Confident Guest Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 There is a person who I cannot avoid and who, no matter what I say, chooses to challenge me in a demeaning and derogatory way. He is able to express himself better than I can SOMETIMES and because of his way of expressing himself he can sway more people to his way of thinking and believing. He doesn't sway them because he is right (well some of them do agree with him) but simply because of the eloquence of his speech. He would make a good dirty lawyer. He belittles others too -- anyone who is of a different mindset. And claims to have facts and figures to back him up. I can find facts and figures to back up my opinions too --anyone can because we are only going to use what we find that supports us. He dismisses anyone elses findings. I know that I am responsible for my own feelings and reactions, but it sickens me to see so many people follow his lead because they are sheep and he is forceful. Some people actually think they are forming their own opinions when its obvious to myself and others that they are only following his lead. Anyone else have someone like this that they have to deal with? How do you deal with it? I have to put up with him in the workplace. Thank God he is not my boss as he already has a superiority complex. He is not smarter than anyone else, but he thinks he is and has convinced others that he is and they go to him for answers to base their decisions on and what they get are his opinions. Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 You have described my MAJOR PET PEEVE in people!!!!! Makes you just want to walk up and slap 'em....doesn't it????? HAHA! Link to post Share on other sites
Girlie Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Oi. I had a bf like that. Horrible, horrible. Unfortunately, there's not a lot you can do about these people except ignore them. In their mind, at least typically, they'll always know everything regardless. Link to post Share on other sites
hotgirl100 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by Confident Guest There is a person who I cannot avoid and who, no matter what I say, chooses to challenge me in a demeaning and derogatory way. He is able to express himself better than I can SOMETIMES and because of his way of expressing himself he can sway more people to his way of thinking and believing. He doesn't sway them because he is right (well some of them do agree with him) but simply because of the eloquence of his speech. He would make a good dirty lawyer. He belittles others too -- anyone who is of a different mindset. And claims to have facts and figures to back him up. I can find facts and figures to back up my opinions too --anyone can because we are only going to use what we find that supports us. He dismisses anyone elses findings. I know that I am responsible for my own feelings and reactions, but it sickens me to see so many people follow his lead because they are sheep and he is forceful. Some people actually think they are forming their own opinions when its obvious to myself and others that they are only following his lead. Anyone else have someone like this that they have to deal with? How do you deal with it? I have to put up with him in the workplace. Thank God he is not my boss as he already has a superiority complex. He is not smarter than anyone else, but he thinks he is and has convinced others that he is and they go to him for answers to base their decisions on and what they get are his opinions. I think you sould still keep him as a boyfriend or just give him to me tell him my name is xxxxx love ya lol Link to post Share on other sites
zarathustra Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 How do you deal with a charismatic know-it-all? Well, you've come to the right place. LS has its fair share. Rather than challenge the substance of his statements, attack the style. For example, if you disagree with him and he attacks you, accuse him of bullying, arrogance, condenscenion and spiteful intolerance for any views but his own. Emphasize that he doesn't want a legitimate discussion or spirited argument. All he wants is that only his opinions be heard and the unimportant opinions of others, especially women, don't matter. He's a pseudo-intellectual bully who's afraid of real conversation. Tell him you're tired of his know-it-all monologues. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I know that I am responsible for my own feelings and reactions, but it sickens me to see so many people follow his lead because they are sheep and he is forceful. Some people actually think they are forming their own opinions when its obvious to myself and others that they are only following his lead. Or maybe he does make some good points. Why does it sicken you? What harm does it do to you? If they're not being persuaded to be bigots or prejudiced or into some other sort of harmful behaviour or belief, why is it troublesome to you other than that they must be taking the opposite side in these discussions? You were right, there. You are responsible for your anger over this, and I suspect there's more underneath that anger than your concern for the others. Once you get at what really bugs you, you can then decide to not let it bug you. And you'll be a lot happier! Link to post Share on other sites
Fedup&givingup Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 This guy sounds like a classic one upmanship doer...EWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!! I agree fully with Zara. Calling him on his ways/methods is the best thing. Letting in on the fact of what he does and announcing will hopefully embarass him a little bit into his place. I hate to say this, and I've always hated it when people have told me this in regard to someone, but if worse comes to worse, try your best to avoid him ("just ignore him"...blah, blah, blah). Seriously, point out that his ways and make it clear and evident that he's an ass. That might ring his bell enough, who knows. If it doesn't get him to stop, it will at least put it out there for everyone else to see. Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 just point out his logical errors. even if he still sounds better, you'll know you have the right on your side - thankfully, there is a clearly established tradition that demonstrates who has good points and who just makes noise. give us a case study! (this stuff is so fun) give us an example of an argument the two of you have and i'll unpack the fallacies on either side for you. the most important part of any debate is to stay calm and react rationally to any points made. you're right, most people don't really examine evidence, but there are calm, polite, ways you can point out the problems with his argument. (*not* the problems with him: attacking the person instead of the argument is a fallacy i commit often, i'm afraid, and it's one of the worst ones) Link to post Share on other sites
zarathustra Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 but there are calm, polite, ways you can point out the problems with his argument. (*not* the problems with him: attacking the person instead of the argument is a fallacy As fallacies go, it can be extremely fun if done well! So gratifying, even if it's a cheap high. Link to post Share on other sites
faux Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Have you considered that you are perhaps envious of this man's abilities to some extent? Perhaps you are the one engaging him in an attempt to struggle for superiority? If not, simply ask him to show you the proof he claims to have for his points. Also, analyze the situation. Sometimes you may be tempted to get into debates over things which are really not so very important. It may in fact be a good idea to just ignore him in that respect, and simply watch and not participate. Link to post Share on other sites
