Strip club + lap dance = cheating?

[Greta]

Originally posted by InmannRoshi

 

 

"Be nice to him"

 

 

Most guys went to a strip club because they just wanted a pretty girl to be nice to him.

 

 

Define "be nice"? I am nice to my husband, in and out of bed, of course we have our disagreements, of course he sometimes thinks I'm nagging him, of course I'm not always up for everything he comes up with in bed & vice versa - I don't know of any relationship where that's not true. But on the whole & excluding this current situation, I would say that we have a pretty decent marriage. I also know that he would think the same.

 

 

Originally posted by InmannRoshi

 

 

Lap dance does not always equate to jizzing on yourself, and most men who get a lap dance do not do so with the intention of having an orgasm. In fact, its rather humliating if it happens.

 

 

Both my husband & the friend he went with had an orgasm, and neither seemed embarassed or humiliated by it.

 

 

According to who ?? Greta ?? Sex is not just a pysical act, its a form of non-verbal communication. And if someone is making sex seem like a chore and makes it known in no uncertain terms that they can't wait to get it over with, then its communicating "You're not attractive, you're not valued and you're not worth the hassle".

 

 

I will admit that there have been times when no, I didn't feel like having sex, but that is not every time or even every other time. On the whole, we have an - average, married 9 years, 3 kids to take care of, have to plan every interlude cause there's no such thing as spontaneity anymore - kind of sex life.

 

I would LOVE to get his side of the story on this to see what the startling differences between his story and Andrea's.

 

I have told my husband that I posted a thread on this forum & that I wanted him to read it but he had no real desire to do so. Maybe I'll press the issue & you'll be able to "get his side of things".

[NatoPMT]

posted by spencer...

 

so how are we to support her knowing she is going to be getting hurt and feeling betrayed again and again?

 

up until that point, i didnt see it as a forgone conclusion that Greta would get hurt again, it seemed that her husband had started to communicate, explain why he had done what he did and accept that hed done something that she didnt want him to after initially denying her feelings.

 

however, i have lost the thread a bit since after your post and i have skimmed it and seen a few things that would put the wind up me

 

are we supposed to convince her that these incidents should not really bother her.

 

no - i agree they need serious serious attention

 

support her in making his life absolute hell, till he's chosen to never step foot in those std infested joints again.

 

sounds fun. greta, you up for this? best not.

 

will have to catch up again later

[moimeme]

Greta's husband had sex at home . Their sex life was just in a rut. Nothing extreme or abnormal about that.

 

Well here's a thought which may be foreign to you: sex isn't everything. Just because you're getting 'it' in the marriage may not mean you're getting other, more important stuff.

 

I've also seen documentaries about hookers and interviews with hookers - a lot of men, they say, are looking for some sort of connection; somebody to talk to who'll listen - MUCH more than they are looking for sex.

 

I have a growing suspicion that a lot of LSers are uncomfortable with the idea that men have emotional needs.

 

-I have suggested on numerous occasions that we go to marriage counseling. To which he replies, "What are they going to be able to tell us that we haven't already talked about"

 

Well, you could tell him that maybe a counsellor could suggest ways you could meet each other's needs.

 

Seriously, Greta, read through http://www.marriagebuilders.com. Ask your husband if he'll do the work with you.

[Greta]

Originally posted by moimeme

[seriously, Greta, read through http://www.marriagebuilders.com. Ask your husband if he'll do the work with you.

 

Thanks so much for the suggestion - I checked it out & it seems very enlightening and helpful. I printed off several of the questionnaires for both of us.

[priscilla]

Just a thought Greta. So how are you going to feel next time he does this and tries to blame you. You going to be ok with it? Are you going to go through all this emotional stuff again? How much abuse do you want to take? If he loves you he wouldn't go at all and try to work this out with you. Sound like he doesn't even want to do that, no counseling, no reading of these threads, just blame you.

