Middle aged men and young women.

[Rubys]

There needs to be more resources for young girls to help them understand men- and the lengths they will go to sleep with them. I know not all men are predatory, but many men are. Unless a young woman has an older mentor (mother or otherwise) or friend to help her understand men and dating, her role as a female etc, she learns by trial and error. Some find the journey easier than others.

 

I never had a close mother-daughter relationship to teach me about boys, manipulation, and the birds and the bees. I did, luckily,have tremendous self respect and natural street smarts. Other ladies are not so lucky.

 

I think I have encountered it all when it comes to men chasing after me.Now that I'm in my thirties, I just want to teach all young women about how to watch out for the older man who will inevitably prey on them.

 

I totally agree with the poster who said this stuff should be mandatory to teach "gender dating ed" in university.

[Spark1111]

Absolutely agree. With all of my talking, training, educating my daughters, they still wound up, as I did when younger, in some seriously precarious situations.

 

A woman alone is always vulnerable. A young woman alone? Extremely vulnerable to predatory men.

[Duckduckgoose]

A woman alone is always vulnerable. A young woman alone? Extremely vulnerable to predatory men.

 

Which is why I learned how to use a gun when I was 21, and now have two pistols

[lilbunny]

Nothing like an age gap debate to get me back into the swing of things.

In my own work situation there was no power relationship (I was 27 at the time, he was 45).

 

While I'm sure that plenty of this sleazy boss routine goes on, I can't say that was the case in my situation and if anything I ended up being the adult.

 

It is worth noting that these are grown women in the world of work and from the descriptions so far we seem to be talking about educated graduates in professional environments, as opposed to 16 year old school leavers. I can't help but feel that to some degree you can only be 'groomed' in this situation, if you allow it to go on.

[OWoman]

I would agree more with this:

 

I can't help but feel that to some degree you can only be 'groomed' in this situation, if you allow it to go on.

 

than with this:

 

A woman alone is always vulnerable. A young woman alone? Extremely vulnerable to predatory men.

 

Perhaps if a woman has been brought up to view herself as vulnerable, and to look to others for protection, it may be true - but certainly not IME. I have never considered myself "vulnerable" - I have happily chased armed wannabe robbers down the street at night dressed only in a Tshirt and I have fought off muggers when outnumbered three-to-one because within myself I feel strong enough to take on whatever comes at me.

[in_absentia]

No the 45 63 year old thing does not bother me at all. By 45 you know better than to fall prey to someone. It's the young 20 something with the 45 year old that makes me crazy. I just want to give the girl a hug and smack him.

 

Oh come on! I bet most 20 year old women have a far better head on their shoulders than you're imagining, 20something women aren't necessarily vulnerable, or naive, they may just prefer to date an older man for many different reasons, not least the fact that a guy in his forties will tend to be more settled, mature, confident, a better lover, and know what he wants out of life compared to a guy in his early twenties.

 

I'd be wary of a long term relationship with someone in their forties because of future issues such as kids etc. (I'm 22) but for just casual dating I think I'd rather go with that than someone my own age. Not to mention the fact that men tend to look better and better as they age up until a certain point. One of the best relationships I've ever had was with a 41 year old professor I met during my degree (he never taught me, and we didn't start anything until I'd graduated and he'd moved to a different university through promotion), we were friends before and remain firm friends and there was never any sense of inequality mentally, or a feeling that I was being taken advantage of, he saw me as his complete equal and not just a naive little girl who didn't know what she was doing.

 

I wonder if this sense of 'oh, I feel sooo sorry for these girls!' stems from an insecurity, a feeling of inadequacy in comparison to the younger girls who are dating the successful 40 year old men, so it's easier to portray then as victims who need protection and sisterly/motherly solidarity and then men as sleazebags than it is to feel that she's a threat. I don't think you have any reason to feel jealous or insecure, but it does seem a little ridiculous to view 20 year old females as poor little mites being groomed against their wills. A 20 year old is an adult who is more than capable of making their own choices and saying no to things they don't want.

