Life Turned Upside Down.

[InternationalPlayboy]

I was a regular here for a couple months last year and probably offered advice that will appear hypocritical after reading this post. What else is new? Here's why I've been away:

 

My wife is changing career fields and was taken under the wing of a man who's established in the industry to show her the ropes.

 

I never questioned their relationship until after Thanksgiving. He's married and lives out of state but they've met at business conferences three times in the last three months, mostly on his dime. The first conference, didn't phase me. I love and trust my wife and want to give her sufficient space to follow her dreams.

 

The second conference aroused the slightest twinge of suspicion on my part but I let it go. That's the trust she's earned over 13 years of marriage.

 

She attended another conference in early December. A couple days before she was to leave, her mentor called and she put him on speaker while they discussed some business. The conversation ended oddly - he clearly didn't know he was on speaker or I was in the room. He said he "loves working" with my wife and that she is "the sweetest client he's ever had."

 

"Sounds like he really, really likes you, huh?" I asked my wife after she hung up.

 

"Oh it's nothing. He's a blowhard," she said. I let it go as nothing. Again, I trust her.

 

She left for the conference a couple days later. After she left, I put away some laundry and noticed her vibrator was not in her sock drawer - the usual hiding place. And some of her fanciest clothes were gone. And that she'd gotten her hair done and a spa treatment just the day before. My mind raced toward what seemed an obvious conclusion.

 

Our kids spent most of the weekend at a friend's house so I spent Friday night drinking and in doubt. My wife called late that night and we kept it brief - she summed up her day and I told her nothing real of mine.

 

Saturday was worse - I was sober and the reality set in. I stewed in my own worst thoughts all day until that night I did something I never wanted to do, something I promised myself I'd never do: I raided her e-mail and chat logs.

 

There wasn't a smoking gun, but it wasn't pleasant. Most of their discussions were about business, but they also spoke candidly about their lives. My name was discussed in unsavory terms. Even though he's married he clearly wants me gone and at times she seemed to agree. She told him I didn't understand her business dreams like he did. They chatted about how much they inspired one another and how they would love to work together someday. He told her I need to watch out - that some guy just might come and sweep her away.

 

I was livid and beaten. It was late - after midnight. I texted her: "I miss you." She replied "I miss you, too. I love you." I texted back: "Whatever" and turned off the phone.

 

I couldn't sleep and returned to her e-mail maybe five more times that night before she called at 8 a.m. the next morning.

 

"Did you sleep with him?"

 

"Sleep with who? No."

 

"Did you sleep with him? You know who I'm talking about."

 

"No I don't. I didn't sleep with anyone."

 

"Did you sleep with (her mentor)," I asked.

 

"No. Oh my gosh, no."

 

"Why not? You should have. He's what you want. I'm holding you back." She had to go and we agreed to talk when she arrived home that night. We talked and she mostly convinced me that she had not slept with him, I admitted to reading her chats. I assured her that he wants to **** her. She denied it over and over and I insisted that without any doubt his desire to **** her is the only clear fact in this story. She still denied having any feelings - sexual or otherwise - and while I accepted it, I still doubt it.

 

And here's why: I suffered an unbearable crush on a neighbor during the past three years (well documented in my previous LS posts). She's tall, beautiful, smart and we have a lot in common. We've e-mailed but never flirted. We're Facebook friends, but never tell each other how we inspire each other. We never discussed a future together in business or otherwise. We've never had a conversation, chat or e-mail that I'd be afraid to show my wife. I never did these things because I value her marriage and mine and know that's a line you don't cross. We're no longer neighbors, we've both moved and the distance allowed my crush to cool. That is the extent of my crush, but I never expressed it to her or even hinted at it. And it shocks and hurts that my wife - who I always assumed was smarter, less impulsive and simply a better person than me could make such a mistake.

 

Which brings me to today. We're in counseling and things have improved some since. We still have a lot of work to do. I still check her emails and chats (without her knowledge, I believe) and contact with her mentor has cooled since the December confrontation. They still chat, email and phone, but it appears mostly business or friendly discussion.

 

As first mentioned, this was my wife's business mentor and he got us into some investments over the past year. Since the blow up, I've taken over these investments and worked to extricate us from anything he touched. The last one should be finished this week and then, hopefully, he will be out of our lives for good.

 

Which brings me to my dilemma: Should I contact his wife and let her know? I assume he's kept her in the dark - although my wife confided in him after the confrontation so he knows that I know blah blah blah.

 

I've written an e-mail, I've saved chats and e-mails. I have everything ready to go. But wonder what good will come of it.

 

Your thoughts?

 

P.S. My apologies over any bunk advice I previously offered. I was an ass.

[UnsureinSeattle]

Been in these exact shoes. I know how much it hurts to find out that she's been slagging you off to the other man. It still hurts me to think about it.

 

Do I think you should tip off the wife? Boy, I wanted to.

 

Long story sort of briefly:

 

My SO and I work at the same place and she started hanging out with this guy who used to work here... and started spending breaks and lunch times and free time in general in his office. Told all her friends what a great guy he was, and how she'd love to sleep with him (But no worries- it was "just a crush"). Complained about how jealous and mean I was. How unhappy she was. Never to my face, of course. Meanwhile, she became more and more emotionally (and physically) distant.

 

One occasion, where I had finally realized that things weren't what they seemed, and I was particularly curt to the man in front of her, she was ESTATIC because she could have perfect fodder to complain about me to him the next day. I looked for (and found) the emails, the chats, etc. It opened up a world to me that I had no idea about.

