Unapologetic OWs - a threat?

[TigerCub]

Well, then, let's just say whatever the hell we feel like, right?

I thought you already did

 

Come on. You know exactly what I'm talking about. If there was NO influence, why read any posts at all?

Not enough influence for me to make decisions about my life and what I KNOW is best for me.

 

Why? do you find these posts THAT influential on you? I'm really curious now? If enough people told you to do something that you know wasn't right for you - would you do it?

[donnamaybe]

As for this "threat" notion: I've used this example before on LS.

 

I had a friend years ago who actually said to me once, "I know when I walk into the room every man looks at me and every man wants me." Pathetic, to say the least, not to mention delusional. What man would want to be with a gal who had that sort of mindset?

[donnamaybe]

I thought you already did

Nope. If I said what I REALLY wanted to say in many circumstances, I'd be in the same place as many people who've recently disappeared. NOT on LS.

 

 

Why? do you find these posts THAT influential on you?

I don't. But I'm not everyone.

I'm really curious now? If enough people told you to do something that you know wasn't right for you - would you do it?

I'm in a good place in my life, so of course not. But I am not every person who comes to LS, just as you are not. Who are you to say how EVERY person who comes to this forum looking for support is going to take every post? Some might have a very low self esteem at the moment, and could possibly take to heart something someone else said. The possibliity IS THERE.

 

Are you going to try to tell me that you know for certain that NO ONE who EVER comes to LS could POSSIBLY be influenced by another poster? Really?

[woinlove]

I can't speak to anyone else's use of BBS, but in my case it was intended to refer to a subset of BSs, not all of them by any means. As I've been consistent in all my posts in my assertion that just as all As are different, so all BSs and all APs are different and blanket assumptions can't be made across an entire category based simply on which position they occupy, I would imagine that anyone reading my posts would interpret it in that context rather than in the context of their own projections.

 

But since you asked for examples of ENTIRE GROUPS of OWs being dissed, here are a couple from this thread alone:

 

As you are aware, we have no idea how small or large a group your BBS (or ROW) are, since no one has self-identified under those labels and you've never told us who you labelling that way. One uOW used that label in a negative way, but then said she had no idea what it meant and implied she thought it was synonymous with BS - i.e. every betrayed spouse!

 

As to any negative comments you found about uOW as portrayed on this thread, let's hope this thread does not present them in their best light. I suspect that in a thread where people described themselves as uOW and treated other posters with respect, did not start out by suggesting negative traits of entire groups, and showed some compassion toward others, there would be less negativity.

[TigerCub]

Nope. If I said what I REALLY wanted to say in many circumstances, I'd be in the same place as many people who've recently disappeared. NOT on LS.

 

 

I don't. But I'm not everyone. I'm in a good place in my life, so of course not. But I am not every person who comes to LS, just as you are not. Who are you to say how EVERY person who comes to this forum looking for support is going to take every post? Some might have a very low self esteem at the moment, and could possibly take to heart something someone else said. The possibliity IS THERE.

 

Are you going to try to tell me that you know for certain that NO ONE who EVER comes to LS could POSSIBLY be influenced by another poster? Really?

So are you saying that people shouldn't give their personal views of a situation out of fear that there are vulnerable people out on a public forum?

 

People come here, knowing that its a public forum filled with many people with different opinions, they take from it what helps them. They hear different stories and learn from other people's experiences.

 

If they are so weak, suffer from such low self esteem and are so easily influenced, then I'm sure at some point someone would suggest therapy and counseling for them (and luckily because of how they are, they'll go out and do just that right away)

[donnamaybe]

So are you saying that people shouldn't give their personal views of a situation out of fear that there are vulnerable people out on a public forum?

No - they should consider the position EACH person is in and post from that standpoint. They should NOT, however, post in an effort to further THEIR personal situation.

 

People come here, knowing that its a public forum filled with many people with different opinions, they take from it what helps them. They hear different stories and learn from other people's experiences.

I'm pretty sure that's what I was trying to say, but many try to increase the numbers of their "group." NOT good.

 

If they are so weak, suffer from such low self esteem and are so easily influenced, then I'm sure at some point someone would suggest therapy and counseling for them (and luckily because of how they are, they'll go out and do just that right away)

Often times people do NOT need therapy. What they need is the support of real people who want to help them out of their self imposed prison of BS. With the dawning of the light often comes a real clarity. However, if someone is trying to cloud their vision because they want "partners in crime," for lack of a better description, that's not going to do them any good.

[TigerCub]

No - they should consider the position EACH person is in and post from that standpoint. They should NOT, however, post in an effort to further THEIR personal situation.

 

I'm pretty sure that's what I was trying to say, but many try to increase the numbers of their "group." NOT good.

 

Often times people do NOT need therapy. What they need is the support of real people who want to help them out of their self imposed prison of BS. With the dawning of the light often comes a real clarity. However, if someone is trying to cloud their vision because they want "partners in crime," for lack of a better description, that's not going to do them any good.

