Is pain inevitable?

[OWoman]

A couple of posters have recently claimed that it's inevitable in an A that ALL THREE people will get hurt.

 

This hasn't been my experience at all.

 

In many of my As, the BW never knew about them, so was never hurt by them. The MM may or may not have been hurt when dumped - probably some were, and others weren't - and I certainly was never hurt.

 

In my last A, my H went through a lot of pain and soul-searching, which related to many things (the years of abuse, and confronting why he'd allowed that, etc) but certainly views the A as a source of positivity and pleasure, rather than pain. For me, it's been nothing but good. For his kids, his extended family and his friends, it's all been positive. The only possible person who may have been hurt in the process was the BW - but she had a BF before he was even out the door and only seemed to experience anything once he dumped her and she found herself alone with her cats.

 

Even if one accepts the premise that the A must necessarily hurt the BS - whether or not they know about it (and this is very contested; I know some BSs on infidelity claim they would rather not know and be happy in their ignorance) - do you think it is necessary that the OW / OM must experience hurt as a result of the A? And the MP?

 

I'm particularly interested in the views of OMs, OWs and WSs as to whether pain features in their As, and whether they think that is inevitable, but anyone's views are welcome provided they do not constitute personal attacks on anyone, or any other violations of the TOS.

[greengoddess]

Just going with your title. Yes pain is inevitable when you involve yourself as the 3rd person in a two person relationship.

 

You may think the men you were playings with wives did not get hurt but they did. Just not that you saw. While they were out playing with you using family, children household time and money on you the wife was picking up all the slack. She was probably continually asking her husband what was wrong as he probably lied and said work issues. He was probably moody and guilty and pulling away more and more from his family. Just because you didn't hear about the pain do not assume that you had no negative impact and his wife and children. You did.

[herenow]

I would say that it depends on each individuals threshold of pain.

[East7]

 

Even if one accepts the premise that the A must necessarily hurt the BS - whether or not they know about it (and this is very contested; I know some BSs on infidelity claim they would rather not know and be happy in their ignorance) - do you think it is necessary that the OW / OM must experience hurt as a result of the A? And the MP?

 

Oh yes everyone gets hurt !

People get hurt from a divorce, let alone a triangle R/A.

 

Its true that many BSs never know they have been cheated on, but the secret and the A can't last forever, so behind the BS ignorance there is always a dumped heartbroken AP or MP.

And BTW I don't think BSs are happy with not knowing...Who wants that? Would you prefer to ignore if your H has sneaked around?

 

How can the OW/OM not be hurt? Assuming they are the one who walked away first because fed up with waiting, didn't they wasted time and feelings for someone who never gave them 100% of a relationship. Do you really thing the OM/OW are happy when they leave ? Relieved maybe, happy no.

[half_ofa_heart]

Oh yes everyone gets hurt !

People get hurt from a divorce, let alone a triangle R/A.

 

Its true that many BSs never know they have been cheated on, but the secret and the A can't last forever, so behind the BS ignorance there is always a dumped heartbroken AP or MP.

And BTW I don't think BSs are happy with not knowing...Who wants that? Would you prefer to ignore if your H has sneaked around?

 

How can the OW/OM not be hurt? Assuming they are the one who walked away first because fed up with waiting, didn't they wasted time and feelings for someone who never gave them 100% of a relationship. Do you really thing the OM/OW are happy when they leave ? Relieved maybe, happy no.

 

 

I cannot attest to how I will feel when I leave because I have not been successful at leaving; however, I CAN attest to the pain I am feeling now as the OW. It is awful! I am hurt because I am 100% in love with a man who is not available to love me 100% in return. But here is the clencher... I also hurt for the pain I am causing his wife and kids even though they don't know about me. Guilt inflicts a different kind of pain but it's a pain nonetheless. I stay because I am conflicted with the love I feel for him and pain I am feeling because of it.

 

I simply cannot understand how anyone can not feel some kind of pain in love triangle, but that's just me.

[Owl]

I would say in the vast, vast majority of affairs, yes, pain is pretty much inevitable.

 

The problem is that most people can't completely seperate the physical act from the emotional.