 

At the same time, the guy knew what was going on and was clearly encouraging it. Meanwhile, he was coming up to me and trying to be my pal (as if to show there was nothing wrong with what he was doing).

 

I finally said something to him along the lines of "How would you like it if I went to your wife's work and spent every free moment and lunch hour with her?" He turned pale and scuttled off- and I broke up with my SO.

 

We did get back together, but I'll never forget how selfish she was- how bad it made me feel- and I'll never forget that, altho' I tried to be the good guy and not be the controlling jerk who interfered in his SO's friendships, that she was weak and couldn't set an appropriate boundary.

 

If I had lowered the boom on him and informed his wife... I dunno. There would've been grim satisfaction in it, sure. But altho' boundaries were crossed, they didn't sleep together. I couldn't bring myself to disrupt his poor wife's life, I guess. I didn't feel like anything good would come of it.

 

The guy was downsized and eventually moved many states away. He and my SO are definitely not in contact, and haven't been in a couple of years. We're still working at our relationship, with degrees of success.

 

I kind of felt like I was the bigger person for not dragging someone else into it. Try to spend that nervous, unsure, bitter energy another way, if you can. I know it's hard.

 

Hang in there, my friend. Try to concentrate on the good times with your wife, and the good times to come.

Edited January 31, 2011 by UnsureinSeattle

[whichwayisup]

Don't unless something happens. Keep an eye on this.

 

Your wife seemed to enjoyed the ego feed and attention this guy brought to her, but really didn't want 'it' to happen. More fantasy like and the feel of knowing someone else wants you other than your spouse, she got caught up in it.

 

Time will tell..

 

Glad MC is happening!

[Distant78]

I was a regular here for a couple months last year and probably offered advice that will appear hypocritical after reading this post. What else is new? Here's why I've been away:

 

My wife is changing career fields and was taken under the wing of a man who's established in the industry to show her the ropes.

 

I never questioned their relationship until after Thanksgiving. He's married and lives out of state but they've met at business conferences three times in the last three months, mostly on his dime. The first conference, didn't phase me. I love and trust my wife and want to give her sufficient space to follow her dreams.

 

The second conference aroused the slightest twinge of suspicion on my part but I let it go. That's the trust she's earned over 13 years of marriage.

 

She attended another conference in early December. A couple days before she was to leave, her mentor called and she put him on speaker while they discussed some business. The conversation ended oddly - he clearly didn't know he was on speaker or I was in the room. He said he "loves working" with my wife and that she is "the sweetest client he's ever had."

 

"Sounds like he really, really likes you, huh?" I asked my wife after she hung up.

 

"Oh it's nothing. He's a blowhard," she said. I let it go as nothing. Again, I trust her.

 

She left for the conference a couple days later. After she left, I put away some laundry and noticed her vibrator was not in her sock drawer - the usual hiding place. And some of her fanciest clothes were gone. And that she'd gotten her hair done and a spa treatment just the day before. My mind raced toward what seemed an obvious conclusion.

 

Our kids spent most of the weekend at a friend's house so I spent Friday night drinking and in doubt. My wife called late that night and we kept it brief - she summed up her day and I told her nothing real of mine.

 

Saturday was worse - I was sober and the reality set in. I stewed in my own worst thoughts all day until that night I did something I never wanted to do, something I promised myself I'd never do: I raided her e-mail and chat logs.

 

There wasn't a smoking gun, but it wasn't pleasant. Most of their discussions were about business, but they also spoke candidly about their lives. My name was discussed in unsavory terms. Even though he's married he clearly wants me gone and at times she seemed to agree. She told him I didn't understand her business dreams like he did. They chatted about how much they inspired one another and how they would love to work together someday. He told her I need to watch out - that some guy just might come and sweep her away.

 

I was livid and beaten. It was late - after midnight. I texted her: "I miss you." She replied "I miss you, too. I love you." I texted back: "Whatever" and turned off the phone.

 

I couldn't sleep and returned to her e-mail maybe five more times that night before she called at 8 a.m. the next morning.

 

"Did you sleep with him?"

 

"Sleep with who? No."

 

"Did you sleep with him? You know who I'm talking about."

 

"No I don't. I didn't sleep with anyone."

 

"Did you sleep with (her mentor)," I asked.

 

"No. Oh my gosh, no."

 

"Why not? You should have. He's what you want. I'm holding you back." She had to go and we agreed to talk when she arrived home that night. We talked and she mostly convinced me that she had not slept with him, I admitted to reading her chats. I assured her that he wants to **** her. She denied it over and over and I insisted that without any doubt his desire to **** her is the only clear fact in this story. She still denied having any feelings - sexual or otherwise - and while I accepted it, I still doubt it.

 

And here's why: I suffered an unbearable crush on a neighbor during the past three years (well documented in my previous LS posts). She's tall, beautiful, smart and we have a lot in common. We've e-mailed but never flirted. We're Facebook friends, but never tell each other how we inspire each other. We never discussed a future together in business or otherwise. We've never had a conversation, chat or e-mail that I'd be afraid to show my wife. I never did these things because I value her marriage and mine and know that's a line you don't cross. We're no longer neighbors, we've both moved and the distance allowed my crush to cool. That is the extent of my crush, but I never expressed it to her or even hinted at it. And it shocks and hurts that my wife - who I always assumed was smarter, less impulsive and simply a better person than me could make such a mistake.

 

Which brings me to today. We're in counseling and things have improved some since. We still have a lot of work to do. I still check her emails and chats (without her knowledge, I believe) and contact with her mentor has cooled since the December confrontation. They still chat, email and phone, but it appears mostly business or friendly discussion.