 

I guess I just don't understand this part:

 

why do you think that people who post something (that you may not agree with - especially with regards to affairs) are doing so just to further their agenda? What is their agenda?

 

Why do they care how many people are in affairs? If they are happy in their situations, then why do they need more recruits or "partners in crime"? That part doesn't make sense to me. Guess that's why I just don't see it that way.

[BB07]

2themoon&back said......

I am sensitive and when I have dared to go to other forums, someone always seems to point out that I'm an OW (if I don't do that 1st), so my advice or support should not be taken seriously or held of value because my morals are perceived loose. So I just try to stick to my own kind “per say”.

I've had this happen to me also, more than once. For a long time I stayed away from the other forums but as I grew more comfortable I did occasionally post there but I've had my advice discounted because of my former status and sometimes it was discounted in quite a nasty way. I once received a pm telling me how I'd spread my legs for anything.

 

This does not mean I harbor any ill feelings towards anyone on any other forums; I just want those that need help or support to get it without getting the finger pointing at the OW, when I offer it.

 

I know I have learned a lot from some of the BS's here and relate to a lot of them. I like that part, it helps me heal and I hope I give something back every now and then.

 

The majority of the BS's here are amazing in their knowledge and their compassion and understanding. Go read over at SI and it's a different world over there.

[donnamaybe]

I guess I just don't understand this part:

 

why do you think that people who post something (that you may not agree with - especially with regards to affairs) are doing so just to further their agenda? What is their agenda?

 

Why do they care how many people are in affairs? If they are happy in their situations, then why do they need more recruits or "partners in crime"? That part doesn't make sense to me. Guess that's why I just don't see it that way.

I don't understand it either, but it is what it is. You must have missed a few threads. Perhaps some were completely deleted. I know a few were that would speak to this very issue. Also, some posts are removed that would support this, and I'm just not going to go about LS finding examples. I've seen them, and I know others have.

[donnamaybe]

I once received a pm telling me how I'd spread my legs for anything.

Oh, hon, that's awful! What kind of "person" would say such a thing?!

[BB07]

 

Edit: Actually, in a weird way I can see how the OW, far from being a threat, actually serves to stabilise the marriage to a degree, it means the MM doesn't have to confront the problems he may have within his marriage. Having said that, of course an affair isn't a solution!

 

Bingo.........everyone knows how distracting an affair is. An affair enables MM to continue on without addressing anything, in fact it just creates more turmoil and confusion, well unless he is one of those who is unapologetic.

JMO......but I think the longer an affair goes on the less likely mm/mw will be to actually change anything. Affair = enabling someone to go on without making a real change in their life.

[donnamaybe]

I think the longer an affair goes on the less likely mm/mw will be to actually change anything. Affair = enabling someone to go on without making a real change in their life.

Right on the money here. It's like expecting your child to learn something when you don't set any boundaries.

[jthorne]

If they are happy in their situations, then why do they need more recruits or "partners in crime"? That part doesn't make sense to me. Guess that's why I just don't see it that way.

EXCELLENT question! If we could answer that, then maybe we could answer why when one of them leaves the OW club, say when they take a better course of action for them and leave the A, they get bashed like they are some kind of traitor. As if losing one of the Club is a threat to them.

 

Like thomas said, sounds to me like they are just a threat to themselves.

 

I, on the other hand, am posing a threat to myself in not getting my work done. So I leave the rest of you to it.

[BB07]

Oh, hon, that's awful! What kind of "person" would say such a thing?!

 

I have a pretty thick skin, but it did hurt.

 

A former BS (male). He is very aggressive with his posting style with any female who has any history of infidelity.

 

I don't mind being called out on my former OW status, that is understandable, but insults like that show the true colors of someone.

[Snowflower]

I have a pretty thick skin, but it did hurt.

 

A former BS (male). He is very aggressive with his posting style with any female who has any history of infidelity.

 

I don't mind being called out on my former OW status, that is understandable, but insults like that show the true colors of someone.

 

I hope you reported the PM to the mods! That completely crosses the line.

 

Unfortunately, aggressive BS posters make the rest of the BS look bad. I rarely post on the infidelity board anymore because it has become a tireless battle with some of the other BSs. Hopefully this will change again.

[donnamaybe]

I have a pretty thick skin, but it did hurt.

 

A former BS (male). He is very aggressive with his posting style with any female who has any history of infidelity.

 

I don't mind being called out on my former OW status, that is understandable, but insults like that show the true colors of someone.

I know exactly who you're talking about.

[donnamaybe]

EXCELLENT question! If we could answer that, then maybe we could answer why when one of them leaves the OW club, say when they take a better course of action for them and leave the A, they get bashed like they are some kind of traitor. As if losing one of the Club is a threat to them.

So you've seen it as well. I KNEW I wasn't losing my mind. Yet.

