Is pain inevitable?

[donnamaybe]

In what I presented, 2 out of 3 are happy.

But wait 'til the MP kicks their AP to the curb after D day. Then let's see how many are happy.

[confusedinkansas]

I don't think that everyone gets hurt.

My Ex's ex-wife never found out about us.

My husband wasn't hurt at all. (maybe stunned for a day or two, but no hurt)

I was hurt - but now that the hurt/pain for me is gone I almost feel like I could be friends with my Ex-AP.

[Owl]

Where did I say it was painless?

 

The initial thread said "A couple of posters have recently claimed that it's inevitable in an A that ALL THREE people will get hurt".

 

In what I presented, 2 out of 3 are happy. So in that case, you can't say ALL THREE got hurt.

 

No, you're right. That's what was stated and I misread it.

 

It's entirely possible that one or two of the people in this situation could end up happy and not caring about the pain that they caused someone else. I don't believe that it's possible (or at least highly unlikely) that no one gets hurt.

 

It's possible that the OW/OM and MM/MW in the situation you described wouldn't care about the pain the BS felt. In my own life...pain I inflict on someone else usually "hurts" me in the end too. But...we're likely very different kinds of people.

[desertIslandCactus]

Well then, what is it they say?

Let he who has no sin cast the first stone?

 

I think the problem is those who flaunt it, brag about it, CELEBRATE it - and with all knowledge that the sin affects others, (as all sins do).

[desertIslandCactus]

But the divorce will still hurt so the affair is still causing pain.

 

When I had my affair, I knew I was in pain and I saw the pain I caused the ex-OM. After Dday, apart from the tremendous pain my H felt from that point, he said that he had wondered why things had been so difficult. So he did not know about the affair but it was still causing him pain because of my behaviour.

 

Exactly.

 

And a divorce can cause hurt in some family members such as the children, for years to come.

 

If an OW demands someone's H, she will also see to it that his children are ruled out every way incl financially..

 

One who splits a family, knows jealousy from beginning to the end.

[East7]

I agree with Owl, and I think everyone gets hurt during and after the A:

 

- BS gets hurt because he/she is neglected, ignored, nagged during the A, let alone the devastation of Dday.

 

- WS gets hurt because she/he is torn, has to lie, has to live a double life. WS gets eventually hurt when she/he dumps OM/OW or is being dumped. Like Owl said, even if it is just physical/sexual, people are not heartless, they end up having feelings.

 

-OM/OW get hurt during and after the A :

During the A, the waiting an longing is painful : some poster and I call it "chronic sadness".

After the A, no matter who dumps who, the A leaves a huge emotional emptiness which is still pain. Even 2sure admits that it was hurting her in some way (maybe feeling spiritually empty).

[jessie's girl]

A couple of posters have recently claimed that it's inevitable in an A that ALL THREE people will get hurt.

 

This hasn't been my experience at all.

 

In many of my As, the BW never knew about them, so was never hurt by them. The MM may or may not have been hurt when dumped - probably some were, and others weren't - and I certainly was never hurt.

 

In my last A, my H went through a lot of pain and soul-searching, which related to many things (the years of abuse, and confronting why he'd allowed that, etc) but certainly views the A as a source of positivity and pleasure, rather than pain. For me, it's been nothing but good. For his kids, his extended family and his friends, it's all been positive. The only possible person who may have been hurt in the process was the BW - but she had a BF before he was even out the door and only seemed to experience anything once he dumped her and she found herself alone with her cats.

 

Even if one accepts the premise that the A must necessarily hurt the BS - whether or not they know about it (and this is very contested; I know some BSs on infidelity claim they would rather not know and be happy in their ignorance) - do you think it is necessary that the OW / OM must experience hurt as a result of the A? And the MP?

 

I'm particularly interested in the views of OMs, OWs and WSs as to whether pain features in their As, and whether they think that is inevitable, but anyone's views are welcome provided they do not constitute personal attacks on anyone, or any other violations of the TOS.

