Strip club + lap dance = cheating?

[lohrewok]

Back to the OP....the only point I want to make is that I am sure that she has needs also, maybe that were not being met who knows? Yet we don't see the OP going out doing the lap dance thing to get her needs met. Clearly the H is wrong here, knows he did wrong and needs to accept his responsibility for it. His way of trying to foist this off as his wife's fault is a weak, immature thing to do.

 

Did he think that doing this would help his marriage? Please.

[zarathustra]

His way of trying to foist this off as his wife's fault is a weak, immature thing to do.

 

So true. I couldn't have said it better. He should accept responsibility for his behavior and let everyone reach closure. Then he can talk to his wife about spicing up the marital bed. He should not have linked the issues--it was a cop-out.

[ladyangel]

Originally posted by lohrewok

Back to the OP....the only point I want to make is that I am sure that she has needs also, maybe that were not being met who knows? Yet we don't see the OP going out doing the lap dance thing to get her needs met. Clearly the H is wrong here, knows he did wrong and needs to accept his responsibility for it. His way of trying to foist this off as his wife's fault is a weak, immature thing to do.

 

Did he think that doing this would help his marriage? Please.

I agree lohrewok. We should stick to the subject here.

 

The husband is obviously trying to shift the blame now that he's had time to think of an excuse for his behavior (no doubt with the help of his friends). The bottom line is he hurt his wife with his behavior and crossed the line of appropriate behavior in his marriage. He needs to take responsibility for that. THEN if he wants to hold a discussion about his needs, the marriage in general, etc., that can be done. But I don't think he should tie the two together and use it to put the blame on her for his actions. As another poster said: RESPONSIBILITY PEOPLE!

 

And to bring in the hypothetical of "what if" it had been the wife who had done such a thing, would that be okay? No. It would be exactly the same standard that should be met...period.

[moimeme]

The point is that the poster started by posting part of the story and then later gave us more background. That background included that her spouse - for TEN YEARS - had felt unwanted. During that ten years, he has not had an affair, become addicted to internet porn or gone to strip clubs. No, he communicated with his wife and asked her for what he needed. And didn't get it. Did he then have an affair? No. He went out one night and did something admittedly unpleasant and dishonest. AFTER TEN YEARS.

 

Plus, she had cheated on him - something he has NOT done to her.

 

Now maybe this wasn't the brightest way to go about it, but they have finally discussed the issue. Wife knows that he's got unmet needs that have gone unmet for a long, LONG time. She can now choose to buy into the marriage or else he should leave and find someone who won't be stingy with the approval he needs.

[FreeMe]

Originally posted by moimeme

The point is that the poster started by posting part of the story and then later gave us more background. That background included that her spouse - for TEN YEARS - had felt unwanted. During that ten years, he has not had an affair, become addicted to internet porn or gone to strip clubs. No, he communicated with his wife and asked her for what he needed. And didn't get it. Did he then have an affair? No. He went out one night and did something admittedly unpleasant and dishonest. AFTER TEN YEARS.

 

Plus, she had cheated on him - something he has NOT done to her.

 

Now maybe this wasn't the brightest way to go about it, but they have finally discussed the issue. Wife knows that he's got unmet needs that have gone unmet for a long, LONG time. She can now choose to buy into the marriage or else he should leave and find someone who won't be stingy with the approval he needs.

 

She cheated BEFORE they were married and he ALSO cheated on her in retaliation. It sounds to me like he's only bringing up this "neglect" and all AFTER the fact of what he did. It's not a reason for what he did. It's an excuse - a lousy one.

[zarathustra]

She cheated BEFORE they were married and he ALSO cheated on her in retaliation. It sounds to me like he's only bringing up this "neglect" and all AFTER the fact of what he did. It's not a reason for what he did. It's an excuse - a lousy one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great point, FreeMe. The Time Line does not help him.

[moimeme]

It sounds to me like he's only bringing up this "neglect" and all AFTER the fact of what he did

 

Please reread Greta's words:

 

 

He also said that I could have done a lot more over the last 10 years, after I cheated before we were married, to make him feel more secure, wanted , attractive, and chosen rather than settled for ([color=red]which he has told me before[/color]) And I admit I could have done more to go out of my way to make him feel special

[FreeMe]

It's still an excuse. The stripper didn't make him feel "special" - he paid to touch her and get off on her. If Greta can forgive and forget than that's great for her. I wouldn't be able to look at him without disgust again.