[Snowflower]

Back to the title of this thread...when I first joined LS two years ago, the OW often told a BW, particularly a BW who was getting a little "feisty," that the OW here were not the OW in their (the BWs) situation. So in other words, the BW should back off and gain some perspective.

 

At first, I thought this was very dismissive of the BW and their feelings. But now I think that is a good rule of thumb to follow here...none of us are the person who was on the other side of triangle, not really, not IRL.

 

So, no one should be worried that some anonymous LS poster is out to steal their man-because the OW/BW is not the OW/BW in anyone's situation here.

[donnamaybe]

So, no one should be worried that some anonymous LS poster is out to steal their man-because the OW/BW is not the OW/BW in anyone's situation here.

You're right - no one should be worried about it, but wouldn't this thread insinuate that SOMEONE thinks people SHOULD be worried?

[BB07]

OWoman said.........

but there are some OWs who come here as noobs, not seeking to escape from their As but seeking support from other OWs or seeking advice on some particular aspect of the A, who get blasted and bullied and treated very unkindly once it's clear that their intentions are not to go NC and repent, repent! It's on behalf of those noob OWs, and in the interests of trying to keep the OW & OM forum a place where OWs and OMs can feel safe to post, that I insist on being visible and making my stance known. Some OWs live in places where they do not feel safe discussing their R among RL friends or family, and need this online space. I feel it is important for them to know that they're not alone, and that there is nothing wrong with their position - much like gay and lesbian activists feel the need to be visible so that other gay or lesbian people can feel safe and accepting of who they are and the Rs they conduct.

 

But.........will you concede that the majority of OW's who come here are in pain because they are NOT happy with their place in the affair?

 

I tend to reach out to those kind of posters because of my experience and my stance, that doesn't make me wrong. If I can't identify with the poster on some level I usually just leave it alone, is that a bad thing?

 

Also......it's a given they each of us as individual's are going to post to what we identify with whatever that stance is, right?

[Snowflower]

You're right - no one should be worried about it, but wouldn't this thread insinuate that SOMEONE thinks people SHOULD be worried?

 

Yep, that is the insinuation by some here. And it is very important that they somehow prove it to themselves.

[donnamaybe]

Yep, that is the insinuation by some here. And it is very important that they somehow prove it to themselves.

Yep. Somehow. Yet, how many of their MM have left their marriages?

[BB07]

Well, first of all, any OW who quits their A and posts against the trouble an A can bring is promptly labeled, in a derogatory manner, a reformed OW and gets put down for their new found attitude.

 

Well I can speak to that as it happened to me.

 

Truth be told.......I'm just ME and my experiences and my stance is what it is and I make no apologies for it, but yet I'm not gonna beat someone over the head to win them over to my way of thinking.

I post when and where I think I can be helpful and try to leave those threads alone that push my buttons. Of course I'm not perfect, but my intent is good most of the time.

[BB07]

Not at all.

 

I respond to each post individually, dealing with each poster's issues as presented, whether they are BS, WS or OW/OM.

 

The juxtaposition of two extremes, as presented by my "friend" (yes, she is a real person, and yes, she is an OW) was not intended to divide every single OW into one of two camps - at least, that would not be consistent with the views I know her to espouse. I don't have a hotline into her head to know exactly what she meant! - rather, it was in a context of trying to make sense of why SOME BSs find SOME OWs so threatening, to the point of being unable to regard them with anything but hostility. THOSE SAME BSs seemed quite enamoured with the "CLOW", as my friend described it, for the reason she speculated - that those "CLOW"s elicit pity because of how sad their lives seem, while the uOWs are so busy getting on and living their lives to the fullest, that "pity" is not a response that leaps readily to mind.

 

FTR, I pity ANYONE who puts their life into storage while wringing their hands obsessively about a failed or stillborn R - whether they are a BS, an AP or a dumped teenager. Allowing ANYONE such access to your consciousness that sees your every waking thought consumed with another is not healthy, IMO - it erodes one's own centre and puts the other person there instead. It also opens up the possibility of the person - BS, AP or anyone else - falling apart should that R fail for whatever reason, because the "centre" of their lives is suddenly no longer there. That has nothing to do with being a subcategory of OW (the "CLOW") and everything to do with being a subcategory of person-in-a-R - the person who makes another the centre of their universe.

 

And if that makes me some kind of evil-made-manifest, I'll gladly wear the mantle

 

Have you considered that threatening might not be the right assumption? I would liken it to being that they find it repulsive. Repulsive brings out strong emotions. Factor in that affairs go against most people's moral code and religious beliefs and there is always dishonesty and lies or it wouldn't be an affair. Take out dishonesty and lies and you have a open relationship because no one is kept in the dark. Most of society feels this way about affairs and yes a lot of people have affairs in spite of those beliefs but still those beliefs are widely held.

[pureinheart]

Well, sorry to burst your bubble, but "threat" isn't the word I'd use to describe my feeling about the whole thing. I'd say more like contempt mixed with pity.

 

It's obvious.