 

of course in an affair, there is hurt. Many other women get hurt because they have to share their guy with the wife. The endless waiting, the endless being alone, the endless wondering. You must have a one of a kind affair history because I know several other women who have been hurt. I cannot tell you the number of nights I have cried myself to sleep over the loneliness and the wondering.

[NoIDidn't]

You know , I just thought:

 

When I was OW to MMen...there was never a D-Day, no one was ever caught (at least with me) . I was never hurt by a break up. MM were more likely to be disappointed than heartbroken at the end. And at the time, until I decided not to do it anymore...I thought it was harmless. I thought it worked for me.

 

But it wasnt. I didnt have to remarry and become a BS to find that out. I realized even before then that I was hurting myself by being involved with MM. Deeply. And then when I fell in love and married for love...I then for the first time truly understood what the bond of marriage represented ...and now I still feel regret and remorse over my personal negative participation in the lives of strangers. I know that if it had not been me their H's cheated with , it would have been someone else. Still, I also own that it was ME that became an unknown cancer in their life. Thats hurts them.

 

After I became a BS...the only change to my thoughts were about the MM. But that part of my thinking is not yet fit for public consumption.

 

I agree. I was going to post something similar. That just because one doesn't think they experienced pain at the time, they never know how the experience may come back to them.

 

I know many people that walk around saying they didn't get hurt or that no pain was experienced in a situation, only for them to have an epiphany one day that they were just too ignorant of the gravity of their actions to know what to really look for. They've concluded with they were empty emotionally, or that they were just clueless. But once the scales came off their eyes, they felt a remorse and deep regret that was hard to pull them out of. They were hurting in that instance.

 

For some, it does come with actually achieving the things that they tried to get for free from someone else. Then they saw how they were cheating themselves AND others. And I'm not even talking about affairs here.

[NoIDidn't]

I think the pain is inevitable.

 

 

I think everyone touched by affairs feels it spiritually in some way.

 

Its a heart of hearts kind of pain.

[OWoman]

Owoman, You say that you never experienced pain as a result of an A, and assert that others around you haven't haven't either. That in my view is denial. You have never experienced the pain resulting from mild disappointment of someone (H, MM, or friend) who stands you up? Or the pain of watching someone you love be in pain? Or the harsh remark of someone who is under stress and it is subconsciously taking it out on you?

 

Perhaps I just have a thicker skin, but I don't class any of that as pain. "Mild disappointment" is just that to me - mild disappointment, not pain. And if someone makes a harsh remark under stress, I don't take it personally. I acknowledge where it is coming from, and leave it there, rather than taking it onto myself.

 

My H did go through stress in the run up to, and during the initial stages of, his split with his xW, because of his concerns for the kids, and because of other traumas he was experiencing in other aspects of his life at that stage. And yes, I empathised with that pain - and experienced some too, related to the other traumas unrelated to the A. But the A itself - brought me no pain.

[OWoman]

I think the pain is inevitable.

 

 

I think everyone touched by affairs feels it spiritually in some way.

 

Its a heart of hearts kind of pain.

 

Then perhaps I don't have a heart?

[OWoman]

Exactly.

 

And a divorce can cause hurt in some family members such as the children, for years to come.

 

If an OW demands someone's H, she will also see to it that his children are ruled out every way incl financially..

 

One who splits a family, knows jealousy from beginning to the end.

 

Perhaps in your case this was so. In other cases, it's simply not true.

[OWoman]

Sorry, Owl, but I really do have to disagree here. I truly don't think the difference is "nebulous" nor inconsequential. There are probably many affairs where no one suffers pain, and there are without any particle of a doubt VERY many affairs where at least one of the participants does not suffer pain. And that was, after all, the question. Is it inevitable that ALL 3 suffer pain.

 

I do not have any clue as to the numbers of people who are serial cheaters. I know that I was married to one. He suffered ZERO pain from his numerous affairs, right up to the day I divorced him. I know that after I divorced him and went through my own "crazy" time. I had an affair. I suffered NO pain, nor did the serial cheater I cheated with. His wife never knew. Did she suffer pain? Questionable, as she was in a different state at the time. He was working out of town.