[moimeme]

I wish you the best of luck. As I understand it, when one partner decides to change and do a little more giving, the relationship can change immensely. Sometimes we have to decide to bite the bullet and be the ones to make the change - but we're often rewarded hugely. I am willing to bet that if you are able to meet his needs for approval (if he really feels you just 'settled' for him, that would certainly be rough on him), he'll not give strip clubs a second thought. I've known men to embark on affairs because they felt unwanted at home. (DESPITE getting lots of sex - an aside)

 

I'm saddened that so many people are trying to fuel the fires of discontent between you. Unlike the others, while I don't condone what he did, I don't think it was a hanging offense and I think his reasons, however they may appear, are at least somewhat valid. It's just that some people are pretty bad at figuring out smart ways to get what they need and he certainly did that. Read it as a signal he was trying to send. I think you two can resolve this and go on to a much better relationship. Sometimes a crisis is a catalyst to more and better things.

[ladyangel]

Originally posted by moimeme

Greta's husband had sex at home . Their sex life was just in a rut. Nothing extreme or abnormal about that.

 

Well here's a thought which may be foreign to you: sex isn't everything. Just because you're getting 'it' in the marriage may not mean you're getting other, more important stuff.

 

I've also seen documentaries about hookers and interviews with hookers - a lot of men, they say, are looking for some sort of connection; somebody to talk to who'll listen - MUCH more than they are looking for sex.

 

I have a growing suspicion that a lot of LSers are uncomfortable with the idea that men have emotional needs.

I somehow doubt that Greta's hubby was looking for some sort of spiritual or emotional connection or somebody to talk to when he paid that girl to grind his crotch until he came.

[moimeme]

I somehow doubt that Greta's hubby was looking for some sort of spiritual or emotional connection or somebody to talk to when he paid that girl to grind his crotch until he came

 

Not the point.

[InmannRoshi]

Originally posted by meanon

Lets hope your comments are removed. But the damage is done. Whatever the reason you have posted, offensive speculation as to someone's ability in bed can in no way be construed as constructive criticism. Please keep such comments to yourself.

 

Oh please ... Spare me the Kleenex and Haggen Das pity party. My nipples are getting sensitive.

 

I was merely stating an example of how having sex doesn't not mean having a fullfilled sex life. I used Greta as the specific example because she's the center of the topic. Its commonly used hypothetical arguments.

[InmannRoshi]

I somehow doubt that Greta's hubby was looking for some sort of spiritual or emotional connection or somebody to talk to when he paid that girl to grind his crotch until he came.

 

Perhaps one person's "spiritual and emontial connection" is another person's everyday, common affection and attention.

[InmannRoshi]

Originally posted by Greta

Define "be nice"? I am nice to my husband, in and out of bed, of course we have our disagreements, of course he sometimes thinks I'm nagging him, of course I'm not always up for everything he comes up with in bed & vice versa - I don't know of any relationship where that's not true. But on the whole & excluding this current situation, I would say that we have a pretty decent marriage. I also know that he would think the same.

 

 

 

 

 

Both my husband & the friend he went with had an orgasm, and neither seemed embarassed or humiliated by it.

 

 

 

 

 

I will admit that there have been times when no, I didn't feel like having sex, but that is not every time or even every other time. On the whole, we have an - average, married 9 years, 3 kids to take care of, have to plan every interlude cause there's no such thing as spontaneity anymore - kind of sex life.

 

 

 

I have told my husband that I posted a thread on this forum & that I wanted him to read it but he had no real desire to do so. Maybe I'll press the issue & you'll be able to "get his side of things".

 

Greta, I don't know one damn thing about your marriage. I'm not addressing you in particular, I'm addressing a very offensive shallow view of men by some people on the board as these thinly layered 2 dimensional cartoon characters taken out of some Tim Allen sketch, and a common double standard. Your husband may be a huge selfish prick, or he might legitimately be seeking out affection and attention after years of neglect. I often withhold judgement until I hear both sides of a story, because they are invariably different. When it comes to adultry, there are black and whites (I cheated on her best friend and she's pregnant with my child) and there are gray areas (He went to a strip club and a friend bought him a lap dance and he soiled his pants). I would prefer to get both sides of the story before I start making blanket generalizations regarding his expectations and intentions of the event. Having been to a bachelor party or 3, I'm somewhat skeptical of this vision of your husband intentionally going into this strip club visit with the intention of having a stripper grind on him until he climaxed with your father looking on. Also, its common to spend $140 dollars on just drinks and the occasional dance with the huge markup in prices. I somehow doubt your husband got the "champagne room" treatment having spent only $140 for the night, unless he was drinking water all night and not buying dances for any of his friends. Like I said, I've been to numerous bachelor parties (I've never been to a strip club for just casual reasons ... I find them rather depressing), and I can't think of a time when I didn't blow at least $100 on just drinks and dances for my friends.