[ladyangel]

Originally posted by Greta

Well, when the husband in question came home from work yesterday, he told me he had done a lot of thinking while at work. He discussed the situation with a couple co-workers (who told him he should not attempt to go back any time soon, "just let this smooth over for a while") He did say that he was wrong for taking it that far with the lap dances (he still refuses to call it cheating, but "since it hurts me it would be wrong for him to continue buying lap dances") and that yes he still would like to go back and said he would not from buy any lap dances on any future trips. (which I could probably live with if I could trust him to refrain after he's been drinking & his buddy has been buying them and his friend is sitting there whispering in his ear "come on, just do it - she'll never know")

 

He also said that I could have done a lot more over the last 10 years, after I cheated before we were married, to make him feel more secure, wanted , attractive, and chosen rather than settled for (which he has told me before) And I admit I could have done more to go out of my way to make him feel special (as previously stated, I'm not perfect - far from it) He feels that my lack of effort was a big contributing factor to him, and I quote, "trying to find a way to be with another woman without actually cheating" (do I take this to mean "feel special"?) I feel that his main idea of "doing more" consists of me initiating sex more & doing more to spice things up & keep it exciting (which, face it - after 12 years of being together, 3 kids, work & life in general - there's not always a lot of extra time/energy for consistantly passionate interludes) And he feels that he's been the one putting forth all the effort in the bedroom.

 

So if that's the way he feels & he doesn't perceive me as making enough effort, that does make me feel like I have no one to blame but myself (considering that he informed me of feeling that way prior to this situation) for him seeking that out. But on the other hand I sometimes miss that newness & excitement that comes with a new relationship - but I don't go out and actively "seek ways to be with (feel that excitement) another man without technically cheating"

 

I do realize that one person can't be/give another person everything that they ever need, but it bothers me that he thinks about seeking out other women to achieve sexual satisfaction.

 

Marriage = complete monogomy (unless you're in a mutally agreed on open marriage)

 

I think if he did admit that what he did was wrong, and crossed the line into the grey area of cheating - and agreed/promised not to go back again, that would go a long way to me getting past this.

Marriage is a two-way street after all. I'm sure that the same as she could have done a lot more for him, he could have also done a lot more before deciding the only solution was to do what he did. Granted, there are those who will say, "Well, it's not like he had an affair," but it was obviously a betrayal of trust and something of a sexual nature that should remain in the home. Have some of you lost sight of that?

[The flower girl]

A strip club is one thing every so oftan, most men have been at some point i would guess 99% of men use porn and thats not a big deal in this day and age.

 

most men who use porn have told me as soon as they are done - (you know) they just turn it off and forget what the woman even looks like. Most men dont watch teh same vids etc more then twice because they are always looking for something new (hence so many new girls in porn magazines, blar blar all the time, if they really liked these women you would see the same women in the same porns all the time!)

 

But the fact he wants to go back and has even told you this and is spending money on the same group of dancers is not good news at all! and all on the same women, that would bother me too. but the fact is......

 

If he feelt unloved why didt he just tell you? is he such a child he has to be "naughty" to get any attention?

there is no excuse for what he did and he should not be putin the blame on you.

 

If he had a problem just how can you help him if he doest tell you.

[priscilla]

Flower girl and others were right. Placing the blame on you is just childish. He is the one that wronged. Now he has turned it around and blamed you, which is obviously not making you feel to good. You guys need counseling otherwise he will do it again and again and keep blaming you. This will decrease your self esteem and you will keep feeling like you are now. Would you still be happy when he goes to the strip club and says he is not having a lap dance? He should be home with you.

[spencer]

I have zero tolerance now

ofcourse its easy from over here.

 

tell him to move out and give him one week to find a new place to live.

if he wants to act like a single guy, then he can live like one.

"wont that be great honey," " after the child support is paid, you can spent $$$$ on lap dances" "bye-bye"

[NatoPMT]

tell him to move out and give him one week to find a new place to live.