 

I do understand and to a certain point agree that the BS will "suffer" if her/his spouse is having an affair, but only to a point. There really are people who do not have close relationships. Though they may suffer the pain of humiliation and betrayal if they find out about the affair, those people will not as a matter of course suffer pain by the distance caused by an affair - because they are already distant.

 

Anyway - normally I agree with you, just not this time.

 

Silk, this makes a good deal of sense.

[pureinheart]

A couple of posters have recently claimed that it's inevitable in an A that ALL THREE people will get hurt.

 

This hasn't been my experience at all.

 

In many of my As, the BW never knew about them, so was never hurt by them. The MM may or may not have been hurt when dumped - probably some were, and others weren't - and I certainly was never hurt.

 

In my last A, my H went through a lot of pain and soul-searching, which related to many things (the years of abuse, and confronting why he'd allowed that, etc) but certainly views the A as a source of positivity and pleasure, rather than pain. For me, it's been nothing but good. For his kids, his extended family and his friends, it's all been positive. The only possible person who may have been hurt in the process was the BW - but she had a BF before he was even out the door and only seemed to experience anything once he dumped her and she found herself alone with her cats.

 

Even if one accepts the premise that the A must necessarily hurt the BS - whether or not they know about it (and this is very contested; I know some BSs on infidelity claim they would rather not know and be happy in their ignorance) - do you think it is necessary that the OW / OM must experience hurt as a result of the A? And the MP?

 

I'm particularly interested in the views of OMs, OWs and WSs as to whether pain features in their As, and whether they think that is inevitable, but anyone's views are welcome provided they do not constitute personal attacks on anyone, or any other violations of the TOS.

 

My answer would be no...AND I would like to interject that many things come into play as far as hurt goes. Everyone is different. Some people can handle difficult situations better than others.

 

While working and raising kids, I needed to put "my" stuff to the side (I am not saying this is a good idea, it was a necessity). Now I am able to work out the "stuff" and I am hurt by many of the things that happened to me.

 

I had been raised with the idea that pain has a short memory, for me it does, for others the hurt/pain remains for eternity or their time on this earth.

 

Many people hang on to pain as a banner, bringing it from place to place, R to R...these I believe will always be hurt no matter what...also they continue to to do the things that hurt them.

 

Others get over things quickly and heal fast and carry no grudges. They see things for what they are and have understanding and compassion. They rarely talk down to others unless engaged. They are able to see a future and have not sunk their entire life savings into one person, and when in a R allow that person their own space..these are technically not insecure people. They are well-balanced and successful.

[silverplanets]

A couple of posters have recently claimed that it's inevitable in an A that ALL THREE people will get hurt.

 

This hasn't been my experience at all.

In many of my As, the BW never knew about them, so was never hurt by them. The MM may or may not have been hurt when dumped - probably some were, and others weren't - and I certainly was never hurt.

 

In my last A, my H went through a lot of pain and soul-searching, which related to many things (the years of abuse, and confronting why he'd allowed that, etc) but certainly views the A as a source of positivity and pleasure, rather than pain. For me, it's been nothing but good. For his kids, his extended family and his friends, it's all been positive. The only possible person who may have been hurt in the process was the BW - but she had a BF before he was even out the door and only seemed to experience anything once he dumped her and she found herself alone with her cats.

 

Even if one accepts the premise that the A must necessarily hurt the BS - whether or not they know about it (and this is very contested; I know some BSs on infidelity claim they would rather not know and be happy in their ignorance) - do you think it is necessary that the OW / OM must experience hurt as a result of the A? And the MP?

 

I'm particularly interested in the views of OMs, OWs and WSs as to whether pain features in their As, and whether they think that is inevitable, but anyone's views are welcome provided they do not constitute personal attacks on anyone, or any other violations of the TOS.

 

I wonder if it is not just that any affair is the result of three people already hurting .....

 

- the BS is hurting because they are sharing their life with someone who, ultimately, does not believe that their human life (ie the BS's) is valuable enough to deserve honesty or respect.

