Venting, Ranting, Raving... anyone interested???

[shane147]

Okay, this could be rather wordy, so here goes. (Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to read and respond)

 

Here is my situation... Communication in my marriage is terrible. Passion is a thing of the past.

 

History: We were married at 18 years old.. right out of high school, (high school sweethearts), due in large part to us getting pregnant. We worked our way through college, etc... now both have pretty respectable, yet demanding careers. We have 3 kids.. 15, 5, and 3.

 

I could spend hours talking about examples of how our communication styles are different, but the long and short of it is this: I was raised by a counselor type parent. My mother is the greatest listener I've ever met. She isn't very opinionated, but I've never felt that she wasn't deeply interested in everything in my life. My father wasn't around, but I had a bad relationship with my stepfather. My wife was raised in a pretty dysfunctional family... father a passive alcoholic, mother a very demanding, almost overbearing army woman. My wife, like her mother have an overwhelming tendency to nag, blah, blah, blah.

 

We recently had a blow up.. we have at least one major explosion a week. Just typical stuff... no cheating, drinking, etc... just a small thing turns into something major after lots of finger pointing and so forth. We didn't talk for a while... and while lying in bed one night, I tried to tell my wife that I think our communication problems are seriously damaging our marriage. This isn't the first time I've said this. We get into a short argument.. and the conversation goes nowhere. I had tried to get her to open up and discuss ways that we could enrich communication in our marriage.. and she basically felt it wasn't a problem. I know it bothers her pretty bad, as I can see the same misery on her face that I feel inside.

 

Whenever we have a difference, and there are many, it always turns into a shouting match. Our kids usually aren't spared and I know we set a bad example. We show our children lots of love, but I feel that we set such a terrible example of how a family should function.

 

I've tried to talk to my wife in the past about many issues.. parenting, intimacy, things like that. These discussions almost always end up in the trash can. I can't think of a recent time where she would allow herself to see things my way. I can make an irrefutable comment and she shuts down. She is a big filterer who listens to a small percentage of what I say and how I say it and blocks the rest out.

 

Long and short of it.... I'm not getting any younger and can't take much more of this.

 

Some questions for posters here on the boards.

 

How often and how severe do you and your significant other argue?

 

How do you deal with things when your personalities grow apart over time after being married very young?

 

When is enough enough?

 

Do I sound like I"m asking too much to want my wife to listen (not obey).. just listen to me? Is that selfish? I really want to focus on her and give her lots of attention, but I find myself holding back from doing so, due to resentment that I feel from her and resentment that I have for our problems.

 

A penny for your thoughts....

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Not much to add, often feel the same..... Definitely can be traced back to her parents. I at least had a few years longer before I met my spouse at 23, no unplanned pregnancy though..... Yes fight a lot (both pig-headed and she is never wrong;)), but do think we have a pretty good marriage.

 

Does your spouse have sisters? Are they similar? One thing I can tell from my spouse and her sisters is I see many of the same traits, which confirms to me that it is a product of their upbringing.

 

Sound too typical of a lot of men here.

[mem11363]

Shane,

This needs to start and end with you. Shouting matches only happen when BOTH people lose tempers and/or one of them tolerates being shouted at.

 

The way to change this dynamic goes like this:

- You need to detach "your" emotions from hers. When she is angry/tense you need to honestly and quickly self assess. Did you do something wrong. If so, calmly and sincerely apologize once. And then give her a short time to "defuse" emotionally. If she "piles on" and gets "more aggressive" just hold your hand up and say "I apologized and it was sincere, you don't have to accept my apology if you aren't ready. However if you are going to continue to yell I am going to walk away". And then let her decide what to do. If she continues to vent - quietly walk away. And if she follows you ignore her and go somewhere - like a room with a door and close the door or leave the house.

