maybe the worst part

[moloko]

And not one of those people did anything to harm their WS.

 

bent, its no use, some people will see the pain they cause, and the pain others like them cause, and dismiss the people that were dealt that pain as bitter without realizing they are that way because someone treated them like feces.

[SoMovinOn]

I am frequently amazed that more people do not act crazy when they discover infidelity.

 

That's not bitter. That is emotional devastation to the point of experiencing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, a spinning out of control emotionally, physically and intellectually.

 

Only because we (humans) make it that way. Things are important only because we make them so. You date someone, you break up, you move on. You marry someone, things change, you get divorced, you move on. Some people get *so* extremely psycho over jealousy, hurt or anger, to the point where it consumes them. That's no way to live.

 

Yes, as a BS, I went through the whole range of emotions, but eventually I realized, it really didn't matter. Obviously, our marriage was over *before* she had her first affair. It's generally fear of the response/consequences that cause people to lie. Certainly that was true in her case. Had she simply told me she wanted out, I'd have let her go without a problem (and I still will - just just won't go!)

 

The flip side is, you have someone who tells their spouse they are done, they want out, and the spouse takes a "I'll never let you go" attitude. That's just stupid. So... they won't let go, their spouse ends up going behind their back to get out.

 

People need to relax. It's not the end of the world. Nothing is the end of the world except the end of the world.

[KickinCowgirl]

maybe the worst part about being an OM is living in fear, when you text her and she doesn't text back, that she's either freaked out or been found out.

 

 

I'm sorry Justaname ...

[NoIDidn't]

I can understand the observation that maybe the issue isn't that the affair is humiliating because of a delayed or ignored text message. I've always only allowed for a few minutes to pass before I moved on to something else. Sometimes people get busy. Can't always jump to thinking the worse has happened all the time.

 

Is this a normal thought process for people in affairs? Constant fear and jumping to unreasonable conclusions about why one wasn't responded to immediately?

 

Maybe that shows that altering your expectations, like accepting that it is an affair and is therefore secondary, might help.

[OpenBook]

the hardest part for me was, and i still thnk about it and give me nightmare. is that how he can always walk away from me when my the alloted time he has for me is up. whether in a motel room. or in the car. or anywhere, he can walk away from me.

 

I heard that. It was bone-chilling to experience it... and life-changing for me. Never again after that have I loved a man so completely and unconditionally. There is now always a part of me in reserve. No matter what happens, that little pocket in the core of me is preserved to fuel my ability to walk away from anything and anyone. No one can touch it.

[Ellin]

That must be a horribly insecure feeling to have most of the time in between those rare, stolen moments of being on top of the world.....

 

....a kind of torture awaiting the crumbs of affection and time together.

 

I believe love does not hurt, does not make someone fearful or insecure.

 

Love should be shouted from the rooftops, not be forced to live in the shadows.

 

True love, to me, makes confident, supports, and lifts up the object of it's affection.

 

Are you okay with these painful feelings?

 

And the next question to ask yourself is why? Is this what love feels like to you?

 

And then the next question is, why is that so?

 

What about a genuine love between a middle-eastern girl from a strict family and an american or european man? That couldn't be shouted from the rooftops and due to the circumstances would cause an enormous amount of pain to the two people involved, no matter how much they really care about each other.

 

And are you saying that the greatest love in the history of literature, Romeo and Juliet's - wasn't true? After all they were ready to sacrifice their lives for each other. There can't be truer love than that.

 

It's annoying how those myths keep being repeated on this forum to suggest to OW that the feelings their MM have for them are a fake and a lie.

 

Love does not necessarily make someone move mountians and does not necessarily bring only those paradise-like emotional states, nor can always be shouted from rooftops.

 

Life is more complex than that.

[jwi71]

And are you saying that the greatest love in the history of literature, Romeo and Juliet's - wasn't true? After all they were ready to sacrifice their lives for each other. There can't be truer love than that.

 

The irony of this just kills me.

 

While the two families DID exist in Verona and they WERE rivals...history has obfuscated the true nature of Juliet and Romeo. Were they loves who died in some romantic and tragic way? Maybe, maybe not.

 

There are at least four (4) versions of the story and each is different. And maybe that is due to the multiple translations each version underwent (ome went from French -> Italian -> English).

 

Can you believe I actually remembered this from high school? I kid you not, I wrote on this subject over 20 years ago in high school and I STILL remember that.

 

Anyways...your choice of comparison may, in fact, be a myth - there's no conclusive record that the Shakespeare's version unfolded accurately as many want to believe.

 

Actually, on second thought, maybe your choice is PERFECTLY analogous to an A.

[Ellin]

"ignore the idiots" is great life advice in general

 

You made me laugh out loud.

[Ellin]

The irony of this just kills me.