 

- the WS is hurting because they are sharing their life with someone (their spouse) whom they do not, ultimately, believe is valuable enough as a human being to deserve honesty or respect.

 

- the AP is hurting because are in denial that their own actions are complicit in deceiving and disrespecting another human being ... compartmentalising all the "blame" for the disrespct onto the BS may be a good inner "self protection" but it doesn't exonerate the behaviour.

 

Thinking down this line a little more, perhaps one can argue that the A, in some cases, does in fact simply surface the existing hurt/pain and force everyone to deal with their own hurt/pain.

 

In other cases, of course, acknowledging inner pain (from whatever position of the triangle one is in) can be too painful and so it gets buried again.

 

So, I think I would disagree that A's cause pain .. I think the pain is allready there (in all parties) ... indeed, without the initial pain then there really would be no reason for the A.

 

Just my thoughts ... as I said, good question

 

be safe

Chris

[pureinheart]

Perhaps I just have a thicker skin, but I don't class any of that as pain. "Mild disappointment" is just that to me - mild disappointment, not pain. And if someone makes a harsh remark under stress, I don't take it personally. I acknowledge where it is coming from, and leave it there, rather than taking it onto myself.

 

My H did go through stress in the run up to, and during the initial stages of, his split with his xW, because of his concerns for the kids, and because of other traumas he was experiencing in other aspects of his life at that stage. And yes, I empathised with that pain - and experienced some too, related to the other traumas unrelated to the A. But the A itself - brought me no pain.

 

Change and fear of that change...even good change is uncomfortable.

[JaneyAmazed]

I haven't had time to read all the posts on this thread, but I feel very strongly that everyone gets hurt. I tried to convince myself during my affair that I wasn't hurting my husband because "what he doesn't know, won't hurt him." I thought I could still be a good wife and mom at home while leading this deceitful life. I was so wrong. The affair changed me and changed the way I treated my husband...not just the obvious betrayal, but I would just get irritated with him more easily. Being with xOM made me look for all the flaws in my husband so I could "justify" my affair. He even said that during those months, I could get quite bitchy and irrational and that's not normal for me. My opinion on xOM being hurt is of course it hurt him, but I'm not sure that he would see it that way. He can compartmentalize his "relationships" and doesn't seem to effect him. I haven't talked to him since I confessed so I don't know what's going on with him. Of course my husband was hurt before and after my confession. It would be a rare occurance for an affair to be a postitive thing for anyone. Maybe someone who is delusional or in the "affair fog" would think so, but not me. I remember the affair fog because it was not long ago. It's a scary, scary place to be because it's so far from reality. Dealing with the consequences after the fog is lifted is the worst pain I've ever felt.

[TinaniT]

I think there was pain for all three involved. I think it is better in the end, but there was pain.

 

For me there was pain in wondering whether I was hurting someone.. or many someones. Questioning myself.

 

For her, there was pain when he asked for a divorce (although it was a matter of time even if I had never been in the picture). She admitted as much as that the infidelity is not an issue for her, just the divorce.

 

It hurt for him in wondering if I was going to come out of the dark place and be able to leave my husband.

 

My husband did not seem particularly hurt other than annoyed I wasn't "his" (as he phrased it) anymore. But, his emotions are interesting in that he admits he normally has to think through what emotion he is going to portray and it doesn't come naturally.

 

Most the pain was related more to the divorce than the affair, except on my end... though it was largely self inflicted.

 

For my love's ex's affair - he didn't care about the affair but he wished she would have told him instead of just cutting off all affection and maybe they could have gotten a divorce earlier if it made them confront that there just hadn't been anything there for a long time. I don't know how she felt; I am not that close to her in our conversations and she never told him. For her affair partner, likewise though I know he must have been quite surprised/hurt when the fantasy did not equal reality when he had her.

 

So, there has been pain. But I wonder if that's true of most change. However, it is enough that no matter what, I would not have any part of an affair in any capacity again. Not that I would condemn another for the same choice I made, but I would not consider it.