[woinlove]

Oh come on! I bet most 20 year old women have a far better head on their shoulders than you're imagining, 20something women aren't necessarily vulnerable, or naive, they may just prefer to date an older man for many different reasons, not least the fact that a guy in his forties will tend to be more settled, mature, confident, a better lover, and know what he wants out of life compared to a guy in his early twenties.

 

I'd be wary of a long term relationship with someone in their forties because of future issues such as kids etc. (I'm 22) but for just casual dating I think I'd rather go with that than someone my own age. Not to mention the fact that men tend to look better and better as they age up until a certain point. One of the best relationships I've ever had was with a 41 year old professor I met during my degree (he never taught me, and we didn't start anything until I'd graduated and he'd moved to a different university through promotion), we were friends before and remain firm friends and there was never any sense of inequality mentally, or a feeling that I was being taken advantage of, he saw me as his complete equal and not just a naive little girl who didn't know what she was doing.

 

I wonder if this sense of 'oh, I feel sooo sorry for these girls!' stems from an insecurity, a feeling of inadequacy in comparison to the younger girls who are dating the successful 40 year old men, so it's easier to portray then as victims who need protection and sisterly/motherly solidarity and then men as sleazebags than it is to feel that she's a threat. I don't think you have any reason to feel jealous or insecure, but it does seem a little ridiculous to view 20 year old females as poor little mites being groomed against their wills. A 20 year old is an adult who is more than capable of making their own choices and saying no to things they don't want.

 

I think it varies from case to case. I got together with a MM about 20 years my senior when I was not quite 20 and it was a few years before I realized that he was just one of these men who would always like to be with a very young (compared to him) woman. I left him and a few years later he ended up with another 19 year old.

 

Notice GG was giving her opinion on the topic being discussed and was not accusing other posters (or those who hold different views) of any negative traits. Likewise for the first part of your post. The bolded part of your post is quite different. I don't think it gives any insight into GG or anyone who posted on this thread prior to you.

[OpenBook]

Everyone has to decide for themselves what's important to them, what makes them happy. Who are you to judge?

 

I couldn't have said it better myself!

 

Why do you want to force your will onto others, make them do as you want them to?

 

The $64 million question. So glad these folks aren't in charge of me!!

 

I wonder if this sense of 'oh, I feel sooo sorry for these girls!' stems from an insecurity, a feeling of inadequacy in comparison to the younger girls who are dating the successful 40 year old men, so it's easier to portray then as victims who need protection and sisterly/motherly solidarity and then men as sleazebags than it is to feel that she's a threat.

 

I wonder the same thing. It sure would explain a lot.

 

Which is why I learned how to use a gun when I was 21, and now have two pistols

 

I rest my case. :laugh:

[sammyd]

I personally think that at 20 years old, we all thought we 'knew it all', and were totally mature. It's not until you reach your 30's that you look back and realise how wrong we were! Yes, we are classified as adults at that age, yes, we make our decisions and choices, but it doesn't mean that we weren't influenced/manipulated by a much older person.

I'm not saying big age differences can't work, because occasionally they do, but there's a big difference mentally and physically between say a 20yr old woman and a 50 yr old guy.

Older women (25+) and big age differences, yep, they are old enough to know what they want, are mentally and physically mature, etc. But it does seem much older men, with young women seem to be trying to recapture their youth.

Each to their own though, i guess . . .

[greengoddess]

I wonder if this sense of 'oh, I feel sooo sorry for these girls!' stems from an insecurity, a feeling of inadequacy in comparison to the younger girls who are dating the successful 40 year old men, so it's easier to portray then as victims who need protection and sisterly/motherly solidarity and then men as sleazebags than it is to feel that she's a threat. I don't think you have any reason to feel jealous or insecure, but it does seem a little ridiculous to view 20 year old females as poor little mites being groomed against their wills. A 20 year old is an adult who is more than capable of making their own choices and saying no to things they don't want.

