Immature Question - When do you expect sex....

[Kamille]

I'm biased for reasons I will explain briefly, but I find the idea of "occasion" sex degrading for those in sex-starved relationships (meaning, not you Little Tiger ).

 

My bf's last LTR ended up being sex-starved and the only times they would have sex was on his birthday. He sees nothing wrong with it - precisely because he was so looking forward to it.

 

I think he's the sexiest man alive and that he should feel and know he is the sexiest man alive. He's also an amazing, generous and skilled lover. I find the idea of him being "thankful" that someone would "condescend" to have sex with him on his birthday absolutely disrespectful. Am I completely off here?

[mem11363]

Kamille - agree 100 percent. I have never tied events to sex. Yes it is true we make an effort for me to have birthday sex. That is just a kindness my wife shows me which is almost lost in the noise of all the daily nice things she does.

 

This is why "date night" seems like utter bullshiitt to me. If my "day to day" isn't enough for her to "want" me, how does taking her "out" on a date change that? For clarity we DO go on dates. They are super fun and they have zero connection to sex. I do not believe we have sex on date nights more/or less than on other nights. And I go on the "date" because my W is fun. Always has been. I don't go on dates thinking - well at the "end" if I do everything right. Yuck. How can THAT be fun.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm biased for reasons I will explain briefly, but I find the idea of "occasion" sex degrading for those in sex-starved relationships (meaning, not you Little Tiger ).

 

My bf's last LTR ended up being sex-starved and the only times they would have sex was on his birthday. He sees nothing wrong with it - precisely because he was so looking forward to it.

 

I think he's the sexiest man alive and that he should feel and know he is the sexiest man alive. He's also an amazing, generous and skilled lover. I find the idea of him being "thankful" that someone would "condescend" to have sex with him on his birthday absolutely disrespectful. Am I completely off here?

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Kamille - agree 100 percent. I have never tied events to sex. Yes it is true we make an effort for me to have birthday sex. That is just a kindness my wife shows me which is almost lost in the noise of all the daily nice things she does.

 

This is why "date night" seems like utter bullshiitt to me. If my "day to day" isn't enough for her to "want" me, how does taking her "out" on a date change that? For clarity we DO go on dates. They are super fun and they have zero connection to sex. I do not believe we have sex on date nights more/or less than on other nights. And I go on the "date" because my W is fun. Always has been. I don't go on dates thinking - well at the "end" if I do everything right. Yuck. How can THAT be fun.

 

Kamille & Mem, you have happy healthy sex lives with "somewhat" matched sex drives, so it means little. When mismatched and sometimes significantly (and frankly I am not sure at all what my optimum sex frequency is:laugh:) then I maintain occassions definitely bring "expectations".....

 

I think Kamille your boyfriend would agree 100% with me, and not call it degrading, just what is/was and "take what you can get and leverage any opportunity".... BTW "only on his birthday"? That means 1X/yr..... Really????? and how many years did this go on for????

 

Thank you mem11363 for again trumpeting how healthy and good your sex life is..... I am sure there are some new members on LS that need to know....

Edited January 28, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic

[mem11363]

My W has never sexually starved me in 21 years. That doesn't mean she says "yes" to every request. It does mean that worst case she asks if we can connect tomorrow. That said she IS the LD partner. And last year a combination of "me" being less playful and edgy and "her" having some issues cut our "normal" frequency in half. My reaction: "I gave her the keys and let her initiate pretty much all the time - which was about once a week". And honestly I could tell that was primarily driven by guilt/desire to avoid being a bad partner. Not by desire. I was distraught about "us", but not angry with her so I did not complain.

 

That said, a few months ago in the heat of an argument about something else entirely she basically said she did not want to continue our sexual relationship.

 

I let that sit for 24 hours. Then we went for a long walk without cell phones. Miles from the house I very calmly told her:

- I love you, am committed to you and the marriage

- I don't want you to feel this relentless "pressure" to do something you don't want

- I am not ok being "celibate/near celibate"

- I then explained an option that can only be described as the "lightest" possible version of an open marriage

As expected she:

- Freaked - I got 10 minutes of anger, anxiety and accusations that I was "not" committed. I stayed totally calm and firmly explained this seemed the best option for "her" given where we were.

- I then got 10-15 minutes of dead silence. Frankly that silence could have lasted an hour or days or if need be weeks. And I would have been ok with that. She knows me. I was done talking, it was time for her to "decide" what SHE wanted.

