Immature Question - When do you expect sex....

[giotto]

Exactly how, considering her views on sex and AD's and Issues?

 

Sorry you are losing me on that one.....

 

well, yes... You have a point. But don't forget that she says that the pressure I put her under with sex put her off quite big time... so, who knows, she might be fine with another man... her view on sex are fine... she likes sex, just not that often... As far as her issues are concerned, she's learnt to manage them (read: to sweep them under the carpet), so, again she might be ok. But I'm pretty sure that, on a long term, she would revert to her old self... it's a defensive mechanism.

[LittleTiger]

OK As I was saying....

 

Do any of you see whats wrong with someone having to post a thread about when to expect sex? Nothing against the poster but he posed this question and you all weighed in..."Birthdays, Christmas, Veteran's day...."

 

What the F*ck.

 

StoneCold (interesting name - care to spill the beans on that one?) - of course we can see what's wrong with the idea of 'expecting' sex (did you read the whole thread?) but most of us have been here a while and some of us have a little more background on the OPs situation than you do.

 

Whilst I agree that women (or men) should never use sex to get the upper hand in a relationship, and it happens far too frequently, people use all sorts of tactics to 'control' each other in long term relationships. Just because sex happens to be the bargaining tool in this situation doesn't make a man less of a man - especially if loves his wife and is choosing to put other things in his life before sex.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong and I mean no offence, but have you ever been married or in a LTR? From your previous posts I suspsect not (don't you disapprove of marriage?) - and therefore I do wonder what brings you to this section of the forum other than to make harsh comments to genuine people who are suffering in their marriages.

 

Walking away from any long term relationship is hard enough when you have invested yourself emotionally for several months or years. Walking away from a 25 year marriage, when you have invested a lifetime in that person - and probably still love them on some level - and may also have children (who would be devasted by your leaving) is a whole different ball game.

 

Your post may be accurate in many respects but please have some compassion when posting here. You don't know what situation other posters are in and you may be pouring salt on open wounds.

[LittleTiger]

Exactly how, considering her views on sex and AD's and Issues?

 

Sorry you are losing me on that one.....

 

TDP there are many men out there who are only too willing to take a fragile woman under their wing - there are even some who aren't that bothered about sex!

 

Hard to be believe for you guys maybe, but true nonetheless.

[giotto]

TDP there are many men out there who are only too willing to take a fragile woman under their wing - there are even some who aren't that bothered about sex!

 

Hard to be believe for you guys maybe, but true nonetheless.

 

Absolutely! I don't think she would have a problem finding another man...

[StoneCold]

but most of us have been here a while and some of us have a little more background on the OPs situation than you do.

 

Fair enough

 

Whilst I agree that women (or men) should never use sex to get the upper hand in a relationship, and it happens far too frequently, people use all sorts of tactics to 'control' each other in long term relationships. Just because sex happens to be the bargaining tool in this situation doesn't make a man less of a man - especially if loves his wife and is choosing to put other things in his life before sex.

 

My point is... why is it that sex almost always gets relegated to the bin of unimportance while everything else beats it out? why? and why is it that man always back down on that issue and allow women to dismiss them?

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong and I mean no offence, but have you ever been married or in a LTR? From your previous posts I suspsect not (don't you disapprove of marriage?) - and therefore I do wonder what brings you to this section of the forum other than to make harsh comments to genuine people who are suffering in their marriages.

 

LOL.. well yes Tiger...you are indeed wrong...but I forgive you . I am in fact married...AND "sexless". My opinions come from personal experience from my own marriage combined with observations of my wife's previous marriage, of friend's marriage, family's marriages, acquaintances marriages, whats communicated in the media and the habits and tendencies of people as a whole...my opinion was derived from the commonalities I noted right accross the board.

 

Walking away from any long term relationship is hard enough when you have invested yourself emotionally for several months or years. Walking away from a 25 year marriage, when you have invested a lifetime in that person - and probably still love them on some level - and may also have children (who would be devasted by your leaving) is a whole different ball game.

 

I understand this completely brother...this is why I am still married and don't plan on leaving. The thought of losing my daughter is too much to bear. But at the same time just because my wife chooses to ignore a need of mine doesn't mean I'm just supposed to go with it regardless of what I may think.

 

Your post may be accurate in many respects but please have some compassion when posting here. You don't know what situation other posters are in and you may be pouring salt on open wounds.

 

I mean no harm....

 

But coming from a similar path (or perhaps even worse in some cases)...and going through many transitions... I've learned that pussy footing around this issue achieves nothing.

