Took Excstasy last night and had a horrortrip! Could it have been something else??!!

[pav186]

Originally posted by Bill

 

They are dangerous because they are drugs. They are dangerous because of the effects they have, both short-term and long-term. I also believe that cigarettes should be outlawed. Too much politics there.

 

But why does something thats unhealthy have to be outlawed? Where is the crime? Why is it a criminal issue and not a health related issue? Why is this not a personal choice issue since it involves just the person using it?

[dyermaker]

Originally posted by pav186

Why is this not a personal choice issue since it involves just the person using it?

What about our tax dollars that go to paying your welfare, unemployment, and medical bills? As well as putting your children through foster care?

[ace876]

Originally posted by Bill

You get what you deserve for doing illegal drugs. They are illegal for a reason.

 

Actually, no.

 

If you read the history of EVERY single outlawed drug, they were made illegal for various political reasons, most often to curb the tide of immigration.

 

Look it up.

 

Sorry, but you've fallen under a fallacy that all to many people believe.

 

-Ace

[pav186]

Originally posted by dyermaker

What about our tax dollars that go to paying your welfare, unemployment, and medical bills? As well as putting your children through foster care?

 

Well i'm against most forms of government "welfare" since I think government handouts only breed unemployment and poverty. But even if that was the case, the goverment is spending over $40 Billion of your tax dollars now on the drug war and some put estimates including litigation and school programs etc. at upwards of $80 Billion. If you combine that with the revenues that drugs would create for the government, without a doubt, any costs attributed to drugs would be covered by the revenues. Taxes on marijuana alone would be in the billions. So even if you take the lower estimates and combine it with tax revenues it would be atleast $60Billion being saved. Not to mention there would be less corruption at the borders, less violent/gang related crime in the cities, you would help end the civil war in Colombia which if fueled by the enormous profits of cocaine. Many people become addicts/junkies simply because by using drugs you become an outcast from society, so they start to only associate with outher users/addicts so their drug of choice becomes the focal point of their life since. Also, in regards to foster children, there are no stats that say that drug users are any more reckless than anyone else. You will always read about someone being arrested for murder and having drugs in their possession or whatnot, so it propogates the steroetype. You dont hear about the middle-upper class people using cocaine because it's not illegal when they go shopping at the mall. There is a connection betweent drugs and violence made in the media that is not real. I wrote a pro-drug war paper in high school when i believed in that viewpoint and ironically that was when I started to realize it was all b.s. The only supporting facts I could find were from the Government (DEA, NIDH, ONDCP) while every third party organization was saying the drug war is a failure and touting the benefits of legalization. So until this day I have researched this topic to no end and am amazed at what the reality with the drug problem is as opposed to what we're all being led to believe.

 

Oh yeah, marijuana and cocaine were original prohibited because they gave blacks and unfair advantage over whites and because they turned blacks in the murderour rapists of white women. (think of the old reefer madness movies)

 

Opium was made illegal because of Asians

 

Alcohol was made illegal because of certain European ethnicities

 

The subject changed to one of health when people's view points began to change and they needed to sell us something... so they came up with "Protect the kids" even though there has never been a correlation between a drugs legal status and its usage rates, with some even seeing a negative relationship. Making drugs illegal glamourizes it and turns it something that makes teens "rebels" if they do smoke.

[Bill]

Originally posted by pav186

But why does something thats unhealthy have to be outlawed? Where is the crime? Why is it a criminal issue and not a health related issue? Why is this not a personal choice issue since it involves just the person using it?

 

You could hurt someone else besides yourself. Ever think of that? That's the only gripe I have against the drugs, is that you could harm others because you are altering you state of perception.

[pav186]

Originally posted by Bill

You could hurt someone else besides yourself. Ever think of that? That's the only gripe I have against the drugs, is that you could harm others because you are altering you state of perception.

 

Yes I have and obviously any crime you commit under the influence you should be held accountable for. If you smoke a joint and get in a car and drive and kill someone who go to jail. The thing is this, if the drug war WORKED ,where drugs were kept drugs off the street and everyone was living a perfect drug free life where they wake up feeling blessed each morning i would understand the rationale for it.

 

But drugs are still present everywhere with kids saying they have easier access to drugs than alcohol. Drug dealers wont ask you for i.d. And there is no *real* danger to your own health or society from responsible use which is what a majority of drug use is. When someone is arrested for doing something dumb on drugs there are many many many more people who used drugs that day responsibly who didnt get caught but you dont hear about them.

[Bill]

Originally posted by pav186

Yes I have and obviously any crime you commit under the influence you should be held accountable for. If you smoke a joint and get in a car and drive and kill someone who go to jail. The thing is this, if the drug war WORKED ,where drugs were kept drugs off the street and everyone was living a perfect drug free life where they wake up feeling blessed each morning i would understand the rationale for it.

 

But drugs are still present everywhere with kids saying they have easier access to drugs than alcohol. Drug dealers wont ask you for i.d. And there is no *real* danger to your own health or society from responsible use which is what a majority of drug use is. When someone is arrested for doing something dumb on drugs there are many many many more people who used drugs that day responsibly who didnt get caught but you dont hear about them.

 

People get murdered all the time. Just because we can't police it better, we should make it legal? The word responsible does not go with drug use. I'd have no qualms if innocent people were not at risk of being hurt because of drug use. Alcohol included. I'm aware of how many people use illegal substances. As long as they are not harming others, it's all good.

[pav186]

Originally posted by Bill

People get murdered all the time. Just because we can't police it better, we should make it legal? The word responsible does not go with drug use. I'd have no qualms if innocent people were not at risk of being hurt because of drug use. Alcohol included. I'm aware of how many people use illegal substances. As long as they are not harming others, it's all good.

 

 

Murder shouldnt be legal because there is a victim. Someone's life and safety is taken by someone else. Responsibility doesnt go with drugs because we have been taught that all drug use is irresponsible. But isnt there a distinction between someone who has a few drinks and waits until they are able to drive and someone who has 10 beers and then drives home? I've smoked marijuana and waited until I was able to drive before going home which is responsible. We need to teach people that there is a responsible way to use drugs, that is why Europe is moving towards a program called harm-reduction.

 

I was debating this topic in my police class, whether drug use is a victimless crime. Someone said its not because someone can spend all their money on drugs and not have enough to put their kids through college. Im sure this has happened, however how is that different from someone that my brother worked with at a debt consolidation firm. This woman spend over $150,000 on ebay. Should excessive eBay use be illegal too? The truth is that wasting money on something is not a crime, people buy stupid stuff everyday. If that was a crime there would be no more infomercials...

[Bill]

If you can make it victimless, by all means, go ahead.