- She broke the silence with "I am committed to you and our marriage. I will do whatever it takes to make you happy".

- I responded in kind.

- She took me to bed that night and rocked my world (like she usually does). And FWIW I did what I always do - which is make it as much fun for her as possible.

 

The following week she aggressively raised this topic a few times. Each time angry/indignant that I could even "consider" what I had suggested. Each time, smiling I replied with: "Darling, we can talk about what "I" said, provided you are willing to discuss "WHY" I said it. "Do you wish to have the entirety of that conversation"? And each time she gave me a devilish smile and changed the subject.

 

And within weeks of that I/we found our groove again. Which was nice.

 

But I did what I did to preserve our marriage. Because if she went down the path of sexlessness I know with certainty what would happen:

- Every kind/loving gesture I made would be viewed with the unspoken (and toxic) question in her mind. "Is he doing that hoping I will have sex with him"?

- Every unkind act, every argument would be seen as "He is just being a jerk because I am NOT having sex with him"

 

How can a marriage survive that? It can't. At that point all you have are two people choosing to believe that a piece of paper (marriage certificate) is more important than their happiness, and ultimately their mental and physical health.

 

Not on my watch.

 

 

 

Kamille & Mem, you have happy healthy sex lives with "somewhat" matched sex drives, so it means little. When mismatched and sometimes significantly (and frankly I am not sure at all what my optimum sex frequency is:laugh:) then I maintain occassions definitely bring "expectations".....

 

I think Kamille your boyfrind would agree 100% with me, and not call it degrading, just what is/was.... BTW "only on his birthday"? That means 1X/yr..... Really????? and how many years did this go on for....

 

Thank you mam11363 for again trumpeting how healthy and good your sex life is.....

Edited January 28, 2011 by mem11363

[Rose1977]

Every Monday and Wednesday at 10PM and Saturdays at 8AM. Unless there is a full moon, in which case we do it three times a day. We switch it up on leap year to Tuesdays and Thursdays at 10AM and Saturdays at 8PM because variety is the spice of life.

 

Just kidding I totally understand where you are coming from. I think that when it's expected on certain days or anniversaries it can be a bit of a let down, because one or both parties may not be in the mood. For some reason, Valentine's Day is the only "holiday" where it really bothers me if we aren't intimate (which hasn't happened) but only because we usually rent a nice room somewhere with a hot tub, and well, you do the math

As a woman, I may be weird, but I don't really care about birthday, anniversary and all the other kinds of celebratory sex. I would rather know he wants me on a regular basis the rest of the year. FTR, I have a much higher sex drive than he does, so I guess I actually "expect" "want" (whatever you want to call it) more than he does year round. Let's just say I have certainly expanded his horizons This may be an unusual response from a woman, but it truly wouldn't bother me if he wasn't into it on my birthday or whatever. NBD IMO, tomorrow's another day. I'd rather both of us be really in the mood than thinking "I have to do this because it's his/her birthday".

[mem11363]

When we had the "situation" below - my external was completely calm and firm. In fact when she initially melted down she bitterly complained about how "practical and almost business like" I was.

 

Inside - whole nother story. Imagine being kicked in the nuts so hard it takes over a month before you can move "comfortably". THAT was what this was like. But I only gave her a couple brief glimpses into how I "felt" and even so it was more than a few weeks after the dust settled that I did so. Two people flooded with emotion is a recipe for disaster.

 

 

My W has never sexually starved me in 21 years. That doesn't mean she says "yes" to every request. It does mean that worst case she asks if we can connect tomorrow. That said she IS the LD partner. And last year a combination of "me" being less playful and edgy and "her" having some issues cut our "normal" frequency in half. My reaction: "I gave her the keys and let her initiate pretty much all the time - which was about once a week". And honestly I could tell that was primarily driven by guilt/desire to avoid being a bad partner. Not by desire. I was distraught about "us", but not angry with her so I did not complain.

 

That said, a few months ago in the heat of an argument about something else entirely she basically said she did not want to continue our sexual relationship.

 

I let that sit for 24 hours. Then we went for a long walk without cell phones. Miles from the house I very calmly told her:

- I love you, am committed to you and the marriage

- I don't want you to feel this relentless "pressure" to do something you don't want

- I am not ok being "celibate/near celibate"

- I then explained an option that can only be described as the "lightest" possible version of an open marriage

As expected she:

- Freaked - I got 10 minutes of anger, anxiety and accusations that I was "not" committed. I stayed totally calm and firmly explained this seemed the best option for "her" given where we were.

