CaterpillarGirl Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by moimeme Two theories of interest: 1 - Hell consists in suffering the pain that one has caused others throughout one's lifetime 2 - Hell means to be separated from God. Think of how painful it is to lose one's beloved. The theory is that one will long for the presence of God similarly (obviously with even more intensity) and therefore being deprived of the presence of God will cause terrible suffering Moimeme summed up my belief in #2. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetbilly Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 For end of my rope, I did quote some sources better read the thread again, except they only address physical proof i.e how the earth formed, what's at the bottom of the red sea, the disparagment concerning the worlds population #'s, and this is only the tip of the iceberg. For hokey relgions, you only read the book did you ever get the microscope out? I did. People who don't know all the facts are easily swayed by people with alterior (political) motives. All the textbooks in america, and abroad, are goverened by the worst possible entity the U.N nothing read in a school is approved by this government. That's what I meant when I said I can't help it if your iQ is low. it simply means, I'm not as gullible to believe half truths derived by fools who write lies in books. The Bible is a litteral translation of what really happened in all history, and every word must be true. If anyone else ever came along and proved something else happened, to explain the evidence, this would prove the whole idea of a diety to be false. And this is the consenous in the only true faith christanity. When God said he formed the earth in six days he meant six days, this is what the plutonium halos prove (based on geologic evidence there is no other explnation). when he said he killed the egyptians in the Red sea he meant exactally that. And if you'll look at the evidence, I've provided, http://www.pinkoski.com that's where the chariots are, at the bottom of the Red sea. What i'm saying is, the evidence is empirical and will never be disproved by anyone anywhere anytime. And to not believe the evidence makes anyone a fool. And by the way athiest, agnostic what's the difference disbelieving is disbelieving it has nothing to do with how good you are in this life( saved people know they're saved). It's about who you are with. being good and being a believer, well, they're reciprical it's impossible to be one without the other. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Oh goody! Conspiracy theories plus a prophet who knows the real truth! Could we be luckier? Link to post Share on other sites
sweetbilly Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 prove anything I said wrong. Until then, you're the one with the burden. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Author Share Posted March 23, 2004 yowza. what sect/demonination or belief system are you from, sweetbilly? just out of curiousity. Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I always find it so interesting in how it is so socially acceptable to put Christianity down....but if someone says something even slightly negative about any other form of religion....THEN people get all upset and huffy. For example: IF I would've made the statement that being in Hell was being stuck with a bunch of Jews for eternity. OH MY GOD! THAT would not be acceptable. I happen to have a Jewish mother and I CAN say that.....LOL! I'm not making any judgements or statements. I just happened to notice this thru several threads in the past few months and feel that people who consider Christianity their religion, deserve as much respect and acceptance as those who don't. Link to post Share on other sites
moimeme Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 yowza. what sect/demonination or belief system are you from, sweetbilly? just out of curiousity. Let me guess: The Church of Sweetbilly it is so socially acceptable to put Christianity down Barbie, it's not 'Christianity' that's getting dissed. It's the 'you better believe exactly as I do or you'll go straight to Hell and I'll tell you how for the next three days; you and those hateful homos' type of fundamentalists that are getting dissed. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetbilly Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 It's not just jews, say anything about gays, muslems, budists, and you're a biggot. We're not allowed to voice our opinions in government, newspapers, CHAT ROOMS, televisions or anywhere else either. When we do say something we're called extremests, and chastized. Yet, no one can actually stand up under the real scientific scrutany, all they do is mock you, and i'm tired of it. So, does that prove me right, are they intellectually inferior? If someone, with half a brain, would like to prove the evidence I've provided wrong. Give it your best shot! there's no going back now, and I won't shy away. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Author Share Posted March 23, 2004 actually because of this forum, i have learned *a lot* about how reasonable and cool christians can be. my real life experiences have not been as good, and the best way for me to combat any generalization is by showing a multitude of examples that disprove it. i think the jews can easily match the christians persecution for persecution, but i agree no one is socially permitted to speak against the jews any longer without looking insane and hateful. i would also agree that christianity takes a beating, at least up here, and paricularly within universities, partly because of its dominance. this is not an excuse, however, and i agree that it is not fair, and not right. for my part, there is no way i would see sweetbilly as articulating anything but his own theories, which are becoming more wild and interesting by the minute. i must say i'm surprised that the UN turned out to be evil. Link to post Share on other sites