 

she doesnt want to break up her family, she loves him, and he doesnt want to move out. they want to work things out between them. i think we should be supporting her in the best way to do this, not debating about how awful he is.

 

theyve both made mistakes. now they have the opportunity to get everything out in the open and renegotiate the terms of their happiness in full view of all the facts

 

good luck to them i say, i hope they can work this out, i really do.

[spencer]

bigBelm

your absolutely right and of course i will support her trying to fix the marriage.

although i dont see a resolution for this problem, especially since her husband said he will be going again, sans lap orgasm.

 

so how are we to support her knowing she is going to be getting hurt and feeling betrayed again and again?

or

are we supposed to convince her that these incidents should not really bother her.

or

support her in making his life absolute hell, till he's chosen to never step foot in those std infested joints again.

 

our choices are limited, or mabye my brain is limited

 

i would be interested in what the other options are.

[Greta]

First of all I have to say, "WOW!" I never imagined that my post would bring so many responses - Thank you all for your input. It does help me feel better to discuss this & get an unbiased perception. And I also want to clarify/bring up some points:

 

-I can see how he came to his reasoning for going there in the 1st place. He felt that because he had told me about his feelings several times, and things would be better for a couple weeks, but then go back to the way they were, that he had done as much as he could so then it was up to him to take care of things. I do not, however, accept all the blame

 

-I have suggested on numerous occasions that we go to marriage counseling. To which he replies, "What are they going to be able to tell us that we haven't already talked about"

 

-I also have a real issue with hearing my husband say, "Yes, I thought I had found a way to be with another woman without technically cheating - I never thought you would be this upset about me going there" To which I think, "Bull**** - you knew it was wrong & I wouldn't like it, that's why you lied & snuck around."

 

-And now that I have seen, first hand, what he liked (ie the stripper) - when I am trying to do different things in the bedroom to make him "feel special" & spice things up, in the back of my mind will forever be thoughts of "this is how she did this and moved liked that, so that must be how he wants me to be" Which will simultaneously make me feel like a cheap stripper & add to the resentment. Because even though he may say that there was no emotion that went into his actions & he may not be thinking of strippers while we're having sex - I cannot remove the emotion from it or not have thoughts of him & the stripper pop into my mind --especially if he continues to go back, even minus the lap dances. It would have been better if he said would not go back at all, since I - justifiably so - don't trust him to be there & not buy a lap dance. I mean, my god - he paid another woman bring him to orgasm!

 

-He also tried to tell me that this will be just like anything else, once the novelty wears off he won't be nearly as interested in going back. I say, what will he resort to next once the novelty of strip clubs wears off?!

 

And for all you men out there, that was a little insite into the workings of a womans' mind

[zarathustra]

And for all you men out there, that was a little insite into the workings of a womans' mind

 

And an excellent mind it is. I was initially critical, but you patiently explained the heartrending situation and turned me around.

 

I share your concern about stimulation escalation: it's really a very short hop from orgasming with a lap dancing stripper and paying for a female escort. Your husband crossed some boundaries.

 

I'd stay very vigilant.

 

By the way, his playing the blame game with you was lame.

 

If I had a dollar for every guy caught screwing around who said bad sex at home made him do it, I'd be a millionaire. It would have been one thing if no marital sex life existed, but that wasn't your situation. So your sex life was getting stale, well get in line.

[FreeMe]

Originally posted by Greta

-I also have a real issue with hearing my husband say, "Yes, I thought I had found a way to be with another woman without technically cheating - I never thought you would be this upset about me going there" To which I think, "Bull**** - you knew it was wrong & I wouldn't like it, that's why you lied & snuck around."

 

-And now that I have seen, first hand, what he liked (ie the stripper) - when I am trying to do different things in the bedroom to make him "feel special" & spice things up, in the back of my mind will forever be thoughts of "this is how she did this and moved liked that, so that must be how he wants me to be" Which will simultaneously make me feel like a cheap stripper & add to the resentment. Because even though he may say that there was no emotion that went into his actions & he may not be thinking of strippers while we're having sex - I cannot remove the emotion from it or not have thoughts of him & the stripper pop into my mind --especially if he continues to go back, even minus the lap dances. I mean, my god - he paid another woman bring him to orgasm!