 

Sorry but I'd rather come off strong and potentially help...than pussy foot and be sure to be of no help at all....but thats just me

Edited February 2, 2011 by StoneCold

[mem11363]

SC,

And what have you done in your marriage to fix this?

 

 

Fair enough

 

 

 

My point is... why is it that sex almost always gets relegated to the bin of unimportance while everything else beats it out? why? and why is it that man always back down on that issue and allow women to dismiss them?

 

 

 

LOL.. well yes Tiger...you are indeed wrong...but I forgive you . I am in fact married...AND "sexless". My opinions come from personal experience from my own marriage combined with observations of my wife's previous marriage, of friend's marriage, family's marriages, acquaintances marriages, whats communicated in the media and the habits and tendencies of people as a whole...my opinion was derived from the commonalities I noted right accross the board.

 

 

 

I understand this completely brother...this is why I am still married and don't plan on leaving. The thought of losing my daughter is too much to bear. But at the same time just because my wife chooses to ignore a need of mine doesn't mean I'm just supposed to go with it regardless of what I may think.

 

 

 

I mean no harm....

 

But coming from a similar path (or perhaps even worse in some cases)...and going through many transitions... I've learned that pussy footing around this issue achieves nothing.

 

Sorry but I'd rather come off strong and potentially help...than pussy foot and be sure to be of no help at all....but thats just me

[StoneCold]

SC,

And what have you done in your marriage to fix this?

 

The only thing I can do...communication...which I am very open about but as soon as I try to initiate a rational discussion she blows up says dumb things like:

 

"Not everything is sex".... uuuh no nobody said that

 

or

 

"All you talk about is sex"...really? the last time we had sex was 9 months ago and until now I have not said a peep because it always ends up like this.

 

 

Only reason why I have not went to marriage counseling yet is because If I do and it fails I'll be backed into making a decision that I am just not ready to act on yet.

what has she done to fix this?

Edited February 2, 2011 by StoneCold

[LittleTiger]

My point is... why is it that sex almost always gets relegated to the bin of unimportance while everything else beats it out? why? and why is it that man always back down on that issue and allow women to dismiss them?

 

Probably because, when it boils down to what people value most in the world, sex actually falls lower in the list of priorites than you might expect - even for men. Children, security, friendship, companionship, familiarity and even love may all come before sex. The man makes that decision for himself and valuing any of those things above sex doesn't make him less of a man.

 

LOL.. well yes Tiger...you are indeed wrong...but I forgive you . I am in fact married...AND "sexless". My opinions come from personal experience from my own marriage combined with observations of my wife's previous marriage, of friend's marriage, family's marriages, acquaintances marriages, whats communicated in the media and the habits and tendencies of people as a whole...my opinion was derived from the commonalities I noted right accross the board.

 

OK, my mistake and my apologies. I'm sure I read somewhere that you don't believe in marriage but I guess that could just as easily come from experience of marriage as the lack of it.

 

I understand this completely brother...this is why I am still married and don't plan on leaving. The thought of losing my daughter is too much to bear. But at the same time just because my wife chooses to ignore a need of mine doesn't mean I'm just supposed to go with it regardless of what I may think.

 

Now that is funny! I'm not your brother, not even your sister - but I'm definitely female - at least I was last time I looked. You're not the first person on here to mistake me for a man (although if you had read my posts on this thread I think it's obvious I'm not).

 

I assume then that you have sex outside your marriage? To be honest, if your wife knows about it and doesn't mind, I suppose that's ok, in theory. Not sure how it would work in practise. Of course some men don't want sex with anyone except their wives, and yet their wives don't want sex - not a good position to be in.

 

I mean no harm....

 

But coming from a similar path (or perhaps even worse in some cases)...and going through many transitions... I've learned that pussy footing around this issue achieves nothing.

 

Sorry but I'd rather come off strong and potentially help...than pussy foot and be sure to be of no help at all....but thats just me

 

I'm sure you don't mean any harm but, really, if you did know how long some of the guys on here had been battling with this issue you'd realise that it probably doesn't matter what you say.

 

People only change (themselves or their situation) when their current situation becomes unbearable. These guys haven't reached that point yet, so a proverbial 'kick up the butt' isn't going to help.

[mem11363]

If she does not believe you WILL leave OR that you will get your needs met outside the marriage over this she has no motivation to work with you on it.

 

If you aren't actually willing to leave or openly "go outside" nothing will change as long as you continue to make your "core" contributions - which are likely financial.

 

Because if she doesn't care that much about sex - note I didn't say she "dislikes" it - just doesn't care one way or the other - if you are at least doing your part financially she can get ALL her other needs met outside the marriage without breaking her vows.