 

If it's j"ust EA", it eventually turns PA if there's opportunity. If it's "just PA"...nearly always one or the other partner (or both) begin to develop emotional bonds as well.

 

And if everything keeps going on without a hitch, most people don't want to end the affair. Unless some circumstance intervenes (one partner moves, or the other becomes fed up with the relationship), it continues and escalates until someone's caught or confessed.

 

Even beyond all that...there's still the investment of time/energy/emotions into the affair...that come at the expense being spent elsewhere, like the MM/MW's spouse/family.

 

This is all why I really don't ever see these things as remotely positive.

[desertIslandCactus]

Pain is inevitable and with circumstances of life.

 

I was just listening to an episode of 'Handel on the Law' (radio). He is saying when he was a child - from the time he first went to school, his lunch bucket was that of an industrial adult's big black domed lunch box. And with a sandwich with one piece of bologne between pieces of dry rye bread, because the sandwich wasn't wrapped. (no mustard, mayo, lettuce, tomato etc) .. It got loose in the lunch box and bologne stuck to side of container for him to put back together .. Because of being a behavioral prob, he would sit in the corner of the classroom, putting his 'sandwich' back together and eat it. It was like this until he started making his own lunch. And saying that even after making his own lunch, his parents never did - get it. And to this day, his parents still do not 'get it' ha That's his opinion of them.

 

I'm just saying that pain through circumstances and life, is inevitable - and don't expect those involved to 'get it'.

 

When you think about it, with all in life that you would consider 'sin'.. Do you know of Any sins that do not adversely affect others. Of course infidelity affects others, and many.

 

As for the OW/OM, there are many on the boards who waste months/years of their life with someone who cannot give them a new relationship. And with the two being of equal without affecting another relationship beforehand.

 

Through life it's best to give and receive without consequence to another or others.

[BB07]

I would say yes, although it is dependent on how each participant views that sort of thing as to who gets hurt and why. For example if mm/mw/ow is a narcissist then it's highly unlikely they will be hurt as they don't feel guilt or any remorse since it's all about them. For the ow/om who falls in love with the mm/mw and they are sharing the mm/mw, hurt is inevitable. For the bs who is betrayed because they assumed they had a faithful spouse, hurt is inevitable. Even if the bs never finds out the truth, there would be things that happened or were said they would have caused them pain that otherwise wouldn't have occurred had one spouse not been in an affair. For the mm/mw who is not narcissistic they are going to go through pain also as they will feel torn, confusion and guilt.

So in conlcusion..........JMO but someone if not all in the triangle will be in pain at some point in time.

[bentnotbroken]

A couple of posters have recently claimed that it's inevitable in an A that ALL THREE people will get hurt.

 

This hasn't been my experience at all.

 

In many of my As, the BW never knew about them, so was never hurt by them. The MM may or may not have been hurt when dumped - probably some were, and others weren't - and I certainly was never hurt.

 

In my last A, my H went through a lot of pain and soul-searching, which related to many things (the years of abuse, and confronting why he'd allowed that, etc) but certainly views the A as a source of positivity and pleasure, rather than pain. For me, it's been nothing but good. For his kids, his extended family and his friends, it's all been positive. The only possible person who may have been hurt in the process was the BW - but she had a BF before he was even out the door and only seemed to experience anything once he dumped her and she found herself alone with her cats.

 

Even if one accepts the premise that the A must necessarily hurt the BS - whether or not they know about it (and this is very contested; I know some BSs on infidelity claim they would rather not know and be happy in their ignorance) - do you think it is necessary that the OW / OM must experience hurt as a result of the A? And the MP?

 

I'm particularly interested in the views of OMs, OWs and WSs as to whether pain features in their As, and whether they think that is inevitable, but anyone's views are welcome provided they do not constitute personal attacks on anyone, or any other violations of thero TOS.

 

 

I would say in 9 out of 10 cases everyone is hurt. Even during you own situation. If you loved your husband(and I am not saying you don't) didn't you at least hurt for him and his children during the turmoil. Granted there seems to have been problems before your appearance on the scene, but those problems took on an added dynamic because of the affair and that caused everyone else additional pain.