 

As first mentioned, this was my wife's business mentor and he got us into some investments over the past year. Since the blow up, I've taken over these investments and worked to extricate us from anything he touched. The last one should be finished this week and then, hopefully, he will be out of our lives for good.

 

Which brings me to my dilemma: Should I contact his wife and let her know? I assume he's kept her in the dark - although my wife confided in him after the confrontation so he knows that I know blah blah blah.

 

I've written an e-mail, I've saved chats and e-mails. I have everything ready to go. But wonder what good will come of it.

 

Your thoughts?

 

P.S. My apologies over any bunk advice I previously offered. I was an ass.

 

I remember you. You're the guy that was thinking about cheating. Well either way man, I'm sorry for what you're going through. I honestly think she's lying about whether she ****ed him or not, given that she trashed you while talking to OM. So far she cheated on you emotionally and she did nothing to stop it. Too many red flags. What she needs to be doing right now is showing you she'll never act that way again, if you guys plan on staying together. And keep one eye open when you sleep.

[TigerCub]

 

She left for the conference a couple days later. After she left, I put away some laundry and noticed her vibrator was not in her sock drawer - the usual hiding place.

If she was going to get laid, why would she take her vibrator?

 

And some of her fanciest clothes were gone. And that she'd gotten her hair done and a spa treatment just the day before. My mind raced toward what seemed an obvious conclusion.

She's going to a conference, what's wrong with wanting to look professional and look her best.

As for the spa treatment, maybe the timing was a coincidence, but even if she wanted to look good on her businessy trip, that's doesn't mean that she did it to impress this guy.

 

 

 

There wasn't a smoking gun, but it wasn't pleasant. Most of their discussions were about business, but they also spoke candidly about their lives. My name was discussed in unsavory terms.

That's really crappy and I'm sorry that's the case, it must have hurt a LOT to see that she's even discussing you with this "stranger" and that its not in a good way - that still doesn't automatically mean that she's sleeping with him. Maybe she's naive in the sense that she thought of him as a friend, when he's actually possibly interested in her in a different way.

 

Even though he's married he clearly wants me gone and at times she seemed to agree.

I'll admit that she shouldn't be discussing your personal M details with this guy, but do you know the reasons she agreed with him at times? I would imagine those are some issues that would need to be discussed in the counselling you're attending now.

 

She told him I didn't understand her business dreams like he did.

Are they not in the same field? I could see how someone in the same field as me at work would understand a little more about certain aspirations and directions I would want to take, a little better than my bf - that doesn't mean that my bf is an uncaring *********.

 

They chatted about how much they inspired one another and how they would love to work together someday. He told her I need to watch out - that some guy just might come and sweep her away.

I am in no way debating with you about this guy's intentions, I just have a feeling that maybe your W saw a friend in him whereas she should have seen a guy that's interested in other things.

 

I was livid and beaten. It was late - after midnight. I texted her: "I miss you." She replied "I miss you, too. I love you." I texted back: "Whatever" and turned off the phone.

I'm sorry .,.. I understand that you were upset,. but I see this kind of behavior as extremely passive aggressive and quite childish.

 

 

 

Which brings me to my dilemma: Should I contact his wife and let her know? I assume he's kept her in the dark - although my wife confided in him after the confrontation so he knows that I know blah blah blah.

 

I've written an e-mail, I've saved chats and e-mails. I have everything ready to go. But wonder what good will come of it.

I honestly don't think that you should, because I don't think your wife did anything with this guy.

Is this guy likely to cheat on his wife - yeah that's a good possibility, but did he cheat with YOUR wife, I don't think he did (he probably would have loved to), but I dunno I really don't think he did.

So I just don't think you should tell the W, because when she asks you for proof of you allegations, what are you going to give her?

If you don't have anything sold, you're just putting doubt in this poor woman's head and causing her stress and upset for no reason.

 

I am really sorry that you saw the emails where your W didn't say great things about you to this guy - I'm with you on the fact that that must really hurt and be upsetting...From what you said though, I really have a feeling that your W saw a friend in him, whereas he saw her as a sexual interest. I don't think anything happened.

 

I wish you the best of luck in sorting through all this

[mem11363]

Why was your W slagging you? Were her comments valid? Or were they generic bs with no basis in fact?

 

BTW - she didn't get angry about the email/chat stuff because she was guilty.

 

The last time you posted it seemed like she was "steadily" deprioritizing you. Not taking care of herself, not dressing nicely. Continuing to blow off sex. Unless that gets fixed she will eventually meet someone and bail. Deprioritizing a partner generally means you feel you deserve better.

 

Often the victim of being deprioritized, reinforces the problem by "chasing" the partner who is treating them badly instead of standing up for themself.

 

 

 

 

I was a regular here for a couple months last year and probably offered advice that will appear hypocritical after reading this post. What else is new? Here's why I've been away:

 

My wife is changing career fields and was taken under the wing of a man who's established in the industry to show her the ropes.

 

I never questioned their relationship until after Thanksgiving. He's married and lives out of state but they've met at business conferences three times in the last three months, mostly on his dime. The first conference, didn't phase me. I love and trust my wife and want to give her sufficient space to follow her dreams.

 

The second conference aroused the slightest twinge of suspicion on my part but I let it go. That's the trust she's earned over 13 years of marriage.

 

She attended another conference in early December. A couple days before she was to leave, her mentor called and she put him on speaker while they discussed some business. The conversation ended oddly - he clearly didn't know he was on speaker or I was in the room. He said he "loves working" with my wife and that she is "the sweetest client he's ever had."

 

"Sounds like he really, really likes you, huh?" I asked my wife after she hung up.