- If she is being antagonistic for no good reason learn to say:

"I no longer speak to you that way, we can continue this conversation when you are calm and constructive"

- When she does something YOU don't like. Make a choice. Does it need to be dealt with "in the moment"? Often it does not. A brief "we will discuss this later" in a firm but calm tone will let her know you are unhappy. If she tries to draw you into it then just smile and say "later this isn't the time or place"

- If you are alone and she is doing/saying something you don't like try a constructive comment instead of a critical one. "The next time this happens I really would prefer you to handle it "this way" and explain what you want. If she gets aggressive - and for a while she WILL - you have a BAD pattern that will take time to break - just shake your head and walk away.

 

AND when she is out of line with you - and you walk away - do NOT be the one to try and kiss and make up the next day. Be a little reserved/detached for a day or two until you are confident you have made your point and/or she decides to apologize.

 

ALL of this is predicated on one thing though. Good, steady performance on your part. Meaning if you are constantly forgetting stuff you are supposed to do, or making the same mistake repeatedly this is never going to work. Because then her anger is frequently going to be legitimate. So make a list of what YOU do that consistently makes her angry/tense and without discussing it with her - make a major effort to step up.

 

And make a separate list of situations where she hammers you unfairly. And decide in advance what you will say - and at what point you will walk away.

 

There are many powerful and SHORT phrases that work well - but you can only use them if YOUR behavior is really good. For example:

"I would not do that to you"

"I would not speak to you like that"

"When I screw up I admit it - usually immediately if not - the next day - AND I apologize. Guess what the world doesn't end if you apologize"

 

If your W has a LOT of trouble apologizing this works well:

"Whether or not you choose to apologize is up to you. The more important thing to me is that if "this" situation happens in the future you commit to handling it "that' way.

 

For example - yelling/being disrespectful to YOU in front of the kids.

 

If you truly bring your "A" game for a month - she will start to improve. If you bring it for 3 months you will see a big difference.

 

One last thing. This is the "curse of the married man". NEVER EVER EVER apologize when she is in the wrong - because you want to "end" a fight in the hope of getting laid. NEVER. If she is being abusive and you are being calm - accept that you need to help her grasp that you are not going to apologize to her when she is being disrespectful to you. If she offers makeup sex as a form of apology I guess that is ok. But not if she keeps doing the same disrespectful thing. In general do not trade respect for sex - it never ends well.

 

If need be - if after a month she isn't following your example. Start dropping the emotional temperature in the house after she behaves badly. Stop saying ILY and doing the nice/extra things you typically do. Stop being home as much. Start detaching emotionally - go to the gym more. She will understand indifference - it is very frightening when a good partner starts to go "cold" on you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Okay, this could be rather wordy, so here goes. (Thanks in advance to anyone who takes the time to read and respond)

 

Here is my situation... Communication in my marriage is terrible. Passion is a thing of the past.

 

History: We were married at 18 years old.. right out of high school, (high school sweethearts), due in large part to us getting pregnant. We worked our way through college, etc... now both have pretty respectable, yet demanding careers. We have 3 kids.. 15, 5, and 3.

 

I could spend hours talking about examples of how our communication styles are different, but the long and short of it is this: I was raised by a counselor type parent. My mother is the greatest listener I've ever met. She isn't very opinionated, but I've never felt that she wasn't deeply interested in everything in my life. My father wasn't around, but I had a bad relationship with my stepfather. My wife was raised in a pretty dysfunctional family... father a passive alcoholic, mother a very demanding, almost overbearing army woman. My wife, like her mother have an overwhelming tendency to nag, blah, blah, blah.

 

We recently had a blow up.. we have at least one major explosion a week. Just typical stuff... no cheating, drinking, etc... just a small thing turns into something major after lots of finger pointing and so forth. We didn't talk for a while... and while lying in bed one night, I tried to tell my wife that I think our communication problems are seriously damaging our marriage. This isn't the first time I've said this. We get into a short argument.. and the conversation goes nowhere. I had tried to get her to open up and discuss ways that we could enrich communication in our marriage.. and she basically felt it wasn't a problem. I know it bothers her pretty bad, as I can see the same misery on her face that I feel inside.