 

The thing about BS not knowing therefore not being hurt...bothers me because without all the knowledge that everyone else is privy to, it limits one's ability to make the proper decisions for their life. The decisions that I made based on more than 20 years of what I believed to be the truth were indeed detrimental to my long term well being and financial stability.

 

I am a firm believer that the truth always comes to light eventually sometimes years and even after death in some cases. The ones who find out years later may feel as though the lived a lie. They may wonder what parts of their lives were true and which ones were false. They may wonder if they missed out having someone love them in truth and honesty while they spent their energy, love and youth on someone who didn't even respect them enough to speak the truth to them.

 

In the cases of the death, those spouses are left with questions. Who is going to answer them? Where do they place the anger? How do they cope in a healthy manner when every answer they may get is second hand or conjecture? The person not only betrayed them in life, they betrayed them by dying(which is normal for most people who lose loved ones)?

 

Why is it acceptable for one person to live parts of their lives in the dark and others control the light switch?

[jj33]

Not inevitable at all. Agree with you 1000% OWoman.

 

Prior to xMM when I was young I was in affairs where W never knew, MMs and I had same expectations, we enjoyed the time we spent together and when I had enough or met someone single I wanted to date, it ended.

 

Maybe one of the MMs was disappointed, but I dont think he was hurt, but I dont know because we lost contact after the A.

 

I think there is only pain if (1) the BS finds out and is not happy about it, or is gaslighted or feels that there is something wrong in the marriage and cant figure out what it is; (2) the APs do not have the same expectations or level of commitment to the A and one or both of them are disappointed that it does not go further.

 

But that is not all cases. Its most of the cases on this board but not all cases. I think the majority of the OW/OM who post here post because they are unhappy with either the way the A ended, or the level of commitment shown by the MP.

[silktricks]

I don't believe that there is EVER a catch-all that truly does catch ALL. So, no, I do not believe that it is inevitable that all 3 experience pain.

 

1. If a BS is never aware of being a BS, they most likely do not experience pain.

 

2. If the WS is a serial cheater, they most likely do not experience pain.

 

3. If the OW/OM is not deeply emotionally involved in the affair, they will probably not experience pain.

 

4. If the MM/MW quickly leaves the marriage for the OW/OM and pursues that relationship as the primary, the OW/OM will probably experience little if any pain, the MM/MW will probably experience some pain, as change often does create some measure of pain, and the BS probably will (but not assuredly, as he/she could be not heavily invested in the marriage him/herself).

 

5. etc. etc...

 

like I said, no catch all. Are the odds high that all 3 will experience pain? Yeah, the odds are high. But there is no inevitability.

[2sure]

We are all taught from a young age to be careful using the terms Always and Never when discussing nearly anything, especially matters of opinion. When someone says "always" to me , I dont bother pointing out that an exception is a possibilty - I assume they know that.

 

 

In an affair (bus accident, armed robbery,tornado) not everyone is hurt 100% of the time.

[Owl]

I don't believe that there is EVER a catch-all that truly does catch ALL. So, no, I do not believe that it is inevitable that all 3 experience pain.

 

1. If a BS is never aware of being a BS, they most likely do not experience pain.

 

2. If the WS is a serial cheater, they most likely do not experience pain.

 

3. If the OW/OM is not deeply emotionally involved in the affair, they will probably not experience pain.

 

4. If the MM/MW quickly leaves the marriage for the OW/OM and pursues that relationship as the primary, the OW/OM will probably experience little if any pain, the MM/MW will probably experience some pain, as change often does create some measure of pain, and the BS probably will (but not assuredly, as he/she could be not heavily invested in the marriage him/herself).

 

5. etc. etc...

 

like I said, no catch all. Are the odds high that all 3 will experience pain? Yeah, the odds are high. But there is no inevitability.

 

Well...the difference between "inevitable" and "high odds" are kinda nebulous.

 

You're right...very little in the world is "inevitable" besides gravity and death.

 

But I think the difference between "inevitable" and "high odds" are pretty darned miniscule.