 

"Oh it's nothing. He's a blowhard," she said. I let it go as nothing. Again, I trust her.

 

She left for the conference a couple days later. After she left, I put away some laundry and noticed her vibrator was not in her sock drawer - the usual hiding place. And some of her fanciest clothes were gone. And that she'd gotten her hair done and a spa treatment just the day before. My mind raced toward what seemed an obvious conclusion.

 

Our kids spent most of the weekend at a friend's house so I spent Friday night drinking and in doubt. My wife called late that night and we kept it brief - she summed up her day and I told her nothing real of mine.

 

Saturday was worse - I was sober and the reality set in. I stewed in my own worst thoughts all day until that night I did something I never wanted to do, something I promised myself I'd never do: I raided her e-mail and chat logs.

 

There wasn't a smoking gun, but it wasn't pleasant. Most of their discussions were about business, but they also spoke candidly about their lives. My name was discussed in unsavory terms. Even though he's married he clearly wants me gone and at times she seemed to agree. She told him I didn't understand her business dreams like he did. They chatted about how much they inspired one another and how they would love to work together someday. He told her I need to watch out - that some guy just might come and sweep her away.

 

I was livid and beaten. It was late - after midnight. I texted her: "I miss you." She replied "I miss you, too. I love you." I texted back: "Whatever" and turned off the phone.

 

I couldn't sleep and returned to her e-mail maybe five more times that night before she called at 8 a.m. the next morning.

 

"Did you sleep with him?"

 

"Sleep with who? No."

 

"Did you sleep with him? You know who I'm talking about."

 

"No I don't. I didn't sleep with anyone."

 

"Did you sleep with (her mentor)," I asked.

 

"No. Oh my gosh, no."

 

"Why not? You should have. He's what you want. I'm holding you back." She had to go and we agreed to talk when she arrived home that night. We talked and she mostly convinced me that she had not slept with him, I admitted to reading her chats. I assured her that he wants to **** her. She denied it over and over and I insisted that without any doubt his desire to **** her is the only clear fact in this story. She still denied having any feelings - sexual or otherwise - and while I accepted it, I still doubt it.

 

And here's why: I suffered an unbearable crush on a neighbor during the past three years (well documented in my previous LS posts). She's tall, beautiful, smart and we have a lot in common. We've e-mailed but never flirted. We're Facebook friends, but never tell each other how we inspire each other. We never discussed a future together in business or otherwise. We've never had a conversation, chat or e-mail that I'd be afraid to show my wife. I never did these things because I value her marriage and mine and know that's a line you don't cross. We're no longer neighbors, we've both moved and the distance allowed my crush to cool. That is the extent of my crush, but I never expressed it to her or even hinted at it. And it shocks and hurts that my wife - who I always assumed was smarter, less impulsive and simply a better person than me could make such a mistake.

 

Which brings me to today. We're in counseling and things have improved some since. We still have a lot of work to do. I still check her emails and chats (without her knowledge, I believe) and contact with her mentor has cooled since the December confrontation. They still chat, email and phone, but it appears mostly business or friendly discussion.

 

As first mentioned, this was my wife's business mentor and he got us into some investments over the past year. Since the blow up, I've taken over these investments and worked to extricate us from anything he touched. The last one should be finished this week and then, hopefully, he will be out of our lives for good.

 

Which brings me to my dilemma: Should I contact his wife and let her know? I assume he's kept her in the dark - although my wife confided in him after the confrontation so he knows that I know blah blah blah.

 

I've written an e-mail, I've saved chats and e-mails. I have everything ready to go. But wonder what good will come of it.

 

Your thoughts?

 

P.S. My apologies over any bunk advice I previously offered. I was an ass.

[InternationalPlayboy]

Been in these exact shoes. I know how much it hurts to find out that she's been slagging you off to the other man. It still hurts me to think about it.

 

Do I think you should tip off the wife? Boy, I wanted to.

 

Long story sort of briefly:

 

My SO and I work at the same place and she started hanging out with this guy who used to work here... and started spending breaks and lunch times and free time in general in his office. Told all her friends what a great guy he was, and how she'd love to sleep with him (But no worries- it was "just a crush"). Complained about how jealous and mean I was. How unhappy she was. Never to my face, of course. Meanwhile, she became more and more emotionally (and physically) distant.

 

One occasion, where I had finally realized that things weren't what they seemed, and I was particularly curt to the man in front of her, she was ESTATIC because she could have perfect fodder to complain about me to him the next day. I looked for (and found) the emails, the chats, etc. It opened up a world to me that I had no idea about.

 

At the same time, the guy knew what was going on and was clearly encouraging it. Meanwhile, he was coming up to me and trying to be my pal (as if to show there was nothing wrong with what he was doing).

 

I finally said something to him along the lines of "How would you like it if I went to your wife's work and spent every free moment and lunch hour with her?" He turned pale and scuttled off- and I broke up with my SO.

 

We did get back together, but I'll never forget how selfish she was- how bad it made me feel- and I'll never forget that, altho' I tried to be the good guy and not be the controlling jerk who interfered in his SO's friendships, that she was weak and couldn't set an appropriate boundary.

 

If I had lowered the boom on him and informed his wife... I dunno. There would've been grim satisfaction in it, sure. But altho' boundaries were crossed, they didn't sleep together. I couldn't bring myself to disrupt his poor wife's life, I guess. I didn't feel like anything good would come of it.

 

The guy was downsized and eventually moved many states away. He and my SO are definitely not in contact, and haven't been in a couple of years. We're still working at our relationship, with degrees of success.

 

I kind of felt like I was the bigger person for not dragging someone else into it. Try to spend that nervous, unsure, bitter energy another way, if you can. I know it's hard.