 

Whenever we have a difference, and there are many, it always turns into a shouting match. Our kids usually aren't spared and I know we set a bad example. We show our children lots of love, but I feel that we set such a terrible example of how a family should function.

 

I've tried to talk to my wife in the past about many issues.. parenting, intimacy, things like that. These discussions almost always end up in the trash can. I can't think of a recent time where she would allow herself to see things my way. I can make an irrefutable comment and she shuts down. She is a big filterer who listens to a small percentage of what I say and how I say it and blocks the rest out.

 

Long and short of it.... I'm not getting any younger and can't take much more of this.

 

Some questions for posters here on the boards.

 

How often and how severe do you and your significant other argue?

 

How do you deal with things when your personalities grow apart over time after being married very young?

 

When is enough enough?

 

Do I sound like I"m asking too much to want my wife to listen (not obey).. just listen to me? Is that selfish? I really want to focus on her and give her lots of attention, but I find myself holding back from doing so, due to resentment that I feel from her and resentment that I have for our problems.

 

A penny for your thoughts....

[shane147]

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond to my post. It irritates me that I don't ever talk to anyone about these problems... I try talking to my wife, but don't feel that it ever goes anywhere except another argument.

 

Mem: I agree that I need to detach my emotions from her and that I haven't done a stellar job in this regard. It seems that we often feed off of each other and emulate the others attitude.

 

One of the big problems with the "we'll address this later" ideology is that she will try to suggest that... then completely brush it off later. For instance, we'll argue... walk away after "saying" we'll talk about it later... when we (I) try to bring up the issue later, she avoids it.

 

Sometimes, I feel that I she tries to make me feel (who knows, maybe she is right), that I have issues with closure. Example: The age old issue of sex, spontaneity, and so forth comes up every so often: She tries to end things on.... "I hear you"... and rarely ever says... ok, never says... I'll try this or that. I get angry over this, because NOTHING ever changes. This applies to sex, parenting, anything; its a typical scenario.

 

I want to pamper her.. I want to treat her like a queen, but at what point am I reasonable to expect some of the same treatment.

 

I've tried some of your suggestions, MEM. Recently, we had an argument over sex. I initiated, she essentially shewed me away so she could watch tv. I told her I WILL NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES attempt to initiate again until she had made a move. I decided that I wasn't giving any affection until she gave some first. Right or wrong, we didn't communicate at all for about a month, outside of the business aspect of a family. This almost lead to a separation. When we finally did speak, she blamed the whole thing on me, despite me telling her at great length that I was hurt by how she had turned me down. All for reality TV. I made what I now believe is a mistake when I told her that I probably didn't handle that very well. She filtered, as usual, and jumped all over that and wouldn't take any of the responsibility for the situation.

 

So all this leads me to another question for how you all handle conflict in the family. When/ how do you resolve problems? Do you just argue until you are tired? Do you argue until you have found resolution? Or do you just defer?

 

Another long winded post, but all replies are appreciated.

[Distant78]

Dude you need to go 180 on her. Stop doing a lot of things for her and don't listen or talk to her when she gets in one of her hissy fits. Stand your ground and don't put up with her crap. Make sure she's not involved with someone else either. Sounds like an affair.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Not everyone reacts like your spouse.... The OP tried one of your tactics and looks like basically he was shut down for a month. I'm sure he did something wrong and you'll explain it to him and all how to correct it.

 

Shane147, sorry for what you are going through.... Not easy and I feel for you.... My opinion is that you have to stand up, but pick your places and try and keep a level head. Mem is right, shouting gets you nowhere.

 

In addition start doing more what you want and like and being your own man. When things are not good, do let her know it, but don't push it, because that will just lead to fights.... No I don't agree with a 180, just subtle changes as most spouses don't react well to mem's mantra or completely ignoring or shutting down.