 

Even if the WS is never "caught", that doesn't mean that the affair isn't hurting the BS. As I'd mentioned in my response...there's still the emotional detachment, withdrawl, time spent away from spouse and family, heck even often a financial cost created by the affair, felt by the BS even if they didn't know the reason why.

 

And one of the most common 'causes' of pain occurs when people THINK that they can avoid deep emotional involvment, only to find out that physical connection often leads to emotional connection, and/or vice versa. Even if ONE side doesn't become emotionally attached...very, very commonly one or the other does. Hence the "pain".

 

Like I'd mentioned...it may not be inevitable...but it's so close as not to matter.

[2sure]

You know , I just thought:

 

When I was OW to MMen...there was never a D-Day, no one was ever caught (at least with me) . I was never hurt by a break up. MM were more likely to be disappointed than heartbroken at the end. And at the time, until I decided not to do it anymore...I thought it was harmless. I thought it worked for me.

 

But it wasnt. I didnt have to remarry and become a BS to find that out. I realized even before then that I was hurting myself by being involved with MM. Deeply. And then when I fell in love and married for love...I then for the first time truly understood what the bond of marriage represented ...and now I still feel regret and remorse over my personal negative participation in the lives of strangers. I know that if it had not been me their H's cheated with , it would have been someone else. Still, I also own that it was ME that became an unknown cancer in their life. Thats hurts them.

 

After I became a BS...the only change to my thoughts were about the MM. But that part of my thinking is not yet fit for public consumption.

[lovingwhatis]

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

 

I assume we are speaking of emotional pain. But ultimately pain is pain, and it is transient. Have you ever stayed with a sharp physical pain instead of taking a pain killer? Unless it is something that is severely wrong, the pain will eventually go away. But we are conditioned to not want Any pain. In my experience, we are just setting ourselves up for a disappointment.

 

Owoman, You say that you never experienced pain as a result of an A, and assert that others around you haven't haven't either. That in my view is denial. You have never experienced the pain resulting from mild disappointment of someone (H, MM, or friend) who stands you up? Or the pain of watching someone you love be in pain? Or the harsh remark of someone who is under stress and it is subconsciously taking it out on you?

 

In my experience, pain is there, what stories we tell ourselves in order to circumvent the fact that we Do not want to experience the pain is another thing. And why do we not want to experience it? Because since we were kids we got the message that pain to be avoided at all costs.

 

Instead, we can experience the pain of not getting what we want in life, and see that, lo and behold, it is not so bad after all.

 

So yes, I feel that pain in As is inevitable.

[desertIslandCactus]

One of these posts reminded me of something I had read on another thread regarding previous pregnancy and abortion.

 

So yes, I'm going to say that even if an OW feels she wasn't involved emotionally, (for whatever reason) .. Still we're talking about Another innocent human in addition to the OW/WS/W/existing families.

[AngeletteX]

A couple of posters have recently claimed that it's inevitable in an A that ALL THREE people will get hurt.

 

I'm particularly interested in the views of OMs, OWs and WSs as to whether pain features in their As, and whether they think that is inevitable, but anyone's views are welcome provided they do not constitute personal attacks on anyone, or any other violations of the TOS.

 

OWoman, I can only speak for myself but if my R was causing me PAIN I wouldn't be in it.

[silktricks]

Well...the difference between "inevitable" and "high odds" are kinda nebulous.

 

You're right...very little in the world is "inevitable" besides gravity and death.

 

But I think the difference between "inevitable" and "high odds" are pretty darned miniscule.

 

Even if the WS is never "caught", that doesn't mean that the affair isn't hurting the BS. As I'd mentioned in my response...there's still the emotional detachment, withdrawl, time spent away from spouse and family, heck even often a financial cost created by the affair, felt by the BS even if they didn't know the reason why.

 

And one of the most common 'causes' of pain occurs when people THINK that they can avoid deep emotional involvment, only to find out that physical connection often leads to emotional connection, and/or vice versa. Even if ONE side doesn't become emotionally attached...very, very commonly one or the other does. Hence the "pain".

 

Like I'd mentioned...it may not be inevitable...but it's so close as not to matter.