Arabess Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 So the Jews aren't taking the Palestinians and the Hindu's aren't taking the Buddist and the Christians aren't taking the gays. Every form of religion has it's share of rejection towards those who don't believe the same way they do. It comes with the territory. Jenny asked if people believed in a 'hell' and someone gave their Christian viewpoint and got ridiculed. That's what Christianity believes. They are quoting from THEIR Bible and sharing THEIR thoughts. No one else has to accept it if they don't want to. I think it's mean to attack someone regardless of what their convictions are. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetbilly Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Hey jenny, if you don't understand then you need to find someone that will really teach you, instead of bashing me. the U.N. is a major part of the bible, and nothing that was ever said was good about it. Do you really think christains don't know about 9-11 read issiah chapters 20-26 then log on to http://www.september11news.com and see the insane pics there. There were many prophetical statements made about the european nations uniting, under one government, one currancy, and fighting against Israel and the U.S. in the last war. And I'll make a prediction right now. Israel, will in the near future, give back the west bank and the gaza strip for peace and then things will really get out of hand. when this happens kiss your a$$ goodbye cause that's when the war between America and Russia take place. Sorry, for being so sensitive and rude about it but this means alot to me. Link to post Share on other sites
Samson Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Naturally, I'll go with Moimeme's THEORY #1 Hell consists in suffering the pain that one has caused others throughout one's lifetime With a twist: Hell consists in suffering the pain one has had throughout one's lifetime. Frankly, Jen, I'll be relieved to enter the next level of existance: Wormbait. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Author Share Posted March 23, 2004 lol - ok. i realize the purpose of the thread is now defunct. but i'm fascinated by sweetbilly's ideas, and would like to understand them. now, sweetbilly, correct me where i err, ok? let's review: 1. hell is a factual, physical, place. it has fire, pain, *and* lots of burning. 2. you have special information that could scare people to death. 3. god created science so we could prove his existence with it 4. all the textbooks are wrong. 5. the UN is evil. 6. the bible is completely literally true and the rock formations and the remains of a chariot prove this conclusively. 7. one will go to hell if one is not an explicit believer in your particular system. 8. you believe the burden is on others to disprove the authenticity of your evidence. 9. you believe the web site you provided to be credible, rigourous, and scholarly. 10. anyone who does not believe the way you do is stupid, foolish, and damned. i could not find the part on that site where they show the physical evidence of hell. could you kindly provide it? i liked all the pictures a lot, though. it was also helpful to understand that only your sect of christianity seems to be the correct one. Ron Wyatt was a Seventh-day Adventist. The only reason that God let Ron Wyatt find the Ark of the Covenant is that Ron Wyatt believed in keeping all **10** of the Ten Commandments -- and that includes the 4th Commandment! so, does this mean everyone not in your particular sect will be going to your version of hell for breaking the fourth commandment? Link to post Share on other sites
sonofhud2 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by Arabess I always find it so interesting in how it is so socially acceptable to put Christianity down....but if someone says something even slightly negative about any other form of religion....THEN people get all upset and huffy. For example: IF I would've made the statement that being in Hell was being stuck with a bunch of Jews for eternity. OH MY GOD! THAT would not be acceptable. I happen to have a Jewish mother and I CAN say that.....LOL! I'm not making any judgements or statements. I just happened to notice this thru several threads in the past few months and feel that people who consider Christianity their religion, deserve as much respect and acceptance as those who don't. Thank you. I'm taken aback by that statement as well. Hell is spending eternity with born again Christians. What's worse is some of you people supported his statements. This is not productive to this discussion and should be removed from this thread. I have no respect for people who make/support insolent, hateful posts such as that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Author Share Posted March 23, 2004 so, presumably, this was a problem as well: sweetbilly: And besides eternity in hell is actually like spending the day with an athiest. Link to post Share on other sites
sonofhud2 Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 I had not read that far into this thread yet; however, yes that is the same kind of thing. I dunno, I guess you people don't give a crap about religious persecution on this board. That's fine. If someone were to call someone some racist name I bet we would see some people coming out to the defense then. I'm done in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jenny Posted March 23, 2004 Author Share Posted March 23, 2004 I dunno, I guess you people don't give a crap about religious persecution on this board. what leads you to that conclusion? i think people do, in fact, care a lot. i certainly do. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetbilly Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Like i said, i'm sorry for being rude. But that statement is essentally true. There are no believers in hell, only athiests. And yes, I do believe certain people, who follow God's commands, are blessed. You must understand, the reason we fell out of grace is because we sinned. I prommise anyone, and if you don't believe put me to the challenge, if anyone believes so much that they are convicted to act, what happened to me will also happen to them then you will know. But you have to make the first move. My particular sect, as you call it, is the only right one because it is the only one to prove its particular beliefs to be true "with physical evidence". No other religion, and I mean no other religion, can do the same, not athiests, budists, hindus, muslems, However, the jewish faith is built upon the same ideals. The confusion came at the introduction of the new test. And this is the challenge we've put out to the world that the world doesn't want you to hear. Link to post Share on other sites