 

Hang in there, my friend. Try to concentrate on the good times with your wife, and the good times to come.

 

Thanks for your advice - that's what I've told myself several times already - why put someone else through this pain?

 

What she said about me in the e-mails didn't hurt that much. Okay it hurt - big time - but I can deal with her, I still love her. What's upsetting is that she wasn't complaining to a girlfriend but to another man. It's one thing if she discussed our problems with her girlfriends - that's to be expected to some degree. But with another guy? That sends the wrong signals and tells any guy you're open for business. I've explained that to her, but she insists she was naive or didn't realize what she was doing or was upset....Whatevs.

 

But what pisses me off about him is that he encouraged it - whenever my name came up he was always like "You're still with him" blah blah blah. That's just something you don't do unless you're looking for some ass.

 

I suppose I won't bring his wife into it. But still, there's something inside me that says his actions cannot go without retribution, without some clear message that says in big giant letters "**** You." Perhaps time will soothe that urge.

 

Honestly, this whole experience makes me feel guilty for ever having a crush on my neighbor - and I didn't even do anything....

 

Thanks again.

[InternationalPlayboy]

Don't unless something happens. Keep an eye on this.

 

Your wife seemed to enjoyed the ego feed and attention this guy brought to her, but really didn't want 'it' to happen. More fantasy like and the feel of knowing someone else wants you other than your spouse, she got caught up in it.

 

Time will tell..

 

Glad MC is happening!

 

Yes. I suppose I will follow your (and others) advice. She's used several different stories - midlife crisis, anger at me, boredom, depression, it changes. But still it sucks. It's not like I'm unfamiliar with those issues and the yearnings they can cause.

 

I guess now that our business relationship is wrapping up, I feel the urge to take one good swipe at him...Because I've shown unbearable restraint so far. I know it's better to take the high road, I figurative kick to the groin would feel sooooooo damn good right about now.

 

Thanks for your help!

[InternationalPlayboy]

I remember you. You're the guy that was thinking about cheating. Well either way man, I'm sorry for what you're going through. I honestly think she's lying about whether she ****ed him or not, given that she trashed you while talking to OM. So far she cheated on you emotionally and she did nothing to stop it. Too many red flags. What she needs to be doing right now is showing you she'll never act that way again, if you guys plan on staying together. And keep one eye open when you sleep.

 

It's inaccurate to say I was thinking about cheating. Tempted? Sure, but actually committing to any real plan, it wasn't in the cards. I had a crush on our neighbor, but she'd never have gone for it (she's too smart) and I never would have made the first move (I'm chicken****) so that is where that ended, thankfully.

 

As for OM in this case. We still need to fix this mess and thank God for MC. We're discussing things openly, without any ambiguity that we hadn't in 10 years. But last time I brought up OM, that I hated his guts and will never trust him, she got upset and said "I didn't sleep with him. What more do you want me to say?" Discussing it in detail is still touchy.

[whichwayisup]

Yes. I suppose I will follow your (and others) advice. She's used several different stories - midlife crisis, anger at me, boredom, depression, it changes. But still it sucks. It's not like I'm unfamiliar with those issues and the yearnings they can cause.

 

I guess now that our business relationship is wrapping up, I feel the urge to take one good swipe at him...Because I've shown unbearable restraint so far. I know it's better to take the high road, I figurative kick to the groin would feel sooooooo damn good right about now.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

You're welcome.

 

Oh I think if you need to let loose (verbally) on him, do so. Just don't punch him, even though HE deserves it, he knows full well that she's married and he's played her like a fiddle, whispering sweet nothings in her ear. She ate it up too.

 

 

And what you said about her confiding in another woman as to confiding in a woman friend, there IS a difference. Two gals talking is venting and trust, no hidden motives, no romantic or intimate feelings/bonds happen (on that sexual emotional level) like it does between a man and a woman. She knows this too, though she's in denial! She ain't stupid!!

 

If she is suffering from depression, MLC, then she needs to seek counseling on her own to sort that out and not turn to another man to make herself feel better.

[InternationalPlayboy]

If she was going to get laid, why would she take her vibrator?

 

She likes to use it during foreplay. But really the question is why would she take a vibrator to a business conference?

 

She's going to a conference, what's wrong with wanting to look professional and look her best.

As for the spa treatment, maybe the timing was a coincidence, but even if she wanted to look good on her businessy trip, that's doesn't mean that she did it to impress this guy.

 

She'd gone to two other conferences in November and October (with this guy) and brought her usual business attire. This time she brought some new, sexier clothing that she hadn't worn before. Some heels, some boots. Things she never wears when I'm around.

 

That's really crappy and I'm sorry that's the case, it must have hurt a LOT to see that she's even discussing you with this "stranger" and that its not in a good way - that still doesn't automatically mean that she's sleeping with him. Maybe she's naive in the sense that she thought of him as a friend, when he's actually possibly interested in her in a different way.

 

I'll admit that she shouldn't be discussing your personal M details with this guy, but do you know the reasons she agreed with him at times? I would imagine those are some issues that would need to be discussed in the counselling you're attending now.

 

Are they not in the same field? I could see how someone in the same field as me at work would understand a little more about certain aspirations and directions I would want to take, a little better than my bf - that doesn't mean that my bf is an uncaring *********.

 

I am in no way debating with you about this guy's intentions, I just have a feeling that maybe your W saw a friend in him whereas she should have seen a guy that's interested in other things.