 

While the two families DID exist in Verona and they WERE rivals...history has obfuscated the true nature of Juliet and Romeo. Were they loves who died in some romantic and tragic way? Maybe, maybe not.

 

There are at least four (4) versions of the story and each is different. And maybe that is due to the multiple translations each version underwent (ome went from French -> Italian -> English).

 

Can you believe I actually remembered this from high school? I kid you not, I wrote on this subject over 20 years ago in high school and I STILL remember that.

 

Anyways...your choice of comparison may, in fact, be a myth - there's no conclusive record that the Shakespeare's version unfolded accurately as many want to believe.

 

Actually, on second thought, maybe your choice is PERFECTLY analogous to an A.

 

Jwi, I am perfectly aware of the fact that "Romeo and Juliet" is fiction, whether based on something that happened in real life or not.

 

But it is a classic and a masterpiece of world literature and a template of the truest romantic love in the mind of our society and culture.

 

So this tells us that the concept of true love is everything but free of hurt, suffering and secrecy.

[Ellin]

If you're single by a certain age and not married, you HAVE PROBLEMS!!!

 

Anyone who is single by a certain age has problems? And pray tell, what is that "magical" age?

 

Honestly, this sounds like something great aunt Esmerelda would have said a hundred years ago! LOL!

 

It's true, though.

 

At some point not very long ago I tried online dating. At first it seemed that there were tons of nice single guys out there.

 

But after a while you get the idea - that there is always a reason why these people are single at this "certain" age.

 

Including myself I suppose.

[anne1707]

If you're single by a certain age and not married, you HAVE PROBLEMS!!!

 

Well I guess someone who is insecure or immature might feel that way but anybody who has developed themself to a reasonable level of self-understanding would realise that they do not need to be with somebody to be complete or fulfilled or......

 

Most mature adults realise that the key in life is to be happy on their own and not actually needing to be with another.

[Ellin]

Well I guess someone who is insecure or immature might feel that way but anybody who has developed themself to a reasonable level of self-understanding would realise that they do not need to be with somebody to be complete or fulfilled or......

 

Most mature adults realise that the key in life is to be happy on their own and not actually needing to be with another.

 

It's true that the key to happiness is to be self-sufficient and not needy BUT this cannot be looked at in a way that is detached from the world we live in.

 

In reality we are social animals and normally need to be in a community. Another basic natural need (not to be confused with being emotionally needy in dysfunctional way) is the need to have a family. Without it we would not be here.

[AngeletteX]

Most mature adults realise that the key in life is to be happy on their own and not actually needing to be with another.

 

As an adult I've found that I can be completely happy on my own but I am HAPPIER to have this incredible person in my life.

 

And I take care of all my needs but he takes care of my WANTS.

 

And since we both WANT each other it works out perfectly.

[Spark1111]

What about a genuine love between a middle-eastern girl from a strict family and an american or european man? That couldn't be shouted from the rooftops and due to the circumstances would cause an enormous amount of pain to the two people involved, no matter how much they really care about each other.

 

And are you saying that the greatest love in the history of literature, Romeo and Juliet's - wasn't true? After all they were ready to sacrifice their lives for each other. There can't be truer love than that.

 

It's annoying how those myths keep being repeated on this forum to suggest to OW that the feelings their MM have for them are a fake and a lie.

 

Love does not necessarily make someone move mountians and does not necessarily bring only those paradise-like emotional states, nor can always be shouted from rooftops.

 

Life is more complex than that.

 

OMG! Are you kidding me? Romeo and Juliet is about immature love! They were 14 and 15 years old, their families hated each other and their great love affair was a total rebellion against their autocratic, rivalrous families!

 

It is about love as secrecy and rebellion and adolescence.

 

Are you kidding me? You are equating mature confident love with Romeo and Juliet?

 

How old are you?????

 

When I was 14 and daddy didn't like my boyfriend....that's Romeo and Juliet!

 

Had they survived until let's say, 19....back in Shakespearen times...that's the equivalent of 25 today?....they would have told their families to suck eggs and yes.....shouted it from the rooftops!

[Spark1111]

Jwi, I am perfectly aware of the fact that "Romeo and Juliet" is fiction, whether based on something that happened in real life or not.

 

But it is a classic and a masterpiece of world literature and a template of the truest romantic love in the mind of our society and culture.

 

So this tells us that the concept of true love is everything but free of hurt, suffering and secrecy.

 

No, it is not! It is a piece of literature designed to show the horrors of class and snobbery! Romeo and Juliette are the sacrifices to the hatred and infighting of those two stupid warring families.

 

It is Shakespeare at his most ironic....the two child lovers are a sacrifice to the bigotry of their families!

[Spark1111]

What about a genuine love between a middle-eastern girl from a strict family and an american or european man? That couldn't be shouted from the rooftops and due to the circumstances would cause an enormous amount of pain to the two people involved, no matter how much they really care about each other.