ladyangel Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme I know that I am responsible for my own feelings and reactions, but it sickens me to see so many people follow his lead because they are sheep and he is forceful. Some people actually think they are forming their own opinions when its obvious to myself and others that they are only following his lead. Or maybe he does make some good points. Why does it sicken you? What harm does it do to you? If they're not being persuaded to be bigots or prejudiced or into some other sort of harmful behaviour or belief, why is it troublesome to you other than that they must be taking the opposite side in these discussions? You were right, there. You are responsible for your anger over this, and I suspect there's more underneath that anger than your concern for the others. Once you get at what really bugs you, you can then decide to not let it bug you. And you'll be a lot happier! Originally posted by Confident Guest There is a person who I cannot avoid and who, no matter what I say, chooses to challenge me in a demeaning and derogatory way... He belittles others too -- anyone who is of a different mindset... He dismisses anyone elses findings... Anyone else have someone like this that they have to deal with? Actually, I do know someone like this and it's no fun to try to deal with them. To me, the excerpts I have taken from your original post pretty much sum up why this person bugs you, and I think it makes perfect sense. It is bordering on -- if not out and out -- verbal abuse when someone belittles you or challenges you in a demeaning and derogatory way. Nobody should have to take that. As far as the question of "what harm does it do to you," I would think that should be quite obvious. It tends to damage a person's self-esteem. Here are some interesting quotes from Verbal Abuse Survivors Speak Out On Relationship and Recovery, Patricia Evans, Bob Adams Inc, 1993 -- Great site: http://www.pinn.net/~sunshine/book-sum/v_abuse.html "Each time he gets her to "back down," that is, comply and give up trying to reason with him, he believes he has won." "The abuser is often so good at control that he can turn his intimidating displays on and off in order to continue to "look good" to the outside world." "By countering his partner, the verbal abuser is saying, I can think for both of us. What you think is wrong. What I think is right. If I can get you to doubt yourself, I can control you more easily." "By discounting his partner's perceptions, the verbal abuser is saying, I can decree the worthlessness of your perceptions and actions. I am not accountable. I can stay in control." "By denying all of his abusive behavior, the abuser is saying, I can keep everything exactly as it is, with you under my control, and I will not be held accountable." Even though your sitation is not a marriage/partnership situation, I think the same ideas apply. We're talking about a personality type here. Some might call him a bully. It sounds like this description fits your situation. What you must do is realize that the abuse/bullying has nothing to do with you. It is THIS person's problem and his responsibility. You can't change him. You can only change the way you respond to him. Unfortunately, there are always going to be people out there who experience every situation, conversation, or interaction as having a winner and a loser and they will go to any length not to be the "loser." It's my view that the best way to deal with such people is to state your opinion and walk away. Usually what happens is that others will eventually see what a fool that person is making of himself and tire of him. Don't let him get to you. It's the best form of revenge. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Fantastic post ladyangel! Thank you for the link. I have to say I agree with most of the folks. I can think of a couple of LS posters (one left the board in a huff!) that fit the descriptions too! You said its workplace and that is sometimes difficult to deal with because not only can that be harmful to your own self-confidence, but if he has a lot of "followers" he may get raises or promotions ahead of you when he didn't earn them, and/or undermine some of your work and put you in a less than favorable light to your employer. Ignoring him is probably best and if you need to vent - vent to someone outside the company so that it doesn't backfire and make you look bad. Stay calm. Focus on the content of the conversation - not the person. If you are like me sometimes, I'll think of what I should have said an hour later! What I have found that works for me is to say "I need to think about that - let me get back to you" and then go cool off and think about your response. Hopefully you are not in a position that requires fast decisions all the time! Link to post Share on other sites
zarathustra Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Fantastic post ladyangel! Thank you for the link. I have to say I agree with most of the folks. I can think of a couple of LS posters (one left the board in a huff!) that fit the descriptions too! I agree. What a great post, ladyangel. Now, I wonder who left the board in a huff? Someone I know? Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 we should start a charismatic cult! but one that allows me to keep my hair. huffing off would be a required skill, which would really disrupt robert's rules of order, but what the he11. Link to post Share on other sites
zarathustra Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 we should start a charismatic cult! I thought you, Dave and lost were already in one. As for "huffing out," I'm the best "huffer outer" on LS. Just give me a reason, woman. Link to post Share on other sites
HokeyReligions Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by zarathustra I agree. What a great post, ladyangel. Now, I wonder who left the board in a huff? Someone I know? Long time ago -- before you came to the board. They came back under a different name - but easily recognizable. Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 bwhhahha! i could totally out-huff you! i'm inflating as we type! alright, buddy, you and me. mexican standoff, tarantino style. ... dammit. my indignation deflated when something shiny went by. now i have to skulk out instead. Link to post Share on other sites
zarathustra Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 How dare you speak to me that way. I'm leaving! Harumph! (Only to return in 24 hours with a new transparent identity.) Link to post Share on other sites
ladyangel Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I might be kicked off, but I won't huff off! I will NOT be intimidated by another. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Long time ago -- before you came to the board. They came back under a different name - but easily recognizable. Take another look, Hoke. Only to return in 24 hours with a new transparent identity. Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 i can't remember the last time i had an irony sandwhich this heavy with ham. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 And you call yourself a pseudo-Jew? Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 bwhhaaaaaaha! that was awesome! i actually just spit up some diet coke! (i think regurgitation might lose me some charisma points, though. ) Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Namaste, chameleon. I don't see why you bother with the artifice of reinventing yourself - as you yourself say, you're transparent. Put up the old avatar, assume the position, and blather on as you will. It is awful, awful old. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 kosher irony Remember, next time, it's 'brisket'. In the meantime, I'll see your knishe and raise you a latke LOL. Link to post Share on other sites
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