 

That's been her primary defense - that she was naive and didn't know he might interpret things differently. I would accept the naivety defense if she wasn't 40 years old and hadn't been around the block a few times. We're adults. I know she knows better, she knows she knows better, he knows she knows better. There are just some things you don't discuss with someone of the opposite sex unless you want to send off signals. We are discussing many of her complaints from the e-mails in MC. And I'm adding a few of my own. It's really very liberating. I recommend it to anyone, though not under these circumstances.

 

I'm sorry .,.. I understand that you were upset,. but I see this kind of behavior as extremely passive aggressive and quite childish.

 

The text was not my best moment. It was roughly the time that I'd completely lost it. Luckily, she thought nothing of the text and said she didn't know I was upset until the next morning.

 

I honestly don't think that you should, because I don't think your wife did anything with this guy.

Is this guy likely to cheat on his wife - yeah that's a good possibility, but did he cheat with YOUR wife, I don't think he did (he probably would have loved to), but I dunno I really don't think he did.

So I just don't think you should tell the W, because when she asks you for proof of you allegations, what are you going to give her?

If you don't have anything sold, you're just putting doubt in this poor woman's head and causing her stress and upset for no reason.

 

I suppose I will not tell the wife. Mainly because I wouldn't wish the last two months on anyone, well almost anyone. It's been misery every day with only occasional hours of mediocrity. But the urge for revenge is mighty, mighty tough to get past. As for actual "proof" of anything - the e-mails and chats - they're pretty damning. Not a smoking gun, but with strong circumstantial evidence, possibly enough for a conviction. And I have nearly 90 percent certainty they had phone sex. Jeez, who has phone sex anymore? That's so 1994.

 

I am really sorry that you saw the emails where your W didn't say great things about you to this guy - I'm with you on the fact that that must really hurt and be upsetting...From what you said though, I really have a feeling that your W saw a friend in him, whereas he saw her as a sexual interest. I don't think anything happened.

 

I wish you the best of luck in sorting through all this

 

Thanks for all your time. She insists she only viewed him as a friend, but I just have a hard time believing it. She has other male friends that she e-mails and chats with. I went through those emails just to see if I was overreacting. I stopped because they were so vanilla and boring. This guy was something different whether she can face up to that or not.

 

Thank you very much for your input.

[InternationalPlayboy]

Why was your W slagging you? Were her comments valid? Or were they generic bs with no basis in fact?

 

BTW - she didn't get angry about the email/chat stuff because she was guilty.

 

The last time you posted it seemed like she was "steadily" deprioritizing you. Not taking care of herself, not dressing nicely. Continuing to blow off sex. Unless that gets fixed she will eventually meet someone and bail. Deprioritizing a partner generally means you feel you deserve better.

 

Often the victim of being deprioritized, reinforces the problem by "chasing" the partner who is treating them badly instead of standing up for themself.

 

Well, she was slagging me because we've had our ups and downs. I'm aware of that and I've complained about her to some of my friends - but it's who complained to that is the dilemma. The comments were valid, mostly.

 

She didn't get upset about me going through the emails or chats. She wasn't happy about it, but she definitely didn't get upset like I gone over the line or anything.

 

Last I wrote, I probably implied she'd deprioritized me as you say. I probably did some to her. We're hoping MC will help fix that.

 

Thanks for your help!

[InternationalPlayboy]

You're welcome.

 

Oh I think if you need to let loose (verbally) on him, do so. Just don't punch him, even though HE deserves it, he knows full well that she's married and he's played her like a fiddle, whispering sweet nothings in her ear. She ate it up too.

 

 

And what you said about her confiding in another woman as to confiding in a woman friend, there IS a difference. Two gals talking is venting and trust, no hidden motives, no romantic or intimate feelings/bonds happen (on that sexual emotional level) like it does between a man and a woman. She knows this too, though she's in denial! She ain't stupid!!

 

If she is suffering from depression, MLC, then she needs to seek counseling on her own to sort that out and not turn to another man to make herself feel better.

 

Yeah, perhaps a little telling off would feel good and let him know to stay away. We'll see.

 

There's another one of these business conferences at the end of February. Previously, she would have gone by herself and met him there. I insisted we go together this time. Not sure if he will be there or not.

[whichwayisup]

If possible, go with her on the February trip. Or she doesn't go at all.. Besides it might be fun for the two of you to be alone in the hotel room!

 

Jeez, who has phone sex anymore? That's so 1994.

 

I like this!! Great line!

[UnsureinSeattle]

explained that to her, but she insists she was naive or didn't realize what she was doing or was upset....Whatevs.

 

But what pisses me off about him is that he encouraged it - whenever my name came up he was always like "You're still with him" blah blah blah. That's just something you don't do unless you're looking for some ass.

 

 

 

Heard that all before. Word for word. As perverse as it seems, since coming here, I've taken a small amount of comfort knowing that SO MANY others have gone thru the EXACT SAME THING that we have. These wandering spouses almost follow a script, you know?

 

Stay strong.

[InternationalPlayboy]

Heard that all before. Word for word. As perverse as it seems, since coming here, I've taken a small amount of comfort knowing that SO MANY others have gone thru the EXACT SAME THING that we have. These wandering spouses almost follow a script, you know?

 

Stay strong.

 

Thanks, man. So sorry to hear you've gone through much of the same. I've needed to unload some of this on uninvolved observes for awhile. Discussing it in MC helps, sure. I don't even feel comfortable discussing this with my friends because (a). I don't want them to know intimate details about my marriage (b). I don't want them choosing sides or viewing her differently in the future especially if we move past this.

 

There's one friend, a good friend from college, I've thought about discussing this with him. His wife cheated. He strayed during a separation and to no surprise they are divorced. But even that...I don't want to burden him or anyone else with this crap. But part of me just wonders if I'm overreacting. We'll see.