 

Of course you can also continue doing what you are - which is basically allowing someone else to "enforce" YOUR celibacy. But that is completely up to you.

 

The only thing I can do...communication...which I am very open about but as soon as I try to initiate a rational discussion she blows up says dumb things like:

 

"Not everything is sex".... uuuh no nobody said that

 

or

 

"All you talk about is sex"...really? the last time we had sex was 9 months ago and until now I have not said a peep because it always ends up like this.

 

 

Only reason why I have not went to marriage counseling yet is because If I do and it fails I'll be backed into making a decision that I am just not ready to act on yet.

what has she done to fix this?

[LittleTiger]

what has she done to fix this?

 

We're kind of back-tracking a bit here but I'm guessing she's happy for things to stay as they are, so she has no incentive to do anything.

 

It seems you are in a similar situation to the others after all.

[giotto]

It seems you are in a similar situation to the others after all.

 

well, no. I took action - albeit rather late - and at least I don't have to wait 9 months to have sex... the frequency could be better and it's not perfect, but it was a result... So, SC, act...

[xxoo]

Sounds like StoneCold has taken action--ie, getting sex outside the marriage:

 

Guys, take your dignity back....if your wife wants to play those games dont play them with her...opt out...I do; I'll just find someone else whos game.

 

but of course some of you will say... "oh thats cheating"...you're right it is....but the way I see it shes cheating you too so you may as well just handle your business. If you dont take matters into your own hands (certainly no pun) the only one that loses is you.

[LittleTiger]

Sounds like StoneCold has taken action--ie, getting sex outside the marriage:

 

Yes, that's how I read it too.

[StoneCold]

Sounds like StoneCold has taken action--ie, getting sex outside the marriage:

 

oh....loooong time ago. I was just telling you guys the back story

[xxoo]

oh....loooong time ago. I was just telling you guys the back story

 

Well then, I guess the only remaining question is....does your outside source of sex guarantee you sex on birthdays, Christmas, Veteran's day?

 

But seriously, have you told your wife you are going outside the marriage? I don't have an issue with your choice of action, but think she should know.

[StoneCold]

But seriously, have you told your wife you are going outside the marriage? I don't have an issue with your choice of action, but think she should know.

 

No...but shes not stupid; what woman would honestly think that thier man is going to go along with their choice to forego sex? months (in some cases years for some ) and thats just ok? lol you'd have to be the most naive person on the face of the earth if you think thats what will happen.

 

Trust me they know...guys if you are in a sexless relationship for an extended period of time and you are ****ing around...they know....If you're not...they expected you to...so you may as well

[secretlady76]

No...but shes not stupid; what woman would honestly think that thier man is going to go along with their choice to forego sex? months (in some cases years for some ) and thats just ok? lol you'd have to be the most naive person on the face of the earth if you think thats what will happen.

 

Trust me they know...guys if you are in a sexless relationship for an extended period of time and you are ****ing around...they know....If you're not...they expected you to...so you may as well

 

Pride comes before a fall and what you just wrote their sounds a little arrogant. Once your wife finds out you've been playing away from home, she will most probably throw a wobbler and then want to kick you out (knee jeark reaction). You'll say it was all her fault for refusing sex and she'll say that was your fault for not meeting her emotional needs. It can't go on like this forever, sounds like the two of you need to put some energy into your marriage before you blow it to pieces. I feel your pain and that of your wife. It's not fun.

[StoneCold]

Pride comes before a fall and what you just wrote their sounds a little arrogant. Once your wife finds out you've been playing away from home, she will most probably throw a wobbler and then want to kick you out (knee jeark reaction). You'll say it was all her fault for refusing sex and she'll say that was your fault for not meeting her emotional needs. It can't go on like this forever, sounds like the two of you need to put some energy into your marriage before you blow it to pieces. I feel your pain and that of your wife. It's not fun.

 

How does it sound arrogant?

[Richard Friedman]

And why can't a man who busts his ass to provide for his family expect sex maybe twice a week, much less on his birthday? Looking at the replies to this thread it's no secret why the divorce rate is 50%; women want the the commitment and ceremony of marriage without any of the obligation. Would it kill you to take 30-40 minutes a couple times a week to fulfill the man you supposedly love? Surely you spend more time taking out the/trash/doing the dishes etc. The fact of the matter is that the male sex drive is something women can't comprehend. Maybe they enjoy sex just as much but they don't need it as urgently. Fact: women have a tiny amount of testosterone compared to men. Fact: whole industries have sprung up to cater to the male libido and the female counterparts are negligible. If there was the demand then the market would have shifted to feed it but it hasn't. That alone should cut past all the pc bull**** feminists and their male fanboys like to spout.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Richard Friedman