 

 

:laugh: Ah good one. So I am insecure and inadequate because I feel bad for 20 somethings who get roped in and strung on for years by MARRIED OLDER MEN. Um yes that's one way of looking at it. A 40 year old has years more experience dealing with relationships than a mere 20 year old. Again I stand with I want to hug the 20 year old and smacjk the 40something he strings this poor darling around for years wasting her life while he remains married.

[OWoman]

I wonder if this sense of 'oh, I feel sooo sorry for these girls!' stems from an insecurity, a feeling of inadequacy in comparison to the younger girls who are dating the successful 40 year old men, so it's easier to portray then as victims who need protection and sisterly/motherly solidarity and then men as sleazebags than it is to feel that she's a threat. I don't think you have any reason to feel jealous or insecure, but it does seem a little ridiculous to view 20 year old females as poor little mites being groomed against their wills. A 20 year old is an adult who is more than capable of making their own choices and saying no to things they don't want.

 

I've spent a lot of time with young women of this age group (friends of my kids) and they're certainly a lot more sussed than they're being given credit for on this thread.

 

I guess some people just have more sheltered upbringings than others.

[greengoddess]

I've spent a lot of time with young women of this age group (friends of my kids) and they're certainly a lot more sussed than they're being given credit for on this thread.

 

I guess some people just have more sheltered upbringings than others.

 

I know. Isn't it wonderful that some young women don't have to grow up too quickly and learn the harsh realities of the world? Now if only men would not take advantage of young ladies like this.

[fooled once]

GG, here is something else that I believe has a lot of merit: How Daddy treats you is how you will expect all men to treat you.

 

So if he is kind and respectful and admiring, that becomes a daughter's expectation of treatment from all men as she grows up. She gets a good-picker and discards those men who try to treat her as less than.

 

If daddy is absent, distant, difficult, demanding or demeaning, well, then guess what?

 

That is how you expect all men to treat you.

 

I can see this being true. I do believe how we are brought up, those relationships, do play a part in how we see future relationships when we are grown.

 

There needs to be more resources for young girls to help them understand men- and the lengths they will go to sleep with them. I know not all men are predatory, but many men are. Unless a young woman has an older mentor (mother or otherwise) or friend to help her understand men and dating, her role as a female etc, she learns by trial and error. Some find the journey easier than others.

 

I never had a close mother-daughter relationship to teach me about boys, manipulation, and the birds and the bees. I did, luckily,have tremendous self respect and natural street smarts. Other ladies are not so lucky.

 

I think I have encountered it all when it comes to men chasing after me.Now that I'm in my thirties, I just want to teach all young women about how to watch out for the older man who will inevitably prey on them.

 

I totally agree with the poster who said this stuff should be mandatory to teach "gender dating ed" in university.

 

Good post Rubys

 

A 20 year old is an adult who is more than capable of making their own choices and saying no to things they don't want.

 

I disagree. Many of today's "adult" kids have been pampered, sheltered, spoiled and have no sense of responsibility or boundaries.

 

Look around at the youth of today - the worst "ME ME ME" generation in forever. These are the pampered kids - the ones who HAVE to have every piece of electronics made, who can't go 10 minutes without their cell phone, who are selfish and full of themselves. They are far from mature and far from knowing "right from wrong". I have a daughter who is almost 20 and 2 nieces I am incredibly close to who are in their early 20's so I can say this from PERSONAL experience.

 

Additionally, I was once a 20 year old who thought I knew everything and so naive that I got married at 22 years old.

 

So I highly disagree that 20 year olds are so incredibly smart and mature and know what they want and don't want. Most people (male and female) are totally different at 30 than at 20. I firmly believe we do most of our growing/maturing in our 20's.

 

And yes, I believe many young women are prey to older men. I know I was. I had the biggest crush on the guy who owed the store next to the store I worked at when I was in my late teen's/early 20's. He was easily in his mid-40's. He knew I was in lust with him and used that to his advantage!

 

I personally think that at 20 years old, we all thought we 'knew it all', and were totally mature. It's not until you reach your 30's that you look back and realise how wrong we were! Yes, we are classified as adults at that age, yes, we make our decisions and choices, but it doesn't mean that we weren't influenced/manipulated by a much older person.

