.

[BB07]

In my own healing, understanding all of it is helpful. I have let go (my presence in their life) and allow them to do whatever they are going to do. Doing so in my head is an entirely different story.

 

I don't want to say more.

 

artemis........it's clear you haven't let go, all the detailed explanations, all your musings about why she is as she is, and why he is as he is and why they are like they are. Try to stand back and look at what you've posted and ask yourself if someone who has let go would be posting all those details. Also.......you keep sidestepping the question asked about if she has made threats under the guise that you might be revealing too much. So.........I think if she had really threatened you, you'd be clear about that much at least. Again.......her viewing your site obsessively is to be expected. Happened to me and I ended up stopping updating it and then restarting it later. I think you'd be better off to stop looking at the tracking and stop thinking about him, her and them. Let it go......or you'll open a bigger can of worms.

[jthorne]

As for there being no benefit for you in this thread, I would have to agree with you as it appears this thread was created in an effort to find folks willing to blow sunshine where it don't normally shine.

Actually, I'd say it is to create drama where none exists.

I've been cyberstalked by a psycho ex-friend (and physically stalked by an exBF). Trust me, this isn't stalking... this is drama.

 

I had forgotten about the time when I was a kid... there was this crazy guy that stalked me because he was upset that my dad had fired him. He knew my entire schedule- even knew my locker combination at school. THAT is stalking.

Edited January 20, 2011 by jthorne

[Ladyblue]

Wow, that is the longest post I have ever done on LS. I hope there isn't some community guideline about this. I am never doing that again. Enjoy.

 

You made many a good point that hit home for me. As for me stating things in my posts harshly, I'm fresh out of a LT EA, and I am seeing many a harsh reality. There is nothing gentle or kind about what either of us did.

 

There was nothing gentle about what I/he/she did; there is nothing kind about the aftermath. It IS what it is. The OP is not a crushed flower. She needs to see the grim reality, just as I needed to, and she needs to get a grip!

 

There were many good points in your post, many aspects I had not considered both in application to her, and to me and my late A. One thing that did really jump out at me - she said that she and her counselor had discussed the MM's issues at length, and as you pointed out, that should NEVER have happened. That is so true. Either the therapist is a total incompetent --- or there is no therapist. I tend to believe the latter, since she also claims that the therapist asserts OP is emotionally healthy. I'm no psychologist, and h€ll, even I can see from an anonymous Internet post that OP is a train wreck. ( again, that may sound harsh, but it is what it is.)

 

I personally still think she should at least talk to the police. You can talk to them without filing a report. Then they can tell her if what she's experiencing with the Internet is cyberstalking or not. Personally, I think they will laugh in her face, but for #*%# sake, if she would go ahead and talk to them, that would be at least ONE bit of drama she could put to rest one way or the other! One bit of closure she could get one way or the other. And it could be done in under 10 minutes! I mean, why spend hours and hours and days and weeks OBSESSIVELY searching and documenting your computer records, if there is no use to it? If someone really isn't ENJOYING the DRAMA and ENJOYING being a VICTIM, they would talk to the authorities, find out one way or the other, and deal with t accordingly.

[Ladyblue]

Um, I'm not a BS, and you have yet to respond to a single thing I've posted except to address the so-called "facts" fed to you by your MM. You don't know they are "facts" at all. You would have to see and hear things from the actual source (not a reporter of "facts" who has an obvious agenda) to know them as "facts."

 

As for there being no benefit for you in this thread, I would have to agree with you as it appears this thread was created in an effort to find folks willing to blow sunshine where it don't normally shine.

 

I'm all about people being happy together, but NOT at the expense of someone else. If he loves you so, and he is SO freakin' miserable in his M, why hasn't he left the M in two years? How long does he expect you to wait? I'm betting if you told him you weren't going to play the A game with him any more he would simply find another OW. And that's not a reflection on you. It's a reflection on HIM.

 

Very good points.

[alexandria35]

That was a great post Dreaming! I wanted to respond to this poster yesterday but by the time I got home from work she had brought up so many issues that I didn't even know where to start. Looks like you tackled pretty much everything and I wholeheartedly agree with your perspective.

 

To the OP, If I were you I would seriously consider trying a new therapist. The one you speak of is wasting your money and I'm being serious. Years ago I spend a short period of time in therapy. At the same time a relationship I was in had ended and I felt deeply hurt and confused by my ex. This obviously led to me wanting to discuss him in my therapy sessions, but my therapist wouldn't have it. I mean it was okay for me to discuss MY feelings about the relationship, but whenever I wanted to discuss HIM and what I thought his issues were my therapist would gently point out that this wasn't his therapy and bring the focus back onto myself.

 

I would guess that most professional educated therapist would not allow one of their patients to waste time and money discussing someone else's problems. I mean when you go to dentist you're there to get your teeth fixed right? You don't get there and then start telling the dentist what the problem is with your friends teeth. You call a plumber to get your toilet fixed not to discuss what's wrong with your neighbors plumbing. Same thing with therapy. Sounds like you and your therepist spend far to much time discussing the MM and the wife and not nearly enough time focused on you.