 

And I don't blame him one bit for not going on this board. I'm sure he's got ot better things to do than to try to defend himself and persuade a jury of curious pre-judged strangers with his side of the story.

[moimeme]

Perhaps one person's "spiritual and emontial connection" is another person's everyday, common affection and attention.

 

Oh come on. You're a MAN. You're not SUPPOSED to want that namby-pamby stuff, damnit! You're supposed to live without because that's what a macho man does. You trying to tell me you got feelings? HAH!

 

sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[NatoPMT]

oh i am amused. despite my entertainment being the last thing on your minds.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Greta, going back to when you had your affair, what was it that you felt was lacking in your relationship with your current partner? What explanation did you give your husband to explain your actions?

 

I'm not at all condoning his 'pay back' fling or his sudden interest in nudie bars. But there's been a whole lot of resentment festering between the two of you, and if you stuff it back long enough, it will eventually manifest itself crazy, unpredictable ways.

 

In addition to his claims of feeling neglected, do you think that giving him permission to go and play with strippers in any way may have sent him the signal that you frankly 'didn't care?'

 

I know I'm probably way of base here. I've never had to deal with this issue, myself. But I'm hoping to learn something from it too...

[bittersweet]

It could be worse- He could have gone home with a 20 year old stripper, cheated with her for three months behind your back, got her pregnant, ended the fling when you found out, begged for you, told her to leave him alone, and THEN finding out she's telling him she is still pregnant and never terminated the pregnancy like he thought!!!!

 

I know that may seem a little off subject but its what makes the difference between my B/F of 6 years and your husband who might really just want to "look".

 

Some men go and respect their wives and girls who are home waiting and others get sucked into the fantasy and cause a disgusting mess of ignorance.

 

There is a fine line between "fantasy" and "reality" and most men are decent enough to see the difference. Unfortunately, like mine, some men could turn their back on a beautiful relationship in the heat of the moment. A dancer gives you a sexy look because she wants your money- not because she wants to start a relationship with you.

 

For so many years I sounded just like you. I refused him to go. I would feel intimidated, undesireable... I thought he respected that but instead this is what I'm dealing with after giving him 6 years of unconditional, precious love.

 

Your husband is most likely not like this. It's a part of almost every man's nature to fantasize once in a while. This is the thing most women worry about in the worst case scenario and unfortunately, I'm the 1% that it becomes a reality to. He's honest with you. He shows you that you're special and just remember it could be worse!!

[ladyangel]

Originally posted by InmannRoshi

Having been to a bachelor party or 3, I'm somewhat skeptical of this vision of your husband intentionally going into this strip club visit with the intention of having a stripper grind on him until he climaxed with your father looking on.

Umm...her father wasn't there. Read her posts again.

Also, its common to spend $140 dollars on just drinks and the occasional dance with the huge markup in prices. I somehow doubt your husband got the "champagne room" treatment having spent only $140 for the night, unless he was drinking water all night and not buying dances for any of his friends.

This is what she said: "It turns out he spent $140 at this all nude strip club on beer, tips, and 4 lap dances (all with the same stripper)" According to her post, it was all spent on himself, not others.

Like I said, I've been to numerous bachelor parties (I've never been to a strip club for just casual reasons ... I find them rather depressing), and I can't think of a time when I didn't blow at least $100 on just drinks and dances for my friends.

It wasn't a bachelor party. She said, "He lied about where he was going and continued to lie until he knew he had been caught." Does this really sound okay to you?? What happened to honesty?