 

I'm not saying big age differences can't work, because occasionally they do, but there's a big difference mentally and physically between say a 20yr old woman and a 50 yr old guy. Older women (25+) and big age differences, yep, they are old enough to know what they want, are mentally and physically mature, etc. But it does seem much older men, with young women seem to be trying to recapture their youth.

Each to their own though, i guess . . .

 

Good post Sammy!

[BeachBetty]

These females are adults and can make their own decisions. Who is anyone to decide what's best or right for someone else or whether or not someone is capable of making good decisions?

 

I think to characterize young females as prey is rather disempowering. Why do we take power away from females? Age is nothing more than a number. And there are plenty of strong, independent young women making their way in the world.

 

How is someone going around warning young women about "older" men any less manipulating?

[fooled once]

These females are adults and can make their own decisions. Who is anyone to decide what's best or right for someone else or whether or not someone is capable of making good decisions?

 

I think to characterize young females as prey is rather disempowering. Why do we take power away from females? Age is nothing more than a number. And there are plenty of strong, independent young women making their way in the world.

 

How is someone going around warning young women about "older" men any less manipulating?

 

That's your view and I have mine

 

I see way too many young females being used by older men. I see way too many young females thinking what matters is their size and their looks. Too many young women equate love with sex.

 

No one is taking anything away from anyone - it is called EDUCATION women and teaching them THEY are worth more than what they think. It is about raising their self esteem and teaching them they are valuable - not just arm candy and a quick f*ck to some old guy. Look at how many young women become pregnant "accidently". Once again, men telling women that condoms restricting how good the sex feel as opposed to wrapping it up - and boom, unwanted pregnancy. And last I read, there is still a huge problem with date rape and sexual harassment in the world today. But many young women are so wrapped up in 'guys' and being 'in love', they accept much less than they should. Look at the pictures these young women post on facebook of themselves - scantily clad and in provocative positions. WHY is that? To catch the eye of a guy. Women are too wrapped up with wanting attention and needing to have a boyfriend by their side. They are losing their independence because too many think that they are nothing without someone in their lives.

 

What's wrong with teaching them that they don't have to settle and that they are wonderful people even if they don't have a boyfriend?

[GrahamM]

I have litterally just joined this forum and came across this thread and feel compelled to reply.

 

I have been on my own now for nearly 4 years after a failed marriage. I am in my early 60's and I am presently in a long distance relationship with a lady some 22 years younger than myself.

 

This relationship was not planned nor expected, but just happened.

 

I have questioned the morals of the age difference on many occasion and given the lady in question many opportunities to change her mind.

 

We now plan to marry in April of this year god willing.

 

The point is, there are many relationships which are genuine of this nature and you cannot possibly tar everyone with the same brush although I can understand where the op is coming from to some extent, but not all 20 something are naieve.

 

just my 2 cents worth.

 

graham

[woinlove]

I thought this analysis of age preferences on OKCupid was interesting:

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/old_guys_dig_young_women_other_creepy_facts_from_o.php#disqus_thread

 

Not that some middle age men are interested in 20 year olds, but the discrepancy between the lowest age men say they are interested in compared to their actual interests. This suggests that these 45 year old men may feel they shouldn't be interested in 20 year olds, or maybe that it will make them less attractive to women to admit their actual age interests.

Edited February 7, 2011 by woinlove

[BeachBetty]

That's your view and I have mine

 

I see way too many young females being used by older men. I see way too many young females thinking what matters is their size and their looks. Too many young women equate love with sex.

 

No one is taking anything away from anyone - it is called EDUCATION women and teaching them THEY are worth more than what they think. It is about raising their self esteem and teaching them they are valuable - not just arm candy and a quick f*ck to some old guy. Look at how many young women become pregnant "accidently". Once again, men telling women that condoms restricting how good the sex feel as opposed to wrapping it up - and boom, unwanted pregnancy. And last I read, there is still a huge problem with date rape and sexual harassment in the world today. But many young women are so wrapped up in 'guys' and being 'in love', they accept much less than they should. Look at the pictures these young women post on facebook of themselves - scantily clad and in provocative positions. WHY is that? To catch the eye of a guy. Women are too wrapped up with wanting attention and needing to have a boyfriend by their side. They are losing their independence because too many think that they are nothing without someone in their lives.