- I then got 10-15 minutes of dead silence. Frankly that silence could have lasted an hour or days or if need be weeks. And I would have been ok with that. She knows me. I was done talking, it was time for her to "decide" what SHE wanted.

- She broke the silence with "I am committed to you and our marriage. I will do whatever it takes to make you happy".

- I responded in kind.

- She took me to bed that night and rocked my world (like she usually does). And FWIW I did what I always do - which is make it as much fun for her as possible.

 

The following week she aggressively raised this topic a few times. Each time angry/indignant that I could even "consider" what I had suggested. Each time, smiling I replied with: "Darling, we can talk about what "I" said, provided you are willing to discuss "WHY" I said it. "Do you wish to have the entirety of that conversation"? And each time she gave me a devilish smile and changed the subject.

 

And within weeks of that I/we found our groove again. Which was nice.

 

But I did what I did to preserve our marriage. Because if she went down the path of sexlessness I know with certainty what would happen:

- Every kind/loving gesture I made would be viewed with the unspoken (and toxic) question in her mind. "Is he doing that hoping I will have sex with him"?

- Every unkind act, every argument would be seen as "He is just being a jerk because I am NOT having sex with him"

 

How can a marriage survive that? It can't. At that point all you have are two people choosing to believe that a piece of paper (marriage certificate) is more important than their happiness, and ultimately their mental and physical health.

 

Not on my watch.

[xxoo]

That said, a few months ago in the heat of an argument about something else entirely she basically said she did not want to continue our sexual relationship.

 

mem, do you think she meant it, or was she "hitting below the belt" to provoke a strong reaction?

 

If she did mean it, have you guys addressed whatever issues there were/are to lead her to feel that way?

[Kamille]

Kamille & Mem, you have happy healthy sex lives with "somewhat" matched sex drives, so it means little. When mismatched and sometimes significantly (and frankly I am not sure at all what my optimum sex frequency is:laugh:) then I maintain occassions definitely bring "expectations".....

 

We are mismatched. He sees me and thinks sex, I need to be relaxed, in the mood, etc. Still, I've also been in a past sexless relationship, and I've come to realize that making sure I'm in the mood is my responsibility. He doesn't deserve to be mistreated because I struggle to handle work-related stress.

 

I think Kamille your boyfriend would agree 100% with me, and not call it degrading, just what is/was and "take what you can get and leverage any opportunity".... BTW "only on his birthday"? That means 1X/yr..... Really????? and how many years did this go on for????

 

 

He does agree with you. Not that we've discussed the topic, but he saw nothing degrading in the birthday sex. It was all part of him being a loving and understanding partner: he didn't want to put pressure on her, so appreciated that she would make his birthday special. I think the sex-starved part progressed over an 8 year period, with the last 3 years being nearly sex-less. They would have sex 2-3 times a year, with him taking reassurance that there would minimally be sex on his birthday. He knew they were done on the b-day when they didn't have sex.

[mem11363]

I have asked. Directly. The best I can tell is last year her libido truly died.

Her: A combo of work stress, work hours, not exercising eating badly

Me: Not doing the non-sexual things outside of bed that do turn her on - so no question this was an "us" thing

 

She felt a growing resentment about sex - that I was unaware of. While I didn't apply any direct pressure, her awareness that sex is not "optional" in our marriage made her angry. Ugh!!!

 

Since then she started working out a lot and eating healthy. We have gone back to doing the 4 primary things* with each other that do turn her on. Libido is back to "normal" for her. And she is back to her usual happy - very loving self.

 

*

- wrestling/sparring

- playful verbal jousting

- a word game we love

- a racquet sport we have a lot of fun with

 

 

 

 

mem, do you think she meant it, or was she "hitting below the belt" to provoke a strong reaction?

 

If she did mean it, have you guys addressed whatever issues there were/are to lead her to feel that way?

Edited January 28, 2011 by mem11363

[taiko]

We are not Muslim, but she still says no during her period so it is expected soon after the menstration stops then every few days until it starts again.

[Molley]

Every Sunday @ 2PM whether we need it or not Please don't call me during this time... Seriously though, we don't focus on any of the "special" day's like Valentines, birthdays, vacations, Christmas, New Years, etc. Even on our wedding day, we were so tired, all we wanted to do was sleep.

 

There are just too many other "regular" days that we can enjoy having sex, why should we focus just on the few "special" days?