 

Thanks again!

[She's_NotInLove_w/Me]

IP, in my opinion, what your wife and you are going through is fairly common... what the two of you choose to do now is the key. Talk, talk, talk, all you can without being obviously obsessed about it.

 

She honestly may not have realized exactly what she was doing, but there was likely something inside of her saying that it's wrong at some point (phone sex for example).

 

She wants to feel wanted, desireable, attractive. You can still give that to her in so many ways. You'll first need to move past the resentment and pain - the sack of bull**** she's been handing you. And you can likely only do that through true heartfelt communication.

 

I know it won't be easy, but you have to prioritize what your goal is first, and then take positive, genuine steps to get there.

 

This is a great place to share your thoughts and just type them out sometimes.

 

Best of luck to you in your marriage.

[whichwayisup]

You now need to put on the charm and take your wife out on a date. Get dressed up, get sexy and have fun. Make her forget about this bozo-goofball who really is a symptom of what's missing inside of her. The ego thing..

 

Make the evening light and humourous, no 'talk' of problems or anything, just go have fun and act like teens!

[xxoo]

Hey IP....

 

Oddly, this could end up being a great thing for your previously "boring" marriage. If nothing else, it has provided you both a wake-up call and appreciation for what you have together, right?

 

Have you opened up in counseling about your own crush, and your own disengagement from the marriage before her episode with this guy? You understandably don't like reading the unflattering things that she said about you, but, if I remember correctly, you had some unflattering things to say about her and your marriage, too.

 

I'm not trying to flip this around and excuse her behavior--but I'm saying that you were pretty much in the same place, feeling the same things. You were both bored, and both craving some excitement and attention. You both took the other for granted. And now it sounds like you both have a new, healthier appreciation for each other and your marriage, and you are both ready to give it your best shot. I think there is a good chance that the best years of your marriage are ahead of you!

[InternationalPlayboy]

Hey IP....

 

Oddly, this could end up being a great thing for your previously "boring" marriage. If nothing else, it has provided you both a wake-up call and appreciation for what you have together, right?

 

Have you opened up in counseling about your own crush, and your own disengagement from the marriage before her episode with this guy? You understandably don't like reading the unflattering things that she said about you, but, if I remember correctly, you had some unflattering things to say about her and your marriage, too.

 

I'm not trying to flip this around and excuse her behavior--but I'm saying that you were pretty much in the same place, feeling the same things. You were both bored, and both craving some excitement and attention. You both took the other for granted. And now it sounds like you both have a new, healthier appreciation for each other and your marriage, and you are both ready to give it your best shot. I think there is a good chance that the best years of your marriage are ahead of you!

 

It has improved things - or at least provided more passion. Which is good and bad - the arguments cut deeper to the bone now and the sex is more frequent and better in some ways.

 

I've told the counselor (in our private session) about my crush. She said that's important to note and tied it to other things going on my marriage. Given the situation, she said it's no surprise I developed a crush. The counselor asked to hold off discussing my crush in couples session for the time being. She said my wife needs to work through some things individually first. And in couples session we haven't really discussed my wife's situation much either. Without getting into details, there were things going on between the two of us we were not totally conscious of. It's all a learning experience.

 

Again, the dilemma or what upset me about my wife's actions is she didn't stop herself. At least I had the good sense to not act upon my urges. - which is what's so confusing: My wife has always been the wise, balanced, reasoned person in our relationship not me. Truly worlds turned upside down.

 

But I've made some peace with my wife and myself. I hope she has done the same with me. The sleepless weeks that immediately followed the mess have mostly ended.

 

What's really eating me now is anger at the OM. Like he's the only one still standing after this mess. And this boiling in my stomach to act now and act quickly doesn't want to go away. I've not shared this with my wife, yet. To some degree, she feels as though we've beaten this horse to death and dissected it already. And I kind of agree. But still revenge, testosterone or my caveman mentality is screaming for action.

 

We'll see. I've shown an ungodly amount of restraint so far toward him. Restraint I never knew I had.

 

Thanks for your input!

[Stung]

It has improved things - or at least provided more passion. Which is good and bad - the arguments cut deeper to the bone now and the sex is more frequent and better in some ways.

 

I've told the counselor (in our private session) about my crush. She said that's important to note and tied it to other things going on my marriage. Given the situation, she said it's no surprise I developed a crush. The counselor asked to hold off discussing my crush in couples session for the time being. She said my wife needs to work through some things individually first. And in couples session we haven't really discussed my wife's situation much either. Without getting into details, there were things going on between the two of us we were not totally conscious of. It's all a learning experience.

 

Again, the dilemma or what upset me about my wife's actions is she didn't stop herself. At least I had the good sense to not act upon my urges. - which is what's so confusing: My wife has always been the wise, balanced, reasoned person in our relationship not me. Truly worlds turned upside down.

But I've made some peace with my wife and myself. I hope she has done the same with me. The sleepless weeks that immediately followed the mess have mostly ended.

 

What's really eating me now is anger at the OM. Like he's the only one still standing after this mess. And this boiling in my stomach to act now and act quickly doesn't want to go away. I've not shared this with my wife, yet. To some degree, she feels as though we've beaten this horse to death and dissected it already. And I kind of agree. But still revenge, testosterone or my caveman mentality is screaming for action.

 

We'll see. I've shown an ungodly amount of restraint so far toward him. Restraint I never knew I had.

 

Thanks for your input!