 

And are you saying that the greatest love in the history of literature, Romeo and Juliet's - wasn't true? After all they were ready to sacrifice their lives for each other. There can't be truer love than that.

 

It's annoying how those myths keep being repeated on this forum to suggest to OW that the feelings their MM have for them are a fake and a lie.

 

Love does not necessarily make someone move mountians and does not necessarily bring only those paradise-like emotional states, nor can always be shouted from rooftops.

 

Life is more complex than that.

 

Uhhh, not not really.

 

People leave their families, their home countries, move mountains to be with the one they love. Happens all the time; in history, in countries or cultures that hate each other; in the neighbors next door or down the block.

 

Love does do that! Every day! Throughout history!

 

Show me a confidant man and woman, confidant in their love for each other, and yes....they shout it from the rooftops; leave their parents, their homeland, their former significant other; convert religion, leave a homeland, resettle in the dessert, whatever!

 

Happens every day if they are motivated and confidant enough to do so.

 

Everything else is excuses.

 

Any men want to way in here with their opinion? When they are madly in love with a woman and can't bear the thought of losing her?

[whichwayisup]

It's annoying how those myths keep being repeated on this forum to suggest to OW that the feelings their MM have for them are a fake and a lie.

The feelings probably are real but they are based on an affair setting type of relationship, a hidden lie from wife, family, friends, kids, etc..etc.. The glue that holds an OW and a MM together most of the time isn't as strong as the glue that holds a wife and husband together. Yes, the history does count between a H and W, like it or not.

 

HOW many times have we read on here that the MM or MW throws their OW/OM under the bus, denying, lying, minimizing, saying that they never loved the AP to their spouses. Only person who "knows" what is what is the MM or MW. It's so easy to get caught up in the moment, base lust affair, love feelings at that particular time but when push comes to shove, well, the evidence has played out many many times here on LS by many OW and OM who never ever thought "their" MM or MW would minimize, walk away and throw them under the bus.

 

Just my 2 cents, I couldn't care less if I'm right or wrong, it's just another opinion like everyone else's on here. Feel free to pick what I say apart if you must.

[twinsmom]

Perhaps instead of using Romeo and Juliet, a fictional couple, one should consider King Edward VIII, who actually abdicated the throne to be with his married love Wallis Simpson..He loved her, and he did something about it..Like they say, "A person will move mountains...."

[Ladyblue]

Perhaps instead of using Romeo and Juliet, a fictional couple, one should consider King Edward VIII, who actually abdicated the throne to be with his married love Wallis Simpson..He loved her, and he did something about it..Like they say, "A person will move mountains...."

 

Exactly!!!

[Ladyblue]

The feelings probably are real but they are based on an affair setting type of relationship, a hidden lie from wife, family, friends, kids, etc..etc.. The glue that holds an OW and a MM together most of the time isn't as strong as the glue that holds a wife and husband together. Yes, the history does count between a H and W, like it or not.

 

HOW many times have we read on here that the MM or MW throws their OW/OM under the bus, denying, lying, minimizing, saying that they never loved the AP to their spouses. Only person who "knows" what is what is the MM or MW. It's so easy to get caught up in the moment, base lust affair, love feelings at that particular time but when push comes to shove, well, the evidence has played out many many times here on LS by many OW and OM who never ever thought "their" MM or MW would minimize, walk away and throw them under the bus.

 

Just my 2 cents, I couldn't care less if I'm right or wrong, it's just another opinion like everyone else's on here. Feel free to pick what I say apart if you must.

 

My nearly 3 year EA was the love story of the century No, really. I guess he loved me, in some sort of way. Mostly I think it was fantasy, with an underlying selfish need. I was the aspirin for his boring life and aching marriage.

 

Sure, he and his wife had a miserable relationship most of the time. But they STILL had a relationship. Yes, she was a serial cheater. Yes, I'm sure things were often tense and unpleasant in their home. I'm sure there were nights that he actually did sleep in the recliner. But he still chose to stay married to her, and to live with her, and to call her his wife, and their house his "home."

 

When she was sick, when her car broke down, he was there for her. When her friend died, he was there to drive her to the funeral, because "bless her heart," it was too dangerous for her to make that long drive alone.

 

When I had an emergency, sure, I could text him. Maybe I'd even be able to get in touch with him. Maybe he'd be able to sneak away, to be "by my side." But then he would always go home. I always came first in his beautiful words of love, but second in practical application.

 

Oh, sure, we were in constant contact. He called and texted me a million times a day. But my bed was still cold and empty at night, and most mornings, I watched the sun rise with my faithful dog.

 

He said he would always love me. Begged me to always love him. Begged me to not ever leave him. Said he couldn't stand the thought of another man touching me. All the while, he is going home to his wife. Sharing his life, his home, his bed with his wife. What the hell kind of love is that?