CaterpillarGirl Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 sweetbilly, since you do believe in the biblical version of hell (i.e. fire and brimstone stuff), maybe you could help me interpret a passage I've thought is pretty intriguing -- "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. " (Matthew 10:28) If both your soul and your body are destroyed, are you dead twice? How is that a punishment? Where do you go? Not really sure about that one. As I said, I'm Christian, and I believe that the greatest punishment would be separation from God, since She is all-good, and all good things come from Him. To be without God's love is a pretty scary concept for me, even if I could convince myself that what I interpret as God's love is really a self-delusion. Have any of you other Christians (and interested parties) ever read C.S. Lewis' "The Great Divorce," a book that addresses the question of Hell, and why he believes some people choose this separation from God over a heavenly resting spot? ------------------------------------------ "The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of his life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. " (James 3:6) "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. " (Luke 6:37) "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. " (Matthew 7:2) Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 If you use science to "prove" religion, you have no faith--you're seeking to avoid faith with science. If you see that as a strength, fantastic. I'm still waiting for your proof of hell, more for entertainment value than theological value. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetbilly Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 like I said, hell is a physical place. To make sense of that particular passage read revalations where God said he threw the antichrist into the pit. He did this without privilageing him with death. To elaborate on this more, God created man to be both physical and spiritual and to eliminate even one person would go against his will, so hell was created as a prision where the absence of God is eternal. Like I said earlier dyermaker, I can't make you see what you won't see. for me, the proof of God's existence did not come as scientific evidence, it came in another form. It was after that I searched for physical proof. And God never said in any way, shape, fashion, or form that searching for physical proof of his existence was bad. In fact, he requires people to look for him. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Revelations was likely written by John, not God. It's a vision rich in symbolism. It's also prophetical, not historical, so even if these things were to happen literally, you still can't prove that hell exists NOW. If you see your english translation of the Holy Bible as a scientific or historical textbook, that fascinates me. But it has no place in a debate with people who aren't part of your church, hellbound as they may be. If you're ready to prove emperically the phsyical location, preferably with color photographic or at least audio (I've always wondered what gnashing teeth sounds like in great numbers) footage of it's geography. And no tourist brochures either, they focus on the pretty parts and leave out what it's like in autumn. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetbilly Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 you're right, it is rich in simbolism. And yes, it was written by the hand of john, with the devine inspration of God. Proving the existence of hell only requires proof that God is not a liar. If one person proves that what Christians believe is not true then I'll concied and say God does not exist. But if we prove that the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of creationism, then by the odds alone I've proven the existence of God. Therefore, because God is incapable of lying, hell is, by association alone, proven to exist. Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Originally posted by sweetbilly Proving the existence of hell only requires proof that God is not a liar. Well no, there's a difference between you misunderstanding scripture and God lying. You're correct, God doesn't lie. But are you really so conceited to be certain that Revelations has NO metaphorical intention in it's delivery of the message for sinners to repent? I'm curious as to how you read literature, if you don't analyze symbols and metaphors. Was Of Mice and Men was just a lame story about farmhands? With that point made, are you really certain God chose to inspire his prophets to write like a science textbook, rather than like the millions of other authors who have graced our planet? If one person proves that what Christians believe is not true then I'll concied and say God does not exist. Buckle down and get ready, because religion is absolute, while science is rapidly moving. Eventually, it will catch up, and those who are incapable of reconciling science with religion will be left with a lot of unanswered questions. But if we prove that the evidence is overwhelmingly in favor of creationism, then by the odds alone I've proven the existence of God. If your only evidence of Creationism is the Genesis story, a partial retelling of TWO CONFLICTING Hebrew oral traditions, you lack the evidence for my definition of "proving" Link to post Share on other sites
Darkangelism Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 I think sweetbilly has interesting views, i also think that the playing field is more even with dyer and sweetbilly because they are both religious. oh and i personally agree with jenny. Link to post Share on other sites
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