[xxoo]

Recently, we had an argument over sex. I initiated, she essentially shewed me away so she could watch tv. I told her I WILL NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES attempt to initiate again until she had made a move. I decided that I wasn't giving any affection until she gave some first. Right or wrong, we didn't communicate at all for about a month, outside of the business aspect of a family. This almost lead to a separation. When we finally did speak, she blamed the whole thing on me, despite me telling her at great length that I was hurt by how she had turned me down. All for reality TV. I made what I now believe is a mistake when I told her that I probably didn't handle that very well. She filtered, as usual, and jumped all over that and wouldn't take any of the responsibility for the situation..

 

What a huge, ugly power struggle.

 

You didn't handle it well. She didn't either. I'm guessing you both do some filtering and blame shifting.

 

I have a feeling that you are spending a lot of time fighting about surface issues (what pissed you off today ), and not the real, underlying issues that are actually causing the anger and distance. I mean, really, this month long drama was NOT about her wanting to watch a reality TV show.

 

I'm not even sure what advice to give, other that find a marriage counselor so that you can begin to learn to communicate with each other.

 

As for how we resolve conflicts--we try to focus on core concerns and not get stuck on "right/wrong", "your way/my way". For example, say we have a conflict about parenting--I am more permissive, and he is more strict. I will ask what is his concern about child doing X. I listen. I tell him my concerns about restricting X. He listens. We try to find a solution together. Maybe we will allow X with certain restrictions. Maybe disallow X but replace with Y. It isn't even arguing, most of the time---it is honestly brainstorming or problem solving, with respect for each other's point of view.

 

I think it becomes arguing when you see each other as an obstacle to getting your own way, and it becomes problem solving when you see each other as a teammate on your side. Are you rivals or teammates? Which do you want to be?

[rachel7475]

Ignore her when she's in pissy mode. Arguing or trying to talk to someone when they're in that state of mind just makes them more pissed and gives them someone to blame for their misery.

[woinlove]

Shane, I read through a few of your posts and it is clear you are really hurting. Most of what you post makes you sound like you have tried really hard to make your M work, but your W makes it seem hopeless. However, there are a couple things you've posted that suggest something a bit different:

 

Do I sound like I"m asking too much to want my wife to listen (not obey).. just listen to me? Is that selfish? I really want to focus on her and give her lots of attention, but I find myself holding back from doing so, due to resentment that I feel from her and resentment that I have for our problems.

 

 

 

I've tried some of your suggestions, MEM. Recently, we had an argument over sex. I initiated, she essentially shewed me away so she could watch tv. I told her I WILL NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES attempt to initiate again until she had made a move. I decided that I wasn't giving any affection until she gave some first. Right or wrong, we didn't communicate at all for about a month, outside of the business aspect of a family. This almost lead to a separation. When we finally did speak, she blamed the whole thing on me, despite me telling her at great length that I was hurt by how she had turned me down. All for reality TV. I made what I now believe is a mistake when I told her that I probably didn't handle that very well. She filtered, as usual, and jumped all over that and wouldn't take any of the responsibility for the situation.

 

So, some of your actions are dictated by resentment and you've gone as long as a month contributing to a terrible situation because you felt you gave her warning.

 

I've been happily married for 25 years, but I started out as a terrible communicator and I'd let hurts simmer if given the chance. What made the difference is my H was more mature and more capable of deep love than I was then. He would never let anything simmer and even when I was so obviously in the wrong, when he saw things going off the track and not getting better, he simply told me how much he loved me and he thought I must be acting out of hurt or pain and he wanted to make it better. He never let the fact that I was the one being unreasonable ever stand in the way of making things better. I learned from him and we became equal partners in making sure we quickly got over any irritations or bad behavior together.

 

My point is that sometimes just having one mature, loving person who doesn't hold onto resentment is enough to make a marriage better. You think you are doing everything you can, but even on my very worse behaviour, my H would never, ever hold back due to resentment and he would never go 2 days proving a point to me, never mind a month.

 

Having said that, 15 years is a long time to gather resentments and habits. I do think professional help is a good idea. If your W won't go, you can still go on your own. On the other hand, I have jumped on the few weaknesses you have revealed from your side, without having a lot of information to go on. Only you can decide if you could actually do better yourself.