[reservoirdog1]

Though I'm not sure it's realistic to do this, I'm going to leave aside the issue of your premarital infidelity and pretend it never occurred, because that really muddied the waters. It didn't excuse your husband's revenge affair, but it certainly explained it. I've been through betrayal like he experienced, and I contemplated a revenge affair myself. If our period of "reconciliation" had lasted more than 2 months before we called it quits and I moved out, I might have had one myself.

 

But that's not the point. In my case, I went to strip bars on a number of occasions with friends during my marriage. But, I never paid for a private dance. To me that would have been crossing the line. I don't see harm in looking. But touching is another matter. My friends would sometimes encourage me to pay for one, but I always declined -- my stated reason being that it was too much like cheating. TBXW didn't mind my going, and I always made it very clear to her where I drew the line.

 

Turns out, during the last 2 years of this, my friends had known about TBXW's infidelity (one of the three affairs) and secretly cringed every time I said this. Two of them sat TBXW down about a year and a half ago and told her that they knew she'd cheated and that if they ever found out she'd done it again, they'd come to me first. In the meantime, they were stuck carrying this horrible secret.

 

And it wasn't her first. She'd had her first during the engagement and the second lasting 8 months and starting within weeks of the wedding.

 

So, I felt like an idiot, no doubt about it. But my mere presence in strip bars wasn't the same as cheating. I don't regret having gone to those places. I regret marrying that woman.

[spencer]

this thread is really depressing, im going to take my meds now.

 

greta

what are you going to do?

inquiring minds want to know.

[zarathustra]

this thread is really depressing, im going to take my meds now

 

 

So true, after reading every post I want a lap dance!

 

Seriously, each marriage has its own unspoken rules , shifting balances and rugged equilibrium. We all make minor or, in some cases major, adjustments every day to spousal conduct that we find unappealing, unfair or unsavory. These daily adjustments to ever brokered compromises, treaties and negotiations are the stuff of marriage.

 

The problem is when one spouse engages in deal breaking behavior and knows that it's deal breaking behavior yet tells his spouse that he's going to continue the strongly objected-to conduct.

 

The objecting spouse can draw a number of inferences from this: first, her opinion/feelings don't matter and that his pleasure/release trumps her opposition;second, he does not want to remain married to her because he has told her that he will continue to engage in behavior that she considers deal-breaking. He's willing to risk his marriage for an orgasm with a stripper.

 

Greta's husband is writing some new rules. The question is whether Greta will play under these new rules--regardless of her feelings--or stop playing altogether. That's a decision that only she can make within the hidden , silent world of her marriage.

[Greta]

Originally posted by spencer

 

greta

what are you going to do?

inquiring minds want to know.

 

My husband & I have made some real headway on this, he's still apologizing for lying and sneaking, and he has begun to see how his behavior went too far, because of the hurt he caused me. He knows that the lap dances are what I find so objectionable and has promised to never buy one again. He still sees the outing as a good time that he would like to repeat every couple of months, and is still re-iterating that it held no deep/great meaning for him.

 

In an ironic twist, we've had great sex since all this happened a mere 2 weeks ago. Yes sportsfans, I have made love with him post lap dances, and while the 1st time was more difficult to keep the imagery at bay, he did make it easier by really tuning into me

 

I also think that the information I got from <removed> will be very helpful, thanks again for that tip!

 

Will I let him go back at all? Not sure yet - hell, maybe I'll go with him and buy my own lap dance!! Wouldn't he just love to watch that!!!

 

Thanks so much for all your input/insight. Experience is the best teacher and I learned a while ago that there are a lot of people more experienced than me

[Rockstar]

Originally posted by Greta

In an ironic twist, we've had great sex since all this happened a mere 2 weeks ago.

 

Great! Let him go back there as often as he wants. When he gets home he will take all his sexual frustration out on you.