[Richard Friedman]

Ladies, denying your man sex is denying a fundamental biological need. It's just cruel, no matter how you rationalize it. I mean, he's already committed to forgoing sex with anyone else for the rest of his life. Don't you think it's right to give him a couple inches in return? Men are easy to please. Instead of going on a spiel about how this this is a caveman mentality and men who need sex should go back to the 50s, just make him happy and he'll make you happy. Simple concept. As for the manginas who feel enlightened because they "nobly" forgo sex, have fun jacking off in the shower. Betty Friedan would be proud.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

The fact of the matter is that the male sex drive is something women can't comprehend. Maybe they enjoy sex just as much but they don't need it as urgently. Fact: women have a tiny amount of testosterone compared to men. Fact: whole industries have sprung up to cater to the male libido and the female counterparts are negligible. If there was the demand then the market would have shifted to feed it but it hasn't. That alone should cut past all the pc bull**** feminists and their male fanboys like to spout.

 

Actually pharmaceuticals are spending a lot to find a female equivalent (why would they forgo 50% of the population). The sad result of their research and marketing effort is that women are not interested and are skeptical that anything it does release is nothing but a marketing ploy.....

[mem11363]

TDP,

I really wish you were able to do what your W needs in order for her to crave YOU. I really do. It is sad reading your posts year after year.

 

 

Actually pharmaceuticals are spending a lot to find a female equivalent (why would they forgo 50% of the population). The sad result of their research and marketing effort is that women are not interested and are skeptical that anything it does release is nothing but a marketing ploy.....

[Toodamnpragmatic]

TDP,

I really wish you were able to do what your W needs in order for her to crave YOU. I really do. It is sad reading your posts year after year.

 

I will refrain from asking whether your wife actually CRAVES you, or just goes through the motions because she is obliged to? I read your posts and sometimes feel very sorry for your spouse and the games you play with her so you can get sex..... I really do recommend masturbating for you and give your wife a break.....

 

I made this post 2-3 weeks ago (you have even responded to it) and now you feel you have to stick it to me after I responded to pharmaceuticals trying to market female viagra and the issues they are facing. Really????

[mem11363]

I actually - mainly - see this as a place to learn and to share. I don't see it as a "competition". Take XX as an example. I find her posts to be rather insightful. And not just in the abstract.

 

Last year XX made a comment to the effect that if Mrs. MEM wanted to take a break I should give it to her. Made sense to me. A little while after that my W was in a difficult place and I just stopped initiating. And for roughly a year she set the pace - which was about 1/2 our typical "compromise" pace. I had one moment during that year where I was tempted to comment - for certain it would have sounded like a complaint. I refrained. And yes we DID have a very painful confrontation about sex and our marriage a few months ago. She was very mean. It STILL makes me a little sad that she did that.

 

That said - last year when she needed "less" I didn't grind the gears. I kept doing all the normal stuff realizing that she was truly doing the best she could. I credit XX and her story about the year after she gave birth - and how she felt and what her H did. And so - during that time I truly did the best I could for her.

 

And now - we are back in a really good place in every sense of the word. I won't say more than that because honesty is also cruelty when dealing with folks whose standard disclaimer is "I know I am doing better than most".

 

As for my W - she is back to saying she is "in love" with me and certainly acts that way. So while it is true that when provoked, I am capable of being harsh and extremely cold - perhaps you might rethink exactly what it is women "want" vs. what they say they want.

 

 

I will refrain from asking whether your wife actually CRAVES you, or just goes through the motions because she is obliged to? I read your posts and sometimes feel very sorry for your spouse and the games you play with her so you can get sex..... I really do recommend masturbating for you and give your wife a break.....

 

I made this post 2-3 weeks ago (you have even responded to it) and now you feel you have to stick it to me after I responded to pharmaceuticals trying to market female viagra and the issues they are facing. Really????

[StoneCold]

Ladies, denying your man sex is denying a fundamental biological need. It's just cruel, no matter how you rationalize it. I mean, he's already committed to forgoing sex with anyone else for the rest of his life. Don't you think it's right to give him a couple inches in return? Men are easy to please. Instead of going on a spiel about how this this is a caveman mentality and men who need sex should go back to the 50s, just make him happy and he'll make you happy. Simple concept. As for the manginas who feel enlightened because they "nobly" forgo sex, have fun jacking off in the shower. Betty Friedan would be proud.

 

Oh no... the floodgates are open now because you just said in not so many words that women have to actually put in some effort DO something for their man.