 

As Steelknife said, and I can relate so well, when his allotted time with me was up, he could leave, just walk away. Oh there were many professions of love, many promises of "one day," sometimes tears were shed. But he always left. What the hell kind of love is that?

 

I was faithful and true to him. I never lied to him. He said I was probably the only person in his life who didn't lie to him. I was loving and devoted. Every time he caught his wife with her MM, he would tell me, "It won't be long." And every time, he stayed with her. Still he stayed with her. What the hell kind of love for me was that?

 

Did he have ANY CLUE what the reality of my life was like? What it was like, loving him and longing for him, while he continued to choose to be with her? Where was the love in that? While he was enjoying his fantasy of "us," did he ever even consider the pain he was putting me through? I really fail to see the "love" in any of it.

[Ellin]

Twinsmom, I actually waited for someone to come up with the story of King Edward and Wallis Simpson. This story is an exception rather than a rule.

 

It is fair to say that some people will "move mountains" for love and when they do, their story becomes widely known - because of its uniqueness and romanticism.

 

It is not fair to say that people would normally go to such lengths for love.

 

We also don't know what went through King Edward's mind. Perhaps he wasn't that much into being a king, anyway. Maybe he appreciated a normal, simple life - being just a regular person.

 

After all being a king is not so much fun, just like being a celebrity - it has its appeal and glory but goes together with many sacrifices and inability to live a "normal" life and do many things that are enjoyable and available to anonymous members of society.

 

So we don't know how much of a sacrifice this was for him personally.

 

In real life genuine love often finds so many obstacles on its way that it cannot fulfill its potential and that does not mean that it wasn't true and real. If the circumstances were different, the two people in question could be a perfect and exemplary couple.

 

I, for example, would never leave my children or accept only a limited contact with them, if that was the condition of being with the man I love.

[Ellin]

Spark111, you seem to be getting very agitated about this subject.

 

To you the ages of Romeo and Juliet mean they were only children, but in those days it wasn't unusual for people to get married and start their adult life and family together as teenagers.

 

And the story of Romeo and Juliet is not normally used as illustration of immaturity but an illustration of the truest, though tragic, romantic love.

 

Both real life and literature are full of stories involving very strong feelings of love, which wasn't meant to be and invoked much suffering and tragic twists.

 

The only ones in which everything is well in the end and all obstacles are overcome, no matter how dramatic and severe, for the couple to live happily ever after are fairy tales and for a good reason - because the people this stories are designed for - children - are not mature enough to understand different shades of grey and are more comfortable with just black and white.

 

To say that anything less than moving mountains and shouting from rooftops is not love is rather absurd.

[woinlove]

Spark111, you seem to be getting very agitated about this subject.

 

Very agitated? Is that like bitter? Why toss around such labels at others? It doesn't stick to the intended target. And we see it did make at least one OW in pain feel even worse.

 

Like Spark, I also can't understand how your Romeo and Juliet analogy pertains to this thread, where the OP is feeling pain which is connected to the fact that his love is married to someone else and he fears d-day and freaking out. If you think the truest love is shown in young people willing to die rather than be apart, than surely those same people would be willing to divorce to not be apart. But the OP's love isn't divorcing, so I don't see how that analogy helps.

[BB07]

In my view........just because mm/mw may have real feelings of love for the AP is beside the point. What good does it do the AP if the only thing you've got is feelings and nothing of substance (actions) to back them up? We can argue all day and then some about if someone's feelings are real or not, but when all is said......it's doesn't mean squat unless the words are backed up with more than just fantasy or empty promises. Why the hell should ANYONE suffer for love when nothing is going to come of it except a lot of disrespect, pain, and loathing of yourself for allowing yourself to be a doormat?

If words of love are spoken.........then a person should damn well act accordingly and if they don't.......what is the point?

[Ellin]

Very agitated? Is that like bitter? Why toss around such labels at others? It doesn't stick to the intended target. And we see it did make at least one OW in pain feel even worse.

 

Like Spark, I also can't understand how your Romeo and Juliet analogy pertains to this thread, where the OP is feeling pain which is connected to the fact that his love is married to someone else and he fears d-day and freaking out. If you think the truest love is shown in young people willing to die rather than be apart, than surely those same people would be willing to divorce to not be apart. But the OP's love isn't divorcing, so I don't see how that analogy helps.

 

It's not a label, just an observation. This is how her last post "sounds".

 

Romeo and Juliet analogy does not pertain to this thread, but was my reaction to one of the myths perpetuated on LS about what "true love" is, which is often used as a veiled way of putting down the R of an OW with a MM.

 

But since you and Spark are so much in agreement about this issue, and also about what true love is or isn't, I assume that you both agree with the statement that a MM who cheats cannot possibly love his W. Right?