 

Sorry, Owl, but I really do have to disagree here. I truly don't think the difference is "nebulous" nor inconsequential. There are probably many affairs where no one suffers pain, and there are without any particle of a doubt VERY many affairs where at least one of the participants does not suffer pain. And that was, after all, the question. Is it inevitable that ALL 3 suffer pain.

 

I do not have any clue as to the numbers of people who are serial cheaters. I know that I was married to one. He suffered ZERO pain from his numerous affairs, right up to the day I divorced him. I know that after I divorced him and went through my own "crazy" time. I had an affair. I suffered NO pain, nor did the serial cheater I cheated with. His wife never knew. Did she suffer pain? Questionable, as she was in a different state at the time. He was working out of town.

 

I do understand and to a certain point agree that the BS will "suffer" if her/his spouse is having an affair, but only to a point. There really are people who do not have close relationships. Though they may suffer the pain of humiliation and betrayal if they find out about the affair, those people will not as a matter of course suffer pain by the distance caused by an affair - because they are already distant.

 

Anyway - normally I agree with you, just not this time.

[AngeletteX]

And if everything keeps going on without a hitch, most people don't want to end the affair. Unless some circumstance intervenes (one partner moves, or the other becomes fed up with the relationship), it continues and escalates until someone's caught or confessed.

 

Or the WS gets D without the BS being none the wiser, afterwards the A/R continues in a more socially acceptable manner.

[AngeletteX]

When you think about it, with all in life that you would consider 'sin'.. Do you know of Any sins that do not adversely affect others. Of course infidelity affects others, and many.

 

Well then, what is it they say?

Let he who has no sin cast the first stone?

[Owl]

Or the WS gets D without the BS being none the wiser, afterwards the A/R continues in a more socially acceptable manner.

 

Other than the BS suddenly finds themselves handed a D with no understanding of what went wrong...and therefore end up deeply hurt/devestated by something they didn't see coming.

 

Sorry Ax...don't buy that scenario as "painless".

[Owl]

Anyway - normally I agree with you, just not this time.

 

No worries Silk, we can at least agree to disagree politely!

[anne1707]

Or the WS gets D without the BS being none the wiser, afterwards the A/R continues in a more socially acceptable manner.

 

But the divorce will still hurt so the affair is still causing pain.

 

When I had my affair, I knew I was in pain and I saw the pain I caused the ex-OM. After Dday, apart from the tremendous pain my H felt from that point, he said that he had wondered why things had been so difficult. So he did not know about the affair but it was still causing him pain because of my behaviour.

[lovingwhatis]

Well...the difference between "inevitable" and "high odds" are kinda nebulous.

 

You're right...very little in the world is "inevitable" besides gravity and death.

 

But I think the difference between "inevitable" and "high odds" are pretty darned miniscule.

 

Even if the WS is never "caught", that doesn't mean that the affair isn't hurting the BS. As I'd mentioned in my response...there's still the emotional detachment, withdrawl, time spent away from spouse and family, heck even often a financial cost created by the affair, felt by the BS even if they didn't know the reason why.

 

And one of the most common 'causes' of pain occurs when people THINK that they can avoid deep emotional involvment, only to find out that physical connection often leads to emotional connection, and/or vice versa. Even if ONE side doesn't become emotionally attached...very, very commonly one or the other does. Hence the "pain".

 

Like I'd mentioned...it may not be inevitable...but it's so close as not to matter.

Owl, I disagree with the first part but I agree with the second part. Yes, pain can be subconsciously felt, but not acknowledged or consciously experienced. Until maybe something else triggers it and the floodgates open. That goes for all 3 people related to the A.

[AngeletteX]

Other than the BS suddenly finds themselves handed a D with no understanding of what went wrong...and therefore end up deeply hurt/devestated by something they didn't see coming.

 

Sorry Ax...don't buy that scenario as "painless".

 

Where did I say it was painless?

 

The initial thread said "A couple of posters have recently claimed that it's inevitable in an A that ALL THREE people will get hurt".

 

In what I presented, 2 out of 3 are happy. So in that case, you can't say ALL THREE got hurt.