 

-He also tried to tell me that this will be just like anything else, once the novelty wears off he won't be nearly as interested in going back. I say, what will he resort to next once the novelty of strip clubs wears off?!

 

I would be feeling and thinking all these things Greta. I was thinking about it and I would actually prefer my boyfriend to actually cheat with a "real" woman than to pay a stipper or other prostitute to do what she did. I find that so repulsive. Even if it was someone I didn't have a sexual/emotional attachment to like a good male friend or whatever, I find that so disgusting.

 

I don't know how you're going to be able to show him that extra attention he wants now, as you say, without all that imagery in your head. He's driven a much bigger wedge between the two of you than the one that was there. I think he's compounding the wrong too by saying he's going to keep going back. That would be the last nail in the coffin for me. How can you feel like anything you do now will make a difference?

[Greta]

We did actually make love the other night, and while it was really good compared to some of our other recent encounters, it was still very difficult for me to keep those thoughts pushed out of my mind.

 

[i think he's compounding the wrong too by saying he's going to keep going back.]

 

I did tell him that I probably wouldn't have a problem with him going occasionally to a place like that as long as he didn't get any lap dances, but as I have said I don't trust him now. Plus he seems to think that "him going occasionally" means this weekend. On top of that his best friend that went with him (who is single) has been working all this overtime to have extra money to go back & he's pressuring my husband to get back over there. In fact, he wanted them to go back again this past Saturday (which had only been 1 week since the 1st visit)

 

I know some of you might say, "Well, tell your husband he can't go out with this particular friend" But this guy is a very close friend of the whole family, he's almost like the brother I never had. And he has never before given me cause to think badly of him.

[FreeMe]

Originally posted by Greta

On top of that his best friend that went with him (who is single) has been working all this overtime to have extra money to go back & he's pressuring my husband to get back over there.

 

To me that is a problem, even for the single one. I think using strippers or paying for services like escorts/prostitues, and even sometimes porn, is often about fears of intimacy and related problems.

 

But anyway, what's the problem with his friend - why can't he find single friend to go with him? I think he's being kind of disrespectful of your marriage and your husband's committment.

[InmannRoshi]

It's still an excuse. The stripper didn't make him feel "special" - he paid to touch her and get off on her.

 

You don't know a damn thing about why he did what he did. You're just projectting your tired and outdated male stereotypes as fact.

 

Quit projecting why YOU would go to a strip club or why YOU would go to an escourt (and there is a night and day difference between the two, sorry, there just is), into why he would.

 

I was once close friends with a stripper in college. Women used to always ask her "What's the best way to turn a man on ??" "How do you drive a man wild" and so forth.

 

You know what her answer was ??

 

"Be nice to him"

 

She said that's all that most of the men wanted. Most didn't want to be dominating male to a submissive female. They didn't want to look at huge fake tits ... maybe the men who had fettish for huge fake tits did .. but just as many had a fettish for for smaller, real breasts and they made good money too. They didn't just want jut to get their "rocks off" .... most men masturbate several times a week (or "cheat" as some women on this board refer to masturbation), which is much more affordable and convenient way of accomplishing that.

 

Most guys went to a strip club because they just wanted a pretty girl to be nice to him.

 

I'm with Moim ... I would like to hear the justification why a neglected woman of 10 years goes into an affair is acceptable, but a neglected man of 10 years going to a stripclub is unforgivable.

[soserious1]

Originally posted by Greta

Well, when the husband in question came home from work yesterday, he told me he had done a lot of thinking while at work. He discussed the situation with a couple co-workers (who told him he should not attempt to go back any time soon, "just let this smooth over for a while") He did say that he was wrong for taking it that far with the lap dances (he still refuses to call it cheating, but "since it hurts me it would be wrong for him to continue buying lap dances") and that yes he still would like to go back and said he would not from buy any lap dances on any future trips. (which I could probably live with if I could trust him to refrain after he's been drinking & his buddy has been buying them and his friend is sitting there whispering in his ear "come on, just do it - she'll never know")

 

He also said that I could have done a lot more over the last 10 years, after I cheated before we were married, to make him feel more secure, wanted , attractive, and chosen rather than settled for (which he has told me before) And I admit I could have done more to go out of my way to make him feel special (as previously stated, I'm not perfect - far from it) He feels that my lack of effort was a big contributing factor to him, and I quote, "trying to find a way to be with another woman without actually cheating" (do I take this to mean "feel special"?) I feel that his main idea of "doing more" consists of me initiating sex more & doing more to spice things up & keep it exciting (which, face it - after 12 years of being together, 3 kids, work & life in general - there's not always a lot of extra time/energy for consistantly passionate interludes) And he feels that he's been the one putting forth all the effort in the bedroom.