 

I understand that your wife crossed some lines with this guy, and I have only skimmed the posts since the OP so perhaps I have missed something crucial. And I absolutely do not believe that two wrongs make a right, and I'm very glad to hear that you two are in counseling. But honestly, I remember your past threads about your neighbor, and I think your wife is being a little shortchanged here. I have seen her described as deprioritizing your marriage by wearing sweats in her own house, and I have seen you depict your three-year crush as entirely unacted upon. Physically, I believe that is true. But I also recall your admitting to a few awkward moments of silence where you and the fantasized-about neighbor, your 'friend', kind of leaned into each other, danced around a few subject, things unsaid heavy in the air. I remember thinking that you were kidding yourself when you suggested that you had not crossed any emotional lines, and also pointing out that your disappointment about your wife's little foibles (not having sophisticated enough taste in music, wearing sweats) was likely fueled by your fantasy about your tall, beautiful neighbor. Honestly, three years of lusting after a nearby woman you spent a lot of time with, exchanging letters and confidences with her, fantasizing the 'what ifs' if you had married her instead of your wife, to the point where you turned a critical eye on your own 'boring' marriage and wife--I really wonder how much positive energy was robbed from your marriage by this, and how much your wife felt it. How 'deprioritized' do you think she felt, over the past three years? She did, at one point, ask you about your relationship with the neighbor, so obviously she did feel something.

 

Turning to another man for comfort and understanding wasn't the right thing to do. I'm not condoning it. But I don't think you're owning up fully to your part in making your marriage vulnerable, either, with all the pointing fingers about how she should have been the strong one, after you spent all this time distancing yourself.

 

Honestly, while I'm sorry that both of you had to wander off the rails a little bit, one of my first reactions was that this could be the jolt you needed to save your marriage. You have been struggling with 'grass is greener' syndrome for a few years now, it's possible you needed a bit of a kick in the butt to see that your own patch of grass is still lush and verdant.

 

I hope that you two will continue to uncover these things in your therapy and come out on the other side with a more confident union. What tests us makes us stronger.

[Distant78]

It's inaccurate to say I was thinking about cheating. Tempted? Sure, but actually committing to any real plan, it wasn't in the cards.

 

No it's not inaccurate. When you're tempted to do something you're obviously going to think about it.

 

But last time I brought up OM, that I hated his guts and will never trust him, she got upset and said "I didn't sleep with him. What more do you want me to say?" Discussing it in detail is still touchy.

 

Sorry but this is a red flag here. Why is she being so defensive? She should be completely transparent with you and answer all of your questions with no attitude. Discussing it in detail should not be "touchy."

[Windsurf66]

OP,

 

you had asked the wrong question! She might not have slept with him, but did she make out with him, did she suck him off, did she give him a handjob? You mean these are acceptable to you?!!?

 

My opinion, 70 to 80% that she has done something sexual with him based on the following observations:

 

- vibrator used for foreplay is gone. Is she there for business or for pleasure, or both

 

- she brought new sexy clothing, heels boots etc to the trip, that she has never worn for you before, and she got her hair done to look nice (for who??). Btw, a wife wearing sexy clothing for someone else, that she has never worn before for her H, is a very very common and obvious sign. Even if she has not officially started an affair, it is crystal clear thats she wanted to attract him. And shouldn't she be wearing professional attire instead of sexy clothings?

 

- you are 90% certain that they had phone sex..(how did you know btw?)

 

The other major ref flag is, they talked bad about you in the emails/chat logs, and she DID NOT stop him and did not defend you in any way. And yes, confiding her marriage troubles in another man, instead of girlfriends, is simply inviting for trouble and sending signals to the other guy. Do not believe her excuse that she is naive, upset, blah blah...

 

Lastly, should you expose to the guy's wife? The answer is YES. Not so much for revenge at this point. Its more for:

- the wife may provide some info that might be very useful to you, e.g. info that dovetail with the info you have and confirms that something is going on between your wife and the guy

- to see the reaction of your wife will she be defensive of him....the reaction of your wife will interesting and will reveal a lot

 

Finally, do not believe her when she said she did not sleep with him. ALL cheaters lie...based on the red flags of her wearing sexy clothing for him and the derogatory elements in her emails/chat logs, it is a potential affair, even if it has not started.

[InternationalPlayboy]

You now need to put on the charm and take your wife out on a date. Get dressed up, get sexy and have fun. Make her forget about this bozo-goofball who really is a symptom of what's missing inside of her. The ego thing..

 

Make the evening light and humourous, no 'talk' of problems or anything, just go have fun and act like teens!

 

I wish it were that easy. We've gone out some and had some good times since everything happened. We actually had one the best nights out on the town a couple weeks ago - it was fantastic. But there also have been times where we've gone out and there's an 800-pound gorilla in the room....Sometimes I miss our boring, dead-end marriage from before....

[InternationalPlayboy]

IP, in my opinion, what your wife and you are going through is fairly common... what the two of you choose to do now is the key. Talk, talk, talk, all you can without being obviously obsessed about it.

 

She honestly may not have realized exactly what she was doing, but there was likely something inside of her saying that it's wrong at some point (phone sex for example).

 

She wants to feel wanted, desireable, attractive. You can still give that to her in so many ways. You'll first need to move past the resentment and pain - the sack of bull**** she's been handing you. And you can likely only do that through true heartfelt communication.

 

I know it won't be easy, but you have to prioritize what your goal is first, and then take positive, genuine steps to get there.

 

This is a great place to share your thoughts and just type them out sometimes.

 

Best of luck to you in your marriage.

 

Thanks a lot. Communication is not easy sometimes. It often leads to arguments and headaches we never had before. But I'm learning (slowly) it's absolutely necessary she knows what crazy ideas go on in my mind and vice versa.