 

 

Something you all may enjoy from a book I am currently reading:

 

Why would a civilized human risk his own, let alone his child's well-being just to rub limbs with a bitch who so flagrantly does him for money? Most fathers probably wouldnt, but many of us feel sorely tempted. Is this because we're self-destructive ignoramuses? In terms of modern domestic bilss: Yeah. Biologically, though, it's a much longer story. in Why Is Sex Fun?, Jared Diamond explains that simple evolutionary logic encourages males to "walk off the job immediately after copulation, seek more females to impregnate, and leave the females to rear their offspring." Just watch the parents at a little league game when theres lightning in the distance. Most dads want to get in another half inning to "make it an official game", while the moms are beseeching the fifteen-year-old umpire to suspend it. Showing how male parental care "would be a bad evolutionary gamble" Diamond gives the example of Morocco's Emperor Ismail the Bloodthirsty, sire of approximately 1,400 offspring, and points out that in seven months even a sanguine nonemperor can easily "broadcast enough sperm to fertilize every one of the worlds approximately two billion reproductively mature women." Diamond, of course, is hardly recommending such wanton polygyny; instead, he wants to help his reader "understand why your body feels the way it does, and why your beloved is behaving the way he or she is. perhaps, too, if you understand why you feel driven to some self-destructive sexual behavior, that understanding may help you to gain distance from your instincts and to deal more intelligently with them."

 

So it's not that men are pigs--men are males. The only way we can survive genetically is by exchanging food and shelter for access to reproductively mature females. And how do such females decide which male to couple with? By attending to signals indicating his relative status in her tribe; the highter his status, the better he'' be able to provide for her and their offspring. How does a high-status male determine which females aren't already pregnant? by the ration of her waist to her hips. Which one's the best bet to carry and suckle his offspring? Simply check out her complexion and the upstandingness of her breasts. Bottom line? The 3:2:3 ration of a cute strippers hips, waist, and breasts, so frankly parades onstage, is altogether irresistible to heterosexual men, especially high-status middle-aged chubby hubbies desperate before they die to get as much of their personal DNA as possible into the next generation without getting anyone pregnant. When that's what men want, and when young women know it, things can get terribly sticky.

[moimeme]

My husband & I have made some real headway on this, he's still apologizing for lying and sneaking, and he has begun to see how his behavior went too far, because of the hurt he caused me. He knows that the lap dances are what I find so objectionable and has promised to never buy one again. He still sees the outing as a good time that he would like to repeat every couple of months, and is still re-iterating that it held no deep/great meaning for him.

 

That is GREAT news, Greta! A lot of posters seemed to want to foist their own issues on you but you've done the best possible thing; discussed it with your husband and you're coming to agreements you both can live with. This is a triumph for commitment and for people who honestly want to work at a relationship. I think you will go on to a better and stronger relationship. I wish you both well.

[priscilla]

So Greta, that is all fine and dandy, but how are you going to feel the next time he goes to the strip club? Won't you be wondering what is going on? And, what if a few years from now things are stale in the bedroom for any number of reasons, and he uses that as an excuse to go out and get another lap dance? Can't he and his friend watch a sports game or go play golf or something not involving naked women for a good time?

[ladyangel]

Originally posted by moimeme

My husband & I have made some real headway on this, he's still apologizing for lying and sneaking, and he has begun to see how his behavior went too far, because of the hurt he caused me. He knows that the lap dances are what I find so objectionable and has promised to never buy one again. He still sees the outing as a good time that he would like to repeat every couple of months, and is still re-iterating that it held no deep/great meaning for him.

 

That is GREAT news, Greta! A lot of posters seemed to want to foist their own issues on you but you've done the best possible thing; discussed it with your husband and you're coming to agreements you both can live with. This is a triumph for commitment and for people who honestly want to work at a relationship. I think you will go on to a better and stronger relationship. I wish you both well.

I think it's great news also, Greta. I've never believed that a couple should break up over things that can be worked out. But I hope good communication and having defined boundaries for the future will prevent what he did from happening again.

 

Don't let him think that his behavior is okay with you if it's not. You have a right to expect him to keep his sexual escapades at home in your bedroom. I'm glad you and he haven't let it ruin your sex life, as that is an important part of marriage. Good luck!