 

If you set an expectation, you just stress your partner out.

 

Wouldn't it be great if we all started focusing on the importance of having sex on all the regular non-special days and on the "special" days, we just slept? hummm.

[LittleTiger]

Wouldn't it be great if we all started focusing on the importance of having sex on all the regular non-special days and on the "special" days, we just slept? hummm.

 

I think that's just the point Molley. Some of us get to have sex, pretty much whenever we want it - regular days or special days. That's how it should be in an ideal world.

 

As most people here will know, my own answers, whilst essentially true, are also tongue in cheek. For us, the 'special' days are just a good 'excuse' to make time for what we enjoy doing most .

 

Personally, I consider sleep to be rather a waste of time unless you're exhausted. On regular days sleeping is a necessity, especially for him because he has a tough job and, although he wouldn't complain, I feel guilty if I wake him for sex......birthdays however are a different matter. :p:laugh:

 

The OP, and many others like him, unfortunately don't have the luxury of regular sex, so I can totally understand the desire to be given sex as a 'gift' on their birthday, or to hope that their spouse will be more relaxed and in the mood and therefore more open to intimacy on other special occasions.

 

I do agree with Kamille that there's something 'distasteful' about 'special occasions only' but then the whole idea of being/feeling sex-starved in a marriage is unpleasant (I've been there in the past) so grabbing any crumb you can get, although not great for your self-esteem, is sometimes a necessity.

[giotto]

well, we are talking from two completely different perspectives here. As it's been said, if you don't get it enough - I wouldn't say regularly, because one thing is pretty regular, the lack of it! - you tend to concentrate on every little occasion which could conduce to sex. In fact, I pretty much understand TDP's POV. I used to be like that and it just took me nowhere. So, I have accepted it and I don't expect sex anymore. I have accepted that my wife is the way she is and, if I'm staying, I will have to go along with it. To be honest, I prefer it this way and, in fact, I'm thinking of a separation, in the house, but still a separation. I don't want to worry or be stressed-out by it.

 

So, although we appreciate well-meaning members of LS telling us what to do or how wonderful their sex life is, it just boils down to one thing: you have partners who care about you and your happiness, and you are lucky. I suppose most people don't? Personally, I'm devastated by the failure of my marriage. It would be interesting to have a large survey on this.

 

I think that's just the point Molley. Some of us get to have sex, pretty much whenever we want it - regular days or special days. That's how it should be in an ideal world.

 

As most people here will know, my own answers, whilst essentially true, are also tongue in cheek. For us, the 'special' days are just a good 'excuse' to make time for what we enjoy doing most .

 

Personally, I consider sleep to be rather a waste of time unless you're exhausted. On regular days sleeping is a necessity, especially for him because he has a tough job and, although he wouldn't complain, I feel guilty if I wake him for sex......birthdays however are a different matter. :p:laugh:

 

The OP, and many others like him, unfortunately don't have the luxury of regular sex, so I can totally understand the desire to be given sex as a 'gift' on their birthday, or to hope that their spouse will be more relaxed and in the mood and therefore more open to intimacy on other special occasions.

 

I do agree with Kamille that there's something 'distasteful' about 'special occasions only' but then the whole idea of being/feeling sex-starved in a marriage is unpleasant (I've been there in the past) so grabbing any crumb you can get, although not great for your self-esteem, is sometimes a necessity.

[LittleTiger]

So, although we appreciate well-meaning members of LS telling us what to do or how wonderful their sex life is, it just boils down to one thing: you have partners who care about you and your happiness, and you are lucky. I suppose most people don't? Personally, I'm devastated by the failure of my marriage. It would be interesting to have a large survey on this.

 

Giotto, I apologise if you think my comments about my sex life are insensitive. I realise this is a very serious topic but I believe some things are better discussed privately rather than on an open forum. So (although some may find this hard to believe) I often keep my 'deep down' opinion to myself and give light-hearted responses - especially when we're talking about sex.

 

I am well aware of how lucky am I to have the relationship I have now. All the more so because my now dead and buried marriage could easily have been described as sexless (I even included that fact on the divorce petition I filed after he left me and found someone else he apparently did want to have sex with!)

 

I too understand TDP's point of view and that's really what I was trying to say. To give an entirely different view based on my marriage, I never 'expected' sex on special occasions - I hoped - and, certainly in the latter years, it was false hope. I'm sure my marital problems were very different from yours but the end result was essentially the same - lack of intimacy and a number of very painful years of growing apart. I would never presume to tell anyone in yours or TDPs situation what to do - I might offer suggestions at times, but only you know what may or may not work and only you know what you are able to tolerate and for how long.