 

What's wrong with teaching them that they don't have to settle and that they are wonderful people even if they don't have a boyfriend?

 

Maybe these younger women are actually USING the older men?

 

Who said anything about not teaching them to settle?

 

But what's settling anyway? In whose eyes?

 

Why couldn't a twenty-something learn from a mentor and then use it to her advantage? Why isn't that a possibility? Why have to listen to someone with considerable baggage and a jaded view of relationships?

 

Isn't that part of being young? Creating your own jaded view?

[BeachBetty]

I have litterally just joined this forum and came across this thread and feel compelled to reply.

 

I have been on my own now for nearly 4 years after a failed marriage. I am in my early 60's and I am presently in a long distance relationship with a lady some 22 years younger than myself.

 

This relationship was not planned nor expected, but just happened.

 

I have questioned the morals of the age difference on many occasion and given the lady in question many opportunities to change her mind.

 

We now plan to marry in April of this year god willing.

 

The point is, there are many relationships which are genuine of this nature and you cannot possibly tar everyone with the same brush although I can understand where the op is coming from to some extent, but not all 20 something are naieve.

 

just my 2 cents worth.

 

graham

 

Congratulations! The thing about life is to seize those moments and never let them go...

[PeachyPink]

Maybe these younger women are actually USING the older men?

I would never condone teaching a young woman to use someone else. I can think of much better things to condone for a young woman, such as self respect, respect for others, and self reliance.

[greengoddess]

Maybe these younger women are actually USING the older men?

 

Who said anything about not teaching them to settle?

 

But what's settling anyway? In whose eyes?

 

Why couldn't a twenty-something learn from a mentor and then use it to her advantage? Why isn't that a possibility? Why have to listen to someone with considerable baggage and a jaded view of relationships?

 

Isn't that part of being young? Creating your own jaded view?

 

You really consider a man having an affair on his wife a mentor to a twentysomething? Sounds like a pretty bad example of a mentor to me. "Here honey, let me teach you how easy it is to forget your marriage vows and your wife and children at home and lie and sneak around. Look how deceptive I can be? I can teach you to lie deceptively." Sorry that's not any type of mentor I'd want my daughter to have.

 

Graham I don't think anyone condemned your situation. Your fiance is old enough and experienced enough to know what she is doing. We are not speaking of large age gaps as much as middles aged men preying on young inexperienced women.

[OWoman]

I would never condone teaching a young woman to use someone else. I can think of much better things to condone for a young woman, such as self respect, respect for others, and self reliance.

 

Not every young woman needs to be TAUGHT how to use someone else... It seems many have taken that lesson in with their mother's milk.

[donnamaybe]

I would never condone teaching a young woman to use someone else. I can think of much better things to condone for a young woman, such as self respect, respect for others, and self reliance.

You mean teach her qualities like integrity? Well, what will they come up with next?!

[in_absentia]

:laugh: Ah good one. So I am insecure and inadequate because I feel bad for 20 somethings who get roped in and strung on for years by MARRIED OLDER MEN. Um yes that's one way of looking at it. A 40 year old has years more experience dealing with relationships than a mere 20 year old. Again I stand with I want to hug the 20 year old and smacjk the 40something he strings this poor darling around for years wasting her life while he remains married.

 

I apologise if you took my reply in this way (I can understand why!) I can be pretty blunt, I certainly wasn't trying to imply that YOU are insecure or have feelings of inadequacy, I was just pondering on whether that kind of motherly protection towards younger females did stem from those kinds of feelings, rather than trying to accuse you of that but I agree with the other poster who said it is somewhat disempowering to want to 'protect' young women in that way, they can make up their own minds and suss out a guy's intentions for themselves.

[OWoman]

You mean teach her qualities like integrity? Well, what will they come up with next?!

 

If she has to be taught integrity, she has a problem.