[TinaniT]

If an OW demands someone's H, she will also see to it that his children are ruled out every way incl financially.. .

 

this is ridiculous.

 

Children ruled out? I supported (and encouraged, not that he needed much) my sweetheart to give well over the standard (and high, at his income) amount of child support. His kids and wife are getting half of his take home, to his lawyer's protest, on top of the large settlement and paid off house, to make sure his kids have everything they need. I think this is right; his kids are used to a certain standard, even if the law says less than half of that.

 

His kids are always welcome here, and I insisted in house shopping we have a house that makes sure they have their own rooms so they know they can always be here and are never being squeezed in. I talk to my soon to be step kids frequently and we get along quite well. Hell, I talk to former BW too, mainly as a matter of making sure the kids have as smooth a process as possible.

 

What bad soap opera were you watching for your information?

[desertIslandCactus]

this is ridiculous.

 

Children ruled out? I supported (and encouraged, not that he needed much) my sweetheart to give well over the standard (and high, at his income) amount of child support. His kids and wife are getting half of his take home, to his lawyer's protest, on top of the large settlement and paid off house, to make sure his kids have everything they need. I think this is right; his kids are used to a certain standard, even if the law says less than half of that.

 

His kids are always welcome here, and I insisted in house shopping we have a house that makes sure they have their own rooms so they know they can always be here and are never being squeezed in. I talk to my soon to be step kids frequently and we get along quite well.

 

 

Hell, I talk to former BW too, mainly as a matter of making sure the kids have as smooth a process as possible.

 

Let's hear it for your thinking you're wonderful, in Control, and ontop of things..

 

 

What bad soap opera were you watching for your information?

 

Our real life.

[TinaniT]

Our real life.

 

I am sorry.

[desertIslandCactus]

I am sorry.

 

Don't be sorry. You had nothing to do with it.

 

It happened a long time ago. But my adult sons still suffer the consequences of decisions made by a once loving, doting father.

[anne1707]

this is ridiculous.

 

Children ruled out? I supported (and encouraged, not that he needed much) my sweetheart to give well over the standard (and high, at his income) amount of child support. His kids and wife are getting half of his take home, to his lawyer's protest, on top of the large settlement and paid off house, to make sure his kids have everything they need. I think this is right; his kids are used to a certain standard, even if the law says less than half of that.

 

His kids are always welcome here, and I insisted in house shopping we have a house that makes sure they have their own rooms so they know they can always be here and are never being squeezed in. I talk to my soon to be step kids frequently and we get along quite well. Hell, I talk to former BW too, mainly as a matter of making sure the kids have as smooth a process as possible.

 

What bad soap opera were you watching for your information?

 

Hmmm

 

I remember my stepmother (i.e. my father's former OW) complaining to me that if it my father was not paying towards my college education then they would have been able to go on 2 or 3 foreign holidays a year instead of just 1. Funny how she never made such a complaint in front of my father....

[Spark1111]

Hmmm

 

I remember my stepmother (i.e. my father's former OW) complaining to me that if it my father was not paying towards my college education then they would have been able to go on 2 or 3 foreign holidays a year instead of just 1. Funny how she never made such a complaint in front of my father....

 

Ouch! I'm sorry you had to endure this!

[Spark1111]

I agree with Owl, and I think everyone gets hurt during and after the A:

 

- BS gets hurt because he/she is neglected, ignored, nagged during the A, let alone the devastation of Dday.

 

- WS gets hurt because she/he is torn, has to lie, has to live a double life. WS gets eventually hurt when she/he dumps OM/OW or is being dumped. Like Owl said, even if it is just physical/sexual, people are not heartless, they end up having feelings.

 

-OM/OW get hurt during and after the A :

During the A, the waiting an longing is painful : some poster and I call it "chronic sadness".

After the A, no matter who dumps who, the A leaves a huge emotional emptiness which is still pain. Even 2sure admits that it was hurting her in some way (maybe feeling spiritually empty).

 

I agree with this!