 

I was with my exH for nearly 15 years, which obviously isn't as long as some here, but I too was devastated that we couldn't make it work. Whilst certainly not the main reason for our break-up, our pathetic sex life was a very significant catalyst. So, although I'm obviously female, and in an enviable position now (at least in terms of my sex life) I do, at least partly, understand where you guys are coming from.

 

If I said what I really think about the situation that you, TDP and other men on LS are in I would be vilified for being too brutally honest and, ironically, too pragmatic.

[giotto]

Giotto, I apologise if you think my comments about my sex life are insensitive.

 

Well, they are not insensitive, because they are not. Personally, I don't have a problem with them, although, I must confess, sometimes they make me feel depressed.

 

If I said what I really think about the situation that you, TDP and other men on LS are in I would be vilified for being too brutally honest and, ironically, too pragmatic.

 

I think you should, regardless of how brutal and honest you are going to be...

[Toodamnpragmatic]

from the site, very few people really empathize or understand some of the finer points of posts and threads I make. Yes they are simplistic, sometimes childish and seems like I am throwing a tantrum and just an obsessed middle-aged whiner....

 

I think Giotto does get my threads, which are often written in a moment of weakness (or on a down time) and I will throw out a question where I hope for a consensus, but seldom see one.

 

Heck I'm disappointed every night I don't have sex;).... I just think we live in a society that trumpets a day such as Valentine's Day, where women "EXPECT" romantic gestures from their SO, and their SO, to be chauvanistic expects SEX. C'mon does a male expect anything from their spouse on Valentine's Day outside sex?????

 

Are you not disappointed if you don't get a present or are treated wonderfully on your Birthday? To me, not to sound sad or pathetic, part of it being my special day would be having sex, which to me is the most wonderful gift.....

 

 

Really again I am always surprised by responses to these threads. And many come from those in "healthy" relationships who seem to miss the nuance or to see the shoe on the other foot.

 

Again I have a mathematical background. If you average sex 2-3X's/wk (2.5 an average) = 130X's/year, so just by accident you will hit on 40-60% those special days in all likelihood as a minimum (or have it within 1-2 days before or after, so technically it counts)......

 

Now if you are in the Giotto (sorry to use you as an example) camp 2X/mth = 24X's/wk, so to hit on those 4-6 special days is 15%-25% of your annual allotment:p.

 

I am somewhere in between and have learned to live with the bitter, bitter disappointment of seeing those days come and go:p:laugh: (yes I am having fun)......

Edited January 29, 2011 by Toodamnpragmatic

[mem11363]

You are right. I threadjacked. Sorry. This is your thread.

 

Your W is actually deliberately being mean by denying you on your birthday. See if for what it is. A conscious and ONGOING choice on her part to let you know that there is NEVER a situation where you get to relax and expect to be taken care of that way. Not even your birthday.

 

from the site, very few people really empathize or understand some of the finer points of posts and threads I make. Yes they are simplistic, sometimes childish and seems like I am throwing a tantrum and just an obsessed middle-aged whiner....

 

I think Giotto does get my threads, which are often written in a moment of weakness (or on a down time) and I will throw out a question where I hope for a consensus, but seldom see one.

 

Heck I'm disappointed every night I don't have sex;).... I just think we live in a society that trumpets a day such as Valentine's Day, where women "EXPECT" romantic gestures from their SO, and their SO, to be chauvanistic expects SEX. C'mon does a male expect anything from their spouse on Valentine's Day outside sex?????

 

Are you not disappointed if you don't get a present or are treated wonderfully on your Birthday? To me, not to sound sad or pathetic, part of it being my special day would be having sex, which to me is the most wonderful gift.....

 

 

Really again I am always surprised by responses to these threads. And many come from those in "healthy" relationships who seem to miss the nuance or to see the shoe on the other foot.

 

Again I have a mathematical background. If you average sex 2-3X's/wk (2.5 an average) = 130X's/year, so just by accident you will hit on 40-60% those special days in all likelihood as a minimum (or have it within 1-2 days before or after, so technically it counts)......

 

Now if you are in the Giotto (sorry to use you as an example) camp 2X/mth = 24X's/wk, so to hit on those 4-6 special days is 15%-25% of your annual allotment:p.