 

So if that's the way he feels & he doesn't perceive me as making enough effort, that does make me feel like I have no one to blame but myself (considering that he informed me of feeling that way prior to this situation) for him seeking that out. But on the other hand I sometimes miss that newness & excitement that comes with a new relationship - but I don't go out and actively "seek ways to be with (feel that excitement) another man without technically cheating"

 

I do realize that one person can't be/give another person everything that they ever need, but it bothers me that he thinks about seeking out other women to achieve sexual satisfaction.

 

Marriage = complete monogomy (unless you're in a mutally agreed on open marriage)

 

 

While this is good info to work with don't let all the blame for this fall to you.He has an obligation to convey his feelings to you over the years,if he's been feeling "settled for" to this point he didn't get there overnight,he's been wealking around brewing resentments for years.Perhaps a convo about why communication is so poor might be in order.

[FreeMe]

Originally posted by InmannRoshi

 

 

They didn't just want jut to get their "rocks off"

 

 

Um, reread what the poster said. He husband did do that and in the beginning was saying he didn't think he could go back and NOT do that.

 

I've had friends that were strippers too so don't tell ME about what I know and don't know.

[zarathustra]

I'm with Moim ... I would like to hear the justification why a neglected woman of 10 years goes into an affair is acceptable, but a neglected man of 10 years going to a stripclub is unforgivable.

 

That's a false comparasion. Ardea was in a sexless, loveless hell of a marriage. The sex wasn't just stale or flat-- it was non-existent. Greta's husband had sex at home . Their sex life was just in a rut. Nothing extreme or abnormal about that.

 

I'll get flamed for this but I believe that any spouse, male or female, has just cause to have extra-marital sex when one spouse absolutely refuses to have sex with him or her. Unlike Ardea's husband who had completely shut down sexually, Greta had not. That's a material difference in my mind.

[InmannRoshi]

Originally posted by FreeMe

Um, reread what the poster said. He husband did do that and in the beginning was saying he didn't think he could go back and NOT do that.

 

I've had friends that were strippers too so don't tell ME about what I know and don't know.

 

Um, I read it. Then, I, Um ... reread it. Now, Um, I've just reread it again to make sure I didn't miss anything. He said he might not refrain from a lap dance if he goes again. Lap dance does not always equate to jizzing on yourself, and most men who get a lap dance do not do so with the intention of having an orgasm. In fact, its rather humliating if it happens.

 

I'm telling you what you know is ZILCH. NADA., NOTHING. zero multiplied by a thousand is still zero, which is exactly what you know about why he did what he did. As you've demonstrated. Again, all you want to do is spout off some offensive male stereotypes.

 

 

I'll get flamed for this but I believe that any spouse, male or female, has just cause to have extra-marital sex when one spouse absolutely refuses to have sex with him or her. Unlike Ardea's husband who had completely shut down sexually, Greta had not.

 

According to who ?? Greta ?? Sex is not just a pysical act, its a form of non-verbal communication. And if someone is making sex seem like a chore and makes it known in no uncertain terms that they can't wait to get it over with, then its communicating "You're not attractive, you're not valued and you're not worth the hassle".

 

And who says that the only reason this man went to a strip club is because he was missing sex ?? Greta has said that she's never did much to make him feel desirable and attractive and he's repeatedly communicated to her about it.

 

I would LOVE to get his side of the story on this to see what the startling differences between his story and Andrea's.

[FreeMe]

I know what his WIFE said. I don't really know how YOU can know more than she does.

 

And I don't know what stereotypes you're talking about. I didn't spout off about any. I voiced an opinion a couple of posts above and that opinion is based on my life experiences, friends who have been strippers, books I've read, etc. If you're talking about what I said about fear of intimacy, if that was a stereotype, it wasn't one I've ever heard of.