 

I am somewhere in between and have learned to live with the bitter, bitter disappointment of seeing those days come and go:p:laugh: (yes I am having fun)......

[giotto]

well, TDP, it looks like we have mean wives... and I'm sure LittleTiger is not going to say we are pathetic little [put your choice of "insult" here], because we are actually nice people (well, I think I am... maybe that's my downfall... not being "man" enough). But I think I know what she really thinks...

[mem11363]

Giotto, his W IS mean. So is yours.

 

And my W has a frightening mean streak. Why do you think I spank her physically, verbally and emotionally on a regular basis? If I didn't, she would have broken me by now.

 

 

well, TDP, it looks like we have mean wives... and I'm sure LittleTiger is not going to say we are pathetic little [put your choice of "insult" here], because we are actually nice people (well, I think I am... maybe that's my downfall... not being "man" enough). But I think I know what she really thinks...

[LittleTiger]

well, TDP, it looks like we have mean wives... and I'm sure LittleTiger is not going to say we are pathetic little [put your choice of "insult" here], because we are actually nice people (well, I think I am... maybe that's my downfall... not being "man" enough). But I think I know what she really thinks...

 

Never presume to know what a woman thinks giotto!

 

Actually, I have a lot of respect for both of you. You come across, to me, as intelligent, caring men who value your marriages and have made every effort to make them work. I could be wrong of course.

 

Obviously, you only present your side of the story to LS but, based on what you've written at various times, my opinion of your wives is not so good. In my book, any woman who expects fidelity from a man and then refuses to have sex with him is mean!

[xxoo]

In my book, any woman who expects fidelity from a man and then refuses to have sex with him is mean!

 

Her intention may not be to be mean and hurt her man, but she is being mean and hurting her man.

 

If she has a concience, and she does not want to believe her refusal is mean, she'll be motivated to spin the sexual needs as unreasonable/childish/etc. But she knows she is blowing smoke.

[LittleTiger]

Her intention may not be to be mean and hurt her man, but she is being mean and hurting her man.

 

If she has a concience, and she does not want to believe her refusal is mean, she'll be motivated to spin the sexual needs as unreasonable/childish/etc. But she knows she is blowing smoke.

 

Very true. I know from experience that someone will come up with all sorts of reasons to validate their behaviour, even when it's quite clear the 'reasons' are just 'excuses'.

 

The more time I spend on LS the more frustrated I get with how unwilling people are to face the truth about themselves and their relationships and share it with their partners. How can a relationship survive if there isn't open, honest communication on both sides?

 

How is it helpful to pretend you're the injured party when you know damn well you're not.

[giotto]

Never presume to know what a woman thinks giotto!

 

Actually, I have a lot of respect for both of you. You come across, to me, as intelligent, caring men who value your marriages and have made every effort to make them work. I could be wrong of course.

 

Obviously, you only present your side of the story to LS but, based on what you've written at various times, my opinion of your wives is not so good. In my book, any woman who expects fidelity from a man and then refuses to have sex with him is mean!

 

my wife has her issues, which I knew - although she never said they were - and she hid the seriousness of them from me for many years. My only mistake I suppose it's been pestering her and getting angry about it (the lack of sex), which made things worse. When the marriage hit the divorce stage, she confessed everything to me, promising she would get herself sorted (this was last year). Well, she hasn't and I don't think she ever will. And yes, I'm bitter about it, but I don't want to start another crisis... she is a nice person, really, but too wrapped up in herself and her problems.

[mem11363]

There is no possible way to even "spin" denial of birthday sex to a sex starved partner. It is a conscious "choice" to do that.

 

That said, giving very lavish/expensive gifts to a partner who is choosing to repeatedly communicate that "her" needs are ALWAYS more important than yours, is the best way to ensure the behavior continues.

 

 

 

Her intention may not be to be mean and hurt her man, but she is being mean and hurting her man.

 

If she has a concience, and she does not want to believe her refusal is mean, she'll be motivated to spin the sexual needs as unreasonable/childish/etc. But she knows she is blowing smoke.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

There is no possible way to even "spin" denial of birthday sex to a sex starved partner. It is a conscious "choice" to do that.

 

That said, giving very lavish/expensive gifts to a partner who is choosing to repeatedly communicate that "her" needs are ALWAYS more important than yours, is the best way to ensure the behavior continues.

 

you've done a better job of training your wife then I have..... Or maybe to make an analogy you found a Dressage Horse and I